51. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #111060 by kraut on January 13, 2008 at 12:12 pm

"the explanation is always an evolutionary one?"

That is not surprising and amazing when considering the weirdest of all beliefs - that evolution does have absolutely no role in development of either species or behaviours but everything was presented on a platter (even if it is a globe called earth, although the believers in non evolution also defended the platter earth at one time to the detriment of the live of the unbeliever)by a very hypothetical whatever you might call it.

I guess a reflexive response.

52. Why people believe weird things about money

Comment #111048 by kraut on January 13, 2008 at 11:58 am

"Would you rather earn $50,000 a year while other people make $25,000, or would you rather earn $100,000 a year while other people get $250,000? Assume for the moment that prices of goods and services will stay the same."

I guess the attitude is ingrained in a society based on greed and money as status symbol and the sole measure of success.
Rather earn than twice the average than less than halve what the biggest earners make, even if the latter gives you more freedom from monetary concerns.

I had to learn - due to age and health constraints - to live with 30% less then before. The astonishing thing - I go further with my money now, by cutting a lot of unnecessary crap, than before.

53. Did mozzies, not a meteor, do for the dinosaurs?

Comment #108906 by kraut on January 7, 2008 at 11:38 pm

I never knew dinosaurs had vanished. I thought they all had become members of the republican party.
That is not an elephant in their logo - look closely. Its a triceratops in disguise.

54. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #108041 by kraut on January 5, 2008 at 10:08 pm

"5. The mediocrity of mankind."

what do you expect of a god that was created in mankinds own image?

55. The OUT Campaign has its own Flea!

Comment #106347 by kraut on January 2, 2008 at 5:33 pm

That campaign is about the equivalent of a "communist out" campaign in east germany before the fall of the wall.

In the face of mitt romneys preferred denial of access to non christians to government office, this out campaign would be laughable, were it not so despiccable.

56. Pope's exorcist squads will wage war on Satan

Comment #104842 by kraut on December 29, 2007 at 4:27 pm

He really believes his own crap! What an idiot.

57. 'Gospel of wealth' facing scrutiny

Comment #104242 by kraut on December 28, 2007 at 7:43 am

I find it astonishing that "real" churchleaders do not speak out against this nonsense, that actually pulls their valued "christianity" down to the level of voodoo.

The belief in christ (as I understood it as a former cahtholic) is the adherence to a set in moral and ethical principles, the transcendendance of human life and the eventual everlasting community with god.
What those buggers make of religion (actually good for making atheist converts) is a "wish delivery" system on par with santa clause, or any other religion that promise success by following a certain set of rituals. It is a paganisation of christianity - and I love it, as the idiocy of the majority of the "believers" and the utter callousness of the "priests" gets nicely exposed.

58. Priest who committed suicide for rebirth cremated

Comment #103260 by kraut on December 24, 2007 at 6:31 pm

I think you all misundertsand the man - an experiment done in the spirit of true scientific inquiry.

Hypothesis fasified, testobject expired. Theorie confirmed - there ain't no coming back...

59. Religious Freedom in Military Questioned

Comment #100989 by kraut on December 19, 2007 at 6:11 pm

"With that in mind I think I personally can forgive him for being on the pro-life side of the abortion issue."

I do not give a hoot if someone dislikes abortion or not, if he sees it as a non issue or likes to dicourage it. Where the shit starts stinking is the implementation of criminal law against women who abort - towards idiots who advocate that I have no mercy, they do not belong into office, having absolutely nothing learned from history.

As to the religious army - only befitting a christian empire...After all, what do you expect from a Commander in chief who has gods approval for his wars he started after 9/11.

It also makes it easier for any islamist to see the devil in those misguided fools...better for target practice.

60. Do the laws of God trump those of man?

Comment #99502 by kraut on December 16, 2007 at 10:20 pm

"But so is freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and many others."

"It *is* about freedom of conscience, not acting illegally."

And I do not argue against your statement.
But any of those freedoms is NOT limitless.
If they lead to conflict with either the law or infringes on life. liberty or the equal rights of others, then this conflict has to be resolved utilizing the codified law.

Anybody can act as if a "god given law" supercedes a criminal or civil law - all he/she has to do is suffer the consequences of this conflict.

Since there are more gods around then there are codes of laws (just look up the hindu pantheon) the legal system has to be secular, as any law based on one religious belief would violate the law of any other religious belief.

Even from a religious perspective it is preferable to have a law that is not based on any god based commandments pertaining to any particular religion.

61. Do the laws of God trump those of man?

Comment #99485 by kraut on December 16, 2007 at 7:03 pm

"I'm not sure that having gender equality superseding freedom of conscience is such a good idea."


It is not freedom of conscience, it is acting illegaly. You can express your mysoginism verbally, but that doesn't give you the freedom to slap your wife or daughter around.
Freedom to exercise you religion is limited strictly by adherence to the legal code and the rights of others. There simply is no point of discussion here.

62. Creation college seeks state's OK to train teachers

Comment #99134 by kraut on December 15, 2007 at 5:41 pm

"All human beings descended from Adam and Eve."

And the rest sprung from incest. Nice bible, nice...

63. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #98590 by kraut on December 13, 2007 at 11:02 pm

One could argue that the creationist disproves his own statements..after all, he is left to spread his genes....
Which doesn't bode well for the sceptics.
Another kind of struggle for survival.

64. Controversial Anti-Muslim Dutch Film Adds to Already Simmering Tensions

Comment #97843 by kraut on December 12, 2007 at 5:42 pm

One of the MP's main themes is safety and he said anyone convicted of three violent offences should be jailed for life. He also called for rehabilitation camps, expansion of random search areas to the entire country and a large increase in the number of police officers.

He called for billions of euros in cuts to the overseas development budget — retaining only emergency aid — abolition of the Education and Economic Affairs ministries and reducing the public service by 50 percent. Child allowance payments should also be reduced.

Wilders claimed that scrapping minimum wage laws and liberalising redundancy legislation would lead to greater employment, news service NOS reported on Monday.

http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=17983


Your run off the mill neocon, nothing to get exited about. I think the US had just about enough of their sucessful policies. But if the Durch want to try? At least, they aren't able to invade anybody...maybe Belgium?

Just because somebody is against islam doesn't make him either an atheist or somebody who doesn't espouse an unreasonable ideology.

65. 'Boycott Worked': Compass Flops - Opening Weekend $26 Million; Narnia $63 Million

Comment #96535 by kraut on December 10, 2007 at 5:21 pm

"And ease up on demonizing Catholicism-no other religion has done more to promote human rights, science and goodwill.""

How ignorant can one person be? ignorant of the bloody history starting from instigating hatred against jews during the council of nicea through the violence against the catherers, the church supported actions against the slavic people by the "Kreuz Ritter", the fights and bloody mindedness of the Knights Templar in palestine, the bloody conversions of the native south american tribes supported by the jesuits, the church supported 30 year war, the witch hunts in europe, the actions of the inquisition, the fights against reason and knowledge, from giardono bruno to galilei, and last but not least the concordat with the Nazi Party in germany and their proclamations towards sex, hiv and homosexuality, their actions of covering up thousands of cases of child abuse by their priests world wide - all very supportive of human rights, science and goodwill.

Is he ignorant, stupid, a liar or all of the above? I CONCLUDE HE MUST BE AN UTTER IDIOT TO SPOUT SUCH FALSEHOODS DESPITE A WEEL DOCUMENTED SORDID AND VIOLENT HISTORY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

66. Atheists' sign sparks controversy

Comment #96250 by kraut on December 10, 2007 at 8:29 am

"We ultimately believe that Christians have been persecuted throughout history," said Houser, "so this is nothing new.""

Too much believe here...the facts are that christians has been both: persecuted and being very effective persecutors.

67. Is Infant Male Circumcision An Abuse Of The Rights Of The Child?

Comment #96087 by kraut on December 10, 2007 at 12:26 am

wow, you must know very little about women.

ok wise guy - you go ahead and point out to me the anatomical and functional importance of a clit.

But why do some folks fall into this trap again of comparing two evils? It is like - who was worse, adolph or josef(ph). Both circumcisions are just an outrage, and to belittle one in order to stress the claimed worse instance is just wrong.

Keep in mind that female circumcision usually happens shortly before puberty, while male circumcision happens in the newborn stage.
Just hear the scream of prepubescent boys being circumcised under the same circumstances.

What makes me cackle with delight that, in the jewish persuasion the foreskin removal is sort of
handshake between the jewish idol and its deluded followers to agree to their "sacred" covenant. What a riot...

68. Is Infant Male Circumcision An Abuse Of The Rights Of The Child?

Comment #96079 by kraut on December 10, 2007 at 12:06 am

"chop off the entire head of the penis"


excuse me - what does the clitoris have to do with an actually functioning part of a womans anatomy? The foreskin clearly protects the tip of your penis, has some role during intercourse and cutting it off removes that protection. What does the clitoris protect? It is just a penis leftover, completely non functional - except good for stimulation.

69. Is Infant Male Circumcision An Abuse Of The Rights Of The Child?

Comment #96073 by kraut on December 9, 2007 at 11:41 pm

"But Kirsten Patrick of the BMJ argues that, if competently performed, circumcision carries little risk and cannot be compared with female circumcision."

What the fuck does she know? Just let a male make such a stupid assumption about their clit and the feminazis are all over him - ready for castration.

My pecker stays intact. And my son's too. I have gotten enough parts cut off already...

70. Biologist fired for beliefs, suit says

Comment #95836 by kraut on December 9, 2007 at 10:14 am

Evolution is not a matter of believe, but the underpinning of biology.
The bible on the other hand has no scientific value at all as evidence.

If you as a so called "scientist" believe that the bible supercedes the collected works of scientific work on evolution since the middle 1800's, then you are simply incapable in performing your job and should not have gotten ths position in the first place, as it makes you unsuitable as a teacher of science and an intelligent participant in any discussion.

"But on Nov. 17, Hahn asked him to resign, pointing out in the letter that Abraham should have known of evolution's centrality to the project because it was evident from the job advertisement and grant proposal."

Simply a case of fraudulently applying for a position you are not suited for. Case closed.

71. Former Evangelical Minister Has a New Message: Jesus Hearts Darwin

Comment #95245 by kraut on December 7, 2007 at 5:38 pm

"Many people just call it the universe."

I thought this was self evident. The universe, as opposed to god, exists, is observable and apparently created itself from a state of uncertainty.

I have no trouble to call a self creating universe a creator.

72. Atheism's Wrong Turn

Comment #93640 by kraut on December 3, 2007 at 7:33 pm

"I think that Freud has taught us that children wrestle oedipally with their parents' values, and after wrestling with them, either embrace them or overcome them"

Another freu...fraud perpetrated on mankind.
Another "authority" hopefully being flushed down the drain of history.
Freud, Jung and all the so called "psychologists", a bunsh of hogw(art)shian nonsense on the same level as the hogwart school of magic.
The products of some fertile and inventive minds, trying to explain the workings of the human mind based on stories, either made up or dragged from the dust of history. Another religion with a secular name. May they rest in turmoil.

73. Poll finds more Americans believe in devil than Darwin

Comment #92535 by kraut on November 30, 2007 at 5:57 pm

could the dismissal of Darwin lead to a selection pressure on the subspecies homo sapiens americanensis leading to its final demise?

74. Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Comment #92533 by kraut on November 30, 2007 at 5:51 pm

"Wonder why he singled out Marxism ahead of Nazism?"

wonder why? Because they had a nice little deal with the Nazis, called a concordat. And remember - adolph is still a - now deceased, but not ex - member of the catholic church.

The idiocy of equating an ideology that incorporates atheism as one part of a political ideology, with an atheism that is as well sceptical of politics and ideologies who place themselves in a "godly"= totalitarian position, is the refuge of the papal scoundrel.

And others looking for the spar in someone elses eyes and overlooking the beam of genocide, fratricide, ethnic cleansing, witchhunts, slavery (afaik slavery was almost universally condoned in countries with a strong religious influence, be it muslim, christian or whatever - the gods seemed to prefer this concept)in their own brains.

75. Golden Compass author hits back

Comment #91640 by kraut on November 28, 2007 at 7:31 pm

Having read the books over the weekend, I find them very entertaining and thoughtprovoking - for children up to about teenagers.
Very much action oriented, with excursion into "thanatology".:-), witchcraft etc. Very spellbinding even for an adult with strong ties to his own childhood.
But - from a christian standpoint, those books definetely promote independent thinking, question the value of any religion, critisize the power of organized religion and advocate to some extend atheism.
They portray "the authority" as an ursurper, a cheat and a liar, now old, and to be replaced by a younger and stronger regent, who plans on a final solution for the "unfaithfulness" of mankind.
Definetely a good read, highly recommended but dangerous for any believers.

76. 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Comment #91000 by kraut on November 26, 2007 at 11:08 pm

"'m sorry but I really feel like I have to defend this religion (I think I'm blinded by love, noooooo...)
I wouldnt blame anyone for being a islamophobia"

No, do not defend this religion, do not defend any religion. They are the enemy of reason and humanity, a scourge on human dignity for thousands of years.
There can be only one solution - destroy all religions. It is a fight for survival and it is a fight against those who use religion as a means to keep in power, to keep in power by any means possible.

77. Monotheism was a con from the beginning

Comment #90904 by kraut on November 26, 2007 at 4:15 pm

At its very birth, montheism was a con.


Thanks for stating that so clearly.
Now lets start applying some swift kicks to the rear of the selfappointed popes, priests and the lot of those social parasites.

Just listening today about the way the Ukrainians were treated in Canada after 1915 to 1920, i find it tempting at a point in history to establish such camps for the consummate and most highly developed liars there exists - theologians and all the other ancilliary perpetrators of this highly developed fraud.

78. 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Comment #90900 by kraut on November 26, 2007 at 4:05 pm

It is a religion like any other religion (dunno if that's a good thing still, but oh well)

No it is definetely not.
The bloodthirstyness that pervades this religion, the required abandonemnet of all reason and personal choice to subjugate yourself to allah - or whatever is unholy name is - is utter and complete.
Ther is no concept of love in this religion - that is what to some extend makes the christian non fundamentalists easier to live with - I have quite a few friends among them, who know my stance and still find association with me acceptable.

The worst expression of this no choice left subjugation is the demand to kill any and all apostates.

No, this religion has to be eliminated first - and then we work on the others.

79. 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Comment #90841 by kraut on November 26, 2007 at 1:44 pm

I come to believe, anybody not being an islamophobe in western countries with a large islamic population doesn't know s/he is playing with fire. Attempts at introducing sharia law into canada have been made and luckily have been defeated.
The will not integrate - so why welcome them?
Kicke'm out, there are countries where there is a muslim majority. Please stay there, not welcome here. We are not welcome to live by our laws in any muslim country either.

80. 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

Comment #90825 by kraut on November 26, 2007 at 1:20 pm

Ya know - fucke'm, but fuckem hard. No more "aid", just abandon those religious idiots, leave stew in their own spiritual soup.

81. Rock of Ages, Ages of Rock

Comment #90618 by kraut on November 25, 2007 at 8:28 pm

I actually feel sorry for those folkes who cannot take the evidence in front of them and rather put their faith in a compilation of several thousand year old yarns when nobody knew better.

That those folks can actually call themselves "academics" is a joke. I have never known before that twisting evidence to support believes in unicorns (among other mythical creatures or creators) has academic value.

82. Sunday School for Atheists

Comment #90617 by kraut on November 25, 2007 at 8:23 pm

"An estimated 14% of Americans profess to have no religion, and among 18-to-25-year-olds, the proportion rises to 20%"

There is hope, after all

83. Man-sized sea scorpion claw found

Comment #89798 by kraut on November 21, 2007 at 6:22 pm

"Or a man sized spider that spins its web on high ways intersections to make a meal out of un-suspecting travelers."

the problem is - in what enclosure would I keep that one?...when I think of nandhu vulpinus in supersize...

84. Are Scientists Playing God? It Depends on Your Religion

Comment #89425 by kraut on November 20, 2007 at 4:59 pm

Similarly, some leading opponents of embryo research for cloning, like Leon Kass, say they are defending not Judeo-Christian beliefs, but "human dignity."

I find this rather ironic. Where does he defend the dignity of the person with parkinsons etc. who could be helped by stem cells?
I have no issue with using aborted embryos for research. You can only have an argument when you believe in a "soul" that somehow can be seperated from the body, and thus an embryo being a "human".
Utter nonsense.

85. For the glory of God

Comment #89178 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 11:52 pm

But I still find your attitude offensive.

being called a tin foil hat wearer among other things an lead outbursts.

Anyway - I refrain from further outbursts, and I definetely have no interests in showing my "cleverness". I am too old for that. I am not longer in the dating game.
Why I am so infuriated is that "spokes persons" like dawkins, whom I greatly admire, can fall into the trap of such simplistic view. That is the reason why I try to support my assertions that the truth is a lot more complicated with what you term "monologue", and is actually being hidden by those statements.

86. For the glory of God

Comment #89166 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 11:13 pm

What is your point?

Ok, let me put it a little clearer:
My hypothesis is that religion is in no way a prime mover - either in a conflict between nations or in the majority of terrorists attacks.
Pushing that motive forward, as done in the article by gardner, hinders the search for the real motives.
If ISI financed this endavour from pakistan - what is the reason? Who benefits, who was in control?
The religous argument outright prohibits those questions.
As a ready made explanation is presented - and further investigation is not necessary. And this I find simply unbelievable from what I know of history - from the crusades on, religion was NEVER EVER a prime mover for the ones who wielded the power. It was always - accumulation of power, accumulation of wealth.

The evidence to support my hypothesis - it there, in bits and pieces, 100 000$ here, a not very religious Mohammed Atta there, training camps sponsered by the CIA in afghanistan, Osama Bin laden of no more interest for senior arbusto.
There is a lot, lot more that point to pakistan and its secret service - whith connections to the CIA, but maybe one hand really didn't know what the other was doing.

Then there is kosovo - why, if religion would be of such importance, create a basically muslim state in the middle of europe?

But atheism is apparently used as a tool - maybe because it has become fashionable and chic - to help to hide, filter, obfuscate.

Just blast the poor muslims that are but tools in the hands of any power who chooses to use them.

I guess you have read this one.
This is the future planned for us:

Although it may take several decades for the process of transformation to unfold, in time, the art of warfare on air, land, and sea will be vastly different than it is today, and "combat" likely will take place in new dimensions: in space, "cyber-space," and perhaps the world of microbes. Air warfare may no longer be fought by pilots manning tactical fighter aircraft sweeping the skies of opposing fighters, but a regime dominated by long-range, stealthy unmanned craft. On land, the clash of massive, combined-arms
armored forces may be replaced by the dashes of much lighter, stealthier and information-intensive forces, augmented by fleets of robots, some small enough to fit in soldiers' pockets. Control of the sea could be largely determined not by fleets of
surface combatants and aircraft carriers, but
from land- and space-based systems, forcing navies to maneuver and fight underwater.
Space itself will become a theater of war, as nations gain access to space capabilities and come to rely on them; further, the distinction between military and commercial space systems – combatants and noncombatants – will become blurred. Information systems will become an important focus of attack, particularly for U.S. enemies seeking to short-circuit sophisticated American forces.
And advanced forms of biological warfare that can "target" specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool. This is merely a glimpse of the possibilities inherent in the process of transformation, not a precise prediction.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

87. For the glory of God

Comment #89149 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 9:16 pm

new delhi: while the pakistani inter services public relations claimed that former isi director-general lt-gen mahmud ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on monday, the truth is more shocking. top sources confirmed here on tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" india produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the world trade centre. the us authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to wtc hijacker mohammed atta from pakistan by ahmad umar sheikh at the instance of gen mahumd. senior government sources have confirmed that india contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed isi chief. while they did not provide details, they said that indian inputs, including sheikh's mobile phone number, helped the fbi in tracing and establishing the link. a direct link between the isi and the wtc attack could have enormous repercussions. the us cannot but suspect whether or not there were other senior pakistani army commanders who were in the know of things. evidence of a larger conspiracy could shake us confidence in pakistan's ability to participate in the anti-terrorism coalition. indian officials say they are vitally interested in the unravelling of the case since it could link the isi directly to the hijacking of the indian airlines kathmandu-delhi flight to kandahar last december. ahmad umar sayeed sheikh is a british national and a london school of economics graduate who was arrested by the police in delhi following a bungled 1994 kidnapping of four westerners, including an american citizen.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1454238160.cms

The times of India wears tin foil hats as well.

And I forgot - it is all very religiously inspired..
as the third reich (probably the catholic church behind that one, see Italy)
probably the communist revolution (by the jews, odf course),
the thirty year war (by the catholic church again to preserve the true faith),
the conflict in Ireland of course - a conflict of course of religion, not about imperialism and the doination by england of a part of Ireland, ourely conspirational speculation that one)
The conflict between palestinensians and the jews, an outright religious conflict, any other analysis is simply beyond the point
The vietnam conflict most likely - a christian empire against godless commies
the same with korea, in another time and another theatre
the conflicts in bosnia, serbia and kroatia, one christian religion against the other and all against the poor muslims (no mentioning that the Nato heavily supported the murderous semi nazi kroation gangs which already wreaked havoc supported by nazis in WW2 against the serb population)

To view international conflicts with religious - and that means also anti religious - visors on, leads onto the wrong path to understanding, almost always without fail, and prevents one to grasp the real issues behind conflicts.

One could say it with more pith an vinegar: The religious motive as an explantaion for conflicts is meant for the consumption of the unwashed, uncurious and uneducated majority of morons.

88. For the glory of God

Comment #89146 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 8:52 pm

Oh, I get it - a troll is someone who disagrees with the opinions of the majority or the self or otherwise apointed gurus of a select elite. I bow before your judgement in....disgust.

Just pointing out unsustainable or at least questionable statements makes one a troll, eh?
Just disagreeing with the majority makes one troll eh?
Stating that the search for what really is behind actions and thereby admitting that asinine majority believes are irrelevant, and by the same token to refuse to play nice is trolling, eh?

Man, heil to the party and the fuerer.
You are really not one of a kind, but an apt spokesman for unsceptical atheistic believe in nonsense. I supplied some hints were evidence can be found, supplied some evidence, asked questions made statement that are supported by evidence one can look up for himself, just not in the state controlled US media.
wWat you so far have brought to the discussion is a bunch of vapid, insulting, nobnsensical oneliners. Go back to your kindergarden buddy, and try as real troll of the oneliners not get in discussions with you elders.

89. For the glory of God

Comment #89145 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 8:40 pm

Bin Laden Whereabouts Before 9/11

Author: Dan Rather, Barry Petersen
CBS Evening News with Dan Rather
January 28, 2002


(transcript)

DAN RATHER, CBS ANCHOR: As the United states and its allies in the war on terrorism press the hunt for Osama bin Laden, CBS News has exclusive information tonight about where bin Laden was and what he was doing in the last hours before his followers struck the United States September 11.

This is the result of hard-nosed investigative reporting by a team of CBS news journalists, and by one of the best foreign correspondents in the business, CBS`s Barry Petersen. Here is his report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BARRY PETERSEN, CBS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Everyone remembers what happened on September 11. Here`s the story of what may have happened the night before. It is a tale as twisted as the hunt for Osama bin Laden.

CBS News has been told that the night before the September 11 terrorist attack, Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan. He was getting medical treatment with the support of the very military that days later pledged its backing for the U.S. war on terror in Afghanistan.

Pakistan intelligence sources tell CBS News that bin Laden was spirited into this military hospital in Rawalpindi for kidney dialysis treatment. On that night, says this medical worker who wanted her identity protected, they moved out all the regular staff in the urology department and sent in a secret team to replace them. She says it was treatment for a very special person. The special team was obviously up to no good.

"The military had him surrounded," says this hospital employee who also wanted his identity masked, "and I saw the mysterious patient helped out of a car. Since that time," he says, "I have seen many pictures of the man. He is the man we know as Osama bin Laden. I also heard two army officers talking to each other. They were saying that Osama bin Laden had to be watched carefully and looked after." Those who know bin Laden say he suffers from numerous ailments, back and stomach problems. Ahmed Rashid, who has written extensively on the Taliban, says the military was often there to help before 9/11.

AHMED RASHID, TALIBAN EXPERT: There were reports that Pakistani intelligence had helped the Taliban buy dialysis machines. And the rumor was that these were wanted for Osama bin Laden.

PETERSEN (on camera): Doctors at the hospital told CBS News there was nothing special about that night, but they refused our request to see any records. Government officials tonight denied that bin Laden had any medical treatment on that night.

(voice-over): But it was Pakistan`s President Musharraf who said in public what many suspected, that bin Laden suffers from kidney disease, saying he thinks bin Laden may be near death. His evidence, watching this most recent video, showing a pale and haggard bin Laden, his left hand never moving. Bush administration officials admit they don`t know if bin Laden is sick or even dead.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: With respect to the issue of Osama bin Laden`s health, I just am -- don`t have any knowledge.

PETERSEN: The United States has no way of knowing who in Pakistan`s military or intelligence supported the Taliban or Osama bin Laden maybe up to the night before 9/11 by arranging dialysis to keep him alive. So the United States may not know if those same people might help him again perhaps to freedom.

Barry Petersen, CBS News, Islamabad.

I guess the CBS Dan Rather wears a tin hat as well...

90. For the glory of God

Comment #89139 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 8:25 pm

nailss - i wanted to correct it, but it looks nice...

91. For the glory of God

Comment #89137 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 8:23 pm

"It was precisely for the greater glory of God that that terrible deed was done," he says.

Just because dawkins spouts idicies sometimes, doesn't mean they have to be taken seriously.
Not questioning critically his own stance regarding political realities and obfuscating the issues by shrouding them in anti religious nonsense is not what I call persuit of the truth.

"For example, calling me Bin Laden isn't exactly winning me over."

Which presumes I want to win anybody over. I am more into attacking bullshit statements where I find them, and give a fuck about playing nice.
As you and others might have gathered. And just because soimebody nailss the plaque "atheist" on his forehead means he has the slightest incling about politics - and that means Dawkins, Hitchens or anybody else.
Especially Hitchens, who would make an excellent replacement for cheny if bush could drop his religious idiocies.

If you refer from the Cause to The cause - do not presume I put you on the same level of authority as Osama (or Usama) - or Zawahiri within this rather silly notion of atheism that gets propagated here.
I noticed a rather deferential attitude - unquestioning bowing to the atheist guru by the followers of atheism. Not my cuppa.

92. For the glory of God

Comment #89113 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 6:16 pm

"I wasn't aware there needed to be something comforting about it, or that I ever implied there was."

You "accuse" me of painting doomsday pictures. Your word, not mine. So I paint you a picture of the present day sceneraio. I don't call it doomsday, I call it not comforting. Does the word doomsday reflect some religious notion on your part?

You accuse me of righteausness. Which one, as it cannot be religious?

Ideological - which one ideology? as I accept capitalism as necessary for the development of society, but despise the "government funded" crony capitalism of bush and consorts. Maybe you like crony capitalism which as its basis has a war that is necessary to channel the funds to the proper friends? And any depracation of such, insults your sensitivities? Questions only.

I say you guys/gals get blinded to the "real politic" that is happening, by reason of "anti religion", not atheism, which to me implies a generally sceptical attitude that I miss in this discussion.
What has my assessment of your uncritically inferring relgious motives to do with righteousness - a clearly religious term?
You being laden with this amount of religious verbiage, I am willing to hypoyhesize that you are a recent convert to the "CAUSE".

93. For the glory of God

Comment #89086 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 4:59 pm

"A ..and you accuse me of painting a doomsday scenario?
Yep.
:) "

a painting portraying reality...
The talk of destroying irans nuclear sites via "tactical" nukes, the incident where some US bomber flew "accidentally" laden with nuclear warheads across the US and where called back before they could continue to somewhere...the attacks by israel of "sites" in syria, pakistan, israel, india and china with nuclear weapons..what is comforting about this picture - no smilies...and no religious motives in sight

94. For the glory of God

Comment #89082 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 4:47 pm

"Well, next time, don't jump to self righteous conclusions."

Your conclusion that pointing to something else then religion as the prime motive is self righteaous? Or how do I understand your replies? Anybody who doesn't believe your take on 9/11 and the mess the bush gang created is tin foil conspiracy?
Only uninformed atheism creating religious non existent motives is the TRUE answer.

To that I can only say, that other than supporting scepticism on all levels, atheism has truly become a antireligion - a religion nonetheless because it has abandoned a necessary sceptical stance to look for other than religious explanations. Sleep well and dream of antigod.

95. For the glory of God

Comment #89078 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 4:39 pm

"Perhaps I spoke too soon.
You seem to be (hope I'm wrong) one those 9/11 conspiracy types."

where is your evidence that all or even most of the perpetrators were "religious nut cases?"
Financing of the perpetrators by the ISI just before the final attacks on 9/11 to the tune of a last payment of 100 000$ is no conspiracy, it is actraceable fact. The visit to the US by the ISI handler of Atta is also a traceable fact.

The evidence that those guys did it - that's pretty strong. But the reasons behind it - and the financing/support traces to pakistan, not saudi arabia or any other country.
And there is no reason to believe that the motives where religious at all.
Musharraf is not a religious person, he plays a power game - very ineptly as his latest move shows. And he draws on every and anybody who is willing to play along - for money or a share in power.
And the US supports the most unstable regime in the far east and permitted them to develop and then possess atomic weapons - and you accuse me of painting a doomsday scenario?

96. For the glory of God

Comment #89071 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 4:26 pm

"Shhhh, simmer down, little buckaroo."

Sorry, blatant ignorance as exhibited by some here does that to me.

And the implied accusations that about a million dead iraquis, 4 million displaced irquis and about 3000 dead american soldiers, the waste of over a trillion dollars without achieving anything but plunging a country back to before the middle ages
is somehow a tin foil conspiracy not made possible by a lying, torturing and brutal government that holds its own with Russia - before perestryoka.

97. For the glory of God

Comment #89068 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 4:22 pm

"PS Kraut - you make assumptions that people don't see or talk about anything except religion on this site. You are incorrect in this. We are not mono-dimensional."

That might be the case - but to assume that 9/11 was caused by religious fanatics is not necessarily borne out by the facts. The fact that the ISI had its hand in the game points to other then religious interests.

The taliban, as before them the mujahaddin, where funded not because of religion - but because of a power game - the great game as kipling once called it - on the indian subcontinent and the surroundin countries. Religion plays a role - but a role exploitet by those playing the game, today it is not so much Russia, it is the US, China and India.

98. For the glory of God

Comment #89065 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 4:13 pm

"Oh, and Kraut, lose the chicken little/tinfoil hat stuff, wouldya?"

What do you mean by tinfoil? he kindly asks? That the US government has implemented torture, secret detention, rendition, lying to start a war, support of muslim extremist in past and present is a conspiracy? That the use of kurdish terrorists inside Iran is a conspiracy? The plans for an American Empire as envisioned by the like of wolfowitz and cheney is conspiracy - yes, by those who wrote this paper. I have a copy at home, since 2002. Your accusation is like accusing the jews of talking about a nazi conspiracy to eliminate them - with a copy of "mein kampf" in your hand.

Who build up Osama Bin Laden? Who supported Musharraff when he funneled moneys to build up the taliban, in order to establish a force against India in Kashmir and on its northern border? Who helped the taliban to establish training camps and left 2000 madrassas to teach islamic hatred for everything non islamic? Musharraf as supported by the US.
And moneys to Atta v ia the ISI is a tin foil conspiracy - man(woman), read asian times on line for once, read the nation, mother jones, the New Yorker and then compare their analysis with reality and you will find who is on the right track and who isn't. Just read what Pablo Escobar wrote about the future of Iraq in 2003 only weeks after the illegal invasion, and compare that with the analysis of everything from Fox to CNN and you know who is out to lunch.
Its as in science - you create a hypothesis and you follow the evidence. And the evidence so far supports those who warned in the beginning where the US was heading - in the direction of empire with very undemocratic consequences for the poulation.
You accuse me of tinfoil conspiracy - ever read one word of homeland security act one and two, the law to disposess anybody who supports "terrorism" by word, financially or in any other way.
Man, your ignorance and the accusations springing from this ignorance tell me one thing only: you are like your president. Read what a Canadian Parlamentarian called him and got penalized for.

99. For the glory of God

Comment #89012 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 1:33 pm

EDIT- Kraut, please don't call people stupid.


Ok, I then call their postings based on insufficient information, prejudice and a general lack of reflection on the topic.

It's nice to skim the surface and find whom to blame - when it should be your own government and its efforts to encourage extremism worldwide that you should blame.
But I guess - it is easier to find others at fault then to investigate the real reasons and blame your collective drowsiness that elected something like GWB not once - which is excusable, but twice - which proved to be deadly for quite a few.

100. For the glory of God

Comment #88933 by kraut on November 19, 2007 at 7:34 am

"EDIT- Kraut, please don't call people stupid."

I will call their analysis, their worries and them blaming the tool stupid, uninformed and misguided.
OK?