51. Richard Dawkins, TV evangelist

Comment #62859 by Ole on August 12, 2007 at 1:46 am

Gordon Lynch, do you care about the truth?

Last nigh over here in Norway, princess Martha Louise was interviewed (she has contact with angels). Sad to listen to. In one section of the interview, she mention quantum physics. That is a trend among new agers. Do they know anything about it? No, not a "quanta" ;-)

Another new-ager over here, has been given a lot of space in a newspaper. He is telling people that evolution is just a theory and that Intelligent Design is a better theory. Luckily one of the few science journalists in Norway has taken time to debunk him. I also wrote a few articles opposing him.

Even if ID is promoted much more over in US, it is still popping up here. Promoted by new-agers. Should we care about it or not?

Ole

52. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61465 by Ole on August 5, 2007 at 8:46 am

We need to get this on TV over here in Norway!
As some of you may know, princess Martha Louise is talking to angels.

Btw, recently, I tried to give a local news paper some critique. (But they did not publish it.) They gave a "con artist" from UK a lot of free publisity, but did not follow up with any critical comments. This guy, Phil Phillips, is talking to dead people, healing, reading tarot cards, etc. etc. I'm sure it was the timing with the princess that made the local newspaper give him all that free publisity.

This Phillips guy has his own web: http://www.phil-phillips.com/

Ole

53. The Flea Circus Invites a Newcomer!

Comment #60545 by Ole on August 2, 2007 at 7:28 am

Hi David,

I saw you on the video clip. Nice. There was one thing you said that I'd like to comment on.

Maybe some people read RD's book and changed their mind and became atheists, BUT, I'm sure many of us already was in that postion.

As I told you a long time ago, I never really believed and when my grandmother tried to explain her christian faith to me (I was 9), I felt sorry for her. I did not believe in Santa Claus, but I felt that she was trapped in a belief of that kind.

As a teenager, I decided to go to the source. I first read the new testament and then started with the old. That was shocking. How can anyone really believe that "stuff"?

As you know, many people of faith never took the time to really read the "source". They only "cherry picked".

Later, I've read many of Bertrand Russells books and now lately Dennett, Dawkins, Onfray, Harris and Hitchens. I have also read your letters (posted on the web) and discussions here. I'm still an atheist. I think the reading has given me more arguments, but my first reading of the "source" made it for me ;-)

Maybe some posters here are rough and impolite to you, but I also find many who argues very well - people who are educated.

Ole

P.S.
I agree with a poster here: David, learn to quote better, (only a little bit of HTML)... then your posts will be easier to follow.

54. The Out Campaign

Comment #60240 by Ole on August 1, 2007 at 11:18 am

Hi David,

Thank you very much for your response! I agree with you - "..I think that her beliefs are nuts ..".

Can science study religion?
Should science study religion?

I think so. We also need to look at the "new age" stuff (where some even try put science into the mix).

Regards,

Ole

55. The Flea Circus Invites a Newcomer!

Comment #60231 by Ole on August 1, 2007 at 10:59 am

So far, no one have gone after Michel Onfray and his Atheist Manifesto

Ole

P.S.
Since Onfray is from France, perhaps he should be included in the group of "Atheist Musketeers"?

56. The Out Campaign

Comment #59994 by Ole on July 31, 2007 at 11:46 am

Hi again David Robertson,

Ole from Norway. It has been a while since I asked you questions (and gave you comment for being brave by taking time on this website).

Here is a new one for you, based on the recent event over here in Norway:

What do you think about Norway's Princess Martha Louise who says she has psychic powers and can teach people to communicate with angels?

More here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6915262.stm

Ole

P.S.
I'm not so sure we have such a different situation over here on this side of the pond. There are a lot of "gullible" people here. Princess Martha Louise's course is already full booked. ;-)

57. Town Hall Seattle: God Is Not Great

Comment #57379 by Ole on July 19, 2007 at 4:15 am

Hitch, som trivia in regards to the cartoons:

It was not a newspaper from Copenhagen, but the Jyllands-Posten ("The Jutland Post"). Copehangen is not on Jutland, it's on Sealand.

More about the cartoons here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy

Ole

58. The Atheism FAQ with Richard Dawkins

Comment #47096 by Ole on June 3, 2007 at 2:32 am

A FAQ is perhaps a modern type of scripture?

What if we used the FAQ idea and "reversed engineered", say the Koran? ;-)

Q: Did you mean "virgin" or "white raisins"?

