1001. People who've experienced God KNOW that God exists

Comment #277716 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 4:41 am

91. Comment #277712 by MPhil

I find your objection strange since I elucidated what I meant by that. You read more into it then what I specified. I could understand you doing this if I didn't offer an explanation of what I meant by that, but I did.

1002. People who've experienced God KNOW that God exists

Comment #277709 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 4:28 am

It is not possible to "experience" the supernatural. A personal experience can be and is good evidence for what is occurring at the time of the experience -- the specific event. This doesn't mean that what you infer from that experience is in any way supported by it even if the experienced happened exactly as you remember.

As Steve points out, if someone makes the claim that their experience was of supernatural origin, and knows this, or claims it to be evidence of this, then they are ignorant of the implications of their assertion. This doesn't necessarily mean that what they experienced never occurred, but no matter what they experienced, they can't reasonably draw the conclusion that it was of supernatural origins. Nothing can justify that assertion. That aside, we can deal with the evidence for the experience itself, removed from any interpretive assertions.

Did they have external verification of some kind? Did someone else see it? Was the world effected in some noticeable, or examinable way? Or was it entirely subjective? With zero external verification for the events objective occurrence, as you perceived it? If no then I think that a rational person would not say that they "know" that it happened, and was not illusory.

If there were such external verification, then an investigation can be had, and the evidence can be weighed against your personal experience, and see how well they fit together.

I find the idea that one can interpret an experience with something new, or unknown even remotely accurately to be -- naive -- to put it politely.

Though, in all likeliness, most people that claim to have "supernatural experiences" are probably lying about the events themselves. To avoid wasting time and resources on investigating liars, I think that a person's credibility should first be assessed before an attempt to investigate their claims is even entertained.

1003. People who've experienced God KNOW that God exists

Comment #277706 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 4:12 am

84. Comment #277704 by MPhil

So the fact that there are no groupies adoring you, no cheering and not quite endless decadence is actually PROOF that you're influential.

1004. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277677 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 3:01 am

144. Comment #277673 by Brian English

Thus even the fool must agree that Bond exits

1005. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277668 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:44 am

131. Comment #277659 by Corylus

Because Bond isn't a real guy, I am hotter than he is by virtue of being a real guy?

I'm not sure that I find that all that complimentary.

1006. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277657 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:35 am

128. Comment #277655 by Laurie Fraser

I wish! I'd try to divine his banking information.

Besides, I was lazy and unshaven long before it was cool.

1007. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277654 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:30 am

124. Comment #277651 by Bonzai

I know...enough to haunt your dreams. I try to get rid of it...but I swear that it just keeps coming back somehow. It's spooky.

1008. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277649 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:27 am

121. Comment #277648 by Brian English

People with no hair are touchier.

1009. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277646 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:25 am

If there is one thing that can't be said about me, it's that I try hard at anything.

1010. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277642 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:23 am

106. Comment #277629 by MPhil

When I go into a bar, I usually customize my orders for fancy cocktails or just order one of my own creations.

1011. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277616 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:06 am

90. Comment #277608 by MPhil

Nope, Pliskin is the top secret agent. Best there is.

1012. 'Probably' the best atheist bus campaign ever

Comment #277610 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 2:02 am

484. Comment #277595 by Laurie Fraser

I'm not. I'm a prick.

1013. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277597 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 1:53 am

Pfft! James Bond. No match for Iroquois Pliskin.

1014. Beware - creationism's march will go on

Comment #277581 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 1:38 am

I have no idea what the hell you guys are talkin' about.

1015. 'Probably' the best atheist bus campaign ever

Comment #277561 by Wosret on November 4, 2008 at 1:24 am

468. Comment #277538 by justinbrierley

Depends on how you define "evidence". "Evidence" in the sense of any rigorous methodology, like science? Then there is absolutely none. "Evidence" in a loose sense of "that which tends to imply a conclusion", then that is far more relative and open to ambiguity. You could find evidence that your dog is Napoleon in the news paper if you looked hard enough, and were just crazy enough under a loose enough definition of "evidence".

1016. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277533 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:39 pm

204. Comment #277524 by Steve Zara

Meh, gotta do something to kill the time.

I got this damn song stuck in my head, because I wanted to show Bonzai an anime character I thought he might use for an avatar, so I looked for an AMV about him, and then I got the damn song stuck in my head, and I've watch it like twenty times today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gU4Knueyjk

1017. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277530 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:31 pm

208. Comment #277528 by DarwinsPitbull

Yes: "I know you are but what am I"...I'm back on the playground.

The stubble amplifying my sexy was no joke, that is a categorical fact.

1018. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277529 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:29 pm

206. Comment #277526 by Dr Doctor

Philosophy is crap...

Palin isn't really a right wing wing nut - she is a misunderstood politician who really loves homosexuality...

...all lawyers are ignorant...

God is a man because he likes worm holes.

1019. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277527 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:24 pm

205. Comment #277525 by DarwinsPitbull

No, I was purposely being a right triangle.

1020. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277522 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:20 pm

200. Comment #277518 by DarwinsPitbull

He unequivocally answered that. You quibbled that it wasn't "in his own wording" -- as if that matters -- you tool.

You are just being purposely obtuse.

1021. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277519 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:17 pm

199. Comment #277516 by Steve Zara

He doesn't seem to have the best of memory. I saw him making the point that people make more money because they work harder today, despite Bonzai having destroyed this assertion just a few days ago for him and a couple others.

He didn't seem to remember that when he reasserted it without any sign of scruples.

1022. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #277515 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:09 pm

10242. Comment #277513 by Steve Zara

I'm starting to see why he likes McSame.

1023. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277514 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:08 pm

196. Comment #277511 by DarwinsPitbull

I just told you why. Which part of my explanation don't you understand?

It amplifies my sexy, damn it!

1024. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277509 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:59 pm

193. Comment #277507 by DarwinsPitbull

Thanks and you are a man who needs a razor to shave. Try the Gillette Mach 3, its pretty good.

1025. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277505 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:50 pm

191. Comment #277502 by DarwinsPitbull

No thats not good enough. You have to say it like you mean it. Maybe change the wording around to make it yours.

1026. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #277503 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:48 pm

10237. Comment #277501 by DarwinsPitbull

NO I answered that in my post...

1027. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #277500 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:45 pm

10235. Comment #277499 by Laurie Fraser

Tomato, tom-ah-to.

1028. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277497 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:40 pm

188. Comment #277496 by DarwinsPitbull

Then you admit that your "point" is moot?

1029. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #277495 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:37 pm

10232. Comment #277491 by DarwinsPitbull

This is pure unadulterated mendacity.

1030. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277493 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:34 pm

184. Comment #277488 by DarwinsPitbull

Why is anyone entitled to anything? Because a significant amount of people agree that they ought to be. It isn't written in the stars or anything.

The US constitution is a document which reflects the result of this, and it was not written in stone, nor is it perfect. When a significant amount of people decide upon a new entitlement, then the constitution should be amended to reflect that.

All because it isn't currently in the U.S. constitution doesn't make it a bad idea (every other western first world nation doesn't seem to think that it is) nor does it mean that it ought not be put into the US constitution.

What? Is the constitution your bible or something? The inerrant words of the Founding Fathers, praise be to them?

1031. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #277486 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:20 pm

180. Comment #277481 by DarwinsPitbull

You are saying that if something isn't in the constitution, it is unconstitutional. That is idiotic.

It doesn't matter if what Steve is saying isn't in the constitution is analogous to what you are saying isn't in the constitution. What matters is that neither is in the constitution.

Why is health care unconstitutional for not being in the constitution if the internet is not?

1032. Fred Phelps's son is an atheist: Running from hell

Comment #277433 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Love of mine some day you will die
But I'll be close behind
I'll follow you into the dark

No blinding light or tunnels to gates of white
Just our hands clasped so tight
Waiting for the hint of a spark
If heaven and hell decide
That they both are satisfied
Illuminate the no's on their vacancy signs

If there's no one beside you
When your soul embarks
Then I'll follow you into the dark

1033. Turek vs. Hitchens Debate: Does God Exist?

Comment #277430 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 5:37 pm

700. Comment #277428 by Amy M Cools

When Turek said that, it reminded me of that quote by Sagan: "Philosophy, art, literature, music, poetry, science -- these are the things hydrogen atoms do, given 13.7 billion years."

That is how I would have responded.

1034. Swatting attacks on fruit flies and science

Comment #277401 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 4:15 pm

130. Comment #277397 by root2squared

The weekend's fer booze and tail, son. Don't'cha know?

1035. Fred Phelps's son is an atheist: Running from hell

Comment #277374 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 2:34 pm

68. Comment #277370 by Steve Zara

It wasn't intended to be a profile, but as I was taking the picture Jesus revealed himself to me, as you can see by the glow.

He wanted some advice. I was happy to oblige.

1036. Fred Phelps's son is an atheist: Running from hell

Comment #277352 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Disgusting...and incredibly sad.

50. Comment #277341 by Steve Zara

I speak to you all the time, Steve. Though, I guess I am not quite as lowly as a god. As Anselm points out, existing makes me greater.

1037. Fred Phelps's son is an atheist: Running from hell

Comment #277347 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 12:45 pm

Its handle is a three-foot wooden shaft, twice the density of a baseball bat and its dual-sided iron head is comprised of a chisel and a pick.

1038. People who've experienced God KNOW that God exists

Comment #277316 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:47 am

I believe it was Sam Harris who made this argument (though if it wasn't then I apologize to whomever did).

