51. Broken symmetry: Answering the solace of quantum

Comment #263071 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 10, 2008 at 7:44 am

Don Quix> That's a reasonable assertion... We have to make some distinction, however, or we end up not being able to talk about anything useful without lapsing into meaningless philosophical discussions about the relative nature of reality.

Since I happen to enjoy those meaningless discussions... Does anyone else find it plausible, with the concept that anti-matter is simply matter moving backwards in time, that the Big Bang created two universes, one moving each direction through time, and therefore the balance is still a possibility? Would that not avoid the matter-antimatter collisions that would negate the entire effect?

edit: WAY too many commas in one sentence, but I don't feel like correcting it.

52. Heavy Metal-Eating 'Superworms' Unearthed in U.K.

Comment #263065 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 10, 2008 at 7:31 am

Vinelectric> Presumably something would have to be done to prevent issues with biomagnification in the areas where these worms would be used. Nets over the landfill to prevent predation by birds? Things like shrews would be nearly impossible to keep out, however.

53. Mysterious Snippets Of DNA Withstand Eons Of Evolution

Comment #262621 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 9, 2008 at 4:53 am

It seems rather improbable that these sections of DNA aren't used for anything at all and yet persist across phylogenetic divisions. Either the sequences are attached to something useful when copied (end of a sequence for an important protein, etc), or they serve some purpose that we haven't ascertained yet. Ontogenetic timing perhaps?

54. Dawkins: a theologian's perspective

Comment #261064 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 6, 2008 at 11:35 am

Full of logical fallacies, as is to be expected. At least this author appears to have perused the entire table of contents, and possibly even to have read some of the book. he clearly didn't understand all of it... but it's a start. Too bad it doesn't make any of his arguments more than the load of collops they are.

55. Bill Maher's Religulous Opens Today

Comment #260634 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 5, 2008 at 7:20 pm

Just returned from seeing this... in Raleigh NC. Not many in the theatre, which is to be expected here, but it was well received by those who were there. For my own personal amusement, and the semi-opposing viewpoint, I took my Christian GF... she liked it, and seemed to take some of the points well. She is, as many of those interviewed in the film, undereducated about her own religion... I think that the way in which Maher gets his point across is likely to have more success with those who are wavering (or at least moderate) in their beliefs than the more forceful approach does.
There are definitely portions where the "Expelled/Michael Moore" approach is obvious... certainly over the top at points. The film is quite worth viewing, regardless of your opinions of Maher.

56. Opiate of the masses - and evolutionary aid

Comment #260145 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 4, 2008 at 6:23 pm

JeremyH> Reading the actual article (thanks brokenglass), the authors' implication is that the large-scale effect of religion is due to the influence of egoistic factors, i.e. that large societies bound by religion succeed more because of it, but due rather to the desire for positive social image rather than purely altruistic reasons. Any apparent altruism is for selfish reasons, and therefore would have to apply to the founders as well (note apparent).

57. Seeing Red and Blue Can Divide a Species - of Fish

Comment #260083 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 4, 2008 at 3:26 pm

popeye> true isolation isn't necessary when distance will do... the article does comment on intermediate forms present in the lake. I imagine, without having seen the actual research article, that this is a smaller scale version of the effect seen with herring and black-backed gulls across the northern hemisphere: Two distinct species at the ends of the range, with interbreeding of both in between.

58. Have-a-go deaths are never a waste

Comment #258475 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on October 2, 2008 at 4:51 am

I would agree with Grayling that it is ethical and necessary to intervene in such a situation, with the stipulation that the intervention taken should have a reasonable chance of success attached to it. I don't consider it realistic for someone's grandmother to attempt to physically intervene to stop a beating... but she should certainly call the police and report the incident immediately.

Leo (#2)> I had a similar situation. I worked as a bouncer while in grad school.... removed a patron for hitting his girlfriend with a closed fist in the middle of the bar, only to be bottled by her in the back of the head while I carried the guy who hit her down the stairs to the door. It won't make me decide not to intervene again, except in the case of that particular female, who can have all the beatings she likes now.

59. Brunswick school board to consider creationism teaching

Comment #256498 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 29, 2008 at 7:23 am

beanson> Just read the end of your post... I was Sci Department Chair for one of the middle schools for 3 years, and taught a year at another. I can say of my colleagues at the middle and high school level that they certainly were not teaching creationism. Some of them did not accept evolution, and may not have taught that either (I know of two middle school teachers who refused on the grounds that they didn't accept it), but those of us with some academic integrity would not have allowed creationism to be taught. As for those that I worked with that wouldn't teach evolution, I took their classes for that unit with them as "assistants" (they handled discipline while I covered content).