A: It was about food. Chilled raisins (or drinks) that the just will have the pleasure of tasting in contrast to the boiling drinks promised the unfaithful and damned.

Ole

59. Kirk Cameron Proves That God Exists

Comment #39978 by Ole on May 12, 2007 at 1:32 pm

How boring it is to listen to people like this Comfort guy. He has obviously never taken any time to understand Darwin and evolution. He is in fact stuck in the era around 1802 when the "watchmaker analogy" was given by William Paley. He think he is clever (or cool) by using Coca Cola instead of the watch. Do he know that it is quite a long time since 1859 and Charles Darwin's formulation of the theory of natural selection?

If a person came into a lecture about for instance mathemathics and started arguing like Comfort, people would ask him politely to leave. "Go home and study the topic - then come back!"

The same if he entered a discussion about politics of the Middle East and revealed that he did not know that there is a country called Israel. "Please study the topic, then welcome back!"

But, if it is about religion, you can go on the air (on the big channel ABC) and be given time to talk all this nonsense. Strange world ;-)


This other Kirk guy (the actor) - was he ever an atheist? I don't think so, and what do he know about science?

Ole

60. Unholy row at clergy soccer game

Comment #38157 by Ole on May 7, 2007 at 6:23 am

The Imam spokesman said that they were afraid of "bodily contact" with a woman during the soccer game.
This could lead to "special feelings", and this again to something that could be "forbidden"!

Here is a clip from the TV news:
http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/indeks/95222

Ole

61. Religion & Culture Panel

Comment #36503 by Ole on May 1, 2007 at 10:56 am

"Jesus meek and mild" - that was the high point for me. The role of the new testament in other words, the "hell idea" etc.!

I really look forward to getting the book by CH!

Ole

62. Fighting Words: A wartime lexicon

Comment #35494 by Ole on April 27, 2007 at 11:24 am

When I read this, I changed my mind and ordered the book. When I first saw info about it here, I decided: I do not need yet another (I have Dennett, Dawkins, Harris and "old timers" like Russell).

But like others, I liked his writing. Alone, it is one of the best essays I've read on this subject.
(Hope he has more of this in the book)

Of course he struck a nerve in me in the opening here - I was 9 and several years away from loosing my boyish soprano voice, when I realised that God was not more likely than Santa Claus. So, in fact I was never a believer.

Ole

63. Jesus 'Love-Bombs' You

Comment #35439 by Ole on April 27, 2007 at 6:41 am

It is a good thing that we have people like Chris Hedges, who take the time to expose these type of brainwashing systems!

There are a lot of "Jim Kennedys" who is out there doing their ugly business!

Ole

64. Atheists split on how to not believe

Comment #34111 by Ole on April 23, 2007 at 8:57 am

"Humanism is not about erasing religion," he said. "It's an embracing philosophy."

Hm... since he likes to play with words, maybe he should change the name "humanism"?

Why no combine God a Human - Gomanism?

That would be "embracing" ;-)

Ole

65. Space tourist makes safe return

Comment #33840 by Ole on April 22, 2007 at 5:20 am

First some trivia:
Those who have been into programming, may know this:

szName = "Simonyi" ;

66. The Empty Wager

Comment #33079 by Ole on April 19, 2007 at 5:29 am

Had Blaise Pascal lived to finish his Pensées, perhaps there would not have been a Wager?
(After his dead, papers and notes left by Pascal were collected by others and published as the Pensées).

Anyway, what struck me as strange when I read the debate with Warren, was that he resorted to this "infamous" Wager. Why, I thought? Did he not know that for century's now the Wager has been met with serious criticisms. It started already with Voltaire. (Btw, there is nothing new in Harris arguments.).

Ole

67. Sam's Flea!

Comment #32735 by Ole on April 18, 2007 at 6:14 am

A problem I often find with people who tell me they are christians, are that they lack knowledge about their own "holy book". They never took the time to read the book.

When a christian tell me he dislike the stoning business in islam, I tell him: "What about your own holy book?" But he never read a verse like this (from Deuteronomy):

You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. You shall stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt out of the land or slavery.

I have a feeling this is the case with Douglas Wilson in regards to evolution. Have he ever read any serious books about evolution?

If not, why bother with his arguments about 350,000 species of beetles etc.

Ole

68. Mozart doesn't make you clever

Comment #32725 by Ole on April 18, 2007 at 5:32 am

Vronsky,

Like you, I listen a lot to J.S. Bach. He is my favourite composer. (I like Mozart also).

