951. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63630 by Philip1978 on August 15, 2007 at 6:14 am

Darwin2

I dont know if you are married but imagine this,
if I said someone was sleeping with your wife, just like that would you believe me? Or would you ask for more evidence to prove your wife was not sleeping with another person. You would probably ask me to prove it, you would probably ask your wife or at least do some proper investigation to be able to call me a liar.

Does a policeman turn up at a crime scene and simply walk off, find someone who looks like they committed the crime and cart them off to jail? No, he looks at all available evidence like fingerprints, DNA samples, clothing, footprints etc Then using his intellect he goes around investigating what he has by asking questions, he asks several people for their versions of the crime. He basically does all the detecting he can because it is important to catch the right criminal and bring him to justice so that criminal cant commit more crimes. How far would he get if he said "Well, the devil did it and I KNOW he did"?
He would have to find evidence of the Devil himself before losing his job.

Now, you seem to be asserting that you know your god exists and that we are wrong for suggesting proper evidence is needed, I suggest you take a long hard look at what people are typing to you. They are backing up their statements with more than just wild assertions of invisible grandeur.

How do you know your god is God? Why not Zeus, the Spaghetti Monster, Allah, Baal, Odin? I have just as much evidence to suggest its them as you do your god if I use your line of reasoning.

Why not use Douglas Adams' statement "Anything that happens, happens", its reasonable and it involves simplicity without having to add gods to the event complicating it and letting it get wildly out of control.

I am not perfect, nothing is, life is just weird sometimes, I don't have all the answers but I don't want to invent an answer from the invisible and improbable side of life when a simpler version exists without it. I hope you understand this, you probably will ignore a lot of what I have said because you KNOW your god better than me but ask yourself where is he and how come he doesnt make his presence better known by simply proving to world he exist in a less complicated way?

kind regards,

Philip

952. These preachers of hate must be exposed

Comment #63590 by Philip1978 on August 15, 2007 at 2:39 am

Corylus, thanks so much for the link, I intend to use that a bit more often now!

I have written the following to Theresa May, my MP

Following a recent article by Joan Smith from the Independent Newspaper I have decided to write to you concerning the decision to nearly take Channel 4 executives to court over their broadcast of their investigation into the Wahhabi influence in British mosques. Below are links to the article and the episode of Undercover Mosque and I have one question concerning the treatment of the Channel 4 executives in this matter. In the article it claims that the main charge against the executives were that the views and opinions of the clerics seen ranting away were "taken out of context". After watching the recording I would like you to think about just what conceivable context could possibly make the things said any less appalling? Further more I would like to know why such an ridiculous mess was made of the Racial and Religious Hatred bill in the first place.

I am worried about the fact that the present Labour government has done its best to make it increasingly difficult to criticise such religious extremism without being called a racist or Islamophobic.

I find that this soft approach just gives encouragement to the extremists knowing that they can get away with hateful incitement without fear of prosecution. Look at the case against Abu Hamza the Cleric from the Finsbury Park Mosque. Look at the special treatment he gets simply because of his religion, we are to respect this man's religion when he has been using it to advocate the destruction of the people that HAVE to respect his religious views. Why has the Labour government made it law that the wrong people are being criticised for speaking out against something so dangerous.


The Channel 4 Executives were being charged for inciting religious hatred when it is clear the true hatred was being preached by the extremists. Like all other faiths, Islam must be able to stand up to reasoned criticism just like the others. They should not be given any more special privilege than other faiths, if the criticism is true then it should be allowed to be mentioned without fear of arrest. I am all for living in a peaceful society and will contribute to it in any way I can but I don't see how this can be achieved if people like those in the documentary can escape criticism.

I am interested to hear your views on this and also what could possibly be done about it, thank you for your time,


Yours sincerely,

Philip Priestley

Below are the links I mentioned:


http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_m_z/joan_smith/article2861717.ece

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&mode=related&search=

Oops, I may have made a mistake, this has not been made law yet has it? Oh well, will keep you all updated if I get a response

Philip

953. These preachers of hate must be exposed

Comment #63392 by Philip1978 on August 14, 2007 at 4:26 am

David! Hope Bulgaria was fun and that you are well, how did it go?

One question, I took this quote from your website it says that the Free Church of Scotland

"...stands firmly in the tradition which accepts the Bible in its entirety as the Word of God and, therefore, derives its forms of teaching, worship, ministry and government from it."

I must conclude then that this includes Deuteronomy and if I am not mistaken that really isn't the nicest way of treating unbelievers is it? I am in no way going to compare you with the fundamentalist monsters that preach the above such maniacal hate. After all you have acknowledged the hatred of which they spout is evil in your post. My point though is the Bible does preach hate as much as it does have some reasonably friendly things.

I want to be careful here because I have noticed in the past whenever I have presented a discussion point you point out I make a few mistakes about your church and religion. I am merely going on the above statement off your site and the contents of the bible using Deuteronomy as an example. Please can you explain this, I would like to hear your opinion,
cheers,
Philip

954. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #63377 by Philip1978 on August 14, 2007 at 3:30 am

Mark,

I also offer my deepest sympathies over the loss of your mother, I hope you will be ok.

