51. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #21187 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 11:34 pm

Russel Blackford. Thanks for your comments. They are well thought out. But I found this one from comment 72 (forgot name but you may know who you are) and I think its more to the point. I feel that whatever the struggles and nuances are that accompany comparisons should fall under this ideal. I guess I am more willing to extend the boundaries in an attempt to shake things up. I am not sure making nice is gonna serve our cause all that much at this point and some people may just have to feel offended first before they can see the other side. Glittergulch also had a good response that you recognized...

Comment 72 states:

Someone needs to tell Karen Hunter that freedom of thought and speech is just as important as racial equality. The fact that one "chooses" religious belief and doesn't choose skin color is a completely irrelevant comment and is a distinction that is completely meaningless in the context of this discussion.

The fact that you can change your mind about your religion and not your race DOESN'T MATTER. The principles of freedom and being treated fairly by the society at large are the same in both cases.

The irony is that it wasn't that long ago that a black woman couldn't be elected dog catcher. The fact that an honest atheist still can't be elected in America seems not to bother her one bit, and she can't see the parallels between the two situations. The differences between blacks and atheists in the context of what they are/were fighting for are meaningless details, but that's what she focuses on because the opinions of atheists are so incredibly foreign to her way of thinking.

Principles should transcend any particular difference of opinion you have with someone else. If you can't do that, look in the mirror.

52. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #21110 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 3:19 pm

Just sent this to Debbie Schlussel. Don't read her blog if you want a stress free night!

Post 97 has the link. Its pathetic.

Hi Debbie,

Cmon!. Be honest. Why don't you count the number of emails you received regarding your appearance on Paula Zahn and then let us know how many were actually hate mail? And what is Hate Mail to you? I am sure the vast majority argued a point different than yours and got classified as Hate Mail by you and only you.

If telling you your performance on Paula Zahn was embarrassing, then I guess this email is more Hate Mail.

Thanks for your time.

Chris

53. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #21098 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 2:52 pm

RICHARD!!! I think you may be reading this board so I wanted to say thank you for all you do. You are making a huge difference in mobilizing people and giving them the confidence needed to make a difference.

If I may? Please do not buy into the "Make Nice" assults you have had to endure. Its just that your positions are too much for them to overcome and you make them look at themselves too deeply- and it scares them, so they have to go about telling you your being impolite. Keep fighting the good fight! And thanks again.

Chris

54. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #21087 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 2:36 pm

Seals:

As an American I would like to be afforded the opportunity to recite the Pledge of Allegiance with my children because I am patriotic (overall). But I can't be forced to say the words "under one god" because I am not. Every other line in the Pledge is agreeable to everyone but that one. And it makes a mockery of the next line after "Indivisible"?!!! Dividing us is exactly what it is doing...

Give an inch, they take a mile...

55. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #20979 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 7:32 am

HERE IS ANOTHER ONE FROM KAREN HUNTER

On Wed Feb 7 8:31 , professorhunter@aol.com sent:

You're still white and will never know what it feels like being black.
You can only sympathize, you cannot empathize. And that you still
insist to compare the two underscores my point.

Please, tell me how was I a bigot on Paula Zahn? and how was it similar
to the bigotry displayed in this country against blacks?

MY RESPONSE:
Hi.

Answer to question #1: Definition of Bigotry according to Websters is "Stubborn or complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from ones own" When you stated Atheist should "just shut up" I think you qualified.

Answer to question #2: Bigotry against Blacks was allowed to perpetuate because people who spoke out against it were in the minority at certain times. If they listened to the just shut up crowd who knows how many more African American would have been persecuted and/or killed...

Chris

56. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #20976 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:44 am

KAREN HUNTER THOUGHT IT WAS WRONG FOR ME TO BRING SLAVERY IN AS A COMPARISON ABOUT ISSUES OF CONSTITUTIONALITY. HERE IS MY EMAIL RESPONSE BACK TO HER...

I am white. But I was raised by a Black woman since I was 9. I probably have as many Black relatives as you, inlcuding brothers and sisters.

Let just say that Bigotry is a choice. And whether its against Atheists or African Americans, its wrong.

Thanks fo the response and have a great day!!!

Chris

57. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #20975 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:44 am

KAREN HUNTER THOUGHT IT WAS WRONG FOR ME TO BRING SLAVERY IN AS A COMPARISON ABOUT ISSUES OF CONSTITUTIONALITY. HERE IS MY EMAIL RESPONSE BACK TO HER...

I am white. But I was raised by a Black woman since I was 9. I probably have as many Black relatives as you, inlcuding brothers and sisters.

Let just say that Bigotry is a choice. And whether its against Atheists or African Americans, its wrong.

Thanks fo the response and have a great day!!!

Chris

58. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #20972 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:31 am

KAREN HUNTER RESPONSE # 2: HERE IS ANTOHER ONE THAT CAME RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST ONE. MY REPLY IS BELOW.

On Wed Feb 7 7:49 , professorhunter@aol.com sent:

Soundbite television does not give anyone an opportunity to fully
express their views. I hate no one, I believe people have the right to
believe or not believe anything they want. Just don't impose your views
on me. I want prayer in school. If you don't want to pray, don't pray.
you won't be locked up for not praying, nor should you be vilified or
bothered. That's your right. But if I want to pray with my students, I
can be fired.

You chose to be an atheist. You weren't born that way. It's a belief
system and no one has to know unless you walk around with a sign or
throw in people's faces. Live and let live. Do what you want. But if I
believe that this society lacks morality and I believe that the kids in
my neighborhood would be better served by having a little of that in
their lives, please don't go to the Supreme Court to ensure that they
don't. It doesn't impact on your ability to not believe on iota, does
it?

Thanks for the exchange...

Karen

MY REPLY:

Hi. Me again. Just wanted to give a different view for you to consider on school prayer.

- I am not imposing my views on you, the constitution is through the edict of the Supreme Court. Are you going to also pray with your muslim students, jewish, hindu?

- I was no more born an Atheist as you were no more born a Christian. You were indoctrinated with Christian beliefs. If you were born in India you would have been indoctrinated as most likely a Hindu, in Iran a Shiate Muslim, in Saudi Arabia a Sunni Muslim and so on. I just recognize this fact and many others based on reason and science that allowed me to make an informed decision.

- And if you believe in our constitution you should not be afraid of any issue going before the Supreme Court. I have "faith" they will make the right decisions...

Thanks again.

Chris

59. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #20970 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 6:25 am

KAREN HUNTER RESPONDS TO AN EMAIL I SENT HER. HERE IS HER RESPONSE TO MY EMAIL BELOW...

For the record, to compare atheism, again a choice, to someone who is
black is definitely off.
Let's put this to rest. I hate no one. you have the right to believe or
not believe anything you want. Just don't compare your plight to some
sort of civil rights issue. It's not. You choose to be an atheist. I
didn't choose to be black. I have never seen a sign that read:
Christians Only. You never had to sit at the back of the bus because
you're an atheist and I cannot recall a single atheist being hung from
a tree or drag from behind a truck until his limbs fell or shot at 50
times just because he was an atheist. So while you are in the minority
in thus Judeo-Christian society, you are far from persecuted.

-----Original Message-----
From: CDG
To: professorhunter@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: CNN Panel Discussion


Dear Ms. Hunter,

I feel obligated to tell you how ignorant and uniformed you came off
in the panel discussion on Atheism on the Paula Zahn program. I would
like you to substitute other words in place of Atheists when you say" I
think they need to shut up".  Do "muslims" need to shut up? Or Jews?
How about "African Americans"? No? So why Atheists?Â

And most importantly, Atheist never "took away prayer in school", just
like African Americans never took away slavery. Both were
unconstitutional and were found to be so by the US Supreme Court.Â

Please try and think things through more thoroughly next time. You
and the viewers will be better off.

Thank you for your time.

Chris

60. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #20945 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 4:22 am

I just emailed Karen Hunter (thanks for the address Benjdm)

In short I told her Atheists "never took away prayer in school" just like African Americans never took away slavery. They were both found to be unconstitutional! And thank goodness...

61. Do stop behaving as if you are God, Professor Dawkins

Comment #20936 by CDG on February 7, 2007 at 3:53 am

He would have believed in Santa as an adult if that ancient fable was advanced throughout history as a truth and accepted by a majority of his peers. Beleiving in a specific religion, Christianity or Islam or Buddism, is a mob mentality. He was probably doing durgs in the 60's, but was to unstable a mind, and sought shelter in the bussom (?) of the almighty and is just happy he was saved. And no one can convince him otherwise because he now safe and sound...

Face the realities of life Alister...

62. Panel discussion on atheism where no atheists are included

Comment #20866 by CDG on February 6, 2007 at 8:56 pm

Just emailed Paula Zahns program and told them how pathetic the panel discussion was. Told her to leave the weighty issues alone and stick with the Paris Hilton fluff as that seems more appropriate for her show and her audience. No level of sophistication whatsoever.

63. U.S. 'Satisfied' With Religion's Public Role, But More Want Less

Comment #20514 by CDG on February 3, 2007 at 3:40 pm

Well, we are a long way from 100% saying out with religion, but at least we are trending...

64. Root of All Evil? Discussion

Comment #20469 by CDG on February 2, 2007 at 7:08 pm

AWWWW! I was so irritated by the host. He Has Richard Dawkins, one of the biggest intellects of our time fighting for time against all the small brains. CMON!

65. God and gorillas

Comment #20268 by CDG on February 1, 2007 at 11:26 am

Hey Primenumbers

That is the best summation of religion I have heard in a long time. I hope you don't mind that I will be using it!

66. Grief Without God

Comment #19522 by CDG on January 27, 2007 at 9:13 pm

Hi Carol,

Thanks for coming out. I am sure Wichita is not the most hospitable place for an Atheist but we need all the help we can get.

Chris

67. Grief Without God

Comment #19512 by CDG on January 27, 2007 at 6:09 pm

I think most Atheist have had to spend some time in a hospital dealing with the good intentions (ignorance?) of the people that work there. Plus, many friends and families giving the standard gift of prayer for your quick recovery etc...I am an Atheist and I still like them telling me that. I guess, like most, I like them thinking of me even if it means they are asking Santa and its the only way the know.

My friends know I am an Atheist, but it comes up in varying ways. When a mutual friend falls ill and they tell him/her that we are "praying for them" I always say that "I am wishing you well" and everyone know the difference.

Dawkins talks about consciousness raising and I think that one of the frontlines should be the hospital. By being resolute on our beliefs in that environment we may do just that.

Thanks Anonymous, sounds like you had what alot of people hope for in this life. And that puts you ahead of the game...

68. In defense of atheism

Comment #19379 by CDG on January 26, 2007 at 6:00 pm

My Pleasure mjwemdee. I have never, until today posted anything on the web but did for the first time this AM replying to the 'Argueing for Atheism' article, so I am new to this as well. I also have just finished reading TGD and had to get more active. I give to Americans United (for the separation of church and state) but am planning on doing more.

I am 37 years old and have been an Atheist for about 15 of those years. I was raised Catholic and still have the same friends for 20 years who are still practicing. I am regularly debating them on the subject matter and am happy we have all remained friends. Growing up together probably helped that cause, because some of the arguments can get heated and as Dawkins says in his book "Embarrassing" for them. I mean how many times can grown adults defend the lunacy of their positions. As I was reading TGD, I thought I would feel horrible giving this book to all my good friends that I love because its just so devastating to them. But I want to be true to myself. Plus I want to rid them of all that Guilt!

Good luck with your Sis. I was lucky that my family is not fanatical and are open to debate but I know it can get dicey. But we have reason on our side so we can't lose.

69. In defense of atheism

Comment #19371 by CDG on January 26, 2007 at 5:01 pm

mjwemdee (25)

Hey, I think the difference is that an Atheist is prepared to question the status quo and fight for the right to live our lives free from religion. An Agnostic is not prepared to deal head on with the prevailing authority out there. So which one are you? Thats up to you but we can use all the help we can get. Come on in, the waters fine. Plus by your humility I would peg you as an Atheist anyway...

70. Arguing for Atheism

Comment #19339 by CDG on January 26, 2007 at 9:21 am

gimloinblog (34)

What I am saying is that for hundreds if not thousands of years of trials and tribulations by both the religious and even some misguided Atheists, we may hopefully come to the conclusion that this is the only life and we may then move to put it at place of the highest value. In the meantime, most will just consider it a pit stop on the way to eternal bliss, and we will have to live with the violence that mindset brings to the table.

At the very least two Atheist armies would need one hell of a reason for bloodshed.

71. Arguing for Atheism

Comment #19333 by CDG on January 26, 2007 at 9:00 am

gimlibengloin (26)

When and how the realities of overpopulation hits us globally -is yet to be determined- In certain areas of the world it happens by design (China's one child policy)or naturally (Africa famine). All have consequences. China determined it better do something now or risk not being able to sustain their population in the future. Not by the barrel of the gun but through economic pressure. Although this has come with a great deal of misery it may prove to be better than 500 million dying in 2040.

Regarding murderer's of history? I don't think you want to go down that road? If we added all the deaths atrributed to God and Religion you would be ashamed. We could start with the Popes?

72. Arguing for Atheism

Comment #19309 by CDG on January 26, 2007 at 7:21 am

gimlibengoin (24)

Just did and found it to have no relation to my assertion. In fact quite the contrary as nothing advocated in the article would ever be implemented toward another by an Atheist due to the Golden Rule tenet (among many other reasons)
I mentioned above. I think that it will take hundreds if not thousands of years for the systematic disillusionment of the religious to take place and eventually seek refuge in reality and science.

73. Arguing for Atheism

Comment #19297 by CDG on January 26, 2007 at 6:24 am

Two Atheist Armies would never go to Battle! Pick any battle in history and imagine erasing the minds of the combatants of all religious propaganda and delusions of heaven and virgins. Their own life and that of their loved ones would become instantly precious and the reasons for fighting would not be worth taking a life or giving one. I suspect they would would work out any grievances and live by the "Golden Rule" as it should have always been implemented, not to appease the 'eye in the sky' but as the basic tenet of human respect towards one another. How did the Reilgious ever get to steal the mantle as protectors of life, while subverting it? The only way to achieve that eternal human goal of 'Peace on Earth' is for all its inhabitants to one day be Atheists.