But as atheists, we are sometimes met by this:

In the Latin Bible at Romans 16:27 and Jude 25 we find the words "Soli Deo Gloria"—"to the only God be glory." This was to become J.S.B.'s motto. He would sign his works—whether sacred, such as "The St. Matthew Passion," or "secular," such as the light-hearted "Coffee Cantata," with these letters: S.D.G.

Actually, to Bach there was no difference between sacred and secular. All works, he maintained, should be to the glory of God.

Some even claim that if you do not listen to J.S.B. with this (S.D.G.) in mind, you are just using him as "muzak". By some of these people, J.S.B is called the "Evangelical Musical Genius".

Ole

69. Kadra attacked in public

Comment #32235 by Ole on April 16, 2007 at 9:36 am

Sam, I do not consider myself a "Norwegian" in regards to this case. Like Kadra, Shabana Rema and many, many others, I think we are world citizens. We can think for ourselves. It has nothing to do with coming from Somalia or Norway, etc.

I agree with another poster here. The attackers alone are not the only ones to blaim. Also the imams and leaders from the muslim community must take their part of this stupid situation.

Here is a quote from what the leader for islamic council in Trondheim, Mohammed Jowari, earlier Somalian minister has to say:(my translation)

70. Kadra attacked in public

Comment #32053 by Ole on April 15, 2007 at 11:03 am

Kadra is a brave woman.

As mentioned in the article, she showed for all of us in Norway that some imams practice "double speak".

Officially when asked by TV, the imams condemned circumcision. When she went in with a hidden camera and asked them, they adviced her to be circumcized.

It will be interesting to see if we will have a serious discussion here in Norway now.

Ole

71. Praying for the Apocalypse

Comment #30843 by Ole on April 10, 2007 at 3:56 am

briancoughlanworldcitizen,

Excellent presentation, "Stalin and Jesus" on YouTube!

( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leYp24x_0Uo )

Ole

72. Prophets of the new atheism

Comment #30401 by Ole on April 8, 2007 at 2:08 am

There seems to be a "movement" trying to label us (that do not believe in these old monotheistic religions that have survived since the bronze age)

new atheists

Maybe they have this strategy:
1.) Establish the label "new atheist"
2.) Attack the label (not the content).

What about Bertrand Russell? Was he an "old atheist"?

He published a book 50 years ago - "Why I Am Not a Christian". To me, TGD is a follow up on Russells book.

This quote from Russells book, could easily be a motto for Dawkins, Harris and the rest of us, now, 50 years later:

"I am as firmly convinced that religions do harm as I am that they are untrue."

Ole

73. The God Debate

Comment #29076 by Ole on April 1, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Warren said: "When we die, if he's right, I've lost nothing. If I'm right, he's lost everything. I'm not willing to make that gamble."

What part of the brain is Warren using when he is predicting the future (after his death)? The frontal lobe.

Let me quote something Daniel Gilbert said:
We are the only animals that can peer deeply into our futures — the only animal that can travel mentally through time, preview a variety of futures, and choose the one that will bring us the greatest pleasure and/or the least pain. This is a remarkable adaptation—which, incidentally, is directly tied to the evolution of the frontal lobe

Ole

74. A Brief History of Disbelief

Comment #26675 by Ole on March 21, 2007 at 4:40 am

... science is corrosive to religious belief. Damn it they were right... (Steven Weinberger)

Excellent!

Ole

75. For the God Question, a Biological Perspective

Comment #25576 by Ole on March 14, 2007 at 6:53 am

Unlike Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Frazier has studied TGD!

("Atheists and agnostics fur" - do we atheists have "fur"? Too many errors in the text. I guess it was scanned and run through OCR - but no proof reading?)

Ole

76. Turkey: Creationism Documentary

Comment #25539 by Ole on March 14, 2007 at 3:18 am

..US Christian fundamentalists are joining forces with Muslim creationists..

Well, in Turkey, they call it creationism - and not ID (trying to make it look "Intelligent").

Ole

77. Response to Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris

Comment #25333 by Ole on March 12, 2007 at 7:24 am

Richard said: It is very clear that he has not read any books by Sam or by me.

Absolutely!

If he own the books, he could have showed them instead of using images of them in the video. Also he could have cited from them.

As some pointed out here. This "lecture" was only for his own people.

Hopefully someone will let him know that we are people from all over the world seeing that he is dishonest.

Ask him: Why do you attack books without reading them first?

