51. Changing my Mind

Comment #108351 by qster on January 6, 2008 at 2:27 pm

Re 117, Its certainly the wrong place to discuss such issues, i agree. I also wrongly expected a degree of open minded discussion but perhaps amongst the mutual backslapping and confidence that 'nothing exists outside of my observable universe' there is the same degree of blank-faced denial that one gets when questioning our religious brothers' beliefs. I simply put it that there are no back and white absolutes. The truth inevitably lies between the extremes (in my experience). The scientific advancements that we now take for granted required great 'leaps of faith" for which the scientists were accused of heresy or living in a fantasy world. Dealing with 'nonsense or woo woo' if you prefer.
Re 114. The principle of Occams razor is quite valid - no objection there. so when you are sick, you visit the doctor and he prescribes a series of artificial chemical substances to alter the body composition/auto response to remove the symptoms you present in order to 'cure' you - very little consideration is given to the causes.I would argue that homeopathy is more in line with occams razor than you think. This is where a wholistic approach works and medicine struggles. Many of the worst killers of humans eg Cancers, liver and heart disease, diabetes etc are self induced through stress, poor diet, ingestions of toxins etc. The first principle of homeopathy is 'First do no harm'
For the record, I am not a pebble hanging, crystal wearing, incense burning lefty hindu guru although that wouldnt be so bad really. I drink, used to smoke, eat crap, dont exercise and probably will require medical attention quite a few times before I finally expire and email all of you to tell what is out there (or maybe thats what Im doing now - time is an illusion after all). So relax and enjoy the intelligent debate

52. Mother Nature is Not Our Friend

Comment #107006 by qster on January 3, 2008 at 8:51 pm

ON the subject of Harris' article, possibly if we stopped treating nature as an adversary and worked with 'her' as a friend we wouldnt need to seek ever invasive ways to repair the ongoing genetic damage that we are slowly realising through continous exposure to chemicals/pollutants. I should know, im a chemical engineer.

53. Mother Nature is Not Our Friend

Comment #107005 by qster on January 3, 2008 at 8:48 pm

As a half paddy, half Pom living in Oz I can truly say that You cannot beat a pint of Guinness (served Cold as it should be) from a Good Dublin Pub or better still a Murphys from a Cork pub.....ahhhh Joy!

54. Changing my Mind

Comment #107003 by qster on January 3, 2008 at 8:40 pm

Further to the response above, the 6th senses that many animals display and that Humans are so in awe of is simply a deeper understanding or awareness of the environment that surrounds them.
Animals, too, respond very well to such 'mysterious' treatments as Homeopathy - Modern science cannot explain why it works, it just does. Animals respond well due a lack of discrimination or preconceived expectations. Modern medicine (science) is particularly & vehemently against such treatment because a. it costs little to produce and is not patentable. b. not proven via establishment approved methods. I think there are many opportunities for a change of mind in the future for the b=greater benefit of humankind

55. Changing my Mind

Comment #106990 by qster on January 3, 2008 at 7:46 pm

Walk,
In answer to your first question, No i dont believe that Walsch was receiving messages from a supernatural being (a God per se). More that he found himself able to respond to his own questions in a way that is similar to humans experiencing moments of great clarity. I do accept some of what is written in there as original and insightful and makes a great deal of sense.
With regards to my thoughts on non-local communications - I believe for humans to experience such a phenomena takes some fine mental 'tuning'. Very few humans have the ability, need or motivation to do it. Of those that do, even fewer would admit to it at the risk of being ridiculed or persecuted.
There are many things as yet unknown to modern science. This is how we keep discovering and changing our minds about things - this process will never stop. Something may be unknown because we havent devised a way of measuring it yet. I would welcome a link or reference to the explanation of the dog/birds analogies.