The one major problem I have with prophesying anything is that absolutely ANYBODY could pick it up in the time frame predicted and do exactly what it asks.
The prophesies in the Bible are so vague and incomplete, look at how that prophesy about the "Nazarine" gets out of hand. This actually refers to Samson and not Jesus but Matthew still manages to twist it to make it look like true prophesy and that Jesus grew up there despite there being evidence to the contrary. Since there is no evidence to prove Jesus grew up in Nazareth other than the Bible could it possibly be the prophesy is wrong? Or is Matthew not talking about the messiah and he is a very naughty boy!

take care,

Philip

955. Amnesty to defy Catholic church over rape victims' abortion rights

Comment #63137 by Philip1978 on August 13, 2007 at 8:09 am

Tigerbalm

I really hope you dont actually believe what you typed below:

"C'mon all you bleeding hearts, tell me what is the point of expressing all your oh-so-righteous, sad indignation over just one thing like this, given our bloody history"


"Man is a killing and raping machine, no doubt about it, and our big brain has just made us better at it. What a sorry lot we are! The planet really would be better off without us.

I was expressing my total disgust with this complete lack of thought and compassion for women who have been raped. If my concern for a friend who I love to the ends of this Earth earns me the title of bleeding heart then fine, so be it,its the least I can do for her after what she went through.

Please can you at least think about what you are saying because I really don't approve of what you wrote, I get the impression you don't know what you are talking about.

Philip

956. Amnesty to defy Catholic church over rape victims' abortion rights

Comment #63081 by Philip1978 on August 13, 2007 at 4:38 am

V
You have no reason to apologise, I agree with everyone here, this is another example of how disgusting and pathetic the Vatican is.

Rape is something I cannot come to terms with, my friend was once raped and I really have to control my temper when I hear these abhorrent statements from the church. There are not words to describe how grateful I am to AI for helping to speak out about this and I hope it raises more awareness to the cruelty and brutality of rape itself. The Vatican has much to learn, I hope they realise that one day and stop psychologically terrorising people with their lies and barbarism.

I will stop now before the words get too out of hand,

Philip

957. The Out Campaign

Comment #63070 by Philip1978 on August 13, 2007 at 4:10 am

epeeist

You are absolutely right, it is going to take a lot of brave people to change anything in the face of such fanaticism. Thing is I can see the Christian Right in America being stopped and possibly reasoned with to a minutely small degree, Islamic Fundamentalism doesn't tolerate criticism at all. It saddens me that when people in those countries do start speaking out they will be killed without hesitation. Speaking out against it in a foreign country means their words can be censored, the population would be told a different story and that worries me as well.

I wonder if it will end or change at all?

Philip

958. The Out Campaign

Comment #63060 by Philip1978 on August 13, 2007 at 3:31 am

Sorry guys,

I get bored waiting for David to reply to my messages, I will keep the chat to a minimum in the future,

Philip

959. The Out Campaign

Comment #63048 by Philip1978 on August 13, 2007 at 2:51 am

V + Northern Monkey

My sincere apologies, I only sent that link cos it was the pub I was in, all over England we have some incredible buildings that are still standing and if I offended the Northern Monkey it was not my intention!

Philip (A.K.A Southern Jessie!)

960. The Out Campaign

Comment #63026 by Philip1978 on August 13, 2007 at 12:31 am

Yippiee! I had a great time and many good Ales were drunk plus I managed to eat the largest Cod and Chips known to humanity. To top it off my friends gave me a birthday card with "I am 2" on it complete with badge that said the same. I did giggle when I got asked for ID in the pub we went in after hehehhehe!

I have travelled from Cairns down to Sydney and then hopped over to Perth for a bit and I loved it all. Its a beautiful country, even if the buildings are not that old the land is ancient and I was very impressed.

Most old buildings like the pub I went to still have original parts to them but sometimes are maintained by modern brick work just to keep the standing plus various kings and queens liked to add parts during the centuries in keeping with the architecture of the time. Then again some of the brickwork was so good they seem to have stood the rigours of time very well. Most maintenance is done by the trusts who own the buildings, the money they make by using them as tourist attractions helps with the upkeep and sometimes the government chips in to keep them going as well. There is a link below to the pub I went to just to give you an idea of what it was like.


http://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Site/Intl/London/Food/royal_standard.htm

Ahh back to work after a week off, over 500 emails to go through, this should be an interesting day!
Cheers,
Philip

961. The Out Campaign

Comment #62603 by Philip1978 on August 10, 2007 at 9:33 am

V
Cheers tons for the Happy Birthday! :)

All the people who I have chatted to on here who used to be religious but are now not have helped me brilliantly to get to understand how and why people are religious and (thank Quetz!) I never have had to go through what they have done

I completely agree with you, why cling on to it? What is the benefit of what Billy very cleverly referred to as mental slavery?

I too am a hulking great fan of the stories, the Norse and Greek mythologies really have some good ones and I think there is a real heroic appeal to those religions. Like you say there is something personable about the Gods and I think it really suits the time periods which they covered. I think the more "modern" religious stories are a bit sissy in comparison, flying about on horses, teasing the Rwomans (No Romans, STWIKE HIM!) (Sorry, can't help it, love Monty Python!) into a bellicose stupor then the Rwomans adopting it all! The big story consists of the main Deity hurling his almighty weight around sending people off to eat apples or kill and destroy others. Then send his son on a suicide mission to repent for original sin that he set up, I mean that's pathetic! No, give me the hammers, lightning bolts, Quetz's humour and blessed Tea any day of the week!