Ole

78. Response to Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris

Comment #25113 by Ole on March 10, 2007 at 7:45 am

Zappi, excellent analysis of this video!

Ole

79. Merkel wants EU to be vocal about Christian roots

Comment #23566 by Ole on March 1, 2007 at 2:41 pm

I'm glad we are not part of EU.

Ole (in Norway)

80. William Crawley meets Richard Dawkins

Comment #23338 by Ole on February 28, 2007 at 1:35 am

As many of you already said: This was very good!

Imagine if the TV people would learn from this.
How to conduct an interview, how to put forward good questions, how to use that much time, etc. etc.

Hopefully some media people will see this.

Ole

81. 'Everyone Is Afraid to Criticize Islam': Interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #21096 by Ole on February 7, 2007 at 2:50 pm

In the HARD talk interview she said that there are no atrocities among jews. I think she forgets Baruch Goldstein and what he did (killing 27 people in a mosque):
At that time of the holy month of Ramadan, there were many people who flocked the Abraham Mosque to perform their prayers. Goldstein passed two army checkpoints at the dawn of February 25, 1994 from the northeastern gate of the mosque near privy. That privy could be the reason why Goldstein decided on that gate because he, probably, received his contemplation about Arabs from the Rabbis of Kach in Kiryat Arab where the Arabs were described as the demons of the privy. [Talmud - Mas. Kiddushin 72a ''Shew me the Ishmaelites.'-'They are like the demons of the privy.'']

In US where she now lives there are also atrocities made by christians - for instance killing doctors who work at abort clinics.

Even if I disagree with a lot of what she say, she is brave. We must give her credit for that!

Ole

82. Tolerating intolerance is still this country's besetting sin

Comment #20613 by Ole on February 5, 2007 at 5:12 am

Fouad Boussetta said:
Better yet, read his recently released book, "While Europe Slept": it's excellent and very enlightening.

I have not read this book, but living in Norway, I have read some articles by Bawer. I don't like his tone.

Does he give any sources in his book?
Can you trust the statistics he gives?

I saw one comment about the book that made me not want to read it:
No footnotes, no endnotes, no bibliography--moreover, Bawer routinely paints the secular Baathist Saddam Hussein as part of the Islamist movement.

Is this true?

Ole

83. Benny Hinn examined

Comment #19816 by Ole on January 30, 2007 at 4:12 am

Enron has become a popular symbol of corporate fraud and corruption.

Why is it ok to go after "creatively planned accounting fraud" but not to go after Benny Hinn and "creatively planned faith fraud"?

Ole

84. Arguing for Atheism

Comment #19259 by Ole on January 26, 2007 at 1:29 am

Shermer's comments surprised me, especially after reading Skeptic magazine for so long and watching his comments on Penn and Tellers "Bullshit" episode about the Bible.

If he surprised some isn't that a good thing?

I like that we have people with different strategy. RD's and Sam Harris's direct method seems to work for some people. Dennett's and Shermer's more mild method for others.

Sometimes a "storm" can wake people up - but often a "mild breeze" has a better effect. ;-)

As some said here, Shermer has been debating a lot of strange people (Deepak Chopra, ID-people, etc.) - so he knows you can't use the same tactic all the time.

As a sceptic, I also like to question the claim that suicide bombers only "come from" religion.

Ole

85. The Bright Revolution

Comment #19043 by Ole on January 24, 2007 at 1:40 pm

Gay is an adjective meaning "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy"; however, in modern usage, gay usually refers to homosexual men or women. Gay sometimes also refers to the culture of homosexual men and women (as in "gay history"), to things perceived by others to be typical of gay people (as in "gay music"), or to same-sex relationships more generally (as in "gay marriage").

(from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay)

I think we should look closer to words that can get more of the atheist sentiment than "bright".

As others here I don't like "bright".

"Godfrey" is a new word - not easy to get going.

In the wiki article it seems that "gay" at least goes back to Getrude Stein in 1922. So, it was not really "a hijack" of a word in the 1970ies as some may think? It "grew" more slowly.

I never felt the need to come out of a "closet" as an atheist (like gay people have felt). Maybe in US that can be a strategy, but why be a "copycat" (copying the gay word-idea that is)? Copycat - in music that is never a good strategy - and I think this also goes for "the new atheist" movement.

If someone ask me about my belief I will keep using atheist (it is the same word in Norwegian, "ateist", while bright, "lys", is not). I can add - like Bertrand Russel, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett (the list goes on) - I'm an atheist!!