56. Changing my Mind

Comment #106400 by qster on January 2, 2008 at 8:14 pm

The 70's were a great time for esoteric exploration. I read zukav probably 10 years ago as possibly my earliest foray into that particular area. At the same time I was trawling through Carlos castanedas Shamanic accounts too. At the end of the day, all such books represent opinions and reflect examples of beliefs at the time - RD's books are very powerful examples of this and reflect the cutting edge of the current religious backlash. I believe that in 30-40 years time, the collective human consciousness will have moved on and really hope 'to god' (ha ha) that the battle of fundamentalism we see now from both the Islamic east and Neo-con christian right in the west (Incidentally like many parties at extremes share similar values) will have died a death.
In response to Roland, I am interested in the concept of non-local communication and believe that it is possible at a connected energy level between all living beings - Ther e are many examples to see. Dogs anticipating their owners return from afar, birds flying in flocks etc. Deepak Chopra is a very well known proponent of this theory.

57. Changing my Mind

Comment #106378 by qster on January 2, 2008 at 6:56 pm

Tremendous response Dr JoneZ, thank you. I agree wrt Walsch and his now considerable wealth and status, however, good on him. The series is as you say a stepping stone to a more indepth consideration of the God question and does a pretty good job of helping people out of the religion traps. I have been a 'nothing' for the last 15 or so years after dropping a weak default affiliation with Catholicism.
Also glad to see the Quantum physics reference. Perhaps thats where we can find 'evidence' of God. Have you read Gary Zukav's "Dancing Wu Li Masters" on that very topic of the parallels between QP and eastern mysticism?

58. Changing my Mind

Comment #106370 by qster on January 2, 2008 at 6:32 pm

I think a good debate between opposing sides is normally an excellent exercise and good practice for both parties. However, I do not think it is productive to engage fundamentalists (or the like) with the hopes of any kind of peaceful, intelligent exchange.

The problem with text rather than face to face debate is failure to interpret the tone of comments. Does dragonfirematrix believe I am a fundamentalist? If so, then you have mistaken my tone. Debate is not about sitting in a virtual room with like-minded people. Thats an easy option..
I am an engineer, a scientist. I too would love to see evidence of Gods existence and as a scientist I dont discount any outcomes because of a lack of evidence. To obtaine evidence, one must be able to measure an outcome against a tested theory with tangible results. I just doubt this is possible. FYI, i am anti religion, anti fundamentalist with regard to anything. Fundamentalists do not change their mind and usually agressively push a point of viewwith little regard to open debate.

59. Changing my Mind

Comment #106357 by qster on January 2, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Yes Roland, the concepts are not new by any stretch and I think the Buddist 'philosophy' (Its not a religion) is about one of the most positive moral codes observed these days. The concepts do not contradict the atheist 'belief'. Do you believe the concepts you outline above to be true?

60. Changing my Mind

Comment #106312 by qster on January 2, 2008 at 4:23 pm

Hello all, I'm new to the site and read with great interest the vibrant discussion and argument about the existence of God or otherwise. It is interesting that such debate is blooming with the advent of an age of enlightenment away from the clutches or church doctrine and hugely assisted by the Internet. I wonder if contributors have read the "conversations with God Trilogy" by Neale Donald Walsch. I dont believe that anything in the series contracdicts the main thrust of Dawkins except for the primary point and that is that God does not exist as a separate entity - We are God in every infinite facet of our existence, good and bad. The concept of time and the nature of infinity must be considered first and raise our argument to encompass the possibilities that we arent the only beings with consciousness. Our level of understanding is still very limited but by the process going on in such sites as this we can hope to expand our minds. I would love to hear your thoughts.

61. Mother Nature is Not Our Friend

Comment #105848 by qster on January 2, 2008 at 1:09 am

as long as the human race considers themselves separate to nasture there will be a continuous battle against her. Harris' perspctive is exactly that - to see humans as super-natural....wrong. we are derived from the earth - every last molecule and back the earth we will go until those same molecules are tranformed into some other being