Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

Comment #200757 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 28, 2008 at 7:58 am

On a side note does anyone know when the discussion between Dawkins and PZ will be posted, its been over 2 months since it was recorded. How long does it take to edit a video?

52. PZ Myers - Science and Atheism in the Blogosphere

Comment #199880 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 26, 2008 at 1:00 pm

This is completely off-topic but is the discussion between PZ and Dawkins ever going to be posted?

53. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199134 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 25, 2008 at 8:19 am

If anyone has got a strong enough stomach read some Germaine Greer If you can survive that and not throw her book The Female Eunuch at the wall your a better man than me.

And a perfect example of a feminist doing exactly what Al and others have been talking about

As the debate over a screen version of Monica Ali's book Brick Lane continues, Salman Rushdie, the author who in 1989 received a fatwa from the late Ayatollah Khomeinei in the wake of the publication of his book The Satanic Verses, has entered the fray with an attack on a longstanding rival, Germaine Greer.

In a letter published in the Guardian today, which is expected to reignite a row which has simmered since the early 1990s, Rushdie denounces Greer's support for the Brick Lane activists who are attempting to block the film as: "philistine, sanctimonious, and disgraceful, but it is not unexpected".

"As I well remember, she has done this before," he continues. "At the height of the assault against my novel The Satanic Verses, Germaine Greer stated 'I refuse to sign petitions for that book of his, which was about his own troubles'. She went on to describe me as 'a megalomaniac, an Englishman with dark skin'. Now it's Monica Ali's turn to be deracinated by Germaine."

54. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #199090 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 25, 2008 at 7:16 am

Well yes I know that statistic but

Women's weekly earnings, including overtime, were lower than men's. This was partly because they worked fewer paid hours per week.
... Although median hourly pay provides a useful comparison between the earnings of men and women, it does not necessarily indicate differences in rates of pay for comparable jobs. Pay medians are affected by the different work patterns of men and women, such as the proportions in different occupations and their length of time in jobs.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=167

55. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199086 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 25, 2008 at 7:11 am

I think we start should compiling a list.

_____________________________________________

Embarrassing things to mention to a liberal Muslim

1. Muhammad took 'Aisha to be his wife when she was six, but he had sex with her only when she was nine.

56. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #199077 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 25, 2008 at 7:02 am

Steve

believe strongly in equal rights for women in every respect. I just can't believe that they still get paid less for the same work in many supposedly civilised country.

As far as I can tell that just isn't true.

57. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198914 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 5:58 pm

DamnDirtyApe

You're really really not going to like this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7466146.stm

Good spot.

58. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198799 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Actually, and I've pointed this out before, the real fascists and white supremacists are turning toward Islam because it gives them the feeling of power they enjoy.

I have also noticed that irony. White supremacists like the BNP for example condemn Islam merely to try and ride the wave, but actually agree with a lot of what Islam has to offer, the punishments the second class status of women etc.

You don't see the danger that the lack of criticism from the centre and left of the political spectrum (yes we can all find examples I'm talking about general trends) brings the very scary possibility of fascists coming to power.

59. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198782 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 1:22 pm

No, Thoughtsoncommontoad I will not 'change the record'. We anti-Jihadists have tolerated this crap for far too long. Remember this little comment of yours?

The only corners that criticise Islam are the very right-wing often racist vile xenophobes.

That statement is true, there is a rather disturbing alliance between critique of Islam and the far right. Mainstream criticism is stifled by multi-culturism, essentially post-modern relativist dogma.

The fact is, and I know you clearly can see the distinction, criticism of Islam is not racist (what the fuck is racism anyway, without a clear definition of race that's why I prefer xenophobia incidentally as a description) but the bulk of the criticism comes from the far right, well known for xenophobia.

I merely commented because it's so obviously a vacuous position to take (that criticism of Islam is racist), and so well known to be so, that to continually mention it is boring.