Ole

86. Intelligent design to feature in school RE lessons

Comment #18861 by Ole on January 23, 2007 at 9:24 am

Informed citizenship!

Here is a talk that Dennett gave at TED in 2006. It points out his proposal from "Breaking the Spell":
That we should have a curriculum where facts about all religions in the world are taught:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4987372252730586158

"Facts, facts about all religions, no values..."

Ole

87. Intelligent design to feature in school RE lessons

Comment #18802 by Ole on January 23, 2007 at 3:36 am

Luthien said: I can't imagine my old school (catholic) teaching any text by Richard Dawkins.

What about Bertrand Russell then?

Perhaps they could use some of his essays, like: Why I am Not a Christian

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell0.htm

Ole

88. Intelligent design to feature in school RE lessons

Comment #18783 by Ole on January 23, 2007 at 2:01 am

Daniel Dennett suggest some similar things in the interview with Bill Moyers.
For instance go to the end (at 49:10) "..if young muslims were taught about the history of Christianity.... and the history of atheism too!"

Yes, keep it in RE and out of science classes!

Ole

89. Unscientific American: US Almost Last in Understanding Evolution

Comment #18628 by Ole on January 22, 2007 at 5:44 am

How was this survey conducted?

Here is another one (found on BBC) that states:
Just under half of Britons accept the theory of evolution as the best description for the development of life, according to an opinion poll.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4648598.stm

Can that be true - why then is UK so "high" on the list above?

I can't really believe that there is a difference of almost 10% between Denmark and Norway in regards to question about evolution.


Ole

90. Unscientific American: US Almost Last in Understanding Evolution

Comment #18616 by Ole on January 22, 2007 at 4:28 am

Hm... maybe I should move to Iceland...?

Ole in Norway

91. Noam Chomsky Interview on Faith

Comment #18473 by Ole on January 21, 2007 at 5:36 am

In Darwin's Dangerous Idea, Daniel Dennett lays into Chomsky pretty heavily. I don't remember what for, exactly, besides being a dualist...

The problem of free will.... is a "mystery" to Noam..

According to Chomsky, all matter of human puzzlement can be sorted into "problems", which can be solved and "mysteries", which cannot.

Anyway, Noam is one of my heroes. That you have such a brave intellectual in US, as Chomsky, is IMO something you should be proud of.

This summer, I met some nice people from US in Bulgaria. They were very embarrassed by having Bush as president.
I had to agree, but I told them: You also have Noam Chomsky!

Ole

92. Secret Life of Brian

Comment #16663 by Ole on January 8, 2007 at 1:11 am

I saw the film in 1980 here in Norway. It was a private viewing, since the film was censored. A memorable event - one of my all time favourite movies.

In 1981 it was allowed for adults (over 18), and later for everyone.

We did not have a person like Mary Whitehouse over here, but we had a paragraph against blasphemy (as you in UK) and that was what the film censors used.

Strange to think about. Today the "Zeitgeist" has moved on and I don't think a film like that would be censored. But pehaps I'm wrong - a newspaper showed the Muhammed drawings and the editor had to have a body guard.

Ole

93. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)

Comment #16200 by Ole on January 5, 2007 at 1:04 pm

Happy New Year, David!

You wrote in your latest article:
If you destroy Christianity (which is your aim) then you will leave a spiritual and moral vacuum in Western Europe which will either be filled by a new fascism or Islam. Then you will find out for real the fact that all religions are not the same.

There are brave people in the world fighting against Islam - Richard Dawkins is not alone.
Take a look at this:

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

The clash that we are witnessing around the world is not a clash between religions. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality.

I won't quote all - but what she talks about is of course your monotheistic god from the bronze-age. She (like me) does not believe in Jahve, God or Allah. She, like Richard Dawkins, me, and most of us in this discussion, "went one god further". ;-)

Wafa Sultan, You really made my day!

Ole

94. Atheists challenge the religious right

Comment #16160 by Ole on January 5, 2007 at 5:35 am

Wafa Sultan, you made my day!

Webmaster, please put this on a link from the startpage. (It should not be "hidden" here)

Ole

95. If they preach the cause of the poor, they're my people

Comment #15861 by Ole on January 3, 2007 at 11:28 am

This anti-religious left has found its leader in the shape of Richard Dawkins and his book The God Delusion, which is just a gratuitous tirade against faith.