I don't feel sorry for David, Biz, Devolved, Fides etc its their choice, they know the alternatives, they know what they are up against. Religion, as Mr Hitchen's so brilliantly put it is "presenting a false picture of the world to the innocent and the credulous" by "the imposition of impossible tasks and rules". I love that chapter in his book and for me it sums up what I have been saying to David about the psychological mess people can inflict upon other and themselves because of their religion. They are being cruel in perpetuating a lie that is of no use to anyone in this day and age and I wish religion wouldn't do that to people. I am by no means perfect and neither do I want to sound it or be it, I would rather have my imperfections and get on with it. I agree with Penn Jillette the Magician, asking the invisible for the highly improbable doesn't sound like fun to me, just do the best I can and see if I can make people happy along the way, I don't think thats too bad!

Saturn return, interesting! This "properly realised adult" you speak of, what is one of those exactly?!

Right, I am off to one of the oldest pubs in England (there may be other pubs that are older but I think this one is pretty ancient) tonight, around before 1066 from what I have been told. This was when the idea of a public house was for women, Alewives, to make the beer themselves and then announce it to the locals by hanging a green bush off a pole when it needed drinking. The "Public House" was the house in which the locals used to congregate to get most inebriated, think I might do the same!

Here's to Quetz!
Cheers to you all!
Philip

962. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #62318 by Philip1978 on August 9, 2007 at 8:56 am

I fear not the Wrath of Mark of the Tauntons with you as my god Quetz!

To quote from Marilyn Manson, a good god is hard to find! My witnessing is my thanks to You and the Prophet Billy for all the hard work being done by your good selves on our behalf!

I am off to the public house tonight, I will raise a glass of ale in your names, plus possibly tell a few of the patrons as well just for good measure!

Cheers!

Philip

963. The Out Campaign

Comment #62313 by Philip1978 on August 9, 2007 at 8:40 am

SRWB

(Philip pauses briefly after over-exuberant playful dash around the room barking "I'm 29!" :P)

Douglas Adams kindly helped me out with the whole "Anything that happens, happens" philosophy I learned many years ago. Now that I know what Occam's Razor is I suggest the religious go take Douglas's phrase and go shave with it!

Keep up the good work!

(Philip returns to bounding around the room!)

964. The Out Campaign

Comment #62243 by Philip1978 on August 9, 2007 at 3:43 am

Wow, I have heard of time flying as you get older but this is getting weird! Mid 30s by next week? Not with the Tea of Quetz by my side!

I think possibly one of my, I cant really call it a weakness per se but the word will do until I can think of a better one is that I, like Veronique ( I hope I am right here Veronique, please forgive me if I read the other posts of yours wrong!) have no concept of what god/gods is/are at all (Asides of course from my knowledge of Quetz, I am talking about the imaginary gods!). Even before my realisation at 8 years old that prayer does not work I really didn't have anything that could be described as "Faith". I think sometimes I frustrate people like David, Biz, Devolved et all is because I keep pestering them on the basics of their belief, I keep mentioning Gods in the plural sense or refer to their own particular god because of my own total bafflement as to what exactly is it that makes them think that there is some glitch in human perception and understanding that means god/gods can exist.

Then applying that to the suffering I have seen and had to deal with in my life I have simply found that the glitch in my perceptions or lack of understanding of people's god is simply not necessary. My automatic response is to do what I can to help stop it in the best way I can and I get a bit weirded out when people can then say "ahh, see Philip, god pre-determined that you would do that!" How would I know what that means apart from it being completely superfluous to my desire to help?

Ah well, make Tea and no other gods than Quetz and the world will be fine!
Philip

965. The Out Campaign

Comment #62223 by Philip1978 on August 9, 2007 at 1:04 am

Ahoy all!

Cheers tons for the birthday wishes, I appreciate it tons

Well, now I am 29 I am sure I am soooo much wiser than I was on Monday when I was 28!!

J and Billy, cheers for those responses, it must have been a hard struggle coming up with that! I think I understand a bit more about how people can reconcile with themselves over loss and tragedy, however the way you describe God having this magnificent plan still makes me think he is a complete ****!

The main reason I actually want to hear David's response is because I want him to explain his religion to me. Too many times in the past I have posed various questions and arguments his way and each time I have got something wrong, that his religion or God would not do/say or has ever done whatever it is I have questioned. I think I have explained well enough why I am an atheist, though should he wish to ask or question it I encourage it.

Cheers tons,
Philip

966. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #61640 by Philip1978 on August 6, 2007 at 4:16 am

Professor Dawkins, I look forward to watching this a lot, I am glad you are speaking out against it

dr in the house
I find it reprehensible that you have to explain all that in the first place, it would be so much better if you only had to offer alternative treatments that worked as well as what is in place now.