Say you are standing in a crowd of people, looking up on a stage, and on the stage you see a horse, but the person next to you says that they see a dog, and the person next to them claims to see an elephant, while the person in front of you claims to not see anything at all. Indeed, people begin to separate into groups of people that see the same type of thing, yet even within those groups there are disagreements. Don't you think that it would be reasonable to doubt what you have experienced? Maybe you don't see a horse? Why should you be right, and everyone else be wrong?

In such a situation -- even with direct experience -- can you really say that you "know" that there is indeed a horse on that stage?

1039. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #277312 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 11:32 am

10209. Comment #276920 by Titania

As great as I am I can't seem to ever save anything that I do. Back a few years ago when I was on a poetry kick I wrote hundreds of poems, short stories, and a couple short novels (less than 150 pages each) but I don't have any of them anymore. A few of the poems I could likely recreate from memory if I wanted to, but my interest in poetry has waned.

I also have created a few AMVs that I no longer have.

One of my short novels is posted online, and some of my AMVs are also online, but I no longer have the originals.

I'm not a very nostalgic type of person, so when I lose interest in something, it is unlikely to return.

10212. Comment #277135 by severalspeciesof

I'm also now twice as sexy.

1040. For many evangelicals, it will be the end of the world if Obama wins

Comment #277284 by Wosret on November 3, 2008 at 10:29 am

221. Comment #277121 by Bonzai

As for someone who is young and really smart, Mitchell impresses me more than anyone else.

1041. For many evangelicals, it will be the end of the world if Obama wins

Comment #276969 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 9:56 pm

88. Comment #276961 by Bonzai

That and my winning personality.

Looks like I'm hounding you because I PM'd you about it just now too.

1042. For many evangelicals, it will be the end of the world if Obama wins

Comment #276958 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 9:07 pm

84. Comment #276957 by Bonzai

aka the Alliance who would only get elected in some small rural ridings

1043. For many evangelicals, it will be the end of the world if Obama wins

Comment #276938 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 7:44 pm

70. Comment #276937 by Titania

I bothered Bonzai about that before...he gave me no answer. He needs an avatar.

1044. For many evangelicals, it will be the end of the world if Obama wins

Comment #276930 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 7:28 pm

Fuck these guys. "Focus on the Family"? Focus on your own goddamn family you assholes.

1045. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #276918 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 7:09 pm

I had this as my avatar at the time: http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Gay Jesus_files/jesus kiss.jpg

1046. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #276916 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 7:07 pm

10206. Comment #276892 by Titania

At first I mimicked his syntactic mannerisms, and everyone thought that I was him, but found it difficult to keep up after awhile.

Some people said that they thought that it was likely that I wasn't seriously a theist.

I don't remember exactly how it went, but I particularly liked my explanation of why god is a male, involving black holes and the milky way.

I eventually gave myself up. MPhil was going pretty crazy. Most of my arguments were caricatured theological arguments that were off the wall insane. So he was unraveling them all pretty easily, when he showed up it wasn't as fun anymore.

I would have kept it going a little longer if he hadn't shown up, he was difficult to dodge.

1047. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #276878 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 4:56 pm

10203. Comment #276873 by Titania

You can call me whatever you like. I just wanted to have the same account name everywhere that I frequent. I had always regretted not using "Wosret" originally.

Back when Wooter was creating puppet accounts I made one called "Wheeler" and had some fun with everyone.

I played the theist and argued my most incoherently for theism. I had MPhil pretty wound up. He said I was the best Faux-Theist that has come around. Too bad you can't see that, I got told on (as a puppet account for wooter) and had the account and posts deleted.

1048. Turek vs. Hitchens Debate: Does God Exist?

Comment #276864 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 4:16 pm

690. Comment #276856 by Bonzai

I think that they often (but not always) describe real events, objects, and phenomena, if that is what you mean.

If you mean that they exist in and of themselves in some sense...then I don't think that I can agree with that.

1049. Turek vs. Hitchens Debate: Does God Exist?

Comment #276862 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 4:13 pm

689. Comment #276855 by Steve Zara

I actually agree with that. I think that it is reasonable to assume a multiverse.

I also should specify that I don't think that it is unreasonable to say that the universe could have turned out differently.

I think that it is unreasonable to make predictions about how different, and the way it would be if it did, and what would be possible within this different universe, and so forth.

I will agree that assuming the universe could have turned out differently, and there is some sort of multiverse is probably the safest assumption. I don't think that it is then reasonable to make predictions about them before we know anything.

Take Venus. All we saw was clouds, and from that, we postulate dinosaurs, and swamps, and all sort of nonsense. I think that we need strong data before predictions should be taken seriously.

1050. Turek vs. Hitchens Debate: Does God Exist?

Comment #276854 by Wosret on November 2, 2008 at 4:01 pm

685. Comment #276850 by Bonzai

Well, I can't take up your torch because I don't quite understand what it is that you were saying. I am interested to hear more about it though. Perhaps I can inquire about it later?