60. Brunswick school board to consider creationism teaching

Comment #256480 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 29, 2008 at 7:04 am

Decius>
They didn't inform us ahead of time what was on the agenda. I dealt with the choir, but walked out when the sermon began. Walked back in when I heard the applause for the end of it. Blatantly not attending would have been grounds for dismissal, although I'm sure there would have been a lawsuit in it.

61. Brunswick school board to consider creationism teaching

Comment #256338 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 29, 2008 at 4:38 am

Lovely... I taught in Brunswick County for my first four years.. This is not at all surprising of a Board who made us sit through a gospel choir and sermon at the beginning of a compulsory in-service for all district teachers. I will be writing them, yet again. I encourage posters here to write the Wilmington Star-News, as well as contact board members to explain to them where they've erred. Incidentally, most of these people (if you look at the school district's website) are active members in various churches as elders, etc...

Katie McGee, Superintendent kmcgee@bcswan.net

Shirley Babson, Board Chair sbabson@bcswan.net ; sbabsonbdofed@hotmail.com

Charles Miller cmiller@bcswan.net

Ray Gilbert raygilbertnc@yahoo.com

Jimmy Hobbs jimmy@hobbsrealty.com

Scott Milligan smilligan@bcswan.net

B Joseph Causey, BOARD ATTORNEY
5285 Main Street
Shallotte, NC 28470
(910) 755-6414 *no email listed*



Edit: as for "policing" the classrooms, Dr. McGee likes to wander into classes while they're being conducted. And while, yes, a number of these students are going to end up as "gun loving god fearing idiots" (thanks Laurie), there are a number of them who wouldn't be to go along with a growing number of families from less backward parts of the U.S.

62. 'All Terrorists are Darwinists': An Interview with Harun Yahya

Comment #252593 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 23, 2008 at 11:43 am

There are over 100 million fossils that prove creationism. And these fossils have never changed. A fish has remained a fish, a shrimp has remained a shrimp. You can find these fossils all over the world. We've put them on display in Turkey too, and people have seen them with their own eyes. That is clear proof. Unlike creationism, Darwinism has no proof of evolution theory. Its adherents haven't found any fossil evidence they could use.

63. Interstellar Space Molecules That Help Form Basic Life Structures Identified

Comment #251775 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 22, 2008 at 4:33 am

Quantum flux> I didn't until I bothered to look him up... I find myself wavering between humour and disgust when confronted with the ideas of that crowd. That, and I have to try REALLY hard not to sneer when they re-hash the same argument for the 100th time.

64. Genes might not be so selfish after all

Comment #250210 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 19, 2008 at 4:36 am

Greyman> you've missed part of my point. The epigenetic changes remain in place for multiple generations even AFTER the environmental stimulus causing the changes in expression have gone? The research I've looked at doesn't imply that at all, which means reading anything else into it is speculation at best. Granted, there may be something I haven't looked at that implies that. As an adaptational mechanism epigenetics is certainly interesting, but unless something peer-reviewed shows that the changes persist without an environmental need for them, Linklater's point is false.



EDIT> Just realised while doing something else that your correction may have been intended toward my comment on somatic cells, in which case I have no defense other than "Oh, ok, you're right". Maybe I should read and post responses at a time when one of my colleagues isn't babbling about something...

65. Eoin Colfer to write sixth Hitchhiker's Guide book

Comment #249864 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 18, 2008 at 3:23 pm

I'll read it, even while expecting to be disappointed, simply because it's another HHG book. At least he isn't pretending to be Adams. On that note, I'd have rathered see Terry Pratchett attempt this, as I'm familiar with his style and think it would fit HHG well. I've heard rumours the poor man has alzheimer's, however.

66. It's All In The Hips: Early Whales Used Well Developed Back Legs For Swimming, Fossils Show

Comment #249859 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 18, 2008 at 3:19 pm

MrStray/Poe>

I took a couple of classes in Marine Mammology from a pair of experts in the field, and we extensively covered cetacean evolution. I've physically seen transitional fossils (on loan from somewhere presumably) as well as a number of nice photos of them. I'd like to see Dr. Simmons' response to the PCR's we ran in the lab comparing modern whale DNA with that of other extant vertebrates (since I can always use a good laugh).
Also, as I like to point out to peope that say whales had to be created as is, that there aren't any transitional forms: Ever seen a hippopotamus?