Can anyone tell me if Lavender oil does anything other than stink? My mother is convinced it helps aid the healing of bruising and I am convinced it does no such thing but smell bloody awful, is there any truth to my mother's claims? She works in a Doctor's surgery, she has no belief in the supernatural what so ever, but thinks Lavender Oil is the way forward. I just am interested to know if I am right so I can laugh about it with her,

Philip

967. The Out Campaign

Comment #61627 by Philip1978 on August 6, 2007 at 3:33 am

David,
I think we need to sort something out first before I go any further, I have noticed a pattern in our discussions and I want to correct this now

I constantly seem to be getting your particular religion wrong at every turn and I would at least like to question and discuss what you do believe in rather than discussing what you don't.

The bit that really confuses me is that you have said in previous posts that you read and believe in the teachings of the bible. I then thought because you read the Bible you would have acknowledged that in the Bible it does say that if you pray to God in Jesus's name your prayers will be answered. I find it strange that even you reject that and I would like to know why

I have read a little about The Free Church of Scotland but would really like you to outline or prod me in the right direction so I can at least have a discussion that involves me knowing which bits I should be aiming at rather than making the mistakes that I have so far.

Ok, I have had an idea, how about you give me a view of what happened to my friend in relation to what you believe and we can start from there. I have been questioning just what is God's role in all of this from the point of view of her religious beliefs and that I think she suffered more because of them. what is your take on the situation? I questioned that IF (I must use capitals here to show thats a massive IF for me!) God was real what was He doing whilst my friend was being beaten up and then ignoring her even more when she was really on the edge because she thought she had let God down in some peculiar way. I maintain that is psychological torture and that religion, no matter what form you take it in, is wrong to give people false hope and even more false delusions as to the will of their God.

So please, before I go any further I want to hear your take on the events, I want to know what you actually think happened with reference yo tour religious beliefs and we could discuss this properly, I think I would enjoy that more and it would possibly get us somewhere.

I look forward to your response,

Philip

968. The Out Campaign

Comment #60950 by Philip1978 on August 3, 2007 at 7:04 am

Yorker,

All my gay friends have at some point in their lives had girlfriends during their school years but most of them knew they were gay very early on.

But I remember one of them really didn't know if he was gay or straight and went through years where he was gay and then straight again. I don't think of him as bisexual because he seemed really committed to each of his relationships It was not through pressure or lack of understanding from his family he just really didn't know what he wanted. Look what happened to Freddie Mercury, he loved his wife dearly and was gay but I wouldn't have called him bisexual, I could of course be wrong but it was something I read a while back, I just thought it sounded similar to what your brother is going through.

Philip

969. The Out Campaign

Comment #60918 by Philip1978 on August 3, 2007 at 5:57 am

If Gawd opens 'is norf and starts yappin' 'bout knockin' back a few cheeky's i'll knock 'is jacobs off and get 'im out of my way innit!

970. The Out Campaign

Comment #60914 by Philip1978 on August 3, 2007 at 5:47 am

Merci beaucoup, j'ira avoir un boisson dans votre nom Monsieur Baeoz!

971. The Out Campaign

Comment #60903 by Philip1978 on August 3, 2007 at 5:28 am

Ah I see the mighty Quetz has got the Scottish gents speaking in tongues again!

Well, it being my birthday on Tuesday I thought I would go with my work colleagues down the battle cruiser tonight, I might go for an Aristotle of the most ping pong tiddly in the nuclear sub and see where it ends up, I don't know about you guys, I hope you aint staying in to watch the roger iron!

Philip

972. The Out Campaign

Comment #60841 by Philip1978 on August 3, 2007 at 1:18 am

David,

Oh dear,

Age old argument? yes it is because nobody has gotten around to providing a decent answer yet and we are still waiting!

Score cheap points? Is that really what you think I am doing here? I have been nothing but polite so far and you hurl that at me? Fine, no bother!

I am not angry at god, I know he doesn't exist, I am dissatisfied with people like you ruining other people's psychological well being by scaring the crap out of them with tales of some non existent invisible tyrant who falls asleep on the job when needed!

You have completely and utterly missed my entire point and have responded with the most weak answer about God not interfering when it suits him. How on earth do you justify telling people the good Lord will save them if they pray and follow the bible and then spout crap about God having nothing to do with their misfortunes!

I am irritated by this whole stupid concept of that stinking lie in the bible, which you read and follow, that if you pray to God in Jesus's name all your prayers WILL come true. My friend prayed a lot and nothing happened so why tell people God is going to help them because the Bible says so and then tell me that...

"...The bottom line is that your friend suffered because someone beat her up – not God".

So which is it, the Bible being the truthful one and that ALL prayers will come true if you do it as commanded or that you are right and that God has bugger all to do with it? I am inclined to think you are right for once and God has bugger all to do with it


You cant give me a "simplistic formulaic answer", I never asked for one because nothing is simple in these situations. I, like you, have had to deal with some horrible events and getting people to come to terms with their hardships is no easy task. Its heart breaking, like I said I am not at all qualified to deal with half the stuff that I have had to, I had to make it up on the spot half the time but sometimes I have got people back on their feet again. I admire your desire to help people through difficult times, I really do, I just disagree with your using God to sort it out when I bet you are more than capable of handling it yourself without using God.

There may not be a simplistic formula but if you want to work it out without God, the sum suddenly seems a hell of a lot easier

Philip

973. The Out Campaign

Comment #60557 by Philip1978 on August 2, 2007 at 8:17 am

Yorker,
Am awaiting email from a traveller who shares your love of organised holidays! Will let you know asap

Philip

974. The Out Campaign

Comment #60548 by Philip1978 on August 2, 2007 at 7:47 am

Billy,
Do you want to go pick up the *#9566 or shall I?

No problem mighty Quetz, it will be done exactly as you &&~~%%88!

David, I have always argued that people can never actually do what their god asks them to because of the interpretation of the message, they can only guess it and is unique to each individual. It is so ambiguous it cannot be used as evidence to show that it is ACTUALLY their god speaking to them and not a warped version of their conscience. But in this case you cant argue that my God isn't real, here he is! His message is there for all to see with no dispute as to who wrote it and what he wants!
Philip

975. The Out Campaign

Comment #60540 by Philip1978 on August 2, 2007 at 7:15 am

Yorker,
I have a couple of friends who have been on safari there and they loved it plus I know a man who could help, anything specific you need to know?

Praise be to Quetz and his multilingual Prophet!

976. The Out Campaign

Comment #60473 by Philip1978 on August 2, 2007 at 2:52 am

David,

There are not words to describe just how disappointed I am with your answer, really I don't understand how your answer of "warm theology" could have possibly helped in that situation or indeed with other situations described by Billy or IrateAtheist.

Telling someone that God loves them after they have been through incredible torment like that I find horrifically disingenuous to say the least.

What exactly was God doing at the precise moment my friend was being beaten? How much did he really love her to let this man torment her and nearly ruin her? She prayed and prayed endlessly and got no answer or respite from the beatings, was she not asking correctly? Or is God a sadistic tyrant who takes great pleasure in all of this? How then is He supposed to offer "warm theology" after that? What is the point of saying that when God did nothing in the first place. Please explain to me again exactly what God's role in all this is?

I am not in a position to make that kind of judgement. However I do know that God will judge justly and fairly..

God's judgement, lets pretend he actually exists, is pretty bloody poor to me if the best he can do is let people be terrorised like this. Why did he not judge that the man beating this woman should have some revelation to sort himself out? Did it ever occur to him to perhaps incapacitate him in some way? Why didn't he show himself to this woman and give her proper guidance? She prayed to him as told to by her church and the Bible or are you going to tell me something about she didn't do it properly or didn't have enough faith?

I will tell you what cured her, it was love and help from friends who were there for her, time and her letting go of God. Once she let go of God the nightmares were easier to confront and she became a stronger person because of it.

I really am confused by the way you say that you agree with me but then deny that it has anything to do with your particular brand of faith. I am upset that you can't see why your comments are a hideous insult to the torment my friend, Billy's Friend, Irate's wife and countless others have gone through. You can see my point yet you do not act on it solely on the basis that you KNOW somehow that your religion/god/faith would not be capable of such atrocities. You think your version of it would have saved the day and righted it all yet the truth of the matter is your god IS doing this to people, your religion CAN cause this misery just like the plethora of other religions in this world. It seems to me to be perpetuating a lie, a lie which is causing untold and highly unnecessary psychological scarring and I want no part of it and neither should you

Sadly I don't think you will ever see it that way, it pities me greatly

Philip

977. The Out Campaign

Comment #60163 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 7:32 am

Its tough being a deity isnt it, you ask people to have a nice cup of Tea completely of their choice, promising them it will be a nice cuppa and then people start swinging cats towards their backs!

978. The Out Campaign

Comment #60147 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 6:11 am

Billy, if you read David's post we are all Atheist Tea drinkers! Besides, Christians could never be this happy, there is always the worry Yahweh would curse the Tea if they drank it on a Sunday or something equally stupid!

979. The Out Campaign

Comment #60137 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 5:46 am

J
There is Tea for everyone, not just those you mention but ALL teas! Fear not the Lapsang Souchong for that is simply the drink of The Prophet Billy and is not from the Cess Pit of the Jorvik Centre that you speak of!
Lady Grey will be blessed for those who like Lady Grey, I myself am now an avid Assam fan, for that is my Way. One day you will find your Way, just give it time!
Philip

980. The Out Campaign

Comment #60136 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 5:39 am

Prophet Billy, There be no need to pressure these people, The Message will soon get to them sooner or later.

I think that now we have put across The Message of good Tea in His name, people will drink it and then think of Quetz.

Even better, when sitting down for a fine cuppa and then seeing His armies of hybrid creatures wondering past, His greatness will be there for all to see,

Cheers to you Quetz,

Philip Priest(ley)

981. The Out Campaign

Comment #60124 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 4:28 am

Cheers Billy,

J will soon see the light reflecting off His one and only Lab Coat that he gave unto thee.

J as High Priest of the Church of Quetz I offer you some blessed Tea that Quetz did send unto me in York, it is bloody good Tea as He commanded it should be.

I have just read the above post from He that is called Quetz, I wanted to add that this is an act of kindness because Tea is great!

Cheers
Philip

Philip

982. The Out Campaign

Comment #60119 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 4:15 am

Billy wrote
" J
Nobody likes a teachers pet :-)"

I see nobody has noticed what David said about me in his post

*ducks*

983. God-Fearing People: Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?

Comment #60114 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 3:22 am

I dug it TIE!

984. God-Fearing People: Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?

Comment #60104 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 2:41 am

Have you read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy?