I see it again and again. Those that have religious faith and dislike TDG, have no arguments. Over here in Norway one guy called Dennett, "Dawkins disciple". Another said that TDG was like the argument a confirmand use. But he gave no examples. Did they read TDG at all?

As RD point out, we are all atheists when it comes to Thor, Amon Ra etc. How do Lawson classify all those people (including himself)?

I have never believed in the Jahve God (so I took it one step further). As others, I dislike the word atheist - but since we have no other yet (like the Gay people have) we have to use that word. But, I'm not part of an anti-religious left movement. RD is not my leader. I have never met him, only read some of his books. Right now I listen to RD and his wife on the AudioBook version of TDG: A new and easy way to "re-read" a good book - recommended!

Ole

96. Executing Saddam Hussein was an Act of Vandalism

Comment #15807 by Ole on January 3, 2007 at 5:52 am

Spot on Richard Dawkins!

Btw, it was dissapointing to hear the new Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's statement about the death penalty. As the South Korean former foreign minister he was used to capital punishment from his own country (last execution in 1997), so it was perhaps "no big thing" for him? (Let each country decide for themselves...)

Ole

97. How Old is the Grand Canyon? Park Service Won't Say

Comment #15432 by Ole on December 31, 2006 at 9:21 am

Speaking of geology....
When they started the voyage of the Beagle in 1831, the captain, Fitz-Roy, gave Darwin volume one of Charles Lyell's Principles of Geology, which explained landforms as the outcome of gradual processes over huge periods of time.
On their first stop ashore at St. Jago, Darwin found that a white band high in the volcanic rock cliffs consisted of baked coral fragments and shells. This matched Lyell's concept of land slowly rising or falling, giving Darwin a new insight into the geological history of the island.

Here is a quote from Darwin's Autobiography:
The very first place which I examined, namely St. Jago in the Cape de Verde islands, showed me clearly the wonderful superiority of Lyell's manner of treating geology, compared with that of any other author, whose works I had with me or ever afterwards read.

Ole

98. How Old is the Grand Canyon? Park Service Won't Say

Comment #15288 by Ole on December 30, 2006 at 7:02 am

suspend its belief in geology

????

How stupid is it possible to be?

Have they really started to "suspend belief" in science?

Geology now - who's next?

Physics or mathematics, or?

Ole

99. God's Enemies Are More Honest Than His Friends

Comment #15125 by Ole on December 29, 2006 at 3:57 am

Sam, good article!

I don't know if you look in here, so maybe I should post this on your website or send you an email... anyway here we go..

You said: September 11th, 2001, the day that nineteen pious men showed our pious nation just how beneficial religious certainty can be.

(I won't go into all the conspiracy theories about 911, but only look at the hijackers.)

• Do we really know what happened with those men?
  
• Should we not question this also?
  
• What do we really know about Mohamed Atta and the other hijackers?
  
• What are urban legends?
  

100. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)

Comment #14313 by Ole on December 22, 2006 at 2:25 am

David said:
Sorry Ole I cannot reasonably be expected to discuss your Granny's version of God as an old man in the sky with a white beard.

Of course not. I was only trying be a bit personal - it was only one example of faith that I have met.

Probably among the people in your church you can find that (childish version) as well?

I'm trying to understand your position. I don't find it coherent what you say. You seem to believe both in a very abstract god (close to Einstein and Spinoza) and a personal one (incarnated through Jesus).

As I've told you several times, I admire your effort here. I also understand that you are alone in one position and the rest is opposing you. It is easy to feel that we are trying to frame you.

Rest asure I'm not! Understanding thing is much more interesting.

It is rather seldom (at least for me) to meet people who really can defend their belief. Most christians I talk to, seem to shy away from questions about god. I often get the impression that they are lazy or only believe in belief.

Apropos "belief in belief". Have you read Dennett's book "Breaking the Spell"?

In the chapter "Belief in Belief", he talks about the lonly mountain climber hanging in a rope crying for help:
"Hallooo, hallooo! Can anybody help me?"
- a mighty voice suddenly replies:
"Yes, my son, I can help you. Take your knife and cut the rope!".
The climber takes out his knife, and then he stops and thinks and thinks.
The then cries out:
"Can anybody else help me?"

I'm sure there are many people like that, who only believe in belief. I also think you are not one of them. But, perhaps from time to time, you are at least doubting the belief in god?

To you, David, and the rest in this discussion:

God Jul!

..as we say over here in Norway (see my explanation of "Jul" over in the RD Forum)

Ole