51. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54225 by gordon on July 6, 2007 at 4:30 am

Henri,

Maybe morality evolves as our cognisance and understanding grows. It may become more powerful but Religion will, after its final destructive finale, diminish.

52. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54224 by gordon on July 6, 2007 at 4:27 am

Henri,

Compassion and pacifism are not the same. The aggressive use of our planet and resources is the biggest risk we face at present.

53. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54222 by gordon on July 6, 2007 at 4:23 am

Henri,

How do you define the marality for which you want proof?

54. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54219 by gordon on July 6, 2007 at 4:09 am

Henri,

How we got here is the subject or all sorts of debate, from pure reductionism, through religion and many other beliefs. The question surely, is where we want to go. Do we want an aggressive 'selfish gene' pure Darwinian world view (in the sense of a continual survival of the fittest route, my apologies Richard for clipping evolution like this) to guide us. Will we, with greater knowledge of our thought processes shake off our Darwinian nature to grow a society that values all its members and harnesses all our abilities with reward? I realise we are a long way off from this and most scientific advances are harnessed by the most 'aggressive' to further their comfort levels. Should we have an aim as a species at all? Surely our aim as a species is to combine our talents and cognisance to move from the planet to ensure our future place in the universe? Other than present physical threat, groups like Al Qaeda (and organised Religion) are a past world view. They have no future as science rolls away mystique after mystique. The hard work is to keep disaster at bay (war, disease, Global warming, Asteroid strike, etc) until we can attain our full potential. I am not a pacifist but I think compassion is underrated. Maybe compassion will be our greatest evolutionary advantage in the end. Who knows? We are, after all, a work in progress.

55. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54212 by gordon on July 6, 2007 at 3:31 am

HenriBergson,

Altruism can yeild pleasing results, love, companionship, friendship, necessary for group survival. Bonobo's and our other ape brothers (and sisters) show compassion, are they Christians?

56. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54206 by gordon on July 6, 2007 at 2:47 am

Can we find out where it is exactly please. I'd like to shrink mine so I can be a complete bastard and make more money. Will that be possible?

57. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54101 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 11:21 am

Josh,

Can we not have a way of getting to the end of the debate without going through the previous pages. If poss at the top of the screen. Thank you.

Kindest regards,

Gordon

58. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54100 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 11:20 am

Boy, I love the small of napalm in the morning! Can we not agree that US government imperialism is just as bad as any other past or coming? However, we also have to understand that present government policy is not necessarily people policy, just as, if free and fair elections were allowed in Iran, the results could be rather different. One of the problems in the US is that, as the system stacks up at present, unless you have mega-bucks, you cannot run for office. This makes the democratic process there rather strange to UK eyes. The American dream can be rather Hollywood in its approach. Hitchens himself can be tainted by his associates in this regard and although I am 100% with him on religion, I do worry about his political friends. They are not mine. Neither is the left. The left is peculiarly weak in the Islamic debate. One only has to look at the attempts of our London Mayor Ken The Red Livingstone to see how he tries to ingratiate himself with every US hating Mullah who pops up over the horizon. Same with TRH Tony Benn who defers to the chap upstairs when the going gets tough but hates America with every bone in his body. I do not want to apologise for every wrong the UK has done in the past and I think others need not either. It's like persecuting the Germans for the Nazis. If I were German I would be fed up with it now. My wife is English/Austrian. Her mother was in the Hitler youth. My mother in law makes great schnitzel but I don't moan about her past to my kids. If the US hadn't come into the Second World War we would all be Germanic now. Mistakes are endemic. No-one has a monopoly on moralistic truth. We are all feeling our way.

59. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54071 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 7:36 am

Xenocratic,
The hanging of Saddam was an act of vandalism, but then this happens regularly in the US where poor white trash and blacks are extinguished at an alarming rate. I am grateful this heinous system has been replaced here in the UK. None of the arguments on this board are clear cut affairs; rather they are, like global politics, multi-layered and complex. The US is a comparatively young country with a system of wealth production that has proved remarkably successful but it has a poor grasp of history. Its prominence is by default however, as others have failed to set a standard to match. The wars in Europe set us back a great deal but I can't think of a time when a state has offered a high moral standard for others to follow. Our Darwinian driven past has led us to the position we are in now. I can't think of any nation state that was not derived from rape and pillage by some strongman at some stage in history, and later by strong states. The question is, I think, can we live our future without this Darwinian drive? Can we live with a larger portion of altruism within our systems? Can we view the Human Race as a whole, above and beyond our individual tribes? Events on the ground are moving faster than our collective cognisance, population overgrowth, global warming, more powerful weapons etc. Nation states will get weaker as the world gets more communicated and who did what in the past will matter less. I don't think the US should apologise for its history, nor should Europe, its pointless. It's time to start looking at a world we would like to live in and shaping that. The Arabs have a very large chip on their collective shoulders but this is perpetuated by their poor choice of leaders and scribes over the past few hundred years, supported by western interests for oil and treasure. Zionism is their get out clause for negating self help. When they are free of Western and Western backed oppression, they will fight between themselves for supremacy. This will be a long and messy process. Meanwhile events will move on elsewhere. Unless, and I say this without recourse to religion, some organisation or individual has the vision and drive to put forward a moral programme that captures the imagination and collective will of our race. I suspect however, it will be collective desperation that will be the driving force.

60. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54046 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 4:55 am

Fanusi,

It could be argued that fascism still exists as part of the Catholic Church

61. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54042 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 4:23 am

PewKatchoo,

Agree on Africa. On top of all this it looks as though climate change will hit them even worse than anyone else. What do we do then, shoot them as they travel North? It never rains but it pours. Mnay Muslims know who is who. It doesn't take long to see what a belief is if you are in the community. The moderates shield the others as to confront them is to confront their own faith. This takes time. We are not that far removed from similar events throughout Europe with our own past or present beliefs. Was Shipman deluded or mad? Does delusion become madness if is on an individual level, or accepted in a group? What happens to failed martyrs when they die? Bacteria does most of the work and then they are recycled as part of the marvelous universe of which we are all a part.

62. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54039 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 4:12 am

Fanusi Khiyal,

'in the same way that Facism and Communism were wiped from existence.'

When did that happen? Discredited yes, but gone?

63. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54033 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 2:57 am

HunterZolomon,

I forgive you. Any of those horny helmets available?

64. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54029 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 2:32 am

PPS, Just to add to US foreigh policy, the same can be said of Russian (gangsta capitalism), China etc. The big shame is lack of EU balls.

65. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #54026 by gordon on July 5, 2007 at 2:30 am

Pewkatchoo,

Why is a doctor any less of a killer than anyone else? Does Shipman ring a bell? Bin Laden's right hand man is a doctor. One can never know the mind of another. I have been married for 28 years and my wife still pops up with surprises. However, I can guarantee to spot an Al Qaeda sympathiser within three minutes of personal conversation. I've spent years with these chaps, been shot at and broken bread with them. They cannot hide their contempt for Western values. It is as political a movement as any other dogma can be. Muslims know them in their midst. Some chose to bury their heads in sand, others to ignore it and others still carry a large chip on their shoulders about past 'injustices'. They need to learn to 'park it' as the Americans say. I don't get upset about the Romans invading Britain or William conquering England but every Muslim cleric will talk at length about the injustice of the Crusades. They also talk about their Muslim brothers but do all they can to cause each other problems, like school children. It is a much splintered faith, tribal in its detail. The two cancers at the core of this are oil and Israel. We need to suck oil from the region and have placated every fat, misogynist, mucilaginous, manipulative dictator in order to do so. There are no clean hands in this region or those who deal there. There are innocents however, and they suffer the same as any others in such a conflict. Sadly, they always will. I was in favour of the removal of Saddam but appalled by the lack of planning for the aftermath. US foreign policy couldn't run a sweet shop never mind a region. I am in favour also of the removal of Mugabe before another disaster hits Africa, but as he has no oil, it seems unlikely. South Africa could have taken a lead there (as with Aids) but Mbeke and others are too conscious of their colonial past to see one of their revolutionary brothers as a monster.