I would actually compare them to the inhabitants of the planet Krikkit, when at last they achieved space capability they flew out side of the massive cloud that had encompassed their planet. Upon first witnessing the glory and splendor of the Universe, they casually, whimsically, decided to destroy it, remarking, "It'll have to go." So anything that wasn't Krikkit was declared war on.

This is I am afraid to say the exact mentality of Islamic Extremists, Religion has poisoned their minds to the point of xenophobic rage which cannot be extinguished. As Sam Harris points out in End of Faith, these guys are not like your Catholic or Jew who can cherry pick away at their religion to their heart's content. These people ACTUALLY believe it, totally and utterly through and through, no equivocation, no remorse. The Qu'ran has a multitude of passages and sentences that make the bible's Deuteronomy book look playful in comparison! Its all about burning, putting to the sword etc all those who oppose Islam or leave it, very very scary.
I know what you mean about what the heck drives these people into a massive frothing session, I would still advocate it being Islam, plain and simple as that
Silly sods
Philip

985. God-Fearing People: Why are we so scared of offending Muslims?

Comment #60098 by Philip1978 on August 1, 2007 at 2:01 am

Itman,
Unfortunately it is everything to do with religious beliefs, I would say that is the first and foremost reason for all this ridiculous outrage. You have to remember that they work on the premise that the Qu'ran IS the inerrant word of their god. No ifs, not buts, that's it, cherry picking does not happen.

So everything they do is centred around the book being right and that the world needs to be Islamic because Islam is perfect. Look at what happens to apostates who leave the religion, look at what happened with those stupid cartoons, look at Salmon Rushdie, it all points to a direct outrage to their religion being ridiculed and they cant cope with it. Political issues etc are second in line to their Faith and the notion that the world should be Islamic and those who oppose it must die. That's the extremist view, the moderate view simply gives these maniacs a platform to stand on.
Sad isn't it
Philip

986. The Out Campaign

Comment #59996 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 11:49 am

gr8hands
totally agree with you, I wanted to ask David why religion is necessary in resolving such a problem. I can describe many situations where the bible or Qu'ran etc explain how a man can beat women etc I want to know what benefit can be achieved from convincing yourself you will go to hell etc for something that you have been taught will be resolved by the deity you believe in. The two conflicting ideas that your god loves you, will protect you etc if you pray and have faith, follow the bible etc confronted with the fact you are in a dire situation, desperately in need of help and protection and nothing is being done.

Irate Atheist's wife was not saved by her god, she was saved by a real man, who had the guts, the patience and the undying love to keep his wife alive and happy. He is the real Saviour here, he was there for her and I cant explain in words my admiration for such a noble act when her family members could do nothing but spout meaningless religion to keep her in torment rather than out of it. I want David to realise such acts of love and compassion are not god inspired, god was not helping, religion was not helping, a real man was.

Again, there is no animosity towards the humans involved, its the religion I want to emphasise as being the culprit that adds to the problem, not solving it.

Philip

987. The Out Campaign

Comment #59985 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 11:06 am

David,

Thank you for your kind words, I am at least glad you are convinced I have nothing hostile to do with you, but please be careful when labeling people like Billy like that, if you are going to type things as you did in your first post, expect verbal handbags.

I gave you an example of my displeasure with religion and I can give you a few more if you like about how some good people I know have been psychologically destroyed because of what has happened to them and then the consequences of having to deal with god as well. I think what you missed from my point is that

1) That woman's husband was using her as a punch-bag. That was her main problem and she had to be brave enough to come to terms with and get out of that house. Not an easy choice.
2) She was a believer in the same god as you, not as the same church but nonetheless a believer.

Now, I find it bad enough that her husband hit her, I can obviously only have to imagine the torment that poor woman suffered, I have never been hit before like that. Women who get beaten live in sheer terror, its been described to me as something closely akin to Stockholm Syndrome, the beatings become a part of life because they are too scared to do anything. Now, here is where i think your point has been made, yes, even an evil idiot of a man like that can be an atheist. The psychological torture is exactly the same.

Now add god. If it isnt enough to be beaten up by the person you thought you loved because you married that person and committed your life to, what is god doing?

This woman had made a PROMISE to god to stay with that man through sickness and in health, till death do they part. So she then starts imagining god is angry with her, she obviously didn't please Him and her husband and will end up in hell because of it.

I don't fully understand the concept of hell because I have never believed in it but the impression I get is that its a psychological nightmare for those who do.

This poor woman thought she was going to hell because some tyrannical madman was using his fists on her because he couldn't control his temper. Please tell me what God was doing at this time other than clouding her mind with irrational and painful thoughts that otherwise were not needed. The torment of being hit and terrorised is one thing, then imagining the invisible is out to get her is another un-needed psychological nightmare she could have done without.

So please tell me what the use of God is in any problem solving situation? She prayed to him, was he busy, unconcerned, thought she deserved it? How are you supposed to know? I completely agree with you that this can happen without religion, my point is that religion is an added nightmare that is unnecessary and horrible.

You grow up being told God will answer your prayers, if done properly as the bible describes. you ask in the name of Jesus and it shall be done. The options afterwards are Yes, No or Maybe if God is feeling up to it. This woman was nearly suicidal and was waiting for answer that never came, just what exactly was the whole point of praying?

There is my evidence David, I want you to go away and think about what I have described to you and then provide me an answer as to how or why God helps in this matter. Consider she was a deeply religious person, never did a think wrong in the rules of the bible and to the god she prayed to, its not like she had a lack of faith or was doing anything wrong. Then ask yourself why in any problem solving situation that is life threatening and a real torment should the thought of God punishing you for it as well help.

Philip.

988. The Out Campaign

Comment #59940 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 7:41 am

Of course we all know who would make the ideal customer but I can't suggest him.

David Robertson? :)

989. The Out Campaign

Comment #59922 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 5:59 am

Irate Atheist,

You are a good man, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Come on Irate Junior, get a move on!

Philip

990. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #59917 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 5:29 am

Fides,

I want you to read that story I posted and Billy's
too for his is equally if not more moving, then I want you to think about how teaching your child about religion is so incredibly wrong

My major problem with bringing a child up in religion is the psychological battering people can get when faced with a really big problem and then getting in more of a mess because their god is not helping them in the way they were promised.

What happens if your child ends up in a situation where he really needs your God's help and it doesn't arrive. Not only does the situation require him to confront what has happened but also why did God LET it happen. If he prayed to God in the way the Bible commands, if you say it in Jesus's name etc, what happens when it does not come true? Look at what happened to Billy when he questioned things, "Its Gods will Billy, don't worry!".

This is abuse of the biggest kind because you are relying on a lie to perpetuate what you think as completely harmless. I know you mean well, I see that you want the best for your child and that you love him as well as any good parent should and I really admire you for that. If I have a major problem I go to my friends and family for advice, or if needs be I would ask a professional, I get answers from real people, they do the best they can to get me through it. I would do the same and more for them, they only have to ask me and I will do all I can to get them through whatever it is they are facing. I have made that abundantly clear to them and I have had to deal with some pretty large problems for which I am not qualified to deal with except that I am their friend or relative. If they or I went about it in the same way your god does the problems would NEVER get sorted properly. Yes, No or Maybe is not a response that can psychologically help people, I would say that is cruel.
I am the really lucky one here, I have all these friends and relatives, some people don't have those. They rely on gods to help them because its all they know because of their upbringing or indoctrination by the religion they follow.

I would go and think long and hard about just what purpose your god serves and how it will affect your child as he grows up.
Remember I am not attacking you as a person or a parent, I am detailing why I think religion is wrong and psychologically abusive, this is a bit of a bleak post and I will say no more about it unless you ask.

Sorry to all for the rant but I wanted to Fides to know my opinion and give him something to think about,
Kind regards,
Philip

991. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #59903 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 3:56 am

Lee,
Oh totally different, Quetz exists and speaks great wisdom to us all, that God and Golden Calf rubbish holds no interest for me!
Was only looking at it at Mark's point of view, here we all have been discussing how we think his God does not exist and then go worship Quetz in his absence!!
Praise be to Quetz and His Prophet Billy,
Philip

992. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #59883 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 2:51 am

Billy,
He has just accused Professor Dawkins of giving up on science to become a politician for the anti religious discriminatory fundamentalist bunch that we are! Its in the COME OUT article

Poor David, must have had a rubbish holiday!

993. The Out Campaign

Comment #59869 by Philip1978 on July 31, 2007 at 1:12 am

David, glad you are back, hope you had a nice holiday!

Guess what? I am going to disagree with you!!

1) Atheism, despite your insistence IS NOT A BELIEF. For goodness sake young man will you finally accept that I and all the others here do not revere Professor Richard Dawkins or others as any form of quasi deity.


2) Discrimination? have you not read SavageMickey's post? Or Yorker's? I could go on for ever! I am sorry David but how can you say that religion does not discriminate against people?

3) Yes I would love to have a cup of Tea with anybody on this site, beats sitting around in church asking the invisible for the highly improbable if he/she/it possibly feels like it. Oh sorry was I stereotyping there?

4) You have no idea what a fundamentalist is, how many times do I have to tell you?

David, I hope you have read enough of my posts now that you know that I simply disagree with your faith, not with you as a person. If you think I want to discriminate against you and that everyone on here and I simply follow in the herd with the Professor as the shepherd then you are greatly mistaken. I can be just as sarcastic as you if I want but it hasn't got us anywhere has it?

The reason why I support this and that I am going to get one of these T-Shirts is because I have seen, read and spoken about the psychological atrocities that religion has inflicted upon people. I'll give you an example, I know a woman whose husband beat her quite badly on a regular basis. She eventually divorced him but I will never forget the tears she cried as she told me she thought that god was punishing her for doing something wrong and that her beatings were justified in some strange way. Even after she had left him she thought god would inflict more suffering because she had left him and that she was frightened of what god wanted from her.
That's just one example and I am sure others could provide you with similar stories
I want people to be aware that believing in gods is a waste of time and effort, I don't want people being destroyed like this, being hurt and battered is one thing, adding to your misery by adding god's wrath to it all I think is so wrong. So if it means wearing a T-Shirt and getting people asking questions about religion, then that's fine by me. I want to stop this, as BillySands mentioned in another post, Mental Slavery. I don't want to hit people over this, I don't want to discriminate anyone, I want to help.

