51. Losing Sight of Progress

Comment #215845 by bamafreethinker on July 22, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Buckle.of.the.Belt,

Welcome from another Alabamian!

I too was a long time bible believer and went through a long de-conversion journey. I've been free for about 6 years now. I actually came out of the Christian delusion before reading any books on evolution, and RD's Blind Watchmaker put the final nails in the tomb... err... coffin. That pushed me from Deism to Atheism.

I'm sure you love listening to Rick & Bubba's babble... no?

Enjoy your new life!

Roll Tide!

52. Losing Sight of Progress

Comment #215821 by bamafreethinker on July 22, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Here's a very in-depth article on a blind cave salamander (which I discovered is also the name of a musical group)...

http://amphibiaweb.org/cgi-bin/amphib_query?query_src=aw_lists_genera_&table=amphib&where-genus=Proteus&where-species=anguinus

It states that the eyes are fully developed in early larvae and then get left behind.

53. Galaxy map hints at fractal universe

Comment #199314 by bamafreethinker on June 25, 2008 at 2:01 pm

What is the motivation/purpose of attaining the first post, hastily composing a short comment, and then stating that you have the first post in the first post?

Just curious...

Edit: Dang... I was hoping to be the first poster to comment on the first post thing...

54. New Atheists Are Not Great

Comment #145316 by bamafreethinker on March 17, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Do they get liberal christians, catholics, evangelicals, etc reading their magazine? It would seem to me that for some christians agreeing with folk like Tony Snow and DD would make them feel a bit icky.

When I was living at home, my parents got the Christianity Today magazine; I assume through the Baptist church we went to. The vast majority of evangelicals would not be happy with the fact the DD accepts evolution and probably an old earth as well. On the other hand, I've noticed that most will gladly accept any apologist, no matter how liberal they are. A church elder even used Anthony Flew on me, and Flew (as portrayed by his literary captors) is a deist at best!

55. Deadly Sins 101

Comment #143061 by bamafreethinker on March 13, 2008 at 11:57 am

Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily

But is the potential to hurt others a sin, i.e. adultery that goes undetected, or the occasional prostitute? Even if the "sin" doesn't hurt others... still wrong?

Potential harm as apposed to kinetic harm - so to speak?

56. Should Galileo's tomb be opened for DNA tests?

Comment #141985 by bamafreethinker on March 11, 2008 at 1:56 pm

Don't do unto dead bodies that which you would not want done to yours...

I think if I found the corpse of a total stranger on a deserted island and it was just me and the corpse, I would still want to protect it from the vultures. Perhaps its the human ability to put ourselves in another person's shoes (or corpse in this case) that causes this seemingly irrational respect - even in the absence of people who care for other reasons.

57. Should Galileo's tomb be opened for DNA tests?

Comment #141505 by bamafreethinker on March 10, 2008 at 2:27 pm

Why do we have respect for dead human bodies? The short answer seems to be because most of our social peers do, and I guess that is good enough for me. Is there some evolutionary reason (as elephants seem to have an emotional attachment for the remains of their relatives) or is it just leftovers from religious or tribal superstitions? This seems to be one of the areas where science has no answer... it just seems to be a universal "right" to treat a corpse with respect and a universal "wrong" to abuse one.

I'm pretty sure I want my family to donate my body to science or just burn me if science doesn't want my stuff.

58. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139788 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:48 pm

Really? For such an intelligent man, I find that comment baffling,,

Me too, but I remember a phase when I was sitting on the fence, grieving over the fact that I would not be seeing my dead grandmother or my dear nephew who died in a car accident at 18 a few months earlier. But as soon as you cross that line and realize that no matter how great the concept of heaven is, it's just wishful thinking, you drop that thinking in a second and start appreciating what we do have. I remember when I finally came to grips that there was no Santa Clause; I still had my family and the toys kept coming... that was good enough!

59. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139777 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:35 pm

Truth is liberating,

How true! I remember the day (about 6 years ago) as if it were yesterday.. I just finished reading Remsberg's 500 page "The Christ" and it hit me like a ton of bricks… It's all bullshit!!! The next few days I was on cloud nine â€" hugging my family and friends, appreciating the planet around me as was never possible before that moment.

In some ways it was like the Neo experience in the Matrix when he realized the truth was not as rosy as the lie he had been living, but it was the TRUTH!!!

60. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139768 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:23 pm

I'm just so glad I was brought up by irreligious parents...

In many ways I envy you, but I guess in some ways I'm better off for having experienced what I did. Many of the best lesson I've learned were from mistakes; mostly my own - some from others.

When it's a 2000 year long line of mistakes you don't know who to be angry with, so you just do the best with what you were handed.

61. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139758 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 1:12 pm

If someone tells me they de-converted in a matter of months or weeks - I'm skeptical. It is likely that they; 1) had serious doubts from as far back as childhood, or 2) they were not heavily indoctinated in the first place. For me, it took about 3 years of consistant study.

The fear of hell is real - even if hell itself is not and this has an extremely strong influence on even being open to questions.

I agree that the bible is the first place to start, however.

62. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139734 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 12:52 pm

.Amazing - if it was my family, we'd still be hammer and tongs at Genesis. Too mnay inconsistencies in the first few words for it to make any meaningful sense.

Ah, but if you were brought up, like me, to put the cart before the horse, i.e. the bible IS god's word, so no matter what "seems" wrong with it: it's your inability to understand it. Seems too simple to work but, unfortunately, it does

I have to be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking, "If eveeryone was just as bright, witty, and rational as me, there would be no religion."

63. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139724 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 12:40 pm

The truth isn't that terrible. It is miraculous and wonderful. It is the stubbornness and ignorance that causes the unhappiness.

The unhappiness comes from the way other people react to your beliefs. It may be similar to the way a gay person feels to come out. It feels great to be honest with one's self, but the way other people react is what makes things miserable.

My parents are just too old (75 and 79) to think about things like this and I don't think their heart could handle knowing that I'm not a believer. I stay in the closet to protect them from the stress I suppose.

64. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139693 by bamafreethinker on March 6, 2008 at 12:04 pm

This describes pretty well what it's like for me as well. I'm stuck in the middle of a YEC family and social environment and it can get really frustrating at times. I mostly just keep my mouth shut. My children are the most difficult part of the equation, as my wife is a "weak" YEC. She is opening more and more to the idea of evolution the more we watch the Discovery Channel; and as our 12 year old son explains it to her!

I very much enjoyed this article.

65. Survey shows Non-Religious Outnumber Those of Every Single Faith (But One)

Comment #137763 by bamafreethinker on March 3, 2008 at 12:54 pm

I'll have to agree that shifting beliefs within Christianity is insignificant. I have witnessed myself that the lines between different denominations have really softened over the past twenty years. I believe this is caused by the general weakening of fundamentalism. I think most parents are just happy if their kids stay in church, any church, and aren't so picky about what name is on the front.

This is also why we are creeping toward a theocracy. In the recent past, different sects were too divided to organize a huge effort, now that the lines are blurred (perhaps some by 9/11), there are many, many more people behind the movement. Mitt Romney would not have even stood a chance a few decades ago â€" no Baptist would ever think of voting for a Mormon â€" now many seem happy that he's simply not an atheist!

66. Survey shows Non-Religious Outnumber Those of Every Single Faith (But One)

Comment #137749 by bamafreethinker on March 3, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Sadly, I fear that a big portion of the "unaffiliated" people believe in god, they just don't go to church. I've heard of lot of folks say, when they are confronted by an evangelical "I know, I know… I need to get in church, I am going to go soon." Buy, maybe they're just saying that to shut the preacher up.

On the other hand, one of my best friends is an atheist at heart, but because of his family situation, everyone else in his life thinks he's a firm believer. Heck, I even go to a semi-fundamentalist church on Sunday morning with my family (my wife was a fundamentalist when I became an atheist about six years ago, but her fundamentalism is fading slowly), but I don't pretend to play along.

Of course living where I do, I hear plenty of fundie-bull-shit! My brother is a highly active, t-shirt-wearing, young-earth creationist and he has no idea I'm an atheist. He gave my kids a young-earth propaganda children's book that depicted humans living with dinosaurs, which I promptly threw away. I don't think my mother or brother could handle it. We get some sort of propaganda almost every birthday or x-mas.

I wish some of you guys who live in more secular parts of the world could come and visit the good old bible belt for a while. It can really turn your stomach sometimes! Our governor instituted an official day of prayer to help end a painful drought here… a small corner of the state got about a half inch, but several people were killed by a tornado. Hmmm.... God can answer prayer three ways, yes, no, wait... or perhaps HELL NO… LEAVE ME THE F#@! ALONE!!! ...but so can the FSM!

Sorry for the rant, this site is sometimes my only source of sanity!

67. Darwin's dangerous idea

Comment #137563 by bamafreethinker on March 3, 2008 at 6:57 am

I'm happy to report that my son is 12 and he understands/accepts evolution. The best thing about this is that he mostly learned about it at school (with a little help from PBS, the Discovery Channel, and me of course). I asked him about the age of the earth and evolution a year ago and he understands it pretty well. I also asked if his science teacher (a young female) gave any "caveats" to the theory to make room for creationism and she did not. And this is in the middle of one of the most fundamentalist areas of the Bible Belt! (Note: we do live near the technologically advanced and affluent pocket of Huntsville, AL; one of the homes of NASA, the Space and Rocket Museum, and Space Camp).

I think that if we keep winning the battles (i.e. Dover) to keep creationism out of schools, then we will gradually win the war. I have the suspicion that this surge of the fundamentalists over the past few decades is a last gasp. I can imagine that the slave owners in the US probably had a fervent surge near the end too.

68. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #136200 by bamafreethinker on February 29, 2008 at 2:13 pm

Could "militia", as it was used in the bill of rights, be referring more to an armed citizenry to defend against outside threats as the need arose? An example would be during the revolutionary war where many citizens were not "official" US soldiers, but would take up arms as needed to defend the country from attack? I need to freshen up on my history... this is an interesting topic.

69. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #135987 by bamafreethinker on February 29, 2008 at 11:56 am

You know... I kinda see the point about how guns being such efficient killing machines. Let's say a husband walks in on his wife going at it with another guy. If he happens to have a loaded gun in the other room, in the heat of passion, he may loose control of his senses and shoot the guy and perhaps his wife, whereas if he only had a Louisville Slugger, or similar blunt instrument available, he may start beating the ever-living-f@#!! out of them, but then realize that he doesn't want to go to jail for such a shallow pair, and stop short of killing them. I could see where the elimination of readily available, super-effective killing tools would reduce such losses of life.

On the other hand, we simply don't know what the future holds for our world, so perhaps the somewhat minimal fringe killings are an acceptable price to pay to insure that we have the ability to protect ourselves from who-know-what.

I don't think that comparing automobiles (or roller coasters, or ATV's or horses, or cigarettes, or ...) to guns is exactly fair, but we could eliminate hundred of deaths by eliminating them too, but at what cost?

We could also eliminate police fatalities by eliminating the police force, but at what cost?

I say we can't cut off our horns until we know we can trust the farmer...

70. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #135945 by bamafreethinker on February 29, 2008 at 11:16 am

I suspect in most of western Europe, most people are frightened of guns. I know I start to physically shake in the presence of them, even in museums.

I've been to gun & knife shows where there were thousands of guns from full-auto assault weapons to 200 year old shotguns with thousands of rounds of ammo laying around on every table (along with a few thousand very sinister-looking knives and swords). There may have been a police officer at the main entrance checking the guns entering the show, which received a nylon cable-tie that prevented the action from working, but that is pretty much it as far as security. Of course many patrons had permits to carry concealed handguns, so there were plenty of loaded weapons there. My ten year old son and 13 year old daughter were tagging along as well - they were brought up to respect (not fear) guns and they were taught how to handle guns safely.

I guess it all boils down to having faith in the general population that gives us enough peace-of-mind to not be afraid in such situations. Besides, a would-be criminal knows full well that if he tries to pull a stupid stunt, he would be lying on the floor with a few dozen holes in him before he could say "John Wayne".

If the US decided that it would try to confiscate guns, who do you think would be giving up their guns? Certainly not the criminals.

I do agree that guns provide an effective tool for killing people and that is unfortunate, but taking guns away from the innocent and leaving them in the hands of evil-doers accomplishes nothing. Taking the actions necessary to eliminate as much as possible the need/desire to commit gun-related crime, however, is the only way to insure the safety of the innocent, IMO.

I would guess that a person with an irrational fear of guns would also feel that religion is a handy thing to keep around to help control morality? Would such a person suppose that if the entire Japanese population woke up tomorrow with a shiny new gun on their bedside table, they would suddenly start killing one another? I doubt it.

It seems to me that it's almost all about society and almost nothing about guns.

71. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #135758 by bamafreethinker on February 29, 2008 at 8:57 am

I live in Detroit and own no guns!

And the fact that many of your neighbors probably do own guns, coupled with the fact that the would-be criminal doesn't know which household is the gun-toting kind, you may be safer because of the right to bear arms - even though you choose not to do so.

I agree that the intent of the founding fathers matters a great deal and the fact that they were rich slave owners is irrelevant. It's sad in a way, but they were more intelligent/educated/enlightened than the average American is, even 200 years later. And since the constitution is what we've agreed to use as a backbone for our legal system, other documents that help shed light on the way they perceived how our nation should be help us interpret the constitution and, in some cases, battle with liars and thieves.

72. US Treaty with Tripoli

Comment #135612 by bamafreethinker on February 29, 2008 at 6:24 am

What's that got to do with today. It's dumbass logic like that that keeps gun manufacturers in business, when the 2nd amendment was clearly designed for a largely empty continent full of hostile forces, not today's America.

One cow says to the other "Ha, we don't need sharp claws or quick legs to defend ourselves form the wolves, we have the farmer. We can trust him to look out for our safety and protect us from those who wish to harm us. You see... he even carries us in this nice covered trailer instead of making us walk. Heck, I'm glad the farmer cuts off our horns, those things are good for nothing any more. Hey where are we going anyway?"

Other cow says, "A place called the butcher shop or something like that I think... dumbass!"

You may trust your government now to protect you and feel perfectly safe without a gun, but things can change. And never forget the old cliche, "If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns".

73. Moral thinking

Comment #131340 by bamafreethinker on February 22, 2008 at 9:22 am

The free time factor does seem to make logical sense with liberalism. If we have plenty of time and money, and can sit around and think about how the less-than-fortunate people are struggling, then we may tend to feel sorry for them and want to do something to help. If you are struggling just to feed your family and get by, then you tend to think less about how everyone else is doing and focus on improving your own situation.

I can imagine a time in the future when we're just about out of oil and the survival of our society depends on securing the last oil reserves. How many present-day liberals would be behind a war if it promised them a few more years of life as they know it â€" even at the expense of other people's freedom or lives? If the world deteriorates into a "Road Warrior" type of society, how many people will be worrying about the spotted owl or if some family may be circumcising their kids? I may be wrong here and I'm not suggesting that excess time/money is the cause for liberalism, but that it can help provide an environment for it.

I am personally torn many times trying to decide which way is the right way to think, so I'm definitely not a clearly defined liberal or conservative. Just a guy with an open mind I guess.

74. Atheists An Increasingly Outspoken Minority

Comment #130222 by bamafreethinker on February 20, 2008 at 7:20 am

I've lived 35 years as a Christian, and 7 as an atheist (that still goes to church for social and relationship/family reasons) and I can assure everyone that believers don't really turn to god in times of need. They do just like atheists â€" they turn to their family and friends and professionals - they read self-help books, they work hard and they rely on others. They may say they depend/turn to god but it's all lip service. Of course praying can be a good self-help thing as well because you are really giving yourself a good talking to. As an atheist I sometimes talk to myself inwardly and say… you can do this, you can figure this out, or whatever.

Also: At least three of my close friends don't believe in god either, but they are still completely in the closet â€" in other words they still lead Sunday school classes, lead public prayers, take sacrament, etc., so the figures are probably higher than even the liberal estimates.

And I agree with an earlier post. It's not safe to come out in Alabama… yet!

75. Cal scientist reflects on Darwin's genius

Comment #125954 by bamafreethinker on February 12, 2008 at 10:23 am

150 years… still plenty of mysteries, yet not one shred of evidence that opposes evolution... beautiful!!!

76. What should a scientist think about religion?

Comment #118366 by bamafreethinker on January 30, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Do you think that children raised by certain types of atheist are vulnerable to adopt a religion later? I guess it would depend on how that atheism was presented – whether with the brute force of a dictator or with the openness and of a loving mentor-parent. I remember reading a long time ago that Madeline Murray-O'Hare's son became a Christian as a young adult (not sure about that one). I suppose that any responsible atheist would teach their children to use reason to question all kinds of things.

I've read that Christianity is also spreading wildly in Russia and China. Perhaps when religion falls on the ears of the average laymen, who perhaps has not been exposed to religion OR to critical thinking methods, they are fertile ground. Perhaps it would go in cycles –after a society recoils from religion for a period, and the founders of freethought (along with their zeal for rationality) fade into the past, the generations that follow, who inherited their lack of belief (instead of obtaining it for themselves) are more vulnerable to fall for religion or some other type of irrational beliefs.

77. What should a scientist think about religion?

Comment #118273 by bamafreethinker on January 30, 2008 at 2:29 pm

I agree with comment #118212 by clunkclickeverytrip. Those religious colored glasses are probably worn by the vast majority of theistic scientists in the world.

I can see how a scientist may choose not to rule out some sort of force outside of science's reach, but how they can then come to the conclusion that this "god" is his/her particular version of God is beyond me. When I was a theist, science played a small role in my de-conversion, but studying the bible is what really did the trick for me. It helped me first to leave Yahweh and settle for Thomas Jefferson's deism – that opened my mind enough to at least consider evolution with an open mind and tah-dah – here I am!

I therefore think that trying to convince a theist using science will seldom get you anywhere. Everything gets processed by a super-powerful filtering device and all they hear is blah-blah-blah!

I used to think backwards when I looked at anything. I first assumed that Yahweh existed and that the bible came from him - so no matter how stupid the bible sounded to my rational mind, I refused to believe that it really was stupid – instead I just didn't understand it or that it would all make sense when I died and met God face-to-face. Then, one day, I gathered enough courage to read the bible one more time with the notion that maybe, just maybe it could possibly not be from god – wow… what a difference!

Theistic scientists seem to be doing the same thing. They are convinced by faith that their god exists so they find a way to twist their minds around anything their research throws at them – even if it includes pushing god back into smaller and smaller gaps.

78. What should a scientist think about religion?

Comment #118137 by bamafreethinker on January 30, 2008 at 11:53 am

Those of us who were once believers and who cautiously and painstakingly studied and freed ourselves from our religion; give believers an extra measure of stress because they know we aren't following some blind dogma of unbelief.

If I had been brought up being taught "There is no god, there is no god!" without being exposed to the reasons behind that belief, then I would be no less guilty of holding prepositions on faith (in my programmer) than the average religious person. I think many religious folks like to imagine that we're running on faith – just like them – but it's not the case with most of us. Sure, science can have its dogmatic hijackers, but that's not really science is it? (ID comes to mind when I think of science being hijacked).

Great article!

79. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117061 by bamafreethinker on January 28, 2008 at 7:13 am

Dillusionless...

Bull-shitless...

Catmatist (opposite of dogmatist)

Seriously though, FREETHINKER is one of my all-time favs. It has no negatives built in and dosne't seem to offend. Of course it stops a little short of atheism, but most people make the connection.

"In praise of the most high Bull-shitlessness!!!"

80. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117059 by bamafreethinker on January 28, 2008 at 7:02 am

What about anti-irrationalists?

I am dogmatically opposed to dogmatism!!!

81. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117046 by bamafreethinker on January 28, 2008 at 6:44 am

"Belief" is something we hold to be the truth or the way things are, and there are essentially two ways we arrive at a particular belief. Plan A; by personal, first hand experience and investigation (which can still be flawed) or Plan B; through another person (authority). We can certainly obtain good beliefs through authority, but there's no guaranty of it. Obviously we have to depend on authorities for many things (doctors, mechanics, historians, etc.), but these authorities arrived at their conclusions through Plan A, so we can have a higher level "faith" or trust in those authorities. Religion is basically putting faith or trust in authorities who used plan B and have depended on plan B for generations and the final authority turns out to be someone who claims to have received his authority through some supernatural revelation - an entire system of belief based on a vision, if you will. Just think of all the destruction that has been a direct result of millions of people submitting their brains (beliefs) to the whims and hunches of madmen.

82. The real danger in Darwin is not evolution, but racism

Comment #115611 by bamafreethinker on January 24, 2008 at 12:05 pm

I agree that we have no right to be proud of something we had nothing to do with – the color of our skin, eyes, etc. But a person can take steps to look his/her best and perhaps justifiably have pride in that. Brad Pitt is about 42, so if he had not taken care of himself he could be a fat slob by now with rotten teeth, diabetes, and he could have un-kept hair and look like death (Remember Marlon Brando?). But he has invested time and effort to keep himself healthy and fit and looking his best. The fact that he, by the luck of the draw, inherited a nice set of genes is simply by chance.

It's so hard to resist the unjustified kind of pride and it starts in pre-school when those cruel little farts start saying "I'm taller than you are" or "I can run faster than you". It all sickening, but seem to be human nature. My 15 year old daughter is tiny and she constantly has to listen to other parents remind her of how much bigger their much younger child is than she is. My wife and I are tempted to say "Oh how proud you must be of her for growing so fast!" "She must have really worked hard and studied in Growing 101".

Pride can really get us in trouble.

83. The real danger in Darwin is not evolution, but racism

Comment #115521 by bamafreethinker on January 24, 2008 at 9:28 am

On the rise and fall of the tides…

"Since the Earth spins on its own axis as it revolves around the sun, there are times when a particular part of the Earth (Italy, say) is moving in the same direction as the entire Earth in its orbit. Twelve hours later, Italy is moving in the opposite direction than the Earth as a whole, since it has spun around to the other side. In another twelve hours, Italy is back where it started, and the Earth's spin again carries it in the same direction that the Earth moves as it orbits the sun".

-Galileo

Here's a fine example of one the sharpest human minds ever, getting one part of one of his amazing theories wrong. Does this mean that when we teach about tidal shifts we should keep this in the science books? Thank goodness, with science, we can keep the things that get reinforced by more research, and discard the stuff that falls short.

And should we keep alchemy in the science books so we can keep the Archimedes principle?

Perhaps since this guy is religious he tends to see things in a dogmatic way. RD is the leading proponent of Darwin, but I've heard him point out the shortcomings of his works many times.

What the author really seems to be saying is that we need to hide the truth of evolution from the masses or they will become racist Nazi pigs - equivalent to George Washington stating that the colonial layman needed religion (even if he didn't). Very arrogant, but I must admit I've felt the same thing sometimes. But that's what secular law is for – to protect us from the idiots, and the idiots from themselves.

We must thank him for being so wise to protect us from Darwin.

Bama

84. Top 10 Reasons to Believe Logic Over Religion

Comment #114667 by bamafreethinker on January 22, 2008 at 2:30 pm

I don't think this guy thought he was constructing a bullet-proof argument here. As RD himself has pointed out many times – comedy is a good way to raise consciousness sometimes without seeming too snobby. Sure, it's not the funniest thing I've read by a long shot, but it has its moments. If you were reading the thing the whole time looking for flaws in his reasoning, perhaps you were not seeing the forest for the trees. George Carlin's piece where he started praying to Joe Pesci or the whole FSM theorem are completely unreasonable, but they do make us think and laugh - both of which are good for us! Of course comedy is as subjective as a favorite color and maybe this is too shallow for average RD fan – but not everyone is average… I would like to thank Josh for putting this on and I would like to thank everyone for commenting – even if you didn't like it. Free speech and open forums rule!

I wish we had a good candidate for president. Does anyone remember Ross Perot? I don't remember a lot about his policies (I was a teenager) but I do remember he was not a politic – he said what he thought and didn't beat around the bush or cater to specific groups. He probably would have won if he hadn't have dropped out and then jumped back in at the last minute – shame.

85. Top 10 Reasons to Believe Logic Over Religion

Comment #114510 by bamafreethinker on January 22, 2008 at 10:44 am

Free Will:

We must remember that, according to the New Testament, free will no longer entails resisting evil or choosing to do good or bad. Our actions towards our fellow beings are no longer judged – we are instead judged by our thoughts (whether we believe in the story of Jesus or not). It's whether we can wrap our little heads around a 2000 year old myth without anything to back it up accept hearsay and wishful thinking. The Old Testament was about free will. God said, "Do this, don't do that" and he judged you on how well you could follow his rules.

Eve's free will was not about how she thought. It apparently didn't make God angry that she didn't believe what he said about the apple. What mattered then was that she broke a strict command. Apparently she could have doubted god and believed the serpent for eternity and god would have been okay with that – but once she took the apple it was over. Her action reflected her beliefs – but it was the action that got her in trouble. Now it's the belief that sends us to hell… sad.

This new system not only condemns the vast majority of the human population that has existed for the past 2000 years but most of the current population as well. Actually a religion that merits good deeds and punishes bad ones (even if it's all make-believe) is far better that one based on how we think or believe. What we believe has little to do with how good a person we are – it's more how we are programmed as children and the information we are exposed to – either by choice or otherwise.


BTW – I loved this article!!!

Bama

86. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #100801 by bamafreethinker on December 19, 2007 at 10:51 am

I would also like to defend his comment on raising his kids Catholic. I've been a (closet) non-believer for about 5 years now and I am still searching for the perfect time/way to tell my kids, but my wife is a somewhat liberal (for the southern US anyway) Christian. And although I cringe every time I hear hell preached at our church, my wife and I have both decided to privately teach out kids to not worry about hell at all. Since my wife believes, it scares the hell (pardon) out of her to think about our kids missing the free ride to heaven – much more than it scares me for them to be taught the somewhat watered-down version of Christianity that our church promotes. Sure I could secretly pull my kids to the side and tell them it's all bunk, but I respect what if would do to my wife because she believes. The pain it would cause her is not worth it (at this point). The good news is that I see my wife's worldview becoming more and more secular and I will encourage her to study on her own. After all you can't force a believer to think a certain way – it's like spitting in the wind. The emotional stress that I would place on my kids if I told them is not something I will take lightly. It's very complicated and there's simply no right or wrong answer to it. It not like mommy believes Pepsi tastes best – daddy thinks Coke is better. There a lot of emotional baggage that goes with religion.

87. The Pagan Christ

Comment #95045 by bamafreethinker on December 7, 2007 at 8:18 am

For a very thorough (and free) examination of all of the contemporary historians of the first century – it's hard to beat John Remsberg's almost 100 year old book - The Christ. A link to it is here: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/rmsbrg00.htm

This is the one book that absolutely ripped faith from its already weakening hold on me. I remember finishing the last sentence in this exhaustive criticism of Christianity and feeling the weight of over 30 years of doubt worry, and fearful study being lifted off of me and an amazing change in my perspective on life, love and the world around me. It's a little out-dated, but it's hard to find anything like it. And did I mention it's free?

Remsberg spends an entire chapter on the almost certainly erroneous reference to Jesus in Josephus here: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/rmsbrg02.htm

88. Science can answer how questions but only religion can answer why questions

Comment #81870 by bamafreethinker on October 25, 2007 at 10:23 am

This is a great little article dealing with the meaning of life. I read it every now and then for inspiration.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/augustine1.html

89. American kids, dumber than dirt: Warning: The next generation might just be the biggest pile of idiots in U.S. history

Comment #81781 by bamafreethinker on October 25, 2007 at 7:07 am

Wow, what a powerful article for me (a bible-belt American with two kids, 15 & 11). My 11 year old son was showing me his science book and he was studying plate tectonics, so I decided to ask him what his teacher said about tectonics and evolution and the ancient age of the earth and so on. Much to my surprise she did teach all of the above as facts and did not seem to do any "coaching" on the side. My 15 year old daughter is studying biology and her teacher is hard on them (almost too hard), but I am glad he's at least trying to teach them something. I do live in the wealthiest and most affluent part of Alabama (Huntsville – one of the cornerstones of the space program) so maybe I am fortunate in that respect. I agree with most of the points raised in this article. America really needs to shape up in the education department. I personally think it's time we, as parents, start being tougher on out kids as well. It takes courage and some foresight to deny kids what they want to do now for what will help them the rest of their lives and it is easy to be lazy and let the TV or a video game baby-sit for us. I think that my generation is the first truly lazy one (I'm 41) and that is a cycle I want to try and break.

90. Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn

Comment #78967 by bamafreethinker on October 15, 2007 at 2:33 pm

Oh yeah… I have in-laws (whom I respect and love very much, BTW) in India right now preaching Jesus. I would bet my last dollar that they are using the example of this controversy to show the people there how silly the Hindu belief is – any takers?

91. Report on Hindu god Ram withdrawn

Comment #78964 by bamafreethinker on October 15, 2007 at 2:28 pm

I'm sure millions of Christians are laughing at how silly those poor ignorant bastards are, but if someone was going to bull-doze a site in the holy land that Jesus supposedly walked on or touched or swam in – they would shit a brick!

92. A Revelation

Comment #78365 by bamafreethinker on October 12, 2007 at 2:19 pm

I think that people like Robertson, Falwell, and Haggard, et al, have hijacked the long train called Christianity and the moderates and even some liberals are content to remain calm and wait for the train to start running out of fuel to get off. Thank goodness the train has been slowing down of late – partially because of stupid remarks by some of the radicals and partially from the pens of RD, CH, SH and the like. Most moderates may never openly rebel against the radicals (they can't because they protected by the cloak of "faith"), but they can quit supplying the coal that the charismatic leaders need to keep it going. I do see a change in the zeitgeist, even in Alabama, but you can bet we will be the last ones off the train! We are the highest on the poverty scale and the lowest on the education scale (except for Mississippi of course) so we will be behind the curve - just like we were with racism. But hey, once we come through it we'll still have our southern hospitality and some of the most gorgeous landscapes in North America. They don't call it "Alabama the Beautiful" for nothing!

Speaking as someone who has not studied the time periods being discussed here, I would say from a layman's perspective that the church has always been against any and all science that does not compliment the current doctrine and for any part of it that agrees. Religious people are happy to grab hold of any so called "scientists" like Lennox – it gives them the satisfaction that smart people are on their side too. We all tend to cherry pick when it comes to these things.

93. A Revelation

Comment #78305 by bamafreethinker on October 12, 2007 at 11:50 am

To better understand how we Americans define a professor – please see Gilligan's Island re-runs… : )

94. A Revelation

Comment #78241 by bamafreethinker on October 12, 2007 at 8:32 am

Living in the south (Alabama) is different I suppose. People are friendly and warm on average and you really wouldn't know that most people are fundamentalists unless you really pull it out of them. Most people just live out their lives and pretty much function day-to-day as if there was no god. I honestly believe that most people aren't really fundamentalists and instead they; a. enjoy the social benefits that come church-going, b. don't want to be an outcast, and c. go to church just in case it is real so they can avoid going to hell. A few years ago, when I traveled over the central and northern parts of the nation I found that the south has no monopoly on stupid Americans and there is plenty of closed-minded ignorance everywhere. Don't get me wrong there is a minority of people I know that seem to structure their lives around their religion, but they generally mind their own business. People may profess an unwavering faith, but their actions prove them to be paying lip-service – to some extent at least. I have worked at a company of about 600 for almost three years now and so far, I have not been asked one time about my beliefs or heard anyone talking religion at the water cooler. I think that faith is slowly dying in the south, but church-going is a little behind the curve. Hell, I even go to church because my family does and some of my best friends are Christians – hell… all of my friends are "Christians"… by title at least!

95. A Face-Off Over Faith

Comment #75616 by bamafreethinker on October 3, 2007 at 6:26 am

Fixed Point Foundation is planning to release a DVD of the debate about 50 days from now. You can listen live to the debate here: http://www.mbn.org/GenMoody/default.asp?SectionID=AE310CD85BC742CD83662DB54DC2F486

You can also listen live to Rick and Bubba interview RD at 10:00 AM eastern time here: mms://72.236.125.114/wrtt

Good luck to RD!

96. Root and Branch

Comment #73532 by bamafreethinker on September 25, 2007 at 7:53 am

gcdavis -

However I sometimes feel that "the debate" can get too complicated, it is not between Darwin and religion or even science and religion, it is between common sense and religion. I came to the conclusion that there was no god before I knew anything of science and I still know precious little. It just didn't stack up when I began to think about it.

I agree to a point. My de-conversion happened without the aid of science as well. I first rejected the bible on its internal flaws - with a little help from Remsberg* and Paine. I assumed that Christianity simply had the wrong God. I didn't understand evolution very well at all at this point, but I knew that Genesis was wrong, so I no longer had a squabble with evolution. It depends on how you look at it, but I say that without religion there really is no argument as far as I can see.

I eventually read RD's books, but by that time – he was preaching to the choir (or at least working with an open mind)! Had I read RD before I rejected Christianity I would have had a problem with him, I'm sure.

If you haven't read Remsberg's The Christ (1909), an exhaustively comprehensive dissection and thrashing of Christianity, it is available free online here: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/rmsbrg00.htm

97. State Senator Ernie Chambers Sues God

Comment #71307 by bamafreethinker on September 18, 2007 at 11:14 am

Yorker,

Oh, it's pretty fun sometimes (and sometime depressing). I even go to bible studies in small groups and fall right in there with everyone. I was a fairly well-studied Christian for most of my life (led classes/prayers etc.), so I know more about the bible and theology than the average churchgoer. I can generally shed some light on many conversations, partially because I do not have to twist my mind around some stark contradictions and try to make sense of them. For example; Sunday night we were trying to solve how being saved by "grace" (through believing/faith) can be rectified with Jesus' commands to do this and don't do that. It sometime difficult to watch friends and family members squirm as they try to figure out just how to avoid eternal damnation when it is in no way clear in the bible how to do so. That very subject is what motivated me to study the bible in-depth because of conflicting ideas about which (mine or my wife's) side of my family was going to hell! Of course an open-minded, in-depth study of the bible generally leads one to either atheism or to a much more liberal form of religion than when you started : ) Our church sings a cappella and is good at it, and I do enjoy the singing (after ignoring the lyrics of course). Some of the songs are really pretty good if you substitute the word "nature" in all the places where god is used.

98. State Senator Ernie Chambers Sues God

Comment #71248 by bamafreethinker on September 18, 2007 at 7:20 am

I am reminded of the movie, Miracle on 34th Street, where they had the old man on trail to determine if he was really Santa Claus. The judge knew, the lawyers knew, everyone knew that there was no such thing as Santa, but nobody wanted to be the one to say so in public - in front of the kids! The old judge was just about ready to break the news until he looked at his wife (who was giving him quite a look) holding his kid (with those sad puppy dog eyes) and he couldn't do it.

Perhaps the plaintiff will first have to prove that God exists, or does the court assume that already? If you ask me, this puts the theists between a rock and a hard place. They can't say that God isn't real, but…

I've been a non-believer for about six years now, but I still go to church every Sunday with my family (I am somewhat in the closet still – but I do not participate in the service in any way). It does upset me sometimes to listen to the things people believe, but I am becoming more and more convinced that most of the Christian I know really don't believe most of the crap they say they do. I can tell that my wife is beginning to change – not so much in what she says, but in what she doesn't say. I can tell that her heart just isn't (as) in it any more. I think most of the poor folks are just afraid of hell so they go through the motions.

99. Childhood Origins of Adult Resistance to Science

Comment #70171 by bamafreethinker on September 14, 2007 at 8:38 am

oxytocin,

I haven't thought much about the structure and terminology of scientific research since the ninth grade (about 25 years ago) so forgive me :).

I think we agree... we just don't realize it.

100. Childhood Origins of Adult Resistance to Science

Comment #70163 by bamafreethinker on September 14, 2007 at 8:24 am

Living in the bible belt, it's hard to find ANYONE who's not a believer and I've not had much experience with doctors – thank god (Oops… I've only been out a few years : )

The doctors I've dealt with however, seemed to keep their religion totally out of their medical business – with the exception of a few wall-hangings – so it doesn't bother me much at all. As long as they know they're stuff…

RD is coming to my state (about an hour away) on Oct. 3 (my birthday), but the event is sold out : (

Bama