Comments by NoLongerHaveBelief
51. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #16857 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 9, 2007 at 8:27 am
>>Comment #16723 by fonex_86<<
A great post fonex! I couldn't agree with you more!
When I was 11, my parents made me go to the Christadelphians on Sundays. We attended for 6 weeks. Each week we'd be lectured for 2 hours. Then we were told to go home and memorize a page from the Bible.
My younger brother [who is junior by 4 years], also came. When we'd return, the following week, both he and I would sit in the vast-circle of God-botherers, [with our heads down!], reciting the quadswallop that we'd remembered the week before.
WHAT A COMPLETE LOAD OF TOSH!
The point is here, what can be learnt from the Bible? Erm. Intolerance. Misunderstandings. Vague supernatural references. A misanthropic God. Killing. Ritual Rape. Infanticide. Slave Beating.
Oh yes. Truly fantastic in wonderous message, is the Bible.
I am on chapter 5 of The God Delusion. I can't see what Theists are moaning about. I fully concur with Professor Dawkins. No God who truly cared for us, would allow little children to die. No God who truly loved us, would dream up wonderous ways of dying such as, Ebola, HIV/ AIDS, cancer or any of the thousands of other nasty diseases, we seem so prone to.
And if he is there [my doubt is now at 99%], then he isn't fit for worship. You wait until I shovel off my mortal coil. I'll tell him what I think of his Bible, his nasty hatred for us as a species and how I now give the Devil my full support - seeing as he hardly killed anybody in the Bible, yet God seems to get some kind of thrill-kill out of watching mankind dying.
I think the Theistic God [if he exists] must be vermin.
52. God-less
Comment #16753 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 8, 2007 at 1:11 pm
>>Comment #16457 by jburdoo<<
>>As Bruce Monson once said, I believe in life BEFORE death. Any atheist who thinks the same will certainly want to make this life the best possible one rather than waste it killing and raping... it is people who think they will live forever, rather, who waste their lives. Praying instead of doing, for example.<<
Excellent! This is one of the best paragraphs I've read on these forums. All atheists agree with this sentiment.
Truth is, Theists are not only pessimists, but also doommongers. They want the end of the world, as revealed in the book of Revelations, to come - accompanied with all the deaths of the unworthy and unGodly - just so they can spout off about being right!
I recently explained to a believer, who is really close to me, how us Atheists value life far more than any believers. I explained how most Atheists would likely believe the death penalty would be wrong - under any circumstances. [i.e. as evil filth Saddam was, I believe he should have been locked up for the rest of his natural; murder is never right and our troops are in even more danger now].
Do theists think life is as precious? Methinks not! Now why is it, every time a new feed starts, somebody like this Gimlebengloin comes along and hijacks the forum? I have no evidence, but I'm guessing that somebody is entering these forums with many different aliases? Maybe Josh could look into this. [As if the poor bloke ain't got enough to do?!].
What Gimbengloin conveniently forgets, is that one cannot find morality from the Bible. Try. Both old and new testaments are littered with filth. Yes. There are the better parts - and as Professor Dawkins has already stated, Jesus was a big improvement. He aint perfect though.
Matthew 15:4 is a good example. There are many others - and every time you put this to Theists, they weasle out of the content with either outright lies, or great sayings such as "I have no problem with Jesus's words!" - a direct comment I received off one of them!
NO PROBLEM?! Go and read Matthew 15:4. I have a BIG problem with anyone espousing murdering children - as Jesus did in this passage. [Another load of crap I received from another God-botherer, was that "It went back to the Old Testament". Oh right! So it's okay then to murder? Or is it? What happened to the 10 commandments then?
Mind. Moses was a murderer, yet believers would have us believe that his ideals were not lies - oh no, the Bush told him how to direct mankind!
Ludicrous beyond imagination! Yes, David Icke really is the 2nd coming... as Was Joe Smith a few years back... the new prophet who launched the Mormon religion... only nobody else could see the Golden Plates, because the Angel was angry! BAH HUMBUG!
Sure. There could be supernatural creator. It's doubtful though. I don't believe. I give it a 1% possibility at best.
As Jefferson said [to paraphrase]: "...For surely if God exists, he would be more open to reason, than blind faith"
He was a clever man. Unlike Ted Haggard. I bet professor Dawkins was secretly smiling when he heard the news that Haggard had been dancing naked with the Devil. Or was it a masseur? I can't actually remember, Theists lie so much.
Keep up the good work in here Atheists. Although the loons come in here, none of their arguments have swayed me back to belief. I'm glad I finally managed to grab reality. We have one TRUE life and we should make the best of it, eh?
53. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #15747 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 2, 2007 at 12:36 pm
>>David Robertson<<
David, David, David. Tut tut!
I do wish David you'd refrain from (a) Ad Hominem attacks - something you've accused me of by stating I've made this 'personal', when I asked what was evil with me being an Atheist and (b) Refrain from making judgements about my understanding of posts in here please. I'm doing fine. I've never claimed to be the brightest person in here. Indeed, I am a learner. I am capable of learning - something you seem unable to do - as you KNOW that God did it all!
"JESUS JESUS JESUS LA-LA-LA-LA! I can't hear you Atheists!" This is what you are coming across as, I'm afraid to say. You won't even consider the possibility of there being no God. It took me a long time to finally find Atheism. It took me 20 years of hard thinking - I am very secure with this position. Of course, if you could demonstrate God to any of us, we would all be delighted to be beievers. Sadly, this will not happen.
>>So you didn't understand it either! That's what I thought…<<
Please refrain from insinuating that I am some sort of thicko. This is the umpteenth time you have resorted to sarcastic attacks against us Atheists - and from a man supposedly representing God, it is become weary and tiresome. It's also not very clever.
I'd be a LIAR if I said I understood EVERY word of Tjorborn's original posting. Yes, some of it I am still researching and looking up. I got the gist of it though. I copy and paste many Atheist postings in here - study them - and try to learn. I do NOT have any intention of telling you what I did or didn't understand - because you have an agenda to piecemeal all Atheist's words with your derogatory tone. You're not here for debate. You're here to stir up trouble and generally upset Atheists. You have no honourable intentions with your visits. You're not playing by Jesus's rules. When will you turn the other cheek - and discard your anger? You Sir, are ANGRY with Atheists - and in particular, with Professor Dawkins. I think he must have hit some sore point with your beliefs - but you can't admit it, because you've invested a life time into it. That's the truth, isn't it? You're afraid. Afraid he could actually be right.
If you truly believe in God and you're truly a Christian, you really should start showing some better manners in here. You are extremely rude, (and I've apologised in the past for things I may have said - you NEVER apologise), extremely sarcastic (a low form of wit) and your rabblings make no sense to rationalists.
I was a Christian, but I couldn't live with the Contradictory knowledge of the Bible any longer - I don't believe any sane man could. Indeed, the great Professor Dawkins has opened my eyes. I find him much more credible than the Bible or any religious sect for that matter. You must admit that even YOU don't really know if your Lord exists? Sure, the Earth is beautiful. I can see the reasons for belief. It ain't necessarily so, though, is it?
When will you start bringing some logic into these forums? I can concede in a notion of a supreme being - all Atheists can. You're not doing a good job of demonstrating your God's existence at all, I'm afraid. Your mind is closed. I and My fellow Atheists minds' are open - to the possibility of a God and to the eternal question of existence. I've visited your website and I'm afraid I'm very displeased with the mindset in there. You seem to make Atheists out to be Satan incarnates with Professor Dawkins as some sort of mythological Atheist God that we all adore and worship. You are extremely deluded and you clearly demonstrate everything that the Professor has written in his latest work The God Delusion!
David, you also conveniently forget that the Bible you so dearly cling to is littered with contradictions. Now, you clearly have a decent mind, so I shan't suggest or be sarcastic in tone, when I ask - do you understand logic?
Logic is wonderful. Logic answers questions. It is said, that if one arrives at a contradiction in thinking or a theory, then one has arrived at an illogical error. The Bible is full of them.
Consider this please, David: You claim (I don't know how, but assuming you use the Bible for the source of such claims) that God is all-loving, all-powerful and all-knowing.
Can you not see the problematic contradictions we have here?
God creates man in his image. Except he creates Gays, who are to be condemned. Yet he had to have known before-hand, who was to be Gay and who was to be straight. He has the power then, to not create Gays, yet he still goes ahead and creates them. The supernatural elegance of his Gay creations is something to be ridiculed, banned and forbidden - by your Bible's standard. This is something you can't white-wash with fancy words (as you have been doing so far) or with fanciful polemic vocabulary.
God then decides that women should be 2nd-class citizens. They should suffer in childbirth (because of original sin?! PLEASE!) How can an all-knowing, all-loving God EVER be forgiven for condemning all women for what Eve did? HUH! That makes sense! He then has some plebian write down words of prejudice in the Bible such as:
"It is not permitted for women to speak in church."
This is clearly not the works of a supernatural God. It is clearly the prejudiced hands of mankind, centuries ago. Same with the Gay issue. Mankinds intolerance of homosexuals, centuries ago and written down as the law of God.
We're told killing is wrong. It is one of ten commandments. Yet the Bible is littered with killing and ethnic cleansing. Killing is even allowed, in the New Testament. Is it right, or is it wrong? Could this be the intolerance of savages, thousands of years ago, yet again, emerging and favouring their particular sect?
Can you NOT see this? Can you NOT understand this problem David? How will you wriggle out of these problems this time? You've not answered directly any questions asked of you. I'd like some clear English explanations, without Bible quotes which 'seem to be open to intepretation' or some other scape-goat.
And I am correct about numbers. They are an abstraction. You could say God abstracts with Maths - fine, no problem. Numbers don't exist as a real entity though, do they? If so, then demonstrate to me here please - maybe a Theist might be able to teach me something. You can't teach me anything with that Bible though. It's garbage. Utter tripe. You should be ashamed of yourself, defending the Bible. Yeah, it's got it's lovely Goldilocks side - but it has a dark side, as well you know. Or do you?
Tell us Atheists what bad parts of the Bible are right please? We'd be very interested to hear that. Especially stimulating would be how you explain homicide, genocide, infanticide, ritual rape, homophobia, sexism and all the other attrocities committed in the name of your Lord. We'd love to know how you feel about this.