Philip

994. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #59697 by Philip1978 on July 30, 2007 at 9:22 am

Lee,
all I have is images of Moses returning from the mountain after a hard long chat with God only to find his mates worshiping a golden bull!

Hehehe, I would like to hope Mark has a sense of humour and he laughs as much as we have been, if not, well, he can blame me, I will do the explaining!

Philip

995. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #59628 by Philip1978 on July 30, 2007 at 1:32 am

J,
Quezt did type this unto me

"My first commandment to you, Philip- go forth and drink much tea. It will be delicious. My Blessings be upon you"

Now, I travelled up to York over the weekend and did happen upon Betty's Tea room and in this tea room I drank a cup of Betty's Breakfast Tea. It was quite happily the best cup of Tea I have had since I found some Australian Billie Tea back in 1998 (Billy, have you been playing with Australian Tea in your lab perchance?)

How is that for a blessing upon the Tea that He did promise me?

Oh well, if you are going to be in the outgroup, at least take a good cuppa with you, it might get cold out there!

Good call for Dragons O Quetz, Fire goes well with frikkin' laser beams any day of the week! Cheers for the Tea, your humble Priest,

Philip Priestley ( I knew there was a good reason for my surname!)

996. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #58817 by Philip1978 on July 26, 2007 at 8:23 am

Thank you Oh Wise Quetz, I did find the kettle, I did boil the water, said the Sacred words "Cheers Quetz, your good health!" and the Tea was as you commanded, delicious!

997. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #58776 by Philip1978 on July 26, 2007 at 4:39 am

Ah, J had Quetz been a vengeful deity he would simply have used the lightning or changed Billy's ancestry to Spanish!
Billy was allowed to redeem himself in the best way possible and for the benefit of us all!

998. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #58722 by Philip1978 on July 26, 2007 at 12:59 am

Ok Dianelos,

Here is a worse case scenario for you:

YOUR god, during one of your daily chats, tells you he is upset with the world and all their different religions so its time for you, the chosen one, to go do something about it. Conversion is improbable so lets blow them up says your god

What would you do? Since you claim you have this god inside your head and that he is real and pre-determining away quite happily, what would you do? Obviously you have spoken to Him in the past, had good chats, sorted things out, would that voice still be that of your god? If so you would have to do it for it would be His orders, wouldn't you?I mean this could be one of his "ethical challenges" couldn't it?

No, of course you wouldn't, I think you are a rational man incapable of such brutality. But my point is this is what some people hear in their heads, even the clever ones,look at the chaps who recently attacked Glasgow, one of them was a doctor and still justified his actions. From that normal platform of everyday, moderate religion to the horrible and frightening level Sam Harris describes. People charging around saying that morality comes from their god are then able to justify doing such terrible things because the god voice tells them. Their god is the truth, to them, he wouldn't order it unless He meant it, surely?

But no, I imagine you would say, "but my god wouldn't do that!" or something close to it, problem is some people's gods actually DO!

Please don't tell me that in this day and age that even President Bush would not flick the switch, he went on a religious war against Islam for crying out loud, Ok oil as well, but his primary motivations were religious. If you doubt me look back after 9/11 and tell me his god didn't "ethically challenge" him go war on Terror

So next time you have a chat with your god can you tell him to stop making ethical challenges that force people into doing stupid things like kill innocent people in His name and I will be more than proud of you and Him, I might even acknowledge his existence if he was feeling daring enough to prove he exists in the first place!

I advise you to think this one over and see if you can spot the difference between having a chat with Him and having Him ask you to go blow stuff up, cos I still see it as voices in your head no matter what.

Hope the book is getting better,
Philip

999. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #58577 by Philip1978 on July 25, 2007 at 8:35 am

Dianelos,

I really think you should look at what Corylus posted, I think that is one of the best descriptions of Sam Harris I have heard in a while. (My Hat off to you Corylus!)

Ok, you mention all those bad things around the world, how about looking at how religion has some part in the making of those troubles. Then ask yourself why your god isn't doing a damn thing about it? Or are the people responsible for the poverty, starvation, war etc doing their god's will?

SharonMcT, brilliant summary of the issue Harris is arguing, there is an explanation, this is worse case scenario for you, the dewy eyed religite with his finger over the button. Where does he get it from, from the cherry picking moderates who provided him/her with a platform to get things wrong from.

Why is Harris so worried? Look at the enormous amount of religious people in his own country, look at the fact that Pakistan, India and North Korea have illegally obtained Nuclear Secrets, not looking good is it?

Last but not least DrBenway, the Bird has got it right, "Is it extreme to obey God?" These guys pick it up from the platform and turn into extremism, that is what Harris is worried about and so using his background in philosophy and neurology he tells you about it in his book.

sorry if I missed people to quote, but I want Dianelos to understand why Harris is writing what he does, tally ho, am off to see Harry Potter!

Philip

1000. Islamic Creationist and a Book Sent Round the World

Comment #58541 by Philip1978 on July 25, 2007 at 6:45 am

Erm what exactly is Mr Adnan Oktar.on if it isn't the cocaine he is "allegedly" to have found hurtling around his bloodstream?

And why does he like having his photo taken only showing his right side whilst his hand is pulling on something we cant see? Perhaps he is watching "Night at the Museum" on the tv and he is holding the remote to rewind bits!