67. Genes might not be so selfish after all

Comment #249230 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 17, 2008 at 7:10 pm

My take on the article: 1) yes, genes, or at least their EXPRESSION, can be impacted by environmental factors. The basis for the article was not incorrect in that respect.
2) This is not a revelation in research, it's been known for a while.
3) Using the idea to postulate validity for Larmarckism (which the author does, wittingly or not) is absolute rubbish. The entire premise in this case is wrong. Unless there is something physically modifying the genetic code, i.e. a mutation, the "acquired characteristics" only express when the environmental factors that caused that expression are present. Therefore, it isn't an acquired at all, but a response to the external environment that has been prescribed by that gene. Changes in somatic cells, which the medical journals he cites are discussing, aren't in fact passed on to offspring.

So he chose to re-hash valid science and misinterpret it.Lovely.

68. Knowledge regained

Comment #245759 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 11, 2008 at 11:53 am

Pussy-footing around is a good tactic if and only if it gets someone to pull their fingers out of their ears long enough to listen to you. Perhaps GENTLY informing them that they're wrong and why? Admittedly there is a point where you just run out of patience.

69. Teachers should tackle creationism, says science education expert

Comment #245744 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 11, 2008 at 11:44 am

Reiss agreed that creationism and intelligent design are not scientific theories, but he said that did not automatically exclude them from science lessons. "Just because something lacks scientific support doesn't seem to me a sufficient reason to omit it from the science lesson …

Reiss, who is an ordained Church of England minister, told the British Association Festival of Science in Liverpool that science teachers should not see creationism as a "misconception" but as an alternative "world view". He added that he was not advocating devoting the same time to teaching creationism or intelligent design as to evolution.

This is an inappropriate and insulting use of the phrase child abuse as anybody who has ever worked â€" as incidentally I have over many years with children who have been either sexually or physically abused â€" knows."

70. 'Climate crisis' needs brain gain

Comment #244924 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 9, 2008 at 8:02 pm

valliantcourtroch> locri's post covers the errors pretty well.. the issue I have with the film, consciousness raising or not, is that it provides fodder for those are are unwilling to accept AGW on the current evidence by making it appear that there is some sort of absurd conspiracy promoting the theory (see some of the posts above for examples of that thinking). Gore could have made a worthwhile documentary using valid science and chose to sensationalise instead.

71. 'Climate crisis' needs brain gain

Comment #244915 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 9, 2008 at 6:55 pm

Francis Clarke> my post to you was neither an insult, nor did it ignore your claim. I did however ask a reasonable question regarding what scientific literature on the topic you've actually read. Care to respond, or shall I mark you as a troll? You make the assertion that acceptance of AGW amounts to faith, and I'm looking for you to at least admit that you've read some of the broader peer-reviewed lit on the topic, as my suspicion (which is mostly hunch with some very weak evidence) is that you have not. If you'd like some suggestions, I'll take up the challenge that Decius chose to avoid (more because he's finding you obnoxious rather than because the sources aren't out there): http://www.ipcc.ch/

have a look at those for starts... I think you'll find that there is a good deal of evidence. If you want specific peer-reviewed articles I can suggest some of those as well, but you'll find them to be a bit tedious without the proper background.




Comment 110> I can see the point you think you're making, and it would be great if that were the only issue associated with a warming trend. Rising sea levels won't just flood nations that are 3' above sea level , but pollute the fresh water supplies of a number of places that are coastal with greater elevations. Changes in surface temperature, sea surface and otherwise, will certainly cause a change in precipitation patterns. Current models suggest that this would include substantial drying in sub-Saharan Africa and Central Asia. It also implies (models again) that precipitation in some already wet places will increase, as well as providing more energy for tropical systems (intensity, not frequency. This data is somewhat skewed by the North Atlantic Oscillation, so it's not as solid a prediction).

72. Devolution in Education

Comment #244612 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 9, 2008 at 8:50 am

Dhamma> If you can mathematically prove it, it becomes law (think Newton, Kepler, etc). Notice that biology, which depends more on explanatory theory than math, at least until someone really develops biophysics, has a preponderancce of theories rather than laws.

73. 'Climate crisis' needs brain gain

Comment #244438 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 8, 2008 at 6:03 pm

Francis Clarke> religion you say? I've considered a good deal of the evidence, read through both the 3rd and 4th IPCC assessments, and have to say that there is some good science behind what you're calling faith-based. Could it use more to back it up? Sure. Are things as bad as Al Gore would like us to believe with the distorted evidence presented in his film? Not at all. But if you can honestly say that you can't accept we're at least contributing to a natural warming cycle, and that this will have consequences, three options present themselves: 1) you havent' actually READ any of the evidence, 2) you're being willfully mendacious, or 3) for some reason you're pulling the AGW version of the creationist with his fingers in his ears yelling "goddidt goddidt goddidit". Healthy skepticism on this topic is in everyone's best interest. What peer-reviewed literature on this topic have you actually read?

74. Mammoths moved 'out of America'

Comment #244434 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 8, 2008 at 5:53 pm

Wolvan> thanks, don't have journal access to much anymore, and I've never really dug into the archaeology. Would love to see the original if you can link it.

75. Devolution in Education

Comment #244433 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 8, 2008 at 5:51 pm

I attempted to read this article in its entirety, and ended up skimming... Not that it says a whole lot that's new. Any European countries dying for science teachers? I'll move tomorrow...

76. Opening minds

Comment #242906 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 4, 2008 at 5:34 pm

Dhamma> no pity needed, I walked open-eyed into that mess... thanks anyway though

77. Opening minds

Comment #242890 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 4, 2008 at 5:06 pm

Dhamma> can't really argue with that... that's certainly how they view it. I also found, the last time I chose to beat my head against a brick wall and discuss this with a fundamentalist, that anything that says the bible is wrong suddenly becomes an ad hominem... It took me a couple of exchanges to discern why I was being accused of such attacks when I thought I had refrained from letting my frustration get the best of me.

78. Mammoths moved 'out of America'

Comment #242886 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 4, 2008 at 4:54 pm

4> Can't deny it's a possibility, but I'd love to see the crater they're claiming as evidence. Otherwise it's just speculation, and that particular speculation is fashionable among those with some cosmology in their background.

5> agreed on the migration route... one would expect that if that were the cause, the mammoths would have been traveling the other direction.

and nice... Noah's imaginary ark was an ice breaker?

79. Opening minds

Comment #242880 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 4, 2008 at 4:34 pm

Border Collie> interesting take, and one that might work.. I started (when I taught within my discipline, also read "before the other person with a decent knowledge of basic physics retired") with genetics and human variation, took the class for a walk in the nearby woods and had them examine plants and insects, brought in artificial selection from there (woods are rather scant.. city kids), and let their questioning from the walk as tied to artificial selection make the jump for me. Once you get the students to examine the diversity of life, and the fact that not everything can possibly succeed (refer back to bacterial cultures from cell bio unit here), the basis for natural selection becomes apparent. Having them do internet research on the phylogeny of some fairly charismatic organism (whales are a good choice here) introduces forms of evidence, which they then have to research in order to understand. I did find myself wishing I had more fossils for them to examine, or better yet some fossil beds and rock strata for them to see.
Despite all this, those with a DEEPLY ingrained religious tendency have a hard time accepting that natural selection is a viable reason for human existence... the ego gets in the way (the quote from Bruce in the NY Times article from last week is a good representation of where that comes in).

Mordacious> It isn't, and it works... not sure why any of this should be earth shattering, other than the fact that it needs to start with the teachers themselves. I have colleagues (and had students in the university sci ed class I TAed) that simply refuse to accept the evidence for evolution. On the other hand, one of those also tried to convince me the Earth was flat, so there may only be so much you can do for flat out stupidity.

80. Origins - The BIG Questions: 2008 Skeptics Society Conference

Comment #242567 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 4, 2008 at 5:18 am

Would love to attend... wondering how to convince my school district to pay for it... if I can tie it to a physical sci/ physics curriculum, and based on the speakers it looks justifiable, I can swing it.

The spectrum of belief (or lack thereof) in the speakers is quite interesting... Can't WAIT to see how Ross copes with Stenger and the rest...

81. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #242252 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 3, 2008 at 1:50 pm

Subspecies> muslimdumbfuckicus ?

otherwise we lump this guy and Joe in with David Robertson, which ALMOST makes me feel sorry for the latter.

82. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #241792 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 3, 2008 at 4:40 am

I think it makes an excellent example of how creationists are either a) willfully deceptive, or b) about as intelligent as my left shoe. Either way, showing this drivel to people and saying "here, this is what you beleive" might have a positive impact. Then again, with some of them (ahem, see troll above) it will probably just encourage them.

83. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #241787 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 3, 2008 at 4:30 am

102> I'll add dessert to that...

I attended an Obama town hall meeting in Raleigh, NC, which began with a short (and clearly Christian) religious service. This was not announced or I'd have come late, but most of the crowd seemed to have no problem taking part in this. The unfortunate fact of the matter is most of the US is populated with individuals who either are quite religious or WANT to be more religious than they are (the whole belief in belief bit from the beginning of TGD), and as a result whoever manages to mislead the most voters into thinking their the best choice for the Presidency will have to do so in part by parading their Christianity in full public view.

That being said, Palin is certainly the end of any chance that I'll vote for McCain. I was disturbed when I thought he might choose Bobby Jindal, but at this point I'm outright disgusted.
I'm glad Harris brought this to light, and will certainly heed Richard's wishes in passing this on to everyone I know who might be swayed by it (I'm not sending this to anyone who might think it's a good thing).

84. Islam's war on freedom

Comment #241448 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on September 2, 2008 at 9:01 am

Bonzai> Oh you poor, poor man... have you never heard of Blackadder? and yes, it's Rowan Atkinson, who plays Mr. Bean.... check it out sometime.

85. Museum in censorship row over Darwin sign

Comment #238808 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 28, 2008 at 3:45 pm

Shemp> works for me... I'm going through one of my "Why do we feel like we have to cater to people who whine about being offended" phases... too many inservices before the start of school that spout the perversions of decent ideas. Administraton espousing that each and every one of our students should attend a university... My degree will make great toilet paper if that one succeeds.

86. Manitoba dig uncovers 80-million-year-old sea creature

Comment #238793 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 28, 2008 at 3:30 pm

Keinen Gott> no worries... after reading my post my tone was more aggressive than I intended or you deserved... although I did fully mean to call you out... feel free to return the favour next time I'm being a moron, it happens enough.

87. Manitoba dig uncovers 80-million-year-old sea creature

Comment #238652 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 28, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Keinen_Gott> Really? only two explanations? Is it not plausible that some sort of sea bird died and its corpse or remains thereof sunk?

As for the dried up completely portion, it is possible but it makes it far less likely that those remains would fossilise.

88. Atheism could be science's contribution to religion

Comment #238644 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 28, 2008 at 12:41 pm

"In reality, the only contribution that science can make to the ideas of religion is atheism."

89. Museum in censorship row over Darwin sign

Comment #238633 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 28, 2008 at 12:32 pm

5. I've always preferred "Nut up", but either way. People seem to neglect to remember that they have no right not to be offended.

90. Atheism could be science's contribution to religion

Comment #238394 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 28, 2008 at 4:31 am

The Nature article paints a somewhat different picture of John Templeton and the Foundation from what I've read from Richard and others. Does the Foundation actively push a theist/christian agenda, or simply "fund research at the intersection of science and spirituality"? As the letter writers note, such research, if properly conceived and carried out, could be useful.

91. Kamikaze bacteria illustrate evolution of co-operation

Comment #237392 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 26, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Can't argue with the multicellular example whatsoever... your other sources are appreciated, although referencing the original article for this thread is a stretch... I don't see enough evidence IN THIS CASE that anything other than selection of expressed genes is occuring. My mental working definition of altruism would have involved some measure of semi-conscious thought, or at least communication that could mimic such thought... as well as a sort of true self-sacrifice. This obviously needs revising to be put in biological terms.

92. Kamikaze bacteria illustrate evolution of co-operation

Comment #237241 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 26, 2008 at 8:45 am

Jmac> I'll entertain that it is possible... references please?

93. Kamikaze bacteria illustrate evolution of co-operation

Comment #237161 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 26, 2008 at 5:40 am

Jmac> Agreed that genes don't code for a specific behaviour, but rather allow for a rule that can respond to the environment. In fact, if we were talking about indiviual cells in a multi-cellular organism, I'd have no qualms with your point at all. But altruism in genetically identical bacteria? I think this is taking behaviour too far and not giving enough credit to good old phenotypic expression. (you did touch on this, and then abandoned it). It doesn't honestly appear to me that there is any sort of suicidal sacrfice occuring here, but rather certain expressed genes are being selected against while the others thrive. The fringe benefit for the survivors may be that those who are being killed off by the host's immune system take some pressure off of them, but in bacteria it can hardly be attributed to altruistic behaviour.