54. What are you optimistic about? Why?
Comment #15716 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 2, 2007 at 8:24 am
I like it Tintern!
Furthermore, Atheists are optimists.
Theists are pessimists. Why?
Because theists want the end of the world, with all its fire and brimstone, to come! Then they can say how right they were and condemn us un-Godly Atheists to the pit, where they think we quite rightly belong!
Very sad. A Believer, close to me, recently rejected my theory, that most people, regardless of belief/ lack of belief, are good, honest, people.
"Are they?" was the sarcastic reply I got.
Of course they are! Whilst we do get a few evil fruit-loops, going around murdering prostitutes, most people, regardless of belief, just want to keep their heads down, pay their bills, avoid the law and lead a good, productive life. The fact is, we are not all out at night killing and fighting each other.
Despite the great challenges that face our species during the 21st Century, I'm optimistic that we can face them - if we decide to grow up and see each other as allies and not bitter enemies. I'm sure too, that as Professor Dawkins states above, science will aid us in our battle for survival.
Now we just need a pessimistic Theist to state that science has cause our problems....
55. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #15713 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 2, 2007 at 8:01 am
Hi Theo.
Thanks for that. Again, though I admire your belief, you fail to see the contradictions that are within the Bible. A common cop-out for Believers, is that the Old Testament doesn't apply. This is not so. Jesus quite clearly stated that the old laws - hence the OT - still applied, which is sad, because as Professor Dawkins has stated, Jesus was a big improvement upon the Old Testament!
I can understand why you believe. Indeed, I went running today for the first time in 7 years. Although I've built a lot of muscle, I want to cut my fat. It was hard! LOL! I didn't last long!
But the view was glorious up in those hills! I stood there, in the rain and the wind (which I love - I'm not a summer person) - and the beauty of nature is truly breathtaking! Again, I can see why you believe.
Please understand Theo, that I would NOT say you are wrong. For myself, I'm convinced that Jesus lived, (I know there is an argument against this, but it seems to illogical to know so much about a man, who was said not to exist!) and I'm convinced he was a good man.
Indeed, Jesus himself said "Why callst me Lord?" Stating infact, that he was just a man. I can accept and understand some of his teachings. I can't subscribe to miracles. This pushes things too far and I've no doubt that many of the 'miracles' are either myth or can be logically explained. Is it a coincidence that the Egyptians supposedly had the Argha Noa festival (i.e. Noah's Ark?). Methinks the Bible is a combinations of truths, lies, myths, legends and borrowings from other religions.
It is said that if one arrives at a contradiction in thinking, then the result is an illogical error and faulty thinking.
God is said to have made us in his/ our image. Thus homosexuals are made in his image too. HOW can God create homosexuals, yet have them so condemned in the Bible? That is illogical and makes no sense.
As an Atheist, the only difference between you and I, is that you still subscribe to the Abrahamic God - whereas you'd laugh at Zeus, Thor, Wotan, Baal, Vishnu or any of the plethora of Gods that have been worshipped. As Professor D has stated - we just go one God further!
I can conceive that in the future, science will answer this question finally. We'll either discover God, hiding in some corner of the Galaxy, or we'll finally have the mystery of life uncovered. This doesn't make me agnostic. Not at all. I have a tiny room in my thinking that allows for the slight possibility of God existing.
I doubt seriously if he does. And further, the question we should all ask is, do we need him? Haven't we all just achieved certain goals on our own merit without his Godly intervention?
I would also add, that in the Bible, Atheists are classed as fools. Whilst I wouldn't class myself any where near the elite scientists who don't believe, I'm certainly not stupid! Now logic and common sense must surely tell us that if God were to exist after all, I doubt he'd condemn good, honest Atheists, for not believing! Surely, an omnipotent God would be more interested in the life one has led? I couldn't imagine a good God condemning a man/ woman/ unicorn (!) for that 'crime'.
That makes no sense either. Have a great 2007 Theo - and keep those Bible quotes coming, though they make no sense to non-believers, they are interesting!
56. William Crawley, BBC Belfast, names Richard Dawkins as Person of the Year 2006
Comment #15601 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 1, 2007 at 2:25 pm
I'd say Professor Dawkins is definitely the person of the year for 2006!
I've not known him to be rude. Quite the opposite, infact. Many Theists enter this forum and complain and moan and launch into many varied Ad Hominem attacks. Indeed, the Professor is always gracious and never complains, moans or winges - infact, he never feels hard done by.
Contrast that with many a Theist in here... especially that 'loving God man' David A Robertson. He IS rude. VERY RUDE and SARCASTIC.
Well done Professor D! Keep up the good work in 2007! I've already bought both my Father and Father-in-law copies of TGD - and they love it too!
57. Not Yet The Majority But No Longer Silent
Comment #15530 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 1, 2007 at 4:43 am
>>comment 15483 LDmiller<<
Hi LD! PLEASE don't associate ALL of England and the English with the 'national' sport of England being the 'slagging' of America!
Martha doesn't speak for myself. Or ANY member of my known family on either side - in-laws inclusive. We are all VERY comfortable with our American relationship.
Perhaps Martha would benefit from a trip to Cambridge to see the American war-memorial we have installed there, in honour and memory of the slain American troops during the 20th Century?
No LD. I love America. Religious or otherwise. Many of us do. Those that profess hatred of America are likely jealous or misguided. The current Iraq war is a different issue altoghether, and anyone foolish enough to make the link from the Iraq war to hatred of America is in a bad place. For instance, Professor Dawkins no-doubt has grave concerns over the Iraq war - but I seriously doubt he has ANY hatred for America - indeed, he lived there for some time. He, like me, most likely adores America and Americans.
All the best for 2007.
58. A Christmas thunderbolt for the arch-enemy of religion
Comment #15525 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 1, 2007 at 3:48 am
I'd just like to wish everybody in here a happy new year - and especially to Professor Dawkins, whose latest work The God Delusion is a truly brilliant work! I am thoroughly enjoying this book and would like to congratulate the Professor for a fine work. A work so good, that Theists seem attracted to this website in order to blub at Atheists about how we are wrong and how evil Richard is! HA HA HA!
I'm on chapter 5 of TGD and I'd like to point something out here: John Cornwell a.k.a 'God' needs to read the TGD again. Because if anybody needs his consciousness raising - it is John Cornwell.
If I were to impersonate God, it'd go something along these lines:
"Hi Professor Dawkins! I no I don't actually exist, but I love your new work! In particular, I like the part about raising consciousness. I found your philosophy, concerning feminism inspiring. You see, I think I've been a naughty non-existent God, for the past 6,000 years - erm - sorry, 4.5 Billion years, (Time goes so fast for me, I kind of forgot how old I am!), you see, I've made a few mistakes. First, I should have read TGD in the future and then gone back in time and re-wrote scripture. See, I created Homosexuals, but condemned them. That was wrong of me. See, I created women, but treated them as 2nd class sub-servants, when infact, I should have viewed them as equals - yes, infact I shouldn't have said women should not be allowed to talk in church. I said slavery was okay, but I shouldn't have. I shouldn't have allowed the beating of slaves. See, I said murder was wrong, but at other times, I said it was okay. That was wrong of me. See, I allowed people to be beaten to death for collecting sticks on Sunday, when actually, it was probably wrong of me to allow it. See, I designed lethal diseases and allowed catastrophes such as 9/11, Tsunamis, Volcanic eruptions, Crusades, Inquistions, witch-hunts and the dark-ages to take place without bothering to intervene. I am sorry I am so lazy. I was busy, stuck on level-10 of the latest playstation game. See, I am omnipotent, but I get bored, even though I don't exist. That's why I created Flu, Cancer, Heart-disease, Progeria, Leprosy, Parkinsons, Dementia and all the other lovely diseases upon Earth - because when you get them and suffer, it entertains me. Sorry to be so cruel, but I can't help myself. Much like when you Humans drown ants as kids. I find it funny."
"So in conclusion, Richard, your work is great! It has raised my conscience a bit. But I think I shall hide away for the next 13.7 Billion years, until I've dealt with my shame. Sorry for the confusion."
Hmmm. Not too different from B. Bolling's postings. I wonder, no, B.Bolling couldn't be Asana in disuise again, could it? Or that other loon who was Asana in disguise? I could well be wrong here, but I do get the same kind of feeling from the postings of B.Bolling.
"Oh! By the way professor! God here again. Sorry. I've made an evil caricature named SATAN. He is currently busy on Earth, disguised as John Cornwell. I think he works for the Times or something. He is quite unwell. Don't for one instance believe his writings in the Times. I didn't write them. Mind you, I don't exist, so it makes no difference."
HA HA HA HA! Have a great 2007. ESPECIALLY Professor Dawkins and his hard-working assistant Josh. Oh DEAR! I HAVEN'T upset Theists have I? Too bad. You lot upset us Atheists with your contradictory, no-evidence-for-a-Supernatural Deity or any of the ludicrous claims you make. The Bible is better than the Viz for a laugh though. In a strange kinda-way. The Moral's upheld by Theists; you should be ashamed of yourselves, you really should. I wonder how much of the Old and New Testaments have actually been read, by Theists? I was a 'Christian' - then I read the Bible. How could I not have seen how DELUDED I was?
Comment #15310 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 30, 2006 at 9:35 am
To add further, JohnC, as stated by Professor Dawkins in The God Delusion, if any science could conclusively prove the existence of God, do we all not think Theists would jump on the bandwagon?!
Of course they would! Any scientific evidence that could demonstrate such a being would immediately be pronounced around the world, to back up the ludicrous claims of the believers.
Similarly, when it's not clear, science is somehow 'beneath' the supreme-being, he, being, of-course, able to fool us and evade science as he supposedly designed the lot!
Hmmm. I find it odd that 'God' designed so many apes, monkeys, bonobos, marmosets and the plethora of evolutionary primates we've now discovered. Is this some sort of sick joke?
'I'm gonna confuse my creations! hee-hee!'.
Barmy. Pure and simple barminess!
Happy New Year to you all. I include believers in that statement. I really do hope everybody makes 2007 a good year.
60. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #15308 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 30, 2006 at 9:28 am
Theo Said:
>>Anyone mature enough to curse his parents is mature enough to take the punishment.<<
You CANNOT be serious?! You would have adults put to death, because Jesus okay-s it?! What is wrong with the mindset of a believer?
