1001. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #58521 by Philip1978 on July 25, 2007 at 4:57 am

Last one, I have learned from many masters, esp the ones you mentioned, you did however miss out one the Grand Masters Twii Ning!

Cool we reached thread page 28!

I wholly recommend worshipping Quetz, he is a great deity, plus Billy the Prophet does much good with His one and only Lab coat! Its a good religion and well worth the time and effort, plus the benefit of your god actually communicating with you so that no confusion is made over what He requires of you! Quetz and Billy are actually real, their birth places can be confirmed and they have much wisdom and knowledge, beat that Yahweh and Jesus!

1002. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #58513 by Philip1978 on July 25, 2007 at 4:35 am

Quetz,

"Philip- you mention that you did not know your parents were atheists until later in life. But if you had known as a child that they were atheists (and obviously, understood what that meant), do you think that knowledge would have made it more likely that you would be an atheist, even if they didn't talk to you about it?"

Good point, I think the answer would be yes, if they had mentioned it to me that I would be an atheist in the sense that I looked up to those two for guidance as a kid. Only in the sense that I would not have known what the hell an atheist was or what the consequences of that was. I would have been a kid taught not to believe in gods with this weird word Atheist in my head, again I think that would be just as silly as calling me a Marxist or a Christian.

So what did my parents do?

I will explain it how I see it and see what you guys think

I have grown up with religion as my choice if I ever wanted it to be part of my life, I was first introduced to a god at the Church of England school I went to when I was 5 years old. I saw people praying and I copied them, I hadn't the faintest idea who this god was, all I knew was that the headmaster and the reverend spoke about him a lot in assembly. As far as I know my parents attended all the strange events like Harvest Festival etc where they stood in the pews like everyone else's parents. At the age of about 8 years old I stopped praying to see what would happen, being the inquisitive little chap I was I wanted to see what the fuss was about. Nothing happened. My world did not change in the slightest bit, but I still went along to all these school events with my folks just with the idea this was all a bit weird but went along with it cos my parents and all the other adults were there, I was brought up to be polite around adults so at this young age I simply acted like a normal 8 year old. Pushed the boundaries but learned how to behave when my parents asked me so I wouldn't be a pest...well as much as an 8 year old could!

I got to the age of about 11 or 12 and I asked my parents if they believed in god and they said no and spoke about it with them. All along my parents were more concerned about me learning how to act politely etc rather than think of religion as a good or a bad thing, I was given a choice in the matter and I see that as helpful. I was a child of Atheist parents but I was not labelled as one by them, I had my own choice in the matter.

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

1003. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #58469 by Philip1978 on July 25, 2007 at 1:54 am

Fides, the_assayer

How many times does it have to be explained to you?
Its so effortlessly simple:
Religion is a life changing decision, its something that I think should be made when a person, not a child, is aware of the consequences of that decision. Lets say you were Communists and then you started hurling Trotsky, Lenin, Marx - anything you could find and give it to that kid to digest, do you honestly think that is right influencing that kid with such a massive life changing decision that he/she should be a communist? No? I hope not at 4 years old.

Should little Fides now decide at 4 that the religion of the parents is the one he/she will take or perhaps wait a little bit before he/she is ready to accept that praying is a good or a bad thing?

I dont think Fides is a wicked chap, teaching your child about politeness and good manners is truly commendable ( My uncle would applaud the West Ham bit as well!!) But I do think it is 100% wrong to say that little Fides is now a Christian just because he/she is good at copying dad and mum. He might just as well be praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all the good it is doing at the moment! (then again I think the same way for you guys but you are old enough to debate that with me!)

My parents never forced their atheism on me, I made my own decision about it and never knew they were atheists till much later on in life.

So please, let little Fides grow up without having religion thrown on to him/her and let it arrive like the Communism might!
Cheers, Philip

1004. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Edd Doerr

Comment #58462 by Philip1978 on July 25, 2007 at 12:23 am

Professor Dawkins, AndyD.

I think you are absolutely right, I don't think the "moderator" ( I don't think the moderator ever remains neutral hence the " ") is necessary because, like AndyD said, every time we see you or Chrisopher, Sam et al in a debate, invariably you don't end up debating just the one person you turned up to have a discussion with. You are always seen to be debating with two people and that to me seems to be a little pointless. I would also say that if the "moderator" took your side, its not what the debate is all about.
I don't mind someone there to set the debate going, introducing people and explaining the topic of the debate,that's fine. (OK, you might possibly want someone there stopping the person you are debating with going for your neck after a well phrased denial of the existence of their god but that's beside the point hehehe!)

I too am getting tired of listening to "moderators", please can I hear the debaters?

kind regards,
Philip Priestley

1005. Red Mosque Fueled Islamic Fire in Young Women

Comment #58303 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 10:40 am

Logical, I think you might have the wrong impression about me, I don't want to come across in the way you described, thats not who I am

I am nearly 29 years old and I suppose my posts do come across as slightly naive, I don't think I have explained myself enough from what I understand of the situation in Pakistan or anywhere else in the world where religion has abused women.

I remember chatting to Manfred, an Iranian lady who had escaped persecution and moved to America for safety and I discussed the subject of women and Islam with her and learned a great deal. She described the experience of being a woman in Islam as something very close to Stockholm Syndrome in a prison camp.

If you look at my first post on here I mentioned how numb and ill I feel when I hear about this sort of thing. I totally agree it seems I have had it FAR too easy in my life in comparison to what these people have to endure. I don't want to come across as ungrateful or magnanimous because of where I am and where they are.