94. A Teacher on the Front Line as Faith and Science Clash

Comment #236906 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 25, 2008 at 2:11 pm

Having been in Campbell's position as recently as last year, I'd have to say that he's doing the best he can in it. Myers may consider the NOMA answer to be chickenhearted, but it is the only answer that isn't particularly theist and still allows you to keep your job. Remember that in communities like this, a teacher is more likely to be fired or sued for attacking religion in the classroom than for professing it. As much as I respect him, I think that university tenure has clouded Myers' judgement on how to deal with this sort of thing on a high school level in places where the climate is against you. I'd love to completely trash religion in class, but instead use Carl Sagan's "Dragon in my Garage" argument as a method of delivering doubt in the form of a lesson on evidence. The smarter students know EXACTLY what I'm doing, and hopefully the others at least consider what they're hearing the next time they hear ridiculous supernatural claims. If I'm a coward for using some tact in the face of wingnuts in order to keep my job and avoid threats to my life and home, so be it. I'll settle for creating some inroads to rational thought.

95. Imagine No Religion' signs to go up around town

Comment #236873 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 25, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Edamus> I live in Raleigh, and would gladly contribute to something of the sort going up around here.. perhaps near the state capitol complex? Although the reactions in smaller towns would be worth filming...

96. Michael Coren: Stéphane Dion finds God

Comment #236862 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 25, 2008 at 1:31 pm

"the separation of church and state â€" which, of course, is not a Canadian principle at all but is quintessentially American and is concerned with protecting Christians from government, not the other way around. "

hmm... interesting take on that... while one might be able to claim that the intent of the Establishment clause is indeed to protect faith, it does it in all forms and the phrasing necessitates that nothing resembling a theocracy comes about. The author seems to be implying more along the lines of "this is a Christian nation, dontcherknow" (perhaps just my bias in interpretation) and missing the wider and more important applications of the clause, which should keep religion out of politics altogether.

3. A bit tired of that as well... I'd be more inclined to vote for Obama if he and his pastor hadn't brought their religion into the forefront.

97. Kamikaze bacteria illustrate evolution of co-operation

Comment #236513 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 24, 2008 at 6:16 pm

not trying to feed the troll... merely promising a meal elsewhere...

98. Kamikaze bacteria illustrate evolution of co-operation

Comment #236502 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 24, 2008 at 5:56 pm

JoMo> two points...
one.. proselytising to women? for ISLAM? REALLY? good luck with that... would be curious how you'll sell being oppressed.

secondly.. you were moved to an alternate thread not because anyone fears your comments, but because they don't BELONG on this thread. Some of us were attempting to have a civil discussion on another topic. I would hope you can be man enough to respect that.

99. What Binti Jua Knew

Comment #236498 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 24, 2008 at 5:50 pm

SilentMike> ok... an actual conversation.. that's welcome.

Firstly, I'm not what one might typify an animal rights activist, so my "stance" may not be what you're expecting. As for how to determine inclusion in, I would go with sentience... implying that something capable or some level of reasoned thought and emotion would have to be included. To this point, that would be a rather short list.
So what rights would have to be afforded to a species that demonstrates that sort of mental capacity? I'm not advocating any attempt to include them in human society, in fact the est example of how to treat them would be in the same sense as we SHOULD have treated primitive tribes of humans discovered in the 2nd half of the 20th century: leave them alone, or study without being invasive. Your argument that an ape that chips a bone in it's natural environment would suffer isn't a bad one, but I would say that the question comes down to avoiding interference rather than avoiding suffering.

100. Study: Conservatives Grow Wary Of Mixing Religion, Politics

Comment #236099 by InfuriatedSciTeacher on August 24, 2008 at 8:23 am

3. Comment #235684 by Roger Stanyard on August 23, 2008 at 11:47 am
They haven't, and he is one, in response to fundamentalists, Bush, and the reputation of religion in America. The majority of religious people I meet are very adept at applying the "that isn't my religion" argument to all the wingnuts your hear about, and the few I've met who've read TGD have felt insulted by it (probably because those were the ones most capable of realising their own cognitive dissonances and felt a bit stupid after reading it). There are large swaths or rural America that are highly religious, in many cases fundamentalist themselves, and in either case whole-heartedly support creation as science, bans on gay marriage, and the host of other agenda points espoused by the fundies. Remember, the politicians in places like Louisiana and Kansas who passed these laws (I'm referring to ID in the classroom specifically with that one) are members of the population in general, albeit with a good deal more money. I would argue however that being destitute and uneducated is a condition that fosters religious belief, so their constituents are more likely to hold those beliefs than the politicians themselves. Bobby Jindal holds a Bio degree from Brown: do you think it more likely that he really believes that creationism should be given equal billing with evolution in the classroom, or that he likes being governor and having a shot at VP so he chooses to pander to fundamentalists?