Is the Death penalty okay or is it wrong? You seem to agree with me - that it is wrong - but you conveniently forget the 10 commandments, which are in direct conflict with
Matthew 15:4: "He that curseth thy Father or Mother shall die the death".
This directly conflicts with
"Thou Shalt Not kill." One of the most important and well-remembered commandments (we'll forget the nonesense about not working on the Sabbath, eh? - or putting men to death for collecting sticks on Sunday).
Furthermore, we now live in the 21st Century. Many of us, do not agree with the death penalty. I don't, for starters. Would you concede Theo, that my Morals are perhaps higher than your God, you so lovingly worhship?
What was wrong with Jesus when he stated that - by your words - adults are allowed to be put to death - if they curse their parents? Complete lunacy.
I can't believe you actually believe your own words. Indeed, I'd say that you are a nice person, deluded into belief. I used to be deluded too. Now I am looking for reality.
It's not in the Bible. I can see no correlation between the Bible and reality. None whatsoever. Defending the obvious contradictions in the Bible is no recourse for belief.
Sure, their could be a supernatural creator. I find the idea preposterous - but he/she/it could exist. Is such a being needed though?
In The God Delusion - which I'm happy to say, is a fine work - Professor Dawkins states many of the reasons I no longer believe. I have little room for God in my life - and absolutely no room for an unrealistic book named the Bible. I'm right with Professor Dawkins on his 'scale' of belief - I'm a 6. That God is a most unlikely possibility.
Theo mate, you are going to have to come up with something better than the Bible to prove a supernatural deity. It's quite evil. It's gay-hating, woman-hating, racist-inciting rubbish. I'd say the Bible the is worst work of fiction/ mythology and outright lies ever written by mankind!
Mind. The Bible says, beating slaves and owning slaves is okay. Hmmm. I need a slave. I'm sick of washing-up. Maybe I should re-convert, eh?
61. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #15014 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 28, 2006 at 6:16 am
>>Comment #15009 by Mark Taunton<<
All your postings Mark are well-mannered; something maybe a few Atheists and nearly every other Theist in here do not possess.
However, your only proof of God's existence is the Bible. Something you are clearly well-versed in. You should therefore know that there are many evil connotations within the Bible, particulary, but not exclusively, in the Old Testament.
Do you not therefore understand, that former beleivers, such as myself, find such texts to be FILTH?
God creates Homosexuals. Yet condmens them. God creates women, but condemns them to eternal suffering during child-birth and 2nd-class citizenship. God orders the deaths of millions within the Bible 'and it's okay 'cos God told us to do it'. It just doesn't cut water with us Atheists, I'm afraid. We find it very man-hating.
The Bible states that Atheists are fools. Would you consider, Einstein, Hawking, Madame Curie, Bill Gates, Thomas Edison, Professor Dawkins all as fools?
Furthermore, why is it that we no longer witness burning bushes, miracles and all the other spiritually-induced fables of the Bible in our modern times? Could it be, that such events could not have occured? Could it not be beyond the realm of possibility that you are basing your whole moral-life-system on a book that could be wrong?
I find the Bible abhorrent. I suspect many Atheists do also. It doesn't provide answers, indeed, the Genesis fairytale is quite wrong. If the Bible can be wrong about the origin of Earth, how the hell can it be right about anything else?
Genesis is wrong. The Bible is evil. You Christians are fond of cherry-picking the nice parts out, yet you conveniently forget the bad parts. Stoning people to death for collecting sticks on Sunday? Not allowing women to speak in church? You think this is a GOOD thing?
The Bible is a joke. I find it offensive. I can no longer believe in God. All we witness around us, are natural processes' in a natural universe. I'd not question your mental capacity - as others have done in here - that is quite wrong. I would ask you to consider that maybe the Bible is wrong as a tool for leading a good, productive, life.
Such thinking allows people such as godhatesfags.com to prosper.
62. Merry Mithras
Comment #15012 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 28, 2006 at 5:49 am
Hi Robert.
Interesting point of view. What would be your source for this, please?
I am not qualified to comment either way, but Wikipedia states that the Roman God Mithras was worshipped BEFORE Christ up to around the 5th Century A.D. It also states that Mithras ascended up to heaven in the year 208 B.C.
Unless you know better, that it is. Otherwise, what you say is correct. Please highlight where we are all going wrong, if we are. Any new material is highly valued by Atheists such as myself.
63. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #14368 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 22, 2006 at 6:41 am
>>Comment #14301 by David A Robertson<<
>>could you let me know what you learnt from Torbjorn's post?<<
Nope. Because you don't want to learn, you just want to preach about the Lord-ah.
>>Comment #14316 by BillySands<<
>>That David doesnt understand what he is arguing about?<<
Billy has answered for me. You'd have us believe that the Lord-ah, would condmen us all, despite us Atheists being exactly as we were 'created' by your Lord-ah.
You'll never understand why Atheists exist. Maybe it is because we've decided we are above the FILTH that is the Bible?
According to the website Link Billy S so graciously provided, your Lord-ah killed around 2.3 million people in the Bible. Whereas the 'evil' one - Satan - only managed 10!
Hmmm. Maybe we should be giving Satan our full support? He seems more of a Humanist than God and Hell seems more interesting than rolling around on a cloud proclaiming about how wonderful we all are.
Comment #14346 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 22, 2006 at 5:54 am
>>Comment #14281 by peterg123<<
>>Richard, I put it to you once more, especially as an academic. Is their any public platform where you are going to congratulate or encourage young Muslims to act as your forum encourages young Christians? I suspect the answer is no but I am waiting to be pleasantly suprised that your rationalist courage and conviction extends to those who do not offer the other cheek, but offer to slap you, hard.<<
Big brave tough words from a believer! Tell you what, Peter.
I and all my fellow Atheists (I can't vouch for Professor Dawkins), will shout off about Muslims... IF...
The pope and all Christian clergy in the UK and the USA PUBLICLY state that all other faiths, including Islam are wrong and misguided.
You ain't going to do this either. So don't jump on the Professor's back, claiming he is a coward. Get the Archbishop of Canterbury to publicly denounce Islam and I will stand on the streets of Birmingham (close to where I live), holding a placard stating Islam is wrong.
Not all theories can be true. Only 1 theory can be true. Therefore, only 1 religion could be true. So how do you know which one it is? Are Christians right? Are you going to denounce Hindi, Islam, Buddhism et al?
You accuse the Professor of cowardice. Yet you are asking him to do something you nor your Christian religious leaders would do. How dare you. If you'd read Professor Dawkins latest book PROPERLY, you'd know that he denounces faith in general.
Further, I'm quite flustered, in that you admit to wanting to cause frustration and ridicule amongst these forums?
Why is this? Didn't Jesus say you should turn the other cheek? Didn't Jesus command you to love and not to hate? Didn't Jesus command you to be tolerant and respectful for all? Do you not see the contradiction in your thinking? You despise Atheists, for being exactly how your God created us?
I'd check your mental capacity. You obviously are not too far removed in attitude from the 9/11 bombers. They were the most intolerant of all believers on Earth. You despise Atheists and turn your noses up at us - as if doing so, will reserve you a place in Heaven. How evil is that philosophy? Shouldn't you believers fix what is wrong with yourselves, before jumping on Atheists?
65. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #14138 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 21, 2006 at 9:08 am
>>Comment #14086 by BillySands<<
A fascinating link Billy. Thanks!
Hmmm. Thought God was all-loving though? Hmmm. On second reflection, maybe we should be giving Satan our full support?
After all, he is obviously more of a Humanist than God and rolling around naked in the flames, seems more interesting than flying around on a cloud playing a harp!
Before you jump on my above statement Mr.Robertson, I am only joking. Christians like a joke don't they? Or am I being a literalist again?
I don't think Christians have a sense of humour. Unless of course, you consider what a laugh the Old Testament is.
66. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #14136 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 21, 2006 at 9:00 am
>>Comment #13990 by Torbjörn Larsson <<
What an awesome posting! I LOVE what I can learn from fellow Atheists!
I'd like to add to this, if I may Torbjorn:
>>That solipsism can't be ruled out at this stage<<
I think this is true! David certainly believes in himself.
Sorry Martin. I shall try not error in future!
67. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #13949 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 20, 2006 at 8:28 am
And you will wait for eternity Billy.
Because, everytime science makes a new discovery, the God-botherers will say " God Did that! "
In this manner, the likes of the deluded David Robertson can stall us forever, without actually providing any proof to their lavish and grandiose claims.
I too, in many of my arguments with the deluded Mr.Robertson, have asked for proof of any of his claims. He's never done this.
The best he could come up with was the order of the universe and mathematics. Mathematics, as I have correctly stated, is a product of abstraction within men's minds. The universe, is not as ordered as David would have us believe.
At one point, he tried to pull the wool-over-my-eyes, by suggesting that Stephen Hawking thought that the universe had been 'fine-tuned'. Indeed, I've read Professor Hawkings works and he does not mean that the universe has been fine tuned by the hand of the Supernatural. If I understand correctly, he is discussing the natural processes' of the universe and its intricate, delicately-balanced workings.
No. You won't get a straight answer from Robertson. He is an atypical believer, incapable of even thinking that there may be no God. He won't even consider the possibility that there is no such being. So our arguments are a waste of time and falling upon deaf ears. He is actually here with a different agenda: To upset as many Atheists as possible. In this manner he can confirm what he knows not to be true (i.e. That God exists) and then bring this evidence back to his flock. He wants us upset. How typically arrogant and pious. How typically intolerant of a believer. Why doesn't he just turn his cheek and forgive us for our ignorance instead of parading these forums with his lousy sarcasm?
68. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #13943 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 20, 2006 at 7:50 am
Right with you Down_Under.
Theists seem to think that Atheists are cynical, for rejecting supernatural belief.
Infact, I'd argue that Atheists view life with more wonder because we see this existence as the only one .
I'm certain, that if we can survive this century, as a species, there may well come a time when we are almost God-Like ourselves.
We'll be able to cure or eradicate disease. We'll be able to extend our lives vastly. We'll be able to transfer our minds into new bodies or complete replica bodies, we have on standby. We'll become almost if not completely immortal.
Science fiction at present. Though this is entirely possible. And if we become immortal through our science, where will God be then?
Just pure conjecture this, but healthy in optimism! Atheists are optimists. Theists are pessimists. They want the end of the world to come, so they can shout off about how right they were, all along.
69. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #13940 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 20, 2006 at 7:39 am
Hello Martin! Many thanks!
David Roberston believes in God
But I'd rather believe in the character Bod
Jesus was born, so I get presents
But I'm an Atheist and so won't get to heaven!
Sorry for any confusion to anybody. Martin has helped me fix it! Thanks!
70. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #13939 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 20, 2006 at 7:29 am
>>Comment #13935 by MartinSGill <<
Thanks so much, Martin! And I always enjoy your postings!
I'll try what you said and maybe I can eliminate some of the obvious confusion I've caused.
Mind. It's not a patch on the outright lies and complete fallacies that David Robertson espouses.
Thanks Martin.
71. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #13931 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 20, 2006 at 6:21 am
Furthermore, Down_under, I can't believe people will defend the FILTH that is the Bible.
READ THE LOT; it's not just full of nice parts. It has rape, murder, death, child-rape, beating of slaves, intolerance for women and gays, other tribes, cutting off of foreskins and on and on.
The Old Testament is great read, if you like killing. Particularly funny, is the way Christ-followers state that the New Testament replaces the old. Again, this is a myth and a lie. The New Testament has passages that state the old laws still stand. So the justified murders and rapes can continue on in the new era.
TRULY appalling; that anybody can believe the Bible is true. It's an outdated, man-hating book. It does not provide an individual with the proper tools for living one's life.
Indeed, a believer I am very close to me, recently referred to a homosexual I know as:
"One of them bloody queers".
TRULY outstanding in love and tolerance, this statement, from a CHRISTIAN was.
And today, on SKY NEWS, a former priest has been gaoled for MOLESTING KIDS over many years. Some believer, eh?
>>Comment #13886 by Mark Taunton on December 20, 2006 at 12:40 am
Sorry if this seems "loony", but the impression I've received is that the perpetrators of 9/11 claimed Allah as their God and the Quran as their holy book, rather than Yahweh and the Bible...?<<
A GREAT statement this was. Above the heads of the believers though, who will go to any lengths to make us believe that there is this fairy-tale wonderland, awaiting those who believe in God and follow the Bible. You CHRISTADELPHIANS in here, should take a quick net-visit to www.godhatesfags.com becaue you will see what happens when idiots follow the Bible TO THE LETTERS WRITTEN DOWN.
72. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #13925 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 20, 2006 at 6:10 am
>>Comment #13903 by David A Robertson<<
>>So I guess before Pythagoras there were no numbers in the universe. I guess all the astrophysicists and cosmologists will be astounded at your discovery! Perhaps you should share with them that mathematical numbers are just figments of their imagination. I must admit it is going to be difficult for me to prove God exists to someone who does not even thinks numbers exist.<<
We aren't communicating effectively. You think you're being clever, but you're actually demonstrating your lack of understanding of Athiests and what Atheism stands for.
The plain fact IS that NUMBERS DO NOT EXIST in anything other than a Human Abstraction. Yes. You and I both realise that 2 + 2 in theory equals 4. Yes in reality 2 apples, with 4 apples equals 4 apples.
But Mathematics is STILL a product of Human invention. Numbers DON'T exist in reality - as say you and I or the planet Venus. PROVE to me that Mathematics is anything other than an abstraction, please. If I am wrong about this, I'll concede a little; however, proving Mathematics is more than an abstraction is still not evidence of your God.
I also don't need a lesson on 'Nettiquette'. I realise that upper-case letters would be construed as shouting - however I'm limited to this little box and can't fit in Italics. However, please do consider every LARGE typed word as ITALICS.
>>I am sorry that you feel the need to personalize this. I never said that you were evil. I spoke about the evil of atheism. I believe that the philosophy of atheism will lead to oppression, intolerance, disorder and chaos.<<
YOU are the one who personalizes every statement. You particularly like SARCASM. By DEFAULT, you ARE saying I'm EVIL - because I am an ATHEIST! You TRULY do not understand Atheism at all. I've dispensed with God - because the Bible (yes - I've read it, thus I'm Atheist), is EXTREMELY DISTURBING. There's no other way you can get around the murder, rape, child-rape, slavery, beating of slaves, intolerance for Gays and women. It's all in the Bible. Yet you espouse it as some sort of authority for living one's life in a proper manner! Tell me, have you visited www.godhatesfags.com ? You will see the WORST of all believers at that site. Truly appalling. Yet all they are doing is taking the words of the Bible and using it as TRUTH. You should be ashamed of yourself, for defending the Bible.
Whilst we are here, THEISM has many brands of its own particular evil. Indeed, today, on SKY news a former PRIEST has been gaoled for MOLESTING CHILDREN and for having many images of sexually abused kids. Some believer, eh? I suppose you believe arrogantly, that Jesus and God will forgive him? I'd like to know what you think of this 'believer'?
PLEASE understand David: I've no doubt you personally do a lot of good in the community. I've no doubt that you give comfort to people at times of sorrow and grief and that you engage in the more pleasant side of life, with Christenings and weddings and so forth. Great. I applaud such work.
As an Atheist, I don't follow your laws in your Bible. I wrong NOBODY. I believe that THIS LIFE IS THE ONLY EXISTENCE I WILL KNOW and thus, I respect others right to live their life in a proper, productive manner. I don't believe in the death sentence, nor intolerance for Gays, Lesbians or anybody different. Indeed, I despise the act of Paedophilia, but believe these people should be locked away into a mental home for treatment - I don't think prison would do these people any good.
So. If I was a believer, you'd think I was great! BECAUSE I choose not to believe though, you've made an attack on myself - by stating that Atheism is EVIL. Yet, you hardly understand Atheism. Do you understand WHY I've dispensed with Christianity? Do you understand that I think the Bible is evil man-hating filth? Can't you see where an Atheist's mind is at? You'd have me believe that your God will condemn me for turning my back on the FILTH in the Bible?
You really should check your thinking David. You say:
>>Certainly. The commandment is 'do not murder'. Sadly in a bent world we sometimes have to kill in self defence and in the OT world there was also capital punishment.<<
Yes. Thou shalt not kill. This is IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF MATTHEW 15:4
"He that Curseth thy Father or Mother, shall die the death."
This is in the NEW TESTAMENT. You know this. So what is it then? Is murder okay or not?
Further. If the world is 'bent' then the fault lies with your God. HE created Sin; HE created this world. YOUR GOD IS AT FAULT. NOT THE CREATION. Yet, you can't see it, or won't see it and you still insist that God is the light. Truly you are convincing nobody with your constant deluded statements. You stated that what you've read on these forums 'strengthens your resolve to highlight the evil of Atheism', to paraphrase. YOUR statements are infact, persuading none of us in here and indeed - you just strengthen our position of Atheism; that we were and are correct to dispense with Religion and that the Professor's latest work, The God Delusion, is really close to the mark.
73. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #13751 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 19, 2006 at 9:25 am
>>Comment #13743 by Theo<<
OH! I see, Theo. I live in the U.K. We don't have, nor believe in Capital Punishment in this country. MURDER is wrong, whether it be by Man, State or God. I DON'T agree with the death sentence. It is abhorrent and an incorrect philosophy.
So then. According to Matthew 15:4, killing children for cursing their parents is OKAY?! And you would consider doing this? This is IN DIRECT VIOLATION of the 10 commandments, 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'.
So what have we learnt? That the Bible is a contradictory ridiculous tool for living one's life. My kid swore at me the other day? Should my child be put to death? What a wonderful philosophy, TRULY outstanding in it's greatness.
Oh! You're trying that N.T came into effect lark, are you? Matthew is IN the New Testament! So this is a NEW LAW! Superceding, then, the 10 commandments?!
Murder is murder. Killing is killing. Jesus said we can kill our kids if they curse us. How EVIL can you get? You've explained NOTHING by stating this is different to the Old Testament and how they dealt with this. NOTHING.
PLEASE THEO, explain in black and white HOW Matthew 15:4 is good? How did God condone killing kids as a good thing?
74. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #13746 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 19, 2006 at 9:15 am
>>Comment #13644 by David A Robertson<<
>>No need TO SHOUT. It does not make my argument invalid. Yes – odds and the balance of life in the Universe are extremely valid arguments.<<
Again David, you have misunderstood. I use LARGE letters for emphasis - i.e. ITALICS. My words are not shouted at you. Apologies if you didn't understand or I am not making myself clear. But let's have a look at your 'Tolerant' self in your 'Tolerant' postings, eh? (Supposedly a man of God and love?)
>>I guess if I wrote down the back of a cornflakes packet I would still get the same points being made. It is the curse of fundamentalism…<<
NO NEED FOR SARCASM. NO NEED TO LINK ATHEISM TO FUNDAMENTALISM. NO NEED TO SUGGEST THAT WE ARE NOT CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING YOUR ARGUMENTS.
>>Nope. The Bible has been correctly translated.<<
OK. SO IS KILLING RIGHT OR WRONG? THE 10 COMMANDMENTS SUGGEST IT IS. MATTHEW 15:4 SUGGESTS IT'S OKAY TO MURDER YOUR CHILDREN? WHY THE CONFUSION. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS PASSAGE.
>>It strengthens me in my resolve to do all I can to resist the evil of atheism.<<
WHAT EVIL OF ATHEISM IS THIS, PLEASE? I AM EVIL BECAUSE OF WHAT? LACK OF BELIEF? HOW DOES THIS MAKE ME EVIL. I LIVE A GOOD, CLEAN, MORAL AND PRODUCTIVE LIFE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AM I LOWER IN GOD'S EYES THAN THE 9/11 LUNATICS? PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY I AM EVIL AND HOW YOU KNOW?
>>'oh if only I have enough faith then I will be able to command Everest to fall into the sea! I'm not sure why you are having such difficulty with this most basic use of language. Are all atheists as literalist as this? <<
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY LITERALISM? DO THEISTS NOT TAKE THE BIBLE, LITERALLY? YOU STATE THAT IT IS THE WORD OF GOD, NO? SO HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT PARTS ARE LITERAL TRUTH AND WHAT PARTS ARE PARABLES? DOES THIS MEAN THEN, THAT I CAN PRETEND THAT CERTAIN PARTS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT LITERAL AND I CAN THEREFORE WORK ON SUNDAY? HOW DO YOU KNOW PLEASE, WHAT PARTS OF THE BIBLE ARE LITERAL TRUTH AND WHAT PARTS ARE NOT? OR DO YOU JUST CHERRY PICK, WHEN A BAD PART APPEARS?
>>In summary I would argue that the fine tuning of the universe, mathematics, the existence of order, the consciousness of God, the existence of morality, beauty, the history of humanity, the bible and Jesus Christ all offer more than enough evidence.<<
THERE IS DOUBT THAT JESUS EVER EXISTED, THOUGH AS AN ATHEIST, I BELIEVE HE DID. BUT HE WAS JUST A MAN AND NOT A GOD. AS FOR MATHEMATICS - THIS IS A HUMAN INVENTION. NUMBERS DON'T EXIST IN REALITY. PROVE TO ME NUMBERS EXIST. THE UNIVERSE IS NOT FINALLY TUNED. STARS DIE AND EXPLODE ALL THE TIME. EARTH HAS HAD PAST EXTINCTIONS, DUE TO EXTERNAL FACTORS - FACTORS THAT COULD ULTIMATELY DESTROY MANKIND. THE BIBLE IS EVIDENCE OF NOTHING. YOU COULD SAY THE MR.MEN EXIST BECAUSE THEY ARE IN BOOK FORM. NO DIFFERENT FUNDAMENTALLY TO THE BIBLE BEING TRUE. BEAUTY EXISTS, IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. WHAT ABOUT THE DARKER SIDES OF EXISTENCE, SUCH AS DISEASE, DEATH AND SUFFERING? YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE THESE FACTS - A LOVING GOD COULD NOT PHILOSOPHICALLY CONSIDER SUCH HORRENDOUS IDEAS. PROGERIA IN CHILDREN SERVES WHAT PURPOSE EXACTLY? THE LESSON IS WHAT, EXACTLY?
AGAIN, THE LARGE LETTERS ARE FOR EMPHASIS, NOT SHOUTING. OKAY? NOW PLEASE EXPLAIN ALL MY POINTS, IN A PROPER FASHION AND NOT IN THE VAGUE, EVIDENCE-ABSENT FASHION YOU HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATING IN THESE FORUMS SO FAR?
THANKS.
Comment #13737 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 19, 2006 at 8:49 am
>>Comment #13708 by ryanjevansuk <<
An Excellent posting Ryan! I've said on here, on numerous occasions that, not all theories can be true. God exists is either (a) True or (b) False. Anything else is wishful thinking! The lack of evidence points to (b). As the Professor himself has stated, publicly, the debate is still alive, though the possibility of a Creator God is obviously slim.
>>Comment #13734 by Evolved<<
Thanks Evolved. I will be sending them my opinion too.
76. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #13736 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 19, 2006 at 8:34 am
You're dead right there, Billy S!
I came to the same conclusions, for the same reasons. It was stated on the Mike Dickin feed, by a Christian, that it was for 'intelligent people to translate the Bible'.
How hard can it be to translate:
Matthew 15:4? It's not clear whether killing is RIGHT or WRONG in the Bible. Sure, we have one of the 10 commandments stating it is wrong. But other areas of the Bible, say killing is FINE if God has ordered it. This is abhorrent.
You're right about David Robertson. He invades these forums, and DELIBERATELY attempts to ANGER atheists - just to prove his point of view.
I wouldn't mind David, if you offered some credible evidence we could investigate. You never do. Quoting the Bible as 'proof positive' is no proof at all. Again, for the same reasons, both Billy and I have stated. We both find the Bible wanting and SERIOUSLY FLAWED as a guide to living one's life. You can move the goalposts as much as you like; there are certain portions of the Bible that are quite evil and indeed, intolerant. The very same intolerance you claim us Atheists display.
I'm willing to bet many an Atheist in here lives a MUCH more moralistic life than you Theists. If your God is to condemn us, after living good, honest and clean lives, for lack of belief, then what does that say about your God?
77. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show
Comment #13732 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 19, 2006 at 8:26 am
Thanks for letting us know Jonti.
I CAN'T believe it. I am so shocked and saddened to hear that Mike has passed away.
I've left a message of condolence for him on the TalkSport forum. James Whale is airing a special show on Thursday at 10Pm for Mike. I shall be listening.
>>Comment #13545 by scooternyc<<
Hi Scooternyc! (I assume New York City?). It's great to have an American in here, with an open-mind! Keep up the good work and I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments!
78. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show
Comment #13543 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 18, 2006 at 7:51 am
As Expected...
...the God Believers DIDN'T convince me that God exists. Same old tired excuses. I loved it when that LOON went on about Moses! Oh Yeah! Now if somebody like FRED WEST had 'heard from God', I doubt any of us would have believed him! Yet Moses the MURDERER is believed! Wow! Like Yorker stated earlier, the intellectual arguments put forth by the believers were truly ASTOUNDING! God did it! God did it! I don't know how! But God did it!
Particularly interesting was that LOON who always rings up TalkSport (usually on James Whale's show) and starts his singing and Christian Chorus. He's a REAL DELUDED LOON. He's always calling TalkSport harping on about Jesus this and Jesus that and the 'Human eye couldn't have evolved' (which is incorrect).
And that Agnostic was TRULY confused! Agnostics are in a worse place than theists or us Atheists!
Believers: You have the right to believe in Jesus and I admire (though I don't respect) your belief. It is no longer good enough for myself; I can't concede to a God any longer. Everything we witness, hear, taste, smell or touch - all of it is NATURAL. The universe itself, is NATURAL. There is NO evidence of a Supernatural alternative universe or existence. You really are clutching at straws. There's no after-life or reward/ punishment. Unless you can provide proof to the contrary?
It would be lovely to believe that the murdered innocents are in 'Heaven' next to God, whilst the likes of Hitler or Stalin are paying for their crimes. Do believers REALLY think this is possible? Based upon what?
Some of the callers on the show, harping on that the Bible is true: I'd love to know how they know this to be the case? That individual who was on drugs and 'felt the love of God' - hmmmm. I have great worry and concern when somebody who, after readily-admitting he was on drugs, is suddenly 'touched' by God. Drugs are powerful things. My Father recently had a triple-bypass: He told me about the strangeness and hallucinations he experienced after the surgery. He said it was truly frightening. Now. Is it beyond the imagination, if somebody of belief, after taking hell-knows what type of drugs, 'sees' or 'hears' or is 'touched' by Jesus? Not at all. The Human mind can play strange games. Sadly, none of these experiences are evidence of God.
Wrong. Worrying. DELUDED. I doubt any of the callers will bother to pick up Professor Dawkins books and read them. And if they did, they'd only do it in order to attack Atheists.
I can't believe that I USED to believe. I was deluded. I was deluded too. Not no more. I urge ANY believers, with ANY sense of doubt to investigate for yourselves. You won't find God. He is not there.
79. Richard Dawkins on the Mike Dickin Show
Comment #13531 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 18, 2006 at 5:43 am
I am a SERIOUS listener to TalkSport - my favourite presenters being James Whale, John Gaunt, Mike Mendoza and of course - Mike Dickin.
If you've never listened to 'The Angriest Man in Britain', then where have you been?! His shows are always great and he speaks many-a-truth.
I'm going to enjoy listening to this... and I'll doubt, yet again, that believers will convince me.
80. Grandparents linked with church-going
Comment #13078 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 15, 2006 at 9:37 am
Interesting Jared.
My Grandmother believes - and being in her mid-80's of course, her parents were staunch Victorians.
My Grandfather is Agnostic.
I'm Atheist. So we cover all the spectrum here! I respect my Grandparents views, though I don't agree with them at all.
Further, my Grandmother - who has DEVOTED herself to helping the Church, all her life, was upset recently. She wasn't invited to the annual Christmas meal - because the new vicar has decided he doesn't like her. I CAN'T believe believers! They don't even tolerate each other!
Ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous. All that charitable work my Grandmother did for them. All that gardening my Grandfather did for them - for FREE. None of it means ZILCH.
I'm glad I don't believe. Life is too short.
81. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #13058 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 15, 2006 at 8:05 am
David. We are not making progress here at all. You moan that we're NOT providing good debate - whilst ignoring our remarks and continuing your attack on Professor Dawkins. We really must agree to disagree.
>>God is outside of time and space<<
How do you know this please? Is it an assumption?
>>We do not believe in a created God. We believe in an uncreated supernatural power. I'm afraid you disprove nothing when you argue against the existence of a created God.<<
You are the one providing a circular argument. Everything we understand is WITHIN our universe. You can move the barriers back EVERY time another discovery is made. You can claim ANYTHING to substantiate your belief. Every time I say X, you can say Y. God is beyond Time and Space is MOVING the goalposts again. You can do this Ad Infinitum. It STILL doesn't prove the existence for God. You claim God exists; so prove it to us. I've asked this several times now and you ignore it.
PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF OF YOUR CREATOR. You should be able to provide some proof, after a life time of belief. WHERE IS IT?
>>Something came from nothing. At one point there was no universe, there was no material, there was no matter, no time, no space. And out of that big nothing there came the Big Bang and our vast universe, tiny planet, evolution and the human species. I think you will agree that such a notion is beyond the realms of reason and is a total nonsensical fantasy<<
We are JUST touching the outer-realms of possibility in Cosmology. What do you know of Virtual Particles? It is ENTIRELY possible that the pre-universal state was ZERO ENERGY. As incredible as this seems, matter and energy may have come about from ONE escaping particle from the matter/antimatter bombardment. Usually the state would be ZERO. I know this is hard to understand, but just because we don't know FULLY the mechanisms of the universe, DOESN'T still mean that 'God' must have did it! If we had the answers to this NOW, you'd still insist that God created this event... everytime pushing the goalposts further and further back. You will do this forever, after each discovery by Man.
>>is not only the fact that matter exists at all, but that it is so ordered that life can exist<<
Life is not ordered. Life is chaos. One child grows to an adult and lives 99 years. Another may have Progeria and die aged 10. Perfectly sensible in an Atheist universe, complete NONESENSE in a universe 'created' by a 'loving God'.
>>Stephen Hawking points out that if the rate of expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in ten thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present state. If it had been greater by one part in a million then the stars and planets would not have been able to form. Is that not spine chillingly incredible? Constants like the speed of light, the force of gravity and electromagnetism all need to work precisely together for there to be life. Apparently there are fifteen such constants. Wonderful and incredible<<
Yes. Incredible. It's highly possible then, by your argument, that many potential universes may have not ever existed - this one managed to survive. None of these processes' require a creator. They are NATURAL.
>>The question is how did we get the conditions for evolution? I guess you could argue that we were very very very lucky – to the point of one in ten thousand million million.<<
Numerical arguments are pointless and irrelevant. The fact we are here PROVES existence is possible, REGARDLESS of the odds. TECHNICALLY you and I have more chance of being murdered than winning the lottery - yet people win the lottery every week and you and I have yet to be murdered, DESPITE THE ODDS BEING LOWER. Your argument here is INVALID.
>>The reason that we believe in God is because of the evidence, because of science (knowledge), because of what we see in the universe.<<
This is EVIDENCE OF NOTHING. I've asked you on numerous occasions to answer my question for evidence of God's existence. Is this the best you can come up with? All this proves is that Man is capable of learning and that the universe exists in a NATURAL state. There is NO EVIDENCE of a supernatural hand at work here. You've defeated your own argument with this nonesensical statement.
>>In bringing up the argument of the origin of matter and of the universe you have in fact scored an enormous own goal. Instead of proving that there almost certainly is no God you have demonstrated that there almost certainly is. It might be a good idea to find out who he is, stop burying your head in the sand and stop shaking your fist at a God you say cannot exist because in order to exist he would have to be more complex than you<<
Wrong. And for all the reasons I've stated above. All the empirical evidence you have bought to this discussion is OBSERVABLE NATURAL PHENOMENA. Nothing more or less. The universe is NOT evidence of a God - rather, evidence of existence AND NOTHING ELSE.
I suggest YOU stop burying YOUR head in the sand and realise how flawed your arguments are. Will you ever respond to what I and my fellow Atheists ask of you?
You have provided NO EVIDENCE of a Creator God. Your philosophy is quite flawed and as a lowly factory worker, I'm afraid I'm quite disappointed with your arguments - because you are obviously intelligent, yet DELUDED. DELUDED into irrational belief for the explanation of existence.
82. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #13047 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 15, 2006 at 6:57 am
Hi Martin.
Actually, I'm refering to other times When Dave posts the Bible at us!
I find it LUDICROUS that the believers say that God exists - because the BIBLE SAYS SO! This could apply to ANYTHING! The Mr. Men, Spot The Dog, or the Ladybird book of Witches and Wizards!
I agree with your sentiments though. David Robertson is the atypical believer; looking down their pious noses at the rest of us for DARING not to believe! The Bible is QUITE absurd in parts - and contradictory in others. Consider that centuries ago, when 'common' men were not allowed Bibles - it would be easy to visualise the amount of FEAR and CONTROL the church had over the populace.
No longer, however. As a species, there are many ordinary people, such as myself, who no longer want to be treated - as you so rightly stated - as children.
I watched the Omen the other day. Strange how, now I no longer have faith,(I have NO DOUBT GOD Doesn't exist - for extremely personal reasons; I've tested God and he ISN'T there), that the film had NO interest, nor was it REMOTELY frightening.
You know what IS frightening, though Martin? NUTTERS throwing themselves into buses, strapped up with explosives on the streets of Iraq; LOONIES hijacking aircraft and throwing them into buildings; British-born 'Muslims' throwing their lives away and murdering INNOCENT people on trains... and on and on.
It's clear WHERE the problem lies. NO Atheist would do this 'for our cause'.
HOW do you defend this Mr.Robertson? It is unjustifiable you relgious zealot.
83. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #13040 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 15, 2006 at 6:26 am
Excellent points made by Billy S and Martin above.
I particularly like this passage from David Robertson in his review:
>>The God Delusion fits nicely into that category. I am sure you will delight your disciples, such as Philip Pullman, establishing what they already believe, but I very much doubt you will make any impact on others who are less fixed in their opinions and who really are seekers after truth. What I do appreciate about what you say is that, unlike the cowards and the lazy who want to deny its existence, you admit that there is such a thing as truth. You may laugh at the idea that the truth is ultimately found in Jesus Christ. However I remain an optimist. I believe not only in truth but also in the power of God and his Holy Spirit to bring enlightenment to even the darkest mind. So there is still hope for us both. <<
This is most revealing!
1) We are NOT disciples of Professor Dawkins. He just happens to put forward our ideas in a very explanatory and articulate manner.
2) We don't agree with everything he says, but he isn't far off with our thinking - consider the opposite with David and the believers! They can't agree on anything! Who is correct? Muslims? Hindi? Christians? Scientologist? The Aetherius Society!?
3)We don't need 'hope' from your eternal God. We don't believe in his holiness! EVEN in the remote possibility that David is correct - and that God exists - then it would SURELY be a poor superior being, to condemn, decent-living people for not believing! After all, HE created us Atheists! HE created our lack of belief!
4)You talk about 'truth'. Not all theories can be true. God either exists/ doesn't exist. WHERE is your evidence for his existence? All we observe around us is NATURAL phenomena, in a NATURAL universe. Do you totally deny the possibility of their NOT Being a God? If so, you haven't founded your conclusions on anything other than what you've been force-fed. HOW do you make the conclusion that God exists, that Jesus is the light? Please display that evidence here, for all Atheists to review.
5) We Atheists REALLY ARE SEEKERS OF TRUTH, also. It's sad that you can't witness this. You think I am a bad person, for rejecting Supernaturalism? How do you make this conclusion then? I've never committed a crime; I've been faithful to my wife for 15 years; I don't hit or abuse my children; I don't smoke, drink and have NEVER taken drugs, other than those prescribed by the doctor; I try to learn new ideas all the time; I consider my neighbours and I drive correctly on the roads. I could go on and on... I don't consider myself special though. I consider this as 'normal' behaviour. Yet I don't believe. Are you SERIOUSLY telling us Atheists that people like me are DOOMED, yet lunatics like the London Bombers, or paedophile 'believer' priests are MORE respected in God's kingdom?! I think you should not only check your rationality, but also, that of your God and his philosophy. The belief system you hold so dearly, is seriously flawed. I could point out MANY errors in The Bible. Yet you insist that this CLEVER creator made the universe and planets and stars and Quarks and Atoms and life-forms; yet he can't create a text which makes ANY sense to rational-minded individuals. You really are losing in here David. Every post you make, just confirms our Atheism even further. I'd suggest you consider NOT attempting to anger Atheists - which is your true purpose; you're certainly not in here to do God's bidding - and concentrate on your flock and your own religious beliefs. You will NOT succeed in upsetting us Atheists - your true purpose - indeed, you only CONFIRM what many of us have already come to suspect; that Theists are the most intolerant, ignorant and unloving of all Humanity. You're right. Were wrong. We're evil, evil, evil. Why do you care? What does it matter to you? Don't post anymore Bible passages in here, for crying out loud! We don't believe the Bible has any authority whatsoever.
84. In case you didn't know I'm a fool, here's an article to prove it.
Comment #13035 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 15, 2006 at 6:03 am
jack Said:
>>This is basically stating Socrates' dictum: "I only know that I know nothing". Socrates didn't mean by that that he was ignorant. It meant he recognised that such knowledge as he had was necessarily uncertain, since it came to him through the imperfect engines of human perception and human reason. This has always seemed obvious to me, but there are many philosophical thought experiments which try to illustrate it. What if we're just "brains in vats", being fed false perceptions by a mad scientist which give us a perfectly believable impression of our "reality"... but which are as false as the things we perceive in dreams? Crazy, right? But can you absolutely disprove it? No. But does that mean we should use the term "agnostic" about every single thing we experience? Of course not. Hence my point about certainty beyond reasonable doubt.<<
This is SUCH a good point! It's been my contention for some time now, that MAN invented GOD and not vice versa. Everything we have learned, every science discovery, every theory, every religion - all is attibuted to MAN.
There is not ONE SHRED of evidence that the Bible, Al Qur'an or ANY religious texts have had a supernatural hand in their revelation and construction. NOT ONE.
Man created God. There's no evidence of it being the other way around.
85. Blaming 'The God Delusion'
Comment #13031 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 15, 2006 at 5:52 am
I've read this interesting review and all the above postings. Excellent!
>>Comment #13017 by Aussie<<
I'll add to this, Aussie. I CAN'T WAIT to read The God Delusion! I have it coming (ironically?) as a Christmas pressie! The Theists have been vitriolic in their attacks against TGD. One wonders why? Maybe Professor Dawkins has hit a sore spot?!
I am thoroughly looking forward to reading it. I enjoy all the Professors' works. They explain so much to a layman, such as myself; I particularly enjoy the manner in which Professor Dawkins explains difficult subjects in such simple plain English.
Something the Bible has NEVER done.
I remember as a kid, reading that Gideon Bible claptrap I was given from school. At the front, it had passages to turn to, when in times of trouble/ anger/ loneliness etc., Try and understand it! PURE contradictory and confusing text. The Bible makes as much sense to myself as does a chocolate teapot! Infact, a chocolate teapot would be MORE use than the Bible. Certainly would be entertaining... :-)
86. Atheists' bleak alternative
Comment #12912 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 14, 2006 at 10:42 am
I Find Jacoby's logic quite compelling.
Quoting such phrases as 'Thous shalt not murder' is very interesting in the extreme.
>>Though religion remains important in American life<<
PARDON? NOW HEAR THIS JACOBY. I love America. I side with America BEFORE Europe. I don't consider myself European at all. I'm English. And I love America. I go regularly and find the American people to be brave, courageous, friendly and hospitable. But you don't need religion to be like this. Indeed, you Americans don't seem to practice what you preach at times.
You really SHOULD have a word with Dubya.
Because, it seems, that the leader of the free-world and an admitted Christian, can't follow Christ's teaching properly. THOU SHALT NOT KILL. There's no way around this. Jesus said, THOU SHALT NOT KILL. He didn't say YOU CAN KILL IF IT IS THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS or YOU CAN KILL IN THE INTEREST OF AMERICAN and BRITISH FREEDOM (I implicate the 'Christian' zealot Blair here too, in the interest of fairness).
THOU SHALT NOT KILL. THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
The people who have been MURDERED in Iraq would demonstrate that Dubya is HARDLY a Christian.
Jacoby doesn't understand Atheism. WE say that murder is wrong SIMPLY BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS A RIGHT TO LIVE. You don't need God or rules to commit to this. We all have a RIGHT to life. Interestingly, here again, America fails - because you have the State-sanctioned murder system known as Death Row. The Death sentence is philosophically incorrect. ESPECIALLY so, if you are a Christian. Christ said: TURN THE OTHER CHEEK. Again, you American believers ignore this teaching.
Again. THOU SHALT NOT KILL. "Except you Mr.X You've been found guilty and will be gassed/ electrocuted/ lethally injected for your crimes. May God have mercy on your soul."
How ludicrous! Another Theist, in here, demonstrating that taking up Atheism was the correct philosophy to have committed myself to. I find religious believers intolerant and very ignorant of their own Bible.
You religious lot really are the most contradictory and illogical of the whole Human Race. I don't understand you at all.
87. In case you didn't know I'm a fool, here's an article to prove it.
Comment #12907 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 14, 2006 at 10:00 am
Dr. Dooley. If you should read these forums, please explain the following:
>> I have always disliked the Oxford scientists, Richard Dawkins <<
This sentence serves what purpose, exactly? Is it to solidate your position of faith? What about 'Turn the other cheek' as your Lord Jesus COMMANDED? This conflicts with your line:
>>..committed to a form of existence whose highest ideals are mercy, peace and love<<
Why the contradiction? I don't see ANY love in your opening remarks. Again, for us Atheists, you've highlighted the downright NASTINESS of Theists.
>>..It really doesn't matter whether religous claims are true or false.<<
Is this a limited ADMITTANCE to the likelihood that religion is wrong? You say it doesn't MATTER?! You want us Atheists to take you seriously, with this comment?! BASING YOUR WHOLE LIFE ON SOMETHING THAT MIGHT NOT BE?! Wasting your one true life in church and praying and all the other rituals that go we faith is a WASTE of time if you have doubts. Explain HOW it doesn't matter, in light of 9/11? It is a VERY dangerous place you are treading in here. I'd say it is of the MOST importance that religion be proved true or false. How can you attack Professor Dawkins, if you can't back your absurd claims? We Atheists don't claim ANYTHING - other than the fact that we don't believe in the Supernatural - which CAN'T be tested nor studied.
>>..he hasn't demonstrated that God doesn't exist at all.<<
Okay then. Let's say you're right. YOU PROVE GOD EXISTS THEN. Oh! You Can't? Then the Professor is right with his assumptions. God Doesn't exist.
>>... bind people through a shared sense of the sacred.<<
So. Because you ALL get together in your million-fold numbers, you're correct in your views? Logically then, you must accept that the Scientologists - even though they believe completely different ideas - are right too! You can't be both right! Only one theory can be true! HOW do you KNOW that YOUR particular brand of religion is correct? Demonstrate that here for us all to see please.
>>... we should still respect those that still cling to its consolations.<<
WHY? You don't respect MY view NOT to believe. Indeed, you dislike the Professor and you look down your pious nose at us Atheists. Ugh! We are so unclean, eh?
WHY should we respect ANY views that have NO BASIS of substantiation? Should I respect people who believe in re-incarnation? Should I respect those who say they have been abducted and impregnated by Aliens? Should I respect adults for believing in Santa Claus? WHERE do you draw the line? You Theists DEMAND that we 'respect' your illogical, unproven views, yet you can't make that same distinction for us Atheists who reject Supernatural belief systems.
I find your whole article full of atrocious lies (You really should find out more about Hitler) and further, it is intolerant, ignorant and defamotary of the great Professor Dawkins.
I am just a factory worker, Dr. Dooley, but I can see what is very wrong with your thinking. You are clearly deluded, your thinking is flawed and illogical, you have stated many contradictions during your writing and I wonder why you haven't read The God Delusion properly. It was written, personally for you.
88. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #12900 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 14, 2006 at 9:29 am
>>Comment #12836 by beders<<
AN EXCELLENT POST! Theists always insist that we provide evidence for this, provide evidence for that, explain our answers to every damned question ever considered by Man!
Atheists! We all KNOW that we don't have every answer - the Theists are the ones who claim all-knowledge in the omnipotence of God.
This can be broken down REAL simple. Theists:
Provide PROPER EMPIRICAL evidence of God's existence, please. HOW do you KNOW he exists?
Provide PROPER EMPIRICAL evidence that the Bible is correct - and HOW do you KNOW?
There's none. You know it and we know it.
89. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #12897 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 14, 2006 at 9:23 am
David Said:
>>Good. Glad you've given up on the racism and homophobia. Just a shame that you replaced it with another set of people to hate and despise.<<
Wrong. I DON'T hate you religious believers. I admire your faith. But answer this: Do YOU HATE Gays? Do you condone them, as your silly Bible demands?
How ludicrous. That God would condemn what he created. i.e Gays, Lesbians, Paedophiles, Murderers, rapists.
All created by God - according to you.
And
>>"And I'm a tolerant person."<<
You know NOTHING about me. Why are you here? Do you believe you are doing God's work by attacking Atheists? You should read your Bible properly. Your not supposed to preach outside of the Church. You've read Professor Dawkins books - I'll grant you credit for bothering - yet, you moan at us Atheists as NOT answering your questions directly.
You didn't answer my question earlier. WHAT created your God and what was he doing before time began?
Ah. You don't know. So you continue in your illogical belief system, pleased with yourself that you are attacking Atheists and doing 'God's work', eh?
I'd suggest you leave these forums - take your anger with you - and turn the other cheek as Jesus commanded you.
You've not convinced any of us Atheists in here that we are wrong to reject supernatural belief. You've ignored everything I've said and taken AD HOMINEM pot shots at my posting.
It's clear where the intolerance is.
I hope your God is with you, always. I don't need God anymore. I'll take my chances. And it would be a POOR supreme being indeed, if he were to condemn me to eternal hellfire for not believing. The evidence for 'his' existence is very poor, if at all observable. I can't think of ONE piece of evidence that would convince me of a God.
90. Religion for a Captive Audience, Paid For by Taxes
Comment #12731 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 13, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Interesting post as usual Yorker.
I wasn't even a gleam in my Dad's eyes in '62! However, I find your analogy interesting.
To be a 'red' in those days was the WORST Abomination on Earth, in the States!
To be an 'Atheist' in the States nowadays, seems to be a parallel, of sorts, to a 'Red' of the '60's.
Or am I being to simplistic here? I'm planning to go to the States again next year, for my 3rd holiday. To be honest, I love the American people, but I'm sure as hellfire damned scared to admit to being an Atheist!
Interesting article above. Scary too.
91. Scientologists get £270,000 subsidy
Comment #12730 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 13, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Yes. Appalling that SA!
And when some of the brightest Atheists, such as our great Professor Dawkins, writes a new book, all the parasites come out of the woodwork and attack him on this website!
I wouldn't mind so much, we're all entitled to our views, but admit you're an Atheist - and you are SUPPOSED to have every answer, to every question, ever thought of by Man!
My family were religious for many years. I say were, because most of my brothers are NO LONGER - much like myself. Other family members still cling on to the comfort-blanket.
When I admitted recently, that I am now totally Atheist ( I went from Theist, to Agnostic and now Atheist), I was bombarded with thousands of questions to explain existence, the universe, life and every damned reason why I SHOULDN'T be Atheist!
I can't believe any longer. No LOVING God could dream up death, disease, pestilence or suffering. That ain't love. It's far removed from that.
Progeria serves what purpose, exactly? Cancers are good for what, reason? Kids being blown up by mines, is instructive how, exactly?
In an Atheist universe, this all makes sense. I've no doubt in my mind that 'He' isn't there. I'm much more comfortable now. I'm at peace with why I am here and how to live. I still have a code of ethics - better infact, than the limiting 10 commandments.
I learn so much from my fellow Atheists! If you are Atheist and reading this - thanks. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. Every time I read from an Atheist post I LEARN. Every time I read a Theist post, I'm convinced I was right to reject superstition from my life.
92. Ken Miller on Intelligent Design
Comment #12729 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 13, 2006 at 12:30 pm
OOH! Careful SA! You'll have the thought police after you! :-)
Ah! Good ol' Robertsons Marmalade! If you have any of those old golly's nowadays, they'll make a fortune on ebay!
Great Video here!
93. Dawkins Delusion (3rd article, Same Stupid Title)
Comment #12728 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 13, 2006 at 12:24 pm
>>Comment #12618 by David A Robertson<<
You've had thousands of years to prove your claims Mr.Robertson. In all that time, none have been substantiated. You attack us for having 'low standards'; how dare you look down on us for being Atheists. You have NO IDEA who is good or evil in here. Read some of the tripe from your fellow believers. David Matthews in particular is a God-fearing Misanthrope. The plain fact is, by your standards, all a man needs is belief and redemption. Thus, a low-life like Ian Huntley can repent upon death - and reach Heaven, whereas a homosexual married doctor, who devotes himself to one man and saves thousands will be condemned. Some superior wisdom that, from a superior being?
We are all - by your ridiculous beliefs - created in God's image; thus God MUST be a Sikh, Hindi, Muslim, Catholic, Judaeo-Christian Homosexual Atheist! Or is that point lost in your strange belief?
If so, how do you KNOW? How do you KNOW anything that you say, or believe in is true?
Why, when we admit to being Atheist, do you Theists INSIST on us providing answers to EVERY question man has?
And who the hell designed your God anyway? AH! He's always been there, you say? Doing what exactly? Sitting in a vacuum-less, non-universe, bored? Ridiculous. Totally Ludicrous. Ah! 'I'll go and make some inferior life-forms and I'll have a bit of fun and design disease, death and suffering. Further, I'll make ridiculous rules that can't be understood or followed and I'll tell them they have free-will UNLESS they break my rules (meaning they won't have free-will) and I'll prepare a fantastic eternal torture for them if they don't grovel at my feet and worship my glory. Amen'.
Prove any of it and all Atheists will be believers. You MOAN about not having 'money' to make programmes? Write to the Queen - she is head of the church. We've had Songs-of-ruddy-praise on the TV for years.
Faith is exactly what it states. FAITH. TOTAL LACK OF EVIDENCE. You moan at the great Professor Dawkins for his works - which I find riveting - yet think that morals would decline without belief. You'd better check your premises - they are wrong.
At 20, I was a RACIST, ANTI-GAY CHRISTIAN. No longer. I've thrown away childish beliefs. I don't believe in fairies or Goblins or Ghosts or Santa or the SkyDaddy now. And I'm a tolerant person. I can even tolerate and respect your need to believe. But don't come in here crying at us Atheists; some of us have been where you are and sadly, found it lacking, intolerant, irrational, anti-mankind and evil. Yes. The Bible is evil. You know this is true, if you've read it properly. Murder. Killing. Injustice. Child abuse. Rape. Cutting off of foreskins. It really is quite abhorrent.
94. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #12507 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 12, 2006 at 9:27 am
Hi Shauntheboy. Sorry. But your thinking is misguided.
Is God All-loving?
Any evil or Sin in the World is GOD'S FAULT and RESPONSIBILITY.
So God CAN'T be all-loving as you would have us believe. Further, an ALL-LOVING GOD, COULDN'T conceive of concepts such as death, disease and suffering. It would be illogical to him.
Do we have free-will?
To have TRUE Free-will, we should be able to do WHAT we like WITHOUT PUNISHMENT.
We are left with the inescapable conclusion that, to have free-will, we should be allowed to do what we like. But, according to the Bible, we aren't allowed to do certain things. Therefore, we don't have free-will.
Is God all-knowing? Then he KNEW IN ADVANCE who would commit Sinful acts. SO WHY PUNISH THEM for being EXACTLY AS HE CREATED?
Then God CAN'T be all-knowing.
For an immortal, all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful God, to create a mortal, limited-knowing, limited-loving, limited-powerful Human and then go an punish that Human for being EXACTLY as GOD designed him, is illogical and impossible.
It is unfair and not the act of a supreme being. To blame the lesser being, for behaving EXACTLY as the lesser being was DESIGNED by the superior being is illogical and impossible.
Therefore, he can't exist. God is an illogical concept.
A logical God, would have everything right at THE START. To allow the imperfections to continue through their dismal existence is ILLOGICAL and IMPOSSIBLE.
I'd check your premises. Your thinking is flawed. You should read The God Delusion - the Professor wrote it specifically for you. Intelligent, thoughtful people, clinging on to the hope of a God.
95. Revealed: rise of creationism in UK schools
Comment #12505 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 12, 2006 at 9:16 am
A great post CatMac! I read it all and concur!
TimeLord stated earlier, how do we not know McIntosh is not right?
I'm sorry, but the man is a LOON. He believes that the Earth is 6000 years old - which it is NOT and that Dinosaurs were drowning as Noah loaded up the Ark with the 1,000's of species of animal that were present on Earth. Forgive me if I laugh, but a 450-ft long boat is not capable of sustaining that many animals for the many weeks it had to have done so.
If McIntosh is a Professor and believes this nonesense, then there is NO REASON why a factory worker like myself can't become one! Indeed, Professor Dawkins and former Leeds University students have stated their disbelief with some of his statements. He clearly is DELUDED.
I'm Atheist. I have respect for believers. It is a leap of faith I can't make any longer (nor do I wish to). However; there is belief in a supreme being, then there are the LOONIES who take the Bible as literal truth. It ISN'T. And for many reasons. The Bible is wrong in many areas. To believe the world is 6,000 years old is an EVIL philosophy. I think McIntosh should be sacked from his position at Leeds University and put away in the loony bin, where he belongs.
Sorry if this offends you believers. This is not my intention. The problem is that a SCIENTIST as distinguished as McIntosh HAS to know that he is peddling lies. And gullible people would clearly fall for it. Which is EVIL.
Comment #12502 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 12, 2006 at 8:58 am
I'm an Atheist, But...
...Why is it when we admit it, the believers stick their noses in the air and want us to give them EVERY answer to every question man could dream of?!
Okay, you say "I'm a Theist, but.."
To which I reply, "...But, who created God?"
Don't give me that, he's-always-been-there lark! What was he doing BEFORE Time? Sitting in a vacuum, bored? Hmmm. I'll go and make some inferior beings and scare the hell out of them with a set of rules. I'll call it the Bible. And I'll have a wee bit of fun, by thinking up hundreds of horrible ways they can suffer and die.
Thanks God. You're the best. I hope you don't mind if I don't bow down to your obviously NOT worthy supreme status.
For the man above who says he has trouble becoming a full Atheist. DON'T. My life is much better since jettisoning this religious rubbish. Sunday is for D.I.Y and sport. Not for bowing down in a cold church and hearing doom and gloom.
97. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!
Comment #12501 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 12, 2006 at 8:45 am
>>The mercy of God has nothing to do with us all living a nice life now!
God's mercy is displayed in that he has provided a 'bridge' between himself (He who is unapproachable) and mankind in the example, life, death, resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. In Him is our Salvation.<<
How convenient for God. If God had any MERCY at all, he would have made us PERFECT and incapable of suffering, death and disease in the first place. The problems of the Earth stops at GOD'S responsibility, not mans. You can't punish man for being EXACTLY how he was designed by your designer God. He messed it up and he should have put it right TO BEGIN WITH. To allow this 'hideous failed caricature' known as Man, to continue, proves God does not exist at all.
>>Job states that sometimes the evil of this world seem to prosper. It doesn't seem fair does it. Yet, in God's eyes none of us are perfect, but neither are we expected to be - we are only required to do our best. Now, that's different for everyone but it's something that everyone can do.<<
Again, for evil to prosper, then the buck stops at God's feet. He condemns murderers - for being EXACTLY how he created them. He condemns homosexuals, for being EXACTLY as he created them. When will your God grow up and accept some blame? For evil to EXIST AT ALL, then God MUST HAVE CREATED IT, be it the 'Devil' or God himself. This is circular reasoning AND VERY CONVENIENT FOR GOD, that a lesser being, messed up by a better being, can be punished by the better being for behaving exactly as a lesser being should!!!
A 'LOVING' God, creating 'HATE' is an IMPOSSIBILITY. Only an EVIL God could create evil. It is a ridiculous argument, much like stating that the Bible is true BECAUSE the Bible says so!
I suggest you check your reasoning, because, it is faulty. You believe in a loving God, right? What kind of LOVING being would consider the concept of the AIDS Virus? The disease Progeria? Cancer? Leprosy? Elephantitis? There are 1,000's of VILE ways of dying - all lovingly crafted by your Loving God. What a tribute to superior beings he is.
Worship that? I'd rather not thank you. I think your God (who I doubt exists), must be QUITE an evil, miserable old bugger, incapable of understanding mankinds problems. Jesus didn't make things any better for any of us, so what was the point? If it was to understand suffering, then why has God chosen to ignore the last 2,000 years?
These are tired old arguments. And Atheists like us have heard them all before and grow impatient at your God's lack of empathy and lack of desire to show himself and sort this planet out.
He doesn't because he is not there. You are DELUDED and I beg you to read The God Delusion. It was written specifically for you. Somebody who has intelligence, but is clinging on to the hope of a God.
98. Sunday Sequence with William Crawley
Comment #12500 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 12, 2006 at 8:29 am
>>Comment #12261 by Stephen Topping <<
BOO HOO! BOO HOO! WE DON'T BELIEVE IN THE NOAH'S ARK FAIRY TALE! BOO HOO! Okay then Mr. T. Check this out:
I am no Mathemetician, but you'd better read your fairy-tale book of Gods PROPERLY.
GENESIS: 6:15 : And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
Now this is around 450 feet long. FOR EVERY ANIMAL UPON THE EARTH?!?! It would be just a BIT squashed don't you think? Or are you capable of thinking? And how DID Noah, manage to feed all the animals, without them EATING, DEFECATING and URINATING on each other? Does this REALLY make sense to you? Do you NOT understand dimensions? I am sure that, even the Oriana, couldn't get every animal on board without blasted sinking! There are weight limits on any air or sea-bound vessel you know!
Lets see; chickens, rats, mice, cats, dogs, pigs, goats, sheep, cows, foxes, wolves, brown bears, polar bears, penguins, buffalo, elephants, rhinos, hippos, lions, tigers, cheetahs, hyenas, insects and many, many more animals (2 of each, remember?) all huddled up on the Ark! Wow! That was some boat! A feat of engineering SUPREMELY above anything we could make in the 21st Century!
I've no doubt a man named Noah lived. I've no doubt he built a boat - and put a few animals on board. I've no doubt, there was a localised flood and that only Noah and a few animals survived.
But not the whole blooming world! Get a grip Mr. Topping! HOW can you get thousands of species of animals onto one, shoddy boat?!
Is this another one of those 'parables' you Christians always harp on about, then? Oh! I see! It is TRUE? You ARE deluded if you believe this - and childishly so. If you have some intelligence and believe it is a 'parable', then we are left with the inescapable conclusion of trying to determine WHAT parts are 'parables' and what parts are 'truth'.
I bet you believe in the Virgin birth too. DELUDED. You really should read The God Delusion - the Professor wrote it for you personally.
Now, I'm off to Asda to buy a Noah's ark playset. It's only £5 and interestingly, it has around 10 animals on board. Strange that, eh?
99. The Atheist Delusion: a pisspoor presentation
Comment #12252 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 11, 2006 at 12:45 pm
>>And (you will not like this but I have to say it) please be careful about mocking God. One day you will stand before him and give account for every careless word and thought. I realise that for most of you that is a laughable concept - but what if it is true. I really mean it when I ask you to seek the Lord while he may be found.<<
Quite simply David, I couldn't care less. Let's PRETEND you are right. And I stand before him on judgement day. I have many questions.
WHY as a perfect Being, did you make us imperfect?
WHY did you create the concept of death, disease and suffering?
WHY do you let 'your' people continue for generation after generation, confused over your existence?
WHY did you not intervene in WWI? WW2? The Crusades? The countless wars? The AIDS Crisis? The death's of MILLIONS to diseases (that you created)?
WHY did you let Muslims and Jews and Christians and Hindis and Sikhs have differing ideas?
WHY do you NEVER show us any way forward?
WHY is the Bible so full of hate, death, intolerance, murder, destruction and impossible-to-follow laws?
WHY have you prepared a 'Hell' for us, yet profess to love us?
WHY have you made homosexuals - yet condemn them, for being EXACTLY as