The only problem is I can only imagine what those poor women have to go through, I have never ever experienced it so I go on what I can only read and hear about. The fact that I am completely helpless to do anything about it is frustrating and it breaks my heart to see such pointless suffering. I feel great sorrow about how religion ruins and destroys people's lives, men and women have suffered far too much as a result of backward thinking and stupidity.

Please don't think that my joking around with Quetz or my sometimes over the top posts indicate that I think I am special or not caring about the plight of these women and all others for whom religion has segregated and abused for centuries. I am an optimistic man, I do have hope this will change and if I find a way I can contribute to it I will. But please don't think that I would dare assume to be in any way disingenuous to the plight of these women. I hope that clears things up,
kind regards,
Philip

1006. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #58301 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 10:05 am

Dianelos,

Harris= Anger? Which End of Faith book have you been reading from? Have you not been on the other posts where he is in video, he is as calm as a coma! He has always maintained, he is not out to offend anyone, he just wants to provide a reasonable argument against the necessity of faith without evidence

The first 30 pages have no angry statements in them at all as far as I can tell and I have the book in front of me! I don't know why you find it nauseating but I guess I find it tough to read the bible without getting a little weirded out!

He talks about faith and its effect on people, he talks about the abnormal respect people have for religion but have no reasonable basis for it.
He talks about the difference between extremists and moderates and the bad effect they have on religion, moderates being the platform for the extremists. He talks about how different religion has been throughout history and lastly about the need for faith, if the world woke up tomorrow and had no memory but had the all the books we have in front of them, would the bible or Qu'ran still be useful?

The angriest quote I can see so far is the bible quote from Deuteronomy 13:7-11

Where on earth did you find him angry? His tone is straight forward and to the core of the argument he wishes to discuss.

I think J has got it right, you have played your Virtue! No further questions allowed!" card. Its like when I have been typing to David Robertson and mentioned the plethora of other gods out there and he comes back at me saying but there is only one true god and you cant touch him, how dare you even think it! He thinks I am attacking him when I am merely pointing out the straight forward fact there is an absolute supermarket of gods to chose from out there

My advice is don't look at Harris as angry, from the evidence I have seen and read so far and this is from reading Letter To a Christian Nation as well, is that he is very direct when dealing with the issue in front of him. If you don't believe me go and look at his debate with Andrew Sullivan on this site or I think there is a recent video of him speaking in one of the recent articles.

I am glad you are reading it though, keep up the good work, cheers,
Philip

1007. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #58276 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 8:14 am

Billy,
One lump these days, used to be 2 in my youth, but I found I can issue rational vengeance with less effort these days, such are the wonders of the training!

1008. Red Mosque Fueled Islamic Fire in Young Women

Comment #58274 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 8:10 am

Just had a thought, could anyone actually and democratically get to power in a place like that?

Military dictatorship is vile, I oppose it as much as you do, but how on earth could anyone step in there saying "Right, lets actually vote for this one, women included..."! (Riot breaks out...speaker says "sorry, did I say something wrong? Which part exactly"?!) How do you control fundamentalists in a volatile country like that? If AQ get in you are then facing the same problem as Iraq, getting rid of AQ would mean replacing them with something that would work out there, the mind doth boggle as to where to start!

Please someone give them some beer drinking etiquette , education as to how to be nice to women and get rid of that bloody stupid book!

1009. Red Mosque Fueled Islamic Fire in Young Women

Comment #58267 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 7:28 am

Quetzalcoatl

I agree with you, the place is better off with Musheraff, its such a terrible position for him to be in. The pressure of the extremists upon the government is huge, the problem is Musheraff has acquiesced to them before, e.g when he wanted to revise Rape law. That reduced his power base considerably, I think he is slowly making it back up but its so difficult. The fact those guys and their surrounding fanatical countries have now got nuclear knowledge does not help matters at all, as you said, its horrific. If the real nutters get in I do not want to think about the consequences and I think that's what the international community is working on, maintaining relations so they don't have to go that far. I hope...eek!

Dammit, why cant they just worship you and the prophet billy, tis so much safer!

1010. Red Mosque Fueled Islamic Fire in Young Women

Comment #58254 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 6:49 am

MadMonk,

I think the Madrasa can be split into two things

1) a "hifz" which is memorisation of the Qu'ran and

2) "alim" which is more a sort of university course on Arabic, shari'ah law, Hadith Studies etc A bit like a history degree with law!

Both in my opinion dangerous because it allows for more religious indoctrination disguised as a form of education and learning. This is one of the reasons they are so fanatical about Islam, its all they are ever taught and it does not prepare them for the modern world, its so sad.

One day they might learn, oh well,
cheers,
Philip

1011. Red Mosque Fueled Islamic Fire in Young Women

Comment #58247 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 6:16 am

I always feel numb when reading this sort of thing, I read all these statements like

"In heaven you get everything without hardship," explained Miss Sarfraz, daughter of a bus driver. "In heaven, if a martyr feels hungry, food appears, the best quality food, and you won't even know where it came from"

and it makes me feel ill

Religion and its promise of afterlife really annoys me, what is so wrong with this life? Don't these people ever connect the hardships they are going through are the direct result of their religion and if they gave it up and used common sense their lives would improve? Do they not connect their 14th century existence is a result of adhering to a 8th century book? No they don't and that is what makes me so numb and powerless to do anything about it, I hope things change, I really do

1012. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #58244 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 6:02 am

JC
I agree with you, one of the reasons I love the Iliad and the Oddessey is because of the poetry, I think one thing that amused me about it is even after a most bloody and gratuitous battle the day before the sun rises "rosy fingered" the next morning!