PS, there seems to be a great many personal insults on this board. I thought it should be an exchange of views. It is a shame that others coming to the board are labelled Trolls. I would like some Muslin, Evangelical and Creationist contributors come and air their case.

66. At a Theater Near You ...

Comment #53957 by gordon on July 4, 2007 at 11:39 am

Pewkatchoo,

You say,

'As to the final point of the article. I would suggest that it is already too late. I think that relations between Muslims and everyone else have already been poisoned beyond easy repair. It is going to be very difficult for people to trust Islam any more.'

I have a great many Muslim friends. I even brought one chap into the country from Yemen to work in a London hospital as a plastic surgeon. He works here still, passing another examination last week (for which I give thanks to the Celestial Teapot, Blessed Be Its Lid). Guess who was the first to get a call when he passed? They are far removed form these lunatics as is possible and they are still my friends. I helped a Palestinian friend who worked for me in the Middle East to get residency in Ireland, where he now has children and is very happy thank you. The events of this week have not soured my affection for them or their families. Whilst agreeing that all religious moderates support the extremists (fundamentalists) by their acquiescence, the people at the top have to be seen in the light of their actions. These people are gangsters, we should stop calling them terrorists. You do not see a cleric strapping a bomb to his body and launching himself at a nightclub full of slags. You hear him convincing others to do so. The people on whom the message falls are not always disenfranchised but they are brainwashed. It is after all a very powerful message. Our own message is too weak. We set a poor example in the manner in which we have lived our lives over the last couple of centuries in the worship of capitalism and money. I am not suggesting that capitalism should or could be replaced but I am suggesting that the systems we have at present are jaded and overgrown. We are over populated (as a planet) and for everyone to have what we have is not possible within the resources we have available. Something has to give. Science will provide many answers, it always does, but we need to have a say in how the science is used by powerful corporations and governments or we will simply exacerbate the condition. In the mean time, the problems will get worse. Any time soon the US will attack Iran. Pakistan will explode and the Saudi monarchy will be overthrown. Yemen is already on the brink, partly due to Al Qaeda and partly due to the extraordinary corruption of the rulers there and in many other Middle East countries. Fasten your belts; it will be a long and bumpy ride.

67. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #53956 by gordon on July 4, 2007 at 11:37 am

chezzyd,

I prefer not to have any of them in power over me. I rather hope that our liberal democratic ideals will grow and grow.

Xenocratic,
Thank you. I prefer a quiet debate rather than shouting or name calling. The US is far from having clean hands. None of us have.

Pewkatchoo,

You say in the other debate,

'As to the final point of the article. I would suggest that it is already too late. I think that relations between Muslims and everyone else have already been poisoned beyond easy repair. It is going to be very difficult for people to trust Islam any more.'

I have a great many Muslim friends. I even brought one chap into the country from Yemen to work in a London hospital as a plastic surgeon. He works here still, passing another examination last week (for which I give thanks to the Celestial Teapot, Blessed Be Its Lid). Guess who was the first to get a call when he passed? They are far removed form these lunatics as is possible and they are still my friends. I helped a Palestinian friend who worked for me in the Middle East to get residency in Ireland, where he now has children and is very happy thank you. The events of this week have not soured my affection for them or their families. Whilst agreeing that all religious moderates support the extremists (fundamentalists) by their acquiescence, the people at the top have to be seen in the light of their actions. These people are gangsters, we should stop calling them terrorists. You do not see a cleric strapping a bomb to his body and launching himself at a nightclub full of slags. You hear him convincing others to do so. The people on whom the message falls are not always disenfranchised but they are brainwashed. It is after all a very powerful message. Our own message is too weak. We set a poor example in the manner in which we have lived our lives over the last couple of centuries in the worship of capitalism and money. I am not suggesting that capitalism should or could be replaced but I am suggesting that the systems we have at present are jaded and overgrown. We are over populated (as a planet) and for everyone to have what we have is not possible within the resources we have available. Something has to give. Science will provide many answers, it always does, but we need to have a say in how the science is used by powerful corporations and governments or we will simply exacerbate the condition. In the mean time, the problems will get worse. Any time soon the US will attack Iran. Pakistan will explode and the Saudi monarchy will be overthrown. Yemen is already on the brink, partly due to Al Qaeda and partly due to the extraordinary corruption of the rulers there and in many other Middle East countries. Fasten your belts; it will be a long and bumpy ride.

68. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #53905 by gordon on July 4, 2007 at 3:39 am

Xenocratic

The historical reasons for disenfranchisement for much of the population all over the planet are there for anyone studying history. This is true even within American social groups. This disenfranchisement or the need to be within a tribe is possibly the reason that religion exists anyway. The US does not do much in the name of altruism, it's mostly about trade. Here in the UK we only recently finished the payments to the US for the mortgage we took out to fight the Second World War. The fact that the US gets to use its power for good or bad is exacerbated by European states who haven't got their act together and offered a balancing position. Europe is particularly weak on World affairs. The Presidency of George Bush as an extension of an oil cartel business is a poor advert for the democratic system in the US. The World moves around money. We exploit others to get it, as individuals or groups. Religions move around money in a great many cases. I spent a great deal of time in the Middle East before and after 11/9. I met many members of Al Qaeda before they were associated with this type of bombing. Originally they wanted US help to set up a Caliphate throughout the Middle East, something which would be beneficial to all sides. I even introduced one group to the US Embassy here in the UK. They were convinced they would be encouraged by the US to avoid 'instability' in the area but from the start they only looked upon a deal as a temporary solution. There are no poor controllers in these groups. Extortion and obligation is part and parcel of the running method. Total control is what they want. The US has many faults but it is an evolving democracy and I hope the UK will do its part now Blair has gone. Al Qaeda has no room for doubt or change. It has no rational core. One either believes or one is out of the loop. Here in the UK we have been through long bombing campaigns by the IRA (financed by the US by the way) but the IRA were not nihilists. Al Qaeda's dream is a nihilistic society, no room for dreams, excitement, free thought, human passion or advancement. The Enlightenment is under threat from many sources, not least from evangelicals and other numpties but the Al Qaeda vision is the worst sort of living death imaginable, particularly if you happen to be female. As such it should be easy to defeat by showing how human beings can work toward a world fit for all its inhabitants. We are still evolving and only just beginning to see our place in the universal scheme but we have a long way to go. Al Qaeda is a blip on the journey, a bump in the road. We have to fight it with everything at our disposal whilst not losing sight of our own morality and purpose.

69. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53837 by gordon on July 3, 2007 at 1:18 pm

Rtambree

Just had a bottle of wine with my wife so i'll answer tomorrow.

70. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53832 by gordon on July 3, 2007 at 12:43 pm

Ouch, I think our debate just ended!

71. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #53818 by gordon on July 3, 2007 at 11:29 am

I thought I'd share this,

Smoke me

I've made a bomb at last
I got the design online
A terrorist manual, an anarchist cookbook
Imagine if your kids have time
It's all there if you take a look

I've searched for the ingredients
As if I was just shopping
Picking up the groceries
Careful now, no dropping
Place them in the truck
But careful when you take a ride
If your boot is full of stuff
Like Carbon Tetrachloride

Military detonation cord
No problem, it's available
I've drilled the holes in the pipe
Everything is saleable
I'm really just a gardener
I do it for the pleasure
It's just for the allotment
Ammonia nitrate in large measure

Mercury fulminate powder
Improvising and experimenting
Information from foreign lands
I let young boys do all the work
I don't want hooks for hands

And as for the targets of this action
I'm not quite sure yet
Am I in this just for God?
Or some self important sage
Will innocents and children
Be victims of this rage?
It doesn't really matter to me
I'm insulated from guilt and sin
The powdered aluminium
Is packed within the bin
I've placed some nails and shards of glass
To give it extra bite
They've told me I must consecrate
To go and fight the fight

To get my look in keeping,
I've grown a long dark beard,
So when the media photograph,
I'll have that look of fear,
There's no room for a hesitant,
On the road to militant.

And when I've done the deed,
Guided by my spiritual mentors
There'll be virgins aplenty
For my carnal delectation
On and on for all eternity

Take a long look at yourself
By the time you've reached this stage
You've become a viscous mixture
Of failure and rage

I've become an aberration
A product of a vacuous theology
They were smiling at my gullibility
As I imbibed their ideology
It's too late now
My brains are being splattered
In this blossoming paroxysm
Destroying all that mattered

The only thing that's left
As I drift away in smoke
Beside the pain and innocence
The smouldering remains
The blame and protestations
Claims and counter claims
Is the obvious corruption
Of which I've played my part
The persuading and cajoling
The manipulators art
The result is my martyrdom
Myth behind the trigger
The seductive kiss of faith
Toxic from the giver

72. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53786 by gordon on July 3, 2007 at 6:20 am

rokort,

Art is a language like any other. It can state the truth or it can be held to facilitate spectacular lies. This is why it cannot be judged in present terms of reference. It can record or merely titillate the senses, or, when at its greatest it can illuminate and question. The direction and use is down to the artist but not necessarily under the artist's control. My argument is that the arts and science in their basic forms are symbiotic in the quest for human understanding.

73. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53784 by gordon on July 3, 2007 at 6:11 am

Rtrambree,

We all have to lift our game. The starting pay for scientists is absolutely pathetic. The media is run, not by arts graduates (although I don't dispute this could be the case) but by barons who dictate the programme for financial gain, The art market is run as a closed loop in a similar manner, one is invited in only if one is seen as a potential sales boost. This is just the state of things, its no use bemoaning the fact. These are the ground rules within which we have to operate. As for Paris Hilton, she lives in a parallel universe I think. If I had a small pittance of her cash I could get large amounts of work finished, but that's filed under tough shit. I agree most scientists operate within their own cocoons and we need more elucidation by such people as Dawkins, Dennet et all. Reductionism can be depressing if taken to its extreme but my view of humanity and our place in the universe has been brightened by my reading from science, not dulled. I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone can believe in any religion, especially after my time in the Middle East, but they do and we have to work within those parameters. I agree that artists and philosophers should not parade a set of answers, but I do think we can help set the questions and illuminate the answers when found.

PS, I don't think Richard had his breeding opportunities reduced by his science.

74. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53750 by gordon on July 3, 2007 at 2:47 am

Morning Rtambree,

Not sure I agree with your point about scientists being in the best position to do the breakthroughs. Scientists prove and peer review the breakthroughs. Many others come up with a hypothesis. A hypothesis can be an illumination before the hard work of proof and can come from many a source. As a great fan of Douglas Adams I can see the stretch of his imagination as visionary but I never saw his work peer reviewed or classed as science. His art form was literature; his love was science, the result science fiction. I hear emotional cries from Stephen Hawking to P Z Myers and Carl Sagan, often before 'proof' is available. A work that is viable should prompt enquiry, not merely record. We have photography to record. It should prompt debate, not merely record a past or immediate event. Intuition is much undervalued as a starting point. I'm sure Einstein and Newton knew its worth. A Hawking hypothesis on the universe are not yet provable, more intuition than fact as we understand it now. He 'feels' his way forward. Scientists do not always make the breakthroughs but they do prove them. Beauty is certainly not truth but there is beauty in truth. The point is, one has to look for truth with whatever tool we have at our disposal. Our cognisance prompts enquiry, not acceptance, at an astounding range of levels. Art should pose questions. Science seeks to answer. Unfortunately most people see the 'use' of science and not the science itself. Science, like art, is swamped by its value in monetary terms at the hands of industrial manipulators. I am not making a judgement on this but the original article makes great play of the cultural visibility of the arts as oppose to science. Scientists need to raise their game in terms of presentation. This can, and often is, broached by art as a bedfellow of science. Observation is an ally of both, intuition is a great fuel.

75. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53674 by gordon on July 2, 2007 at 1:37 pm

My point is that a seeking and rational world view is not exclusive to 'scientists'. There are many scientists who believe in God or even a particular faith with all the rules and regulations therein. I do not but am willing to be proved wrong if the evidence arises. I also cannot distinguish between thinking as an artist to that of thinking as of a scientist or philosopher. Where is the dividing line? I agree that most art on high visibility public view is eye candy or media induced but they tend not to pass the test of time. That is because we live in a capitalist society where everything is value assessed for it's immediate worth. Things get sorted over time to their actual worth, not its monetary value. I don't think there is such a thing as a good piece as against a bad piece in the same manner as there is not good science or bad science. There is just science. You could of course criticise technique but this only relates to what the canvas or piece looks like. In some art there is actually content. This is missing from the celebrity works who attempt to add it with great post modernist proclamations. I remember a girl in the sculpture department when I was at college, hanging some soiled tampons up on a line for her final show (this was twenty years before Tracey Emin remember) and posting a big long explanation on the wall for the visitor. After reading the impenetrable text I still didn't have a clue as to what the work was about but she got a first anyway. Like Tracey Emin's piles of junk, although stirring a surge of initial interest, it seems like intellectual popcorn, candy floss for the mind; go home and you forget it. This is only the contemporary celebrity stuff. Others carry on in pursuit of greater goals and understanding. Is it any different to a scientist working quietly to a greater understanding of the truth?

76. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53664 by gordon on July 2, 2007 at 12:49 pm

Eye candy? Why does art have to be beautiful. Do we just have to paint pretty flowers in a vase? No artist ever discovered any deep universal truths? Leonardo Da Vinci? There is no separation between art and science, only in those who try and create one? We all look at life and try to understand our position. We all add a small brick to the monolithic wall of human understanding. We all operate with the same materials. Only an idiot will declare himself as an artist who sees the truth, the same type of idiot who as a scientist declares himself the one and only word. Your view of art seems to limit itself to the forms seen on the South Bank Show or on Tony Hart. Maybe you like Damien Hirst as he uses a lot of formaldehyde? Is the Hitch's view on religion a faux pas because he is not a scientist. Science is a world view, not a subject. What was discovered by great scientists in the past is now known and understood by schoolchildren. Does this make them poor examples? If you go to look at art just for dessert my friend, you are missing the main course. Your knowledge of art is as bad as the examples of those in the survey whose knowledge of science was poor. Basic concepts such as humans' relation to the cosmos, age of the Earth, anthropology, genes, etc is within the ability of every normal human. It is also the subject of much art. And I do know how old the earth is. I read it up!

77. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53651 by gordon on July 2, 2007 at 12:01 pm

PS, I also paint Altar pieces

78. The new age of ignorance

Comment #53648 by gordon on July 2, 2007 at 11:54 am

Rtambree,

I am a painter. As far back as I can remember, I have drawn, sketched, doodled, jotted and painted. I tend to see everything as a 'picture', even scientific concepts or abstract thought. The work I produce as results of this cognitive process, despite being conceived in an abstract ferment, end as figurative works. To take an abstract thought and attempt to correlate it with our physical situation, explore, explain it and represent the results in a work of art, or science, or philosophy seems to be much more worthy than to continue to prolong it as an abstraction or as conceptual. If I had therefore to list 'painting' influences, I would probably list Stanley Spencer, Vermeer, Hogarth, Daumier, Giotto, Fuselli, Holman–Hunt, Leonardo Da Vinci, Joseph Wright of Derby, Schiele, Munch, Bruegel, Rembrandt and Otto Dix, although an appreciation of every influence would be difficult to list (and probably very boring as this list is already becoming). This list is only the 'painterly' influences, which is only a very small part of why or what I paint. Influences include, music, science, politics, philosophy, living, breathing, family, pets, seeing plants grow, watching birds sing and feed, fear of this or that, all recorded, stored and interpreted within an incredible piece of software (or not so incredible as the case may be), the human brain. To quote one source is simplistic and limiting. The trouble with listing influences is that it's usually a method of neatly placing you into a package and then moving on. That's a shame because I really don't see any contemporary painters with whom I would feel comfortable or even remotely related. I much prefer the discourse with science and philosophy to that of art alone. Why the separation? It wasn't always thus. A fascination and burning curiosity with life around us is surely one shared by science, philosophy and art in all their categories as a means of rational enquiry? I don't align myself with any artistic groups and I rarely meet other painters. Maybe science is the new Art. It seems to be the only thing left that speaks truthfully of awe and wonder. We will never have the complete picture but at least we can see clearer with each revealed truth. This also has the added dimension, with each new discovery, of shifting the horizon and the perspective with which we view it. I also love the fact that science will open itself to scrutiny and subject every theory to rigorous debate and innumerable tests. If a flaw can be found then it will be exposed or explained. This doesn't happen over night in all cases, some hypotheses' carry on for a very long time until new facts expose them as fallacious, but each piece of ignorance is seen as a challenge to science, not as a failure or as a reason not to look further. As others study science and religion, I paint Alter pieces in a traditional style. Alter pieces to an atheistic world view, my way of understanding the universe. If I'd had the ability I would have liked to have been a biologist. As it is, my strengths are elsewhere. Don't confuse the celebrity culture of art in the media with other avenues. Art and science are brothers from the same womb, viewed from the same source, the human brain.

79. Egypt mufti says female circumcision forbidden

Comment #52814 by gordon on June 28, 2007 at 6:11 am

Corylus,…Thank you. I tend to be earthy!

Shuggy,… To my knowledge this type of circumcision has been stopped. Certainly I never saw anything of this kind during the eight years I worked there (on and off) and I met a lot of tribal elders from areas most people don't visit. It's unusual for a patriarchal society to come up with anything particularly bad for men unless it is to subjugate a certain class or type, i.e. slaves or as punishment or retribution. Women on the other hand, or those at your right hand………that's different.

80. Egypt mufti says female circumcision forbidden

Comment #52581 by gordon on June 27, 2007 at 10:38 am

PS, Mind_Rebel. FGM is not circumcision. Don't confuse the two. And FGM is not surgery!

81. Egypt mufti says female circumcision forbidden

Comment #52558 by gordon on June 27, 2007 at 9:26 am

I read these discussions every day but I don't often post. Today I thought I'd make an exception. During my time working in Yemen I was continually questioned about my apparent excess of baggage (a foreskin). Why had my parents been so cruel, Allah will be shocked, its unclean etc. The same people were equally shocked at my apparent non-belief in God (or Religion). It was discussed regularly during the afternoon qat chewing sessions and I used to sketch and write poetry to note some of the discussions. The comments about the excess on my appendage must have rankled as I found the following poem in one of my sketchbooks; -

Foreskin,

Oh how I'm glad for my hooded crow.
With its endless supply of cheese.
Not once have I wanted the cut of my jib,
For some pointless maxim to please.
It slips up a treat,
Gelled up so sweet,
And pouts around a layer of smegma.
Like a wrinkly old snout,
When it's in or its out,
My own, my very own member.

Personally I don't care what anyone does below as long as it's not done to a child but we chaps have nothing to complain about when it comes to bodily mutilation. What I discovered about female GM is a completely different kettle of fish and it is very, very common in the Middle East and Africa. Just imagine chaps, some old hag arrives at your house at the behest of your 'loving' family and proceeds to hack off your dangly bits with a not so clean implement, throws it on the ground and then stitches you up with some grubby nylon thread. You can't urinate correctly; you get infections, severe period pains, cystitis, odours and when it comes to childbirth, doesn't bear thinking about. Later, you can look forward to being stitched up again, childlike, to make your husband a happy man. The only thing to console you is the fact that at least you will be able to encourage your own daughter, when the time arrives, to be closer to Allah!