The only people who do make this criticism are politicians (what else do you expect with a significant muslim minority in most of western europe) and can therefore be written of as pandering and people who are not worth considering. Try and find a respectable commentator who actually calls criticism of Islam racist, not racially motivated because that as it stands is largely correct, but racist.

60. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198695 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 11:21 am

I'm going to point out that some of us have been mentioning little details like that and recieving nothing but outcries from certain people - you know who you are - outcries of of 'Fascist!' 'Racist!' 'It's all due to American foreign policy!' for quite some time.

Boring. Change the record, anyone who is sensible calls a spade a spade, you'll only find that coming from politicians and ignoramuses.

61. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198686 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 11:14 am

How can you be moral without God. Well for a start you don't marry a one year old.

62. Should We Rid The Mind of God? A Debate

Comment #198679 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 11:08 am

Here's how religious Americans are: Only 73 percent of the athiests don't believe in god.
http://improbable.com/...

63. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198657 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 10:50 am

Muhammad really is quite vile, Jesus wasn't that bad. Not great but relative to a warmongering paedo.

64. World Youth Day condom protest against Pope

Comment #198624 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 10:14 am

Condoms will be handed out to pilgrims en route to a papal Mass at Randwick Racecourse on World Youth Day as part of a protest against the Catholic Church's attitude to homosexuality, contraception and abortion.

and Child rape, support of dictators, stem cell research and science in general, jews, other christians. Should I go on?

65. Evolutionarily Preserved Signature Found In The Primate Brain

Comment #198621 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 24, 2008 at 10:10 am

TeraBrat

There's a reason for it or it wouldn't exist.

What are you talking about? Can you clarify. To talk of reasons seems strange in this context.

66. Richard Dawkins Public Lecture - Liverpool 08

Comment #198124 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 23, 2008 at 8:55 am

But after he won the nomination, I read this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/04/obama.victory/index.html

And name a president who hasn't taken this position apart from Carter and that was post-presidency.

67. Science teacher dissed evolution

Comment #196806 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 20, 2008 at 1:00 pm

The report confirmed that Freshwater burned crosses onto students' arms, using an electrostatic device, in December.

Freshwater told investigators the marks were X's, not crosses.

Oh that's ok then. For a minute there I thought he'd done something wrong.

68. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196093 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 19, 2008 at 9:35 am

A video of selected quotations from the Portable atheist.
Youtube - Einstein on God

"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

- Albert Einstein, according to the testimony of Prince Hubertus of Lowenstein; as quoted by Ronald W. Clark. Einstein: The Life and Times, p. 425.

69. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195493 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 18, 2008 at 10:35 am

The problem is the transition from how things appear subjectively to objective, testable properties.

This is bang on. How can we say anything is designed? I think it is merely a sliding scale of complexity (yes another vague term).

It is something which cannot be accounted for by "proximate" processes. Surely design in some way is related to the complexity of the processes needed for it to arise.

When we call something design its about proximity of processes. We see a watch on the beach. We observe the sea, the weather and we conclude this cannot have come about through these process it requires more complex processes. We look down the road and see a human village and we get our answer.

Same with a beaver damn, wasps nest. I suppose its the definition of the designer that we need to concentrate on.

70. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195473 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 18, 2008 at 9:43 am

Part of the difficulty I have with this concept is that I'm not sure how the sticks chimps use to fish for termites or, that crows use to fish for beetles, or the rocks otters use to smash open shellfish, are relevantly different from stone tools fashioned by our ancestors, or the laces I use to tie up my shoes. This part of the difficulty is: I'm not sure where the "intelligent" label comes in, and what would justify employing it.

I'm having that same problem.

It is something which cannot be accounted for by "proximate" processes. So a watch could not have reasonably come about by erosion for example. It needed more complex processes. Surely design in some way is related to the complexity of the processes needed for it to arise.

When we call something design its about proximity of processes. We see a watch on the beach. We observe the sea, the weather and we conclude this cannot have come about through these process it requires more complex processes. We look down the road and see a human village and we get our answer.

71. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195444 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 18, 2008 at 8:29 am

test

72. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195433 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 18, 2008 at 8:11 am

If you read The Extended Phenotype, you will see that it is pretty reasonable to consider beaver dams and wasp nests as under genetic control!

Yes (and I have) that's was one of my questions earlier, why do we call anything designed? And you're right we don't because design isn't the right word. It is something which cannot be accounted for by simple processes. So a watch could not have reasonably come about by erosion for example. It needed more complex processes. Surely design in some way is related to the complexity of the processes needed for it to arise.

We have an explanation for nature. Its an algorithm that's incredibly powerful, and it's actually a very simple process once it gets going. So when we call something design its about proximity of processes. We see a watch on the beach. We observe the sea, the weather and we conclude this cannot have come about through these process it requires more complex processes. We look down the road and see a human village and we get our answer.

73. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195430 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 18, 2008 at 8:03 am

May I ask though what do we call something, and what do we call designed.

For example is a beaver damn designed? Well yes because the processes of the rivers could not produce this only "something" else must have. So design is only inferred when the existing processes can not account for what we observe.

Is a wasps nest designed? Same process.

74. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #194985 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 17, 2008 at 1:45 pm

It is the replication with errors that does the trick - it allows selection from variation.

Yes very true.

I'm beginning to think I'm completely wrong. Take a computer virus. Given the fact the creator's intention could be very far removed from what the virus does, at the most basic level the virus was designed to perform whatever operations it performs and then replicate. Now it is other factors that would allow us to infer design.

What are those other factors? Well if we are an alien, knowing nothing of earth, and this alien set out to understand the natural world here on earth what would he conclude.

At what point do we call design design. A beaver dam, a wasps nest?

75. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #194975 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 17, 2008 at 1:33 pm

It was clearly designed, but it took a very long time to find out what its purpose was.

It was clearly designed to a human. Nothing is ever clearly designed. It was designed to a human perspective because of its scale and other factors like location surrounding area there was a lot of circumstantial evidence, the fact that we knew it was crafted by human hands etc.

You go down to the molecular level and look at another "box of cogs" the flagellar motor I don't think you can use the same argument.

I could be wrong.

76. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #194971 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 17, 2008 at 1:25 pm

If I may wade in

Design implies purpose. You design something for a purpose. You can't infer design without first identifying what the purpose of the designer would be.

77. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #193832 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 16, 2008 at 5:45 am

edit

78. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #193509 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 15, 2008 at 6:10 pm

I like Carl Sagan's version the best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPkMq6xhT6A

If you don't want to listen to all of it (although I don't know why you wouldn't) the part I'm referring to in particular is from 2:06.

79. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #193470 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 15, 2008 at 4:35 pm

For a debate to work, either creationists would have to accept scientific evidence in this area to be worth discussing, or the scientist would have to accept the bible as a useful source of information about the origin of species.

I've just had all the hope sucked out of me. Put like that doesn't it just want to make you scream. STOP BEING SO ARROGANT. To think the bible is any guide to the origin of species.

80. George W Bush meets Pope amid claims he might convert to Catholicism

Comment #193457 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm

"Anything is possible, especially for a born-again Christian such as Bush."

How True.

..."on ethical matters he has always had a line that is practically identical to that of the Vatican." Mr Bush has spoken out against gay marriage, abortion and stem cell research. He proposed amending the US constitution to "fully protect marriage" as the "union of man and woman as husband and wife".

Also the wonderful abstinence only program in Africa.

Catholics have noted that during the contested election in 2000, Jeb Bush travelled to Mexico and prayed to the icon of Our Lady of Guadelupe. His victory was announced by the Supreme Court on December 12, the feast day of the Lady of Guadelupe.

Wow Bush really is doing God's will.

81. Scientists confirm that parts of earliest genetic material may have come from the stars

Comment #193443 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 15, 2008 at 3:50 pm

Carl Sagan said on COSMOS 28 years ago, "We are all made of 'star stuff,'" referring to the fact that all heavier elements are forged in and by stars.

What he said was far more profound.

Some part of our being knows, this is where we came from, we long to return; and we can. Because the Cosmos is also within us, we're made of starstuff. We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.
- Carl Sagan

A Carl Sagan Goldmine

82. God and Science Collide in Nation's Capital

Comment #193432 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 15, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Codes that give detailed instructions on how to build nanotech machines are always the product of intelligence, this is the evidence we have - yet to be falsified because it is capable of withstanding intense critical scrutiny.

This is the problem with science by analogy. I've never been a fan of analogies as they limit thinking. If you actually understood what DNA was, not the pop science analogies you just wouldn't dream of saying this.

83. Stephen Hawking: ministers' £80m error puts science at risk

Comment #193431 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 15, 2008 at 3:25 pm

Hawking is incredible. I only hope brain research into speech will be advance quickly so he is freed from what must be the agony of being essentially locked in. Hope is a useless emotion but I do hope that happens.

84. Kerry O'Brien's exclusive interview with the Dalai Lama

Comment #192973 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 14, 2008 at 11:14 am

Primary motivation for religious belief? Ask the believer themselves. For example I assume Goodall assumes she's being humble in the statement I posted above, but in actual fact she is saying "the whole universe was created so I could experience that moment", the most arrogant statement possible.

So I think we arguing over primary motivation of individuals versus the most salient thing about religion itself: solipsism.

85. Kerry O'Brien's exclusive interview with the Dalai Lama

Comment #192962 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 14, 2008 at 10:43 am

Whenever I want to illustrate narcissm and arrogance I quote Jane Goodall.

When I was a child, born into a Christian family, I accepted the reality of an unseen God without question. And now that I have lived almost three quarters of a century I still believe in a great spiritual power. I have described elsewhere the experience I had when I first visited Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. When, as I gazed at the great rose window, glowing in the morning sun, the air was suddenly filled with the glorious sound of an organ playing Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor. It filled me with joy, brought tears to my eyes. How could I believe that blind chance had led to that moment in timeÃ¯Â¿Â½"the cathedral, the collective faith of those who had prayed and worshiped within, the genius of Bach, the emergence of a conscious mind that could, as mine did then, question the purpose of life on Earth. Was all the wonder and beauty simply the result of purposeless gyrations of bits of cosmic dust at the beginning of time? If not, then there must be some extra-cosmic power, the creator of the big bang. A purpose in the universe. Perhaps, one day, that purpose will be revealed.

It would be an incredible feat to find a more arrogant paragraph than that. It makes me ill reading it.

86. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192961 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 14, 2008 at 10:38 am

Steve,

I prefer Pale Blue Dot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfwY2TNehw

The folly of human conceits.

87. Kerry O'Brien's exclusive interview with the Dalai Lama

Comment #192943 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 14, 2008 at 10:04 am

If anyone wants a good resource for studying Buddhism I found this one very helpful

BUDDHISM

N.B Somebody mentioned Hinduism. Here's a great clip with Bill Bailey LINK

88. Kerry O'Brien's exclusive interview with the Dalai Lama

Comment #192935 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 14, 2008 at 9:45 am

Four Noble Truths

1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path

Noble Eightfold Path

Three Qualities	Eightfold Path
Wisdom (panna)	Right View
	Right Thought
Morality (sila)	Right Speech
	Right Action
	Right Livelihood
Meditation (samadhi)	Right Effort
	Right Mindfulness
	Right Contemplation

Three Characteristics of Existence

1. Transiency (anicca)
2. Sorrow (dukkha)
3. Selflessness (anatta)

Hindrances

1. Sensuous lust
2. Aversion and ill will
3. Sloth and torpor
4. Restlessness and worry
5. Sceptical doubt

Factors of Enlightenment

1. Mindfulness
2. Investigation
3. Energy
4. Rapture
5. Tranquillity
6. Concentration
7. Equanimity

89. Kerry O'Brien's exclusive interview with the Dalai Lama

Comment #192918 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 14, 2008 at 8:40 am

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html

The Hitch on Tenzin Gyatso, aka the 14th Dalai Lama.

90. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192259 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 3:36 pm

I doubt many people even though their IQs. I know I don't. I've taken a few online tests but these are often biased to be flattering to suborn payment. I was going to suggest an informal poll but how many people have taken a certified test?

91. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192158 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 1:50 pm

A survey of Royal Society fellows found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God - at a time when 68.5 per cent of the general UK population described themselves as believers.
...
A separate poll in the 90s found only seven per cent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God.
...
He said religious belief had declined across 137 developed nations in the 20th century at the same time as people became more intelligent.

There are no other factors than IQ. Just like the Bell Curve.

92. Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

Comment #192149 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Banning material requires a censor. Give them an inch they will take a mile. The idea that power is benign is the reason that "sensible" restrictions on liberties are allowed throughout Europe. In Britain the numbers of days a suspected terrorist (vaguely enough defined to mean anything) can be held without charge was extended to 42 days (still has to be passed by the Lords however). Democracy without an American style constitution is dangerous because people are stupid.

93. Report: Troubling texts at Va. Islamic school

Comment #192139 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 1:39 pm

If you closely read the story, it's not about banning the Quran itself that is the issue, but rather a series of the school's textbooks that endorse barbaric passages of the Quran.

I know what the story said I'm merely remarking on the inconsistency of the laws application. It shows it up for what it really is vote-mongering.

94. Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

Comment #192129 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 1:31 pm

It's my right as an American to go to any street corner and say that the Holocaust was a lie invented by Jews. Or that World War II never happened. Or that we never landed on the Moon...

Just listen to this says everything we can say only better

HITCHENS - FREEDOM OF SPEECH

95. Godless

Comment #192116 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 1:13 pm

I thought Atheists were all about collecting as much data as possible and then making an educated decision based on what the evidence seems to favor?

One speech by Obama does not make him a secularist. Especially when there are plenty of other speeches that show his sympathy for the oft-mentioned "Judeo-Christian roots of America".

He has repeated this a few times and it takes pride of place on his website. The fact is it's incredibly important that Obama gets in so that the when the next supreme court judge is appointed its not another conservative Christian. How many 5 to 4s does it take to show just how important this issue is.

96. Report: Troubling texts at Va. Islamic school

Comment #192100 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 12:53 pm

Hate speech surely? The Bible and the Qu'ran should be banned if consistency was valued. How is this double standard allowed?

97. Godless

Comment #192097 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 12:51 pm

Because Mr. Obama has said things that are the opposite of this speach...it's impossible to determine what he 'really' thinks. His critics on this website, I'm afraid, are spot on.

He hasn't, not contradictory, just less explicit.

98. Godless

Comment #192084 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Just to refresh: it was televangelist Pat Robertson who predicted "earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly even a meteor" would hit Orlando for inviting gays to Disney World, and Rev. John Hagee who blamed Hurricane Katrina on a vengeful God angered over a gay pride parade in New Orleans.

Even though I know they said this I still think it must be some kind of Onion type joke. Poe's Law.

99. Unlike Others, U.S. Defends Freedom to Offend in Speech

Comment #192081 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Britain has barely even a conception of Freedom of Speech. Incitement to Hatred, libel laws ...

100. Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

Comment #192077 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 12, 2008 at 12:27 pm

I saw the title and wondered why this was published in the Telegraph. The Telegraph? Then I saw who conducted the research, Richard Lynn. I now know why the Telegraph published. Sigh.

Let's not forget who Richard Lynn is.