I dont suppose you could recommend any books on the Wromans (no, Roman... STWIKE HIM!) of that period, I am going to read more about it one day and any assistance would be welcomed! I have learned a little here and there about the spread of Judaism and Christianity throughout the Wroman empire in face of the one god religion(whose name escapes me at this point of typing!). I know that Constantine had a very marked effect upon the spread of Christianity when he came to power but my knowledge of stuff beforehand is still very sketchy. I have studied the Goon Show, but I think their interpretation of the Histories of Pliny the Elder are a little off the scale! hehehehe!

Cheers,
Philip

1013. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #58235 by Philip1978 on July 24, 2007 at 4:45 am

I am from the south of England, my martial art is Tea-Fu, powerful and quick it is! Plus has many forms depending on the time of day (Breakfast, Afternoon etc) or other powerful forms such as Assam and Earl Grey!

Re-generation of limbs is incredible, Billy, why are we so crap at re-generation, is it highly improbable with our DNA or something?

I can't understand the bible and how people keep interpreting it in different ways to justify "faith" in their god as opposed to another as being plausible. I have posed this question to several of the theists on this site and have usually got the same answer along the lines of "but my god is different...". I think what I want from the bible as Mark has suggested is to use it as a historical document since we have very little to show for that period of time. From what I have seen so far from writers such as Josephus's or Tacitus's it is highly interesting comparing their versions with the bible authors. Sadly, as Billy has shown, parts have been tampered with by future writers. As I posted before I have read things like Homer's Iliad and found it to be full of holes but possibly showing the way of life from that time period. Evidence is so sketchy and minimal but the story is much better than reality!!

Tally Ho, I am off to study more advanced Tea-Fu moves,
Philip

1014. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #58040 by Philip1978 on July 23, 2007 at 5:20 am

Bouwe
I think it has been this so far in no particular order:

1) Bible Prophesy, is it accurate?
2) Bible Historical Inaccuracy
3) Did Jesus Exist?
4) The Great Deluge- Problems with Noah and the flood itself
5) Billy's Gay Fruit Fly collection and Lab coat
6) Pigeon Hate
7) Monty Python
8) Douglas Adams
Forgive me if I missed anything, please feel free to add!

Personally I dislike pigeons greatly, when evolution was handing out decent bird song and vision, pigeon was either last in line, drunk or out playing with the chickens. I hated being woken up at 5:00am with that ridiculous oooooo hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hoooo ooooooooooo hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hoooo, them pooing on my parent's patio with reckless abandon and their inability to walk around and see anything without moving their heads back and forth.

Yay to Falcons!

Bouwe, one more thing, what....is your favourite colour?! :)
Cheers,
Philip

1015. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #58038 by Philip1978 on July 23, 2007 at 4:54 am

Dear all,
I have now decided after many cups of tea that I will now go and follow the religion of the Malaysians and worship The Giant Tea Pot and also go worship the Campaign For Real Ale.

Tea provides me with an inner comfort and strength, Ale provides me with fuzzy warmth and clarity of mind unachieved by normal means

I have found that by drinking Tea and Ale I can achieve equilibrium in life, I will explain.
Tea makes you more awake, Ale makes you sleepy, drinking too much of either results in heading too far in one way. So, for example, having a fine pint of Wells Bomabadier after too much tea regains my worldview balance to being more stable. I awaiting the day where I can drink enough Tea and Ale to achieve True Balance.

Who thinks this is mad?

Answers on a post,
Cheers,
Philip

1016. Is there an Artificial God?

Comment #57387 by Philip1978 on July 19, 2007 at 5:21 am

I am a massive Douglas Adams fan, I read this speech when I got the Salmon of Doubt but I appreciate it a whole lot more listening to his voice.

I love the caveman and his cousin Ug analogy, priceless, plus I love the "Anything that happens, happens" argument very powerful indeed, that and "I'll have it off him"! kind of explains religious history quite well hehehehehehe!

Its weird, I obviously never knew him or met him but I lament the fact that I will never have the chance, in all improbability of it happening in the first place, to say to a friend if he had ever walked past "Hey you, sass that hoopy Douglas Adams, now there's a frood who really knows where his towel is!"

Thanks Douglas, much appreciated

Philip

1017. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #57370 by Philip1978 on July 19, 2007 at 3:32 am

_J_
(I'm a bit jealous, actually. You, Sharon McT, Dr Benway and Philip1978 seem to have brains and depth perception)

Me? Depth, brains? Have you completely lost it young man? Has that play of yours finally sent your massive intellect completely barking mad? My debating skills so far on this thread is to point out to poor Dianelos that I can spell anthropomorphism correctly without my spell-checker hinting otherwise, my knowledge of Norse Mythology and Douglas Adams! I used the Hunt The Wocket Analogy for crissakes! The others, yes, without a doubt I take my hat off to all of you, you really have got Dianelos thinking, my only hope is that I have been making him and the rest of you laugh! Now get back to work you crapulent fool! hehehehe

Corylus, I have often wondered if humans would ever dare find a cure for the 200 strains of the cold virus, Madras and a good Shiraz sounds like the right stuff, but not now cos its only half past 11 in the morning where I am!

Right, lunch!
Philip

1018. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #57139 by Philip1978 on July 18, 2007 at 11:16 am

Dianelos,

This is all getting too weird for me, I will have to be honest here, I was referring to the real world vs real world with your god in it. Call it Naturalism if you want but I call it the real world

My mind is totally and utterly confused as to what your god actually does cos the whole reason I put another god in your sentence was to highlight the fact your god is exactly the same as Odin, here goes again:

"No, nothing like that. First of all, again, you must not imagine that idealistic Norse God worship asserts the same reality that naturalism does plus Odin guiding or interfering with nature. According to idealistic Norse Religion Odin produces all order present in our experience of physical phenomena. So, evolution by natural selection is nothing more than a (indeed very clever) idea in the mind of Odin, as are all explanatory patterns present in our experience of physical phenomena, including all physical laws or the Andromeda galaxy."

See? Odin has absolutely every right to take your god's place because it is just as possible for him to do it, except he made the earth out of the dead body of his dad!


Whats all this predetermined and guiding stuff your god does? Can you thank him from me for the fact I have a mild case of Fragile X? Was he a bit slow on the uptake? Whoops, missed that Philip, I was too busy guiding and predetermining which switches I would use to turn the galaxy on!

If I have a little girl child she will grow up with the equivalent of Downs Syndrome and Autism or my son might possibly grow up with learning difficulties. A few years ago a doctor took some blood, did some tests and now I know that I am never going to have kids in my life cos it would be too cruel to inflict that on them knowing what I do now. Its a load of shitty biology and a rubbish x chromosome, that's easy for me to accept and I am not in the slightest bit upset or angry. Do you realise that if your god was real I would have to blame him for being a complete **** for knowing he could have prevented it or that he somehow predetermined I should have this. What makes me so special that I could even say something like that when others in this world are having a worse time of it than I am?. How ridiculous does that sound, me blaming the improbable and invisible for my misfortunes when I can simply attribute it to my crap biology. I don't have to use anthropomorphism my problems, I simply have to deal with it and I have.

Please understand I am not frothing at you for any of this, I simply do not like the idea of a god buggering around with my life as if I was on some sort of path.

You typed:

theism = naturalism + God

heres my version

theism = Asking and inviting the Invisible and Highly Improbable for help explaining Life, The Universe and Everything

I see you disagree with my magic theory:

If it were then what you say above would be reasonable: Here we have naturalism's understanding of reality, it works pretty well (actually it doesn't really but never mind), so why should I add to it some magical being like God?

I think you are failing to understand just how much of a magical being your god actually is to be able to do the things you claim he can do. Heres a list of all the magical things I think he can do, please correct me if I am wrong

1. Omniscience
2. Omnipotence
3. Omnipresence
4. Invisibility



Humans have created their gods out of all sorts of things, even the Malaysian Tea Pot God for goodness sake! They have been claiming since the dawn of time that he can do this that and the other better and more plausibly than the other gods that others worship

I know Douglas Adams was no philosopher but I cant argue with the phrase "Anything that happens, happens", that to me is life at it most simple, if you want Occam's Razor to shave with there it is. It just happens, why is god needed to help nudge it into happening that? To me implies magic, mysticism, super-natural, weird or as I am sorry to crudely put it BOLLOCKS! Really, the search for god is in my view exactly the same as Douglas's Hunt the Wocket!

I hope you understand I only think you are only slightly more barking mad than I and that if you understood any of the above, bravo! I have a cold at the moment so sense may have gone out with the Wocket hunters and I will edit this later.

Right, I need more Tea, tally ho!
Philip

1019. Convict sues God for broken contract

Comment #56984 by Philip1978 on July 18, 2007 at 3:52 am

Lee,
You never know, he might go for the affirmation! hehehehehe

Philip

1020. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #56963 by Philip1978 on July 18, 2007 at 1:06 am

Paul,

I think you might have glossed over the part of my post which said I am an absolute duffer when it comes to science! I am a very poor English and History grad, I don't mean to appear so thick, even after being on this site for a heck of a long time its still all sinking in! I do hope that my argument about animals evolving over time seems a bit silly for a god that is supposed to be able to wave his magic and divine hands and thus it should simply be done.

Downunder,

You ask how long to wait, I would probably have to say when hell freezes over! oh no, wait, that happened in the Norse religion! Don't put yourself down, my rubbish is far worse than yours is!

Hello Eli, great to have you here, I have been following this thread for a while and to be honest my conclusion is I am completely confused, granted it doesn't take much, but confused I am! I am of the opinion that Dianelos's god is completely unnecessary in explaining things that happen, I have mentioned this to him several times, heck I even quoted the mighty Douglas Adams at him, TWICE! He is a resolute fellow and has not yet failed to be a highly intelligent and forceful debater, how dare he!
I am still winning though (you can tell I'm an optimist cant you!!), he hasn't yet proved to me that Odin or Thor are any different to his god, mwhahahaha get out that one matey!! neither has he got his god posting on this thread yet, I would then understand why prayers would not get answered for a while cos he would be too addicted to posting on here arguing his existence!! hehehehe

As you see I am crap at all this but feel its worth the effort because all of the others on this thread are enormously intelligent and its incredible reading, cheers,
Philip

1021. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #56769 by Philip1978 on July 17, 2007 at 6:57 am

Dianleos,
Hehe, am glad your god is not too strict!

"No it doesn't make any sense to me, because I don't believe that Thor exists. But I believe that God exists, so the situation is quite different, don't you think?"

Well, no, I don't see any difference between your god or Thor (or even his dad Odin, who along with his brothers is supposed to have made the earth out of their dad!) The only difference I see between the two is that more people have realised Thor is but a myth, a legend, man made at that.

Thor is/was a god, yes? Men created him to suit their specific surroundings, environment and for example attributed lightning as being one of his little quirks. Anthropomorphising lightning so it has that extra "magic" of being hurled by a displeased deity is the bit that makes no sense to me. Lightning is lightning, Thor, Zeus, Odin etc did not and do not chuck it about, mankind has learned that its not "magic", its just lightning!

Can you see where I am heading with this, things happen on this world, in the universe, its mind bogglingly fun and exciting, there are things we can and cant explain but why oh why is magic added into it? I can see your point about being able to criticize naturalism, of course you should, I welcome it.

But surely reason is better at making things work than magic? God waving his magic hands around to make things do stuff is beyond reason and sense. At least I have a clearer idea as to how evolution happens and I am a complete duffer when it comes to science! I have no idea at all as to how or why your god does the things you say he can.

An example, a set of creatures are bouncing around in tropical climates on planet Earth when, over a number of years, an Ice age arrives. Most of these creatures snuff it, some baby creatures develop over time, if the species is able to survive long enough, fur to adapt to the cold. Now did your god or even Odin and his brothers organise the cold weather in the tropical climate to kill off the weakest creatures, then muck around with the genetics of the little baby creatures so that over a number of generations there are more animals with fur coats? Being a god, Odin would, if he had been in the mood (worked primarily as the mood took him from what I read!), might have conjured up a fur coat for the animal before the Ice Age hit. Would that not seem a little bit more logical for a god? Surely being a god he would know the Ice age is on its way cos he created it all, why all that mucking around over sometimes millions of years when he/she/it has the power to simply create it there and then? Or am I applying human standards to a deity I know nothing about?

The only reason I type that your god or Odin should not have taken their time over the whole thing is that prayers are supposed to be answered quite quickly. If dear old Odin has the power to do that, if he is in the mood, why not with small creatures on a world he is supposed to have created? "Quick here you go guys the weather is about to get cold, kapow, there's something to help you along a bit!"

Evolution is a gradual process over many many years, starting from simple to more complicated as the need arises. Gods should not have to take that long surely?

6 days sounds about better, "right, that's your lot, I am taking Sunday off, catch you later, call me on Monday if you need to!"

Forgive me, I am being a little silly, I cant help it, but I am seriously interested as to how and why your god needs to be involved with the world, as I said before he is not needed, it simply happens anyway,
Cheers,
Philip

1022. Darwin or Design

Comment #56737 by Philip1978 on July 17, 2007 at 4:42 am

I could never wear The Coat I am not worthy, Billy's knowledge (that of course you gave unto him too) of how to create Gay Fruit Flies surpasses anything I may conjure up, plus he can clone CJ22's avatar for Your Glory, he is Worthy!

1023. Darwin or Design

Comment #56731 by Philip1978 on July 17, 2007 at 4:18 am

Sciphishow, I really urge you to stop and think before calling someone like PZ or any other atheists dogmatic or religious. I am convinced there is no god because of good evidence, my opinion like all the others here, was shaped by reason and proper logical thinking. That could all change were we presented with other evidence for god's existence that was reasonable. At the moment evidence for any deity is unreasonable, untestable and more to the point MAN made, nothing more. That is not dogmatic or religious, how can it be when there is no god involved?


pewkatchoo:
Billy is wearing his Lab coat bequeathed to him by the Almighty Quetz, logicbombs simply explode next to Him, he will be fine... wont you Billy...of course, I have Faith, he will be ok...that means he will be...right?....BILLY SPEAK TO US!

Edit: Ahhhh Thank Quetz, for He lives!

1024. The New New Atheism

Comment #56722 by Philip1978 on July 17, 2007 at 3:55 am

I really love the way he says Hitchens et all are fantastically intelligent yet its McGrath who is the really clever and intelligent one cos he uses GOD!

I agree with J (So the play is finished then young man, is it, hmmm?!!) the more pressing issue is Dr Benway's return to mooning!

Philip

1025. The fundamentalist delusion

Comment #56499 by Philip1978 on July 16, 2007 at 3:51 am

Nooooo Mr Dawkin's, you evil evil man, wanting to take my god away and call HIM naughty names!

I really laugh at the way that the Professor is made to sound shrill and nasty even though that quote he used is the nastiest thing typed into the God Delusion! I love it when people get offended about the invisible being insulted! Does his god
really need this much protection from those naughty atheists who say bad things about his existence and character? There he is quoting McGrath saying we are worried and that atheism is falling, what a load of rubbish! I would say people are becoming more aware than ever that there is now a bigger voice for atheism than there ever has been, this guy is definitely worried about that!

stephenray you are right, they should not make such preposterous assertions!
Cheers, Philip

1026. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #56494 by Philip1978 on July 16, 2007 at 3:21 am

Dianelos, you are a naughty boy, you said you were not coming back!!

"Indeed, if people can live well while believing that God does not exist then so much the better: it only shows how many paths towards Him/Her God opens for us, how really open God's arms are for us all."

Huh? I am convinced there is no god so how am I on the path to god?

I really do think you need to think about that statement. That's like saying the TV man in Douglas Adams's quote is actually working his way to believing in the little men in the TV despite the fact that he has just spent time explaining that they dont exist. They are not required to make the TV work so why would he then be making his path towards the little men?

Same with me and your god, I don't need your god, I am convinced he is a figment of your imagination and am not working down any path to go find him.

Here is your statement again, does it make sense now?

"Indeed, if people can live well while believing that Thor does not exist then so much the better: it only shows how many paths towards Thor opens for us, how really open Thor's arms are for us all."

Thor does not exist yet Thor's arms are open for us? Odd, very odd!

Anyway, stop being such a naughty boy and posting on here, you are a bad influence!!
Cheers
Philip

1027. The Republican War on Science Rages On

Comment #55992 by Philip1978 on July 13, 2007 at 5:54 am

J get back to that play writing you naughty naughty boy! ( You did ask us to remind you heheheh!)

1028. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #55981 by Philip1978 on July 13, 2007 at 4:59 am

Quetz,
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. (Matthew 2.22,23)

So if that is Samson in the Judges quote, what prophesy is Matthew referring to in his gospel? I am going cross eyed...

1029. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #55972 by Philip1978 on July 13, 2007 at 4:25 am

I...cant...help...it...must post!!

My favourite colour is blue!

Ok, here's my full take on Nazareth, I am convinced there is a big problem with this whole thing because of the prediction supposedly made in Judges 13.5 where it is said:


'For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.' '

Now as far as I know Nazarite means 'he who vows to grow long hair and serve god', (Ozzy Ozbourne?heheh!)The Nazarenes were a Jewish/Christian split off group from the 2nd Century Jewish/Christian group called the Essenes. They even had their own Gospel of the Nazarenes, nothing of course to do with Nazareth the city and more the Hebrew name for Truth or Flower(netser)

I find it a huge and strange coincidence that then Matthew attributes it to the Old Testament prophesy by twisting a word to fit a city name.

I nicked this from another site http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.html cos I am a lazy man and I think this is a clearer explanation than I could give

"It seems that, along with the Nozerim, a related Jewish/Christian faction, the Evyonim – 'the Poor' (later to be called Ebionites) – emerged about the same time. According to Epiphanius (Bishop of Salamis , Cyprus, circa 370 AD) they arose from within the Nazarenes. They differed doctrinally from the original group in rejecting Paul and were 'Jews who pay honour to Christ as a just man...' They too, it seems, had their own prototype version of Matthew – 'The Gospel to the Hebrews'. A name these sectaries chose for themselves was 'Keepers of the Covenant', in Hebrew Nozrei haBrit, whence Nosrim or Nazarene!

In other words, when it came to the crunch, the original Nazarenes split into two: those who tried to re-position themselves within the general tenets of Judaism ('Evyonim'-Nosrim); and those who rejected Judaism ('Christian'-Nosrim)

Now, we know that a group of 'priestly' families resettled an area in the Nazareth valley after their defeat in the Bar Kochbar War of 135 AD (see above). It seems highly probable that they were Evyonim-Nosrim and named their village 'Nazareth' or the village of 'The Poor' either because of self-pity or because doctrinally they made a virtue out of their poverty.


So, there be the history of Nazareth, I just cant see Jesus having lived there when it was a graveyard (well, old JC has a reputation for raising folk from the dead, it could have happened..hehe) I think the story of Jesus being there is just a confusion with the earlier prophesy made in the Old Testament that Luke et all managedd to merge into their interpretations of the Christian/Jewish religion that had managed to gain such a reputation in the 1st Century
I hope I am not talking wiffle here, someone please help me out if I am being daft!

Billy, here is the link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/11/ntablet111.xml
Cheers All!

Philip

1030. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #55946 by Philip1978 on July 13, 2007 at 2:31 am

I also would like to add my thanks to you all for posting on this thread, I have been reading it with great interest and slight bewilderment!
Dianelos, I am still convinced your belief in your God is very much like that Douglas Adams story I offered you all the way back in the dark depths of this thread. BUT I think you have brought a lot to this thread and I am glad to have learned things from you, all the best for the future unless you cant go cold turkey and HAVE to come back and post one more time!! hehehe!


Downunder, Remember, the Force will be with you, always...

Cheers, Philip

1031. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #55736 by Philip1978 on July 12, 2007 at 6:04 am

Mark,
Cheers tons again, I promise I will treat the Bible, both testaments, as a historical document along the same lines as you said about Zeus and the ancient gods. Good example is the Trojan War, I love reading about it, I have read Homer's Iliad and Oddessey in the poem form and small books as well, they may not be completely historically accurate, heck the Trojan War may not have been fought, Troy may not have existed but I still think there is some historical worth to it.
Right, stop bothering this poor man Philip, let him answer other questions!! hehehe
All the best,
Philip

1032. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #55675 by Philip1978 on July 12, 2007 at 1:09 am

Mark, thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it. I did indeed read in the paper yesterday about that discovery they made that proves part of the Old Testament that was previously thought to be false all because a scholar managed to catch sight of a name, very interesting
I have no desire to become weird over all this, rather I wish to learn more about this particular piece of history simply because it interests me greatly. I see what you mean about getting too pedantic over it and then being made to look daft later on. I don't mind being proved wrong on something that I am convinced of being right, I just think its good to have somewhere to start from and see where it takes me. I will always question what I see as wrong but am not too stubborn to accept others advice and ideas.

I have been an atheist all my life, through no coercion from anyone, I stopped praying at about 8 years old to see what would happen and nothing did, nothing changed for me. I enjoyed studying English and History because it allowed me to question things, research it, formulate opinions and back them up with evidence ( Am still completely rubbish at it hehehe!). The Bible, in my opinion, has many questionable aspects to it and I want to investigate them to see what I can find out. Looking through this thread the others have also found amazing and interesting facts that they have presented you with, you have also produced some well put together arguments and I have decided that I want to know more about it. Until I have proof or evidence to change my mind I will keep up with the opinion that the Bible is wrong on many levels, but that could change, I hope you too would change your mind too if properly convinced. ( Judging by what I have seen you type on this thread I get the impression you would)
Right, I will sit back for a while and let you get back to your discussions with Lee and the others, I hate to interrupt but did want to hear your opinion, thank you for your time,
Philip

1033. Inferior Design: Richard Dawkins reviews Behe's lastest book

Comment #55672 by Philip1978 on July 12, 2007 at 12:43 am

Robert Maynard, Creator, typed

Who are you, mere mortal, to question the perceived deficiencies of your own perfect design?

Philip, Mere Mortal replies,

I am Philip and I was supposed to be made in your own image! Why the hell did you include the foreskin if you only want to cut it off again, get back to the drawing board matey or do I have to bring out the babel fish and prove you exist therefore you don't!
*Stomps on Distortion Pedal and delivers a dramatic and resounding E Chord on guitar played through a Fender Valve Amp*

1034. Inferior Design: Richard Dawkins reviews Behe's lastest book

Comment #55469 by Philip1978 on July 11, 2007 at 7:55 am

Bizzaro,
You typed "I was obviously implying that the human body functions just as it is supposed to function if it was created by a Creator."

My body is not really functioning as if a creator had any say in it, one look would tell you I need to exercise more if I want those abs of justice hehehe!
Seriously though, I have a very mild form of a condition known as Fragile X, it has all the hallmarks closely akin to that of Downs Syndrome and Autism. I was technically lucky in the sense that I have a very mild case of it. I have an almost dyslexic problem with maths, it simply does not work in my head, even simple sums sometimes baffle me for ages. The result of this is that I am a more visual and lateral thinking person because of how I arrive at conclusions that others would have a more straight forward way of arriving at.

The big problem with this and this is why I don't agree that there is a Creator who designed my body is that there is a strong chance that if I had a female child she would have this condition full blown. If I have a male there is a chance of it not being there or he will have learning difficulties worse than mine. I would call that imperfect design rather than the thinking of a supposedly omniscient and omnipotent deity. Why bother mucking around with my genetics to that degree? Makes more sense that I am simply unlucky enough to have been given a weak X chromosome passed down from one side of family and that is simply biology and shitty genetics and nobody's fault. At the moment, there is also no known cure, a Creator again has mucked up because this needs curing and correcting. I hope someday scientists do find an answer, I know people who have this worse than I do and its awful.

I am not having a go at you I promise but I just cant see a Creator having anything to do with my condition, seems a bit strange to me,
take care
Philip

1035. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #55454 by Philip1978 on July 11, 2007 at 6:44 am

Mark, its great to have you back and that you are not too Tyred hehehehahahahah, please troll me now, that was awful!

I actually have been meaning to ask you a question, I have posted somewhere else about the subject of Nazareth and if it actually existed during the time of Jesus in the 1st Century. The only information I have garnered so far has shown me that the site that modern day Nazareth sits on was in fact a graveyard for the people of a nearby town called Japha up until the year 67Ad when Emperor Trajan destroyed the place. I was wondering if you knew of any historical writings other than the Bible that there was an actual city called Nazareth around the start of the 1st Century. I know you have a load to catch up on, I think you might want to reply to other posts on here first but if you could offer some advice I would be grateful

Lee, I could quit too, I could, just...dont...want to...

More Single Malt, less CK One, it will do you good!

Cheers, Philip

1036. Praying to a milk jug

Comment #55450 by Philip1978 on July 11, 2007 at 6:05 am

Billy,
Its ok, I firmly believe that if I keep my rock solid faith in Quetz and all His glory,he will embolden Arthur the Caterpillar with great strength and thus he will save the day and foil Evil Edna's plans

How do you convince the religious their god does nothing? I think Rtambree is right, human weirdness has a lot to answer for!
This reminds me a lot of Andrew Sullivan, how that guy keeps his faith going whilst all that has happened to him I don't know. His internal fantasy is indeed limitless as the debate on this site has shown, Sam won the argument yet he feels stronger, the Catholic church hates gay people, yet he is gay and Catholic! My mind could not be more boggled unless I had been at the Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters!

Ah back to Willow the Wisp, its more logical!

1037. Praying to a milk jug

Comment #55430 by Philip1978 on July 11, 2007 at 4:40 am

Praise be to the prophet Dr Billy and to Quetz for sending His one and only Lab Coat, blessed be His Television may it grant us all with The Wisdom, Thank Quetz for capital letters!


Oh bl**dy hell, not again, what is this stuff in my sandwiches?

I am convinced that any Christian or Muslim or Mormon looking at those videos can simply turn around and say "But that's not my God!" and remain steadfast in their delusion. I think this is best explained by posters like Bizzaro, David Robertson, Diaenelous and others, defining what their God is and what that God does is extremely difficult because each has their own special idea as to how things work. Each time I have made suggestions as to what I think of their God and the response is always along the lines of "but my God does this..."

Good video though and yes, shame about the voice!

1038. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #55402 by Philip1978 on July 11, 2007 at 2:57 am

GBG
Hello at last! I did post something last night but it went weird on me and I was too tired to do it again!

Right, I will press on, hopefully not making howlingly stupid errors about where Jesus was born but rather where he grew up ( History and English grad, what do you expect!)

Right, I said I was going to provide evidence on why I think Jesus did not exist so here goes, I think first I will concentrate on Nazareth where he grew up and move on from there.

According to the Bible this is what Luke has to say on it

And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
(Luke 2.39,40)

Now if I am correct Jesus grew up around the start of the 1st century, ok its highly debatable as to exactly when this happened because Matthew and Luke cannot agree on that but that is for a later discussion.

My problem is this, after having read a few articles here and there on the internet and then discovering a book by Kenneth Humphreys, Jesus Never Existed I have come to the conclusion that it would have been pretty harsh for Jesus growing up in that area.
Humphreys argues that there was a place not far from the site of present day Nazareth called Japha. He states that up until the year 67, when Emperor Trajan demolished them, Japha had been using the site of Nazareth as a burial ground and evidence of a cemetery have been found. Don't you think it would have been a little harsh growing up in a graveyard? (I suppose since JC was able to raise the dead, company would have not been a problem! hehehe please excuse me, that was juvenile, I can't help it!)

My other big problem is the name Nazareth's connection to Jesus does not appear until the 4th Century on anything I have looked at, I could be wrong, as I said before, I am only beginning to learn about all this. Thing is The Old Testament makes no reference to it, the Talmud, Jewish History and Law book mentions Galilee and 63 towns inside and around it, but no Nazareth. There are records of a Itinerarium Burdigalens that Humphreys refers to, a Pilgrim from Bordeaux who anonymously left a document dated to 333 AD showing where the route went. This person goes through Jerusalem and Bethlehem amongst other places, yet again he does not pass through the "City" that his saviour grew up in, why?

Now, Matthew wrote this in his gospel:

"...And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
(Matthew 2.22,23)

The Nazarenes were a break off group from the Jewish group the Essenes from around the 2nd century AD. According to some bits I have read they were followers who took their beliefs from the Old and New Testament. The Old Testament refers to a "Nazarite" in Judges 13.5, translated from the Hebrew means 'One how vows to grow his hair long and serve God' and Matthew amazingly manages to turn this around so that the prophesy comes true by making him a Nazarene to imply that the Nazareth story fits. I personally think that is a little fabricated to say the least, what do you think? Hang on, wait a minute, isn't that above quote from the book of Judges about Samson? Have I found an error? Time to start brushing up on your evolution I think! hehehehe

How did Nazareth get its name? Humphreys says this:

It seems that, along with the Nozerim, a related Jewish/Christian faction, the Evyonim – 'the Poor' (later to be called Ebionites) – emerged about the same time. According to Epiphanius (Bishop of Salamis , Cyprus, circa 370 AD) they arose from within the Nazarenes. They differed doctrinally from the original group in rejecting Paul and were 'Jews who pay honour to Christ as a just man...' They too, it seems, had their own prototype version of Matthew – 'The Gospel to the Hebrews'. A name these sectaries chose for themselves was 'Keepers of the Covenant', in Hebrew Nozrei haBrit, whence Nosrim or Nazarene!

In other words, when it came to the crunch, the original Nazarenes split into two: those who tried to re-position themselves within the general tenets of Judaism ('Evyonim'-Nosrim); and those who rejected Judaism ('Christian'-Nosrim)

Now, we know that a group of 'priestly' families resettled an area in the Nazareth valley after their defeat in the Bar Kochbar War of 135 AD (see above). It seems highly probable that they were Evyonim-Nosrim and named their village 'Nazareth' or the village of 'The Poor' either because of self-pity or because doctrinally they made a virtue out of their poverty

Right, I have wiffled for long enough, I will go and look at the stuff you gave me and get back to you, though I may just concentrate on the Tacitus stuff because I cant see Jesus of Nazareth in that Testimony, I only see the words "wise man" alongside Socrates and Pythagoras, doesn't make sense to say that is proof of his existence
I quoted most of what I have typed from http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ and also the book itself should you wish to read more.

I will hunt for other books at some point, I don't like just relying on one source, even though Humphreys uses many sources of his own.

Hope you find this interesting and I would love to hear your comments on this, as I said before, I am here to learn and understand and well as wiffle hehe!
take care,
Philip

1039. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #54889 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 8:34 am

Dammit GBG, I had a whole passage just deleted as I was checking stuff!

I was wrong to say Nazareth was the birthplace, thanks for pointing that out, but I still stand by my opinion that it was not there at the time of Jesus, it was a grave yard for the people who lived nearby in Jafa who were massacred by Emperor Trajan later on but more on that later I promise

I will have to get back to you tomorrow with a whole argument but I would like to thank you for the stuff you sent

The "Testimony" of Mara Bar-Serapion, I will explain more but I can't find Jesus in there, he mentions Pythagoras and Socrates by name, why not this "Wise Man" it refers to?

Tacitus, wow, now that has got me thinking, my initial thoughts are directed the group Christiani, who were part of the Jewish Revolt in 66 to 73 which fits with Nero's reign of 54 to 68 but give me more time tomorrow

Right, I have to go home, catch you tomorrow,
Philip

1040. Open Debate: The Righteousness of Blasphemy

Comment #54827 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 4:08 am

Didn't Professor Dawkins quote on his Galapagos trip from bumper stickers saying "Blasphemy is a victimless crime!"

1041. Brainwashed children plead to die as martyrs in Red Mosque siege

Comment #54779 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 12:39 am

I think the article has provided some very interesting points, the first one being Musharraf's inability to control the religious militants, once he caved into them he let a lot of his power base drain away. A good example is when he wanted to reform the rape laws in Pakistan but had to back down once the religious put heaps of pressure on him.
He is also an ally of the West which makes his position even more difficult, again the religious putting a lot of pressure on him. I think this is one of the most important things about somewhere like Pakistan is that relations with the West need to remain on good terms, Pakistan has become a nuclear power which makes it a very dangerous enemy, especially with the fanatic extremists who given half the chance would go for the kill everything and everyone option. But at the same time Musharraf has to keep equilibrium or his rule is in jeopardy and I personally am very worried that his grip is being weakened as time goes on.

You would think that by using children as human shields The Red Mosque would have been vilified by the whole lot of them but religion again comes to their rescue and manages to somehow justify their actions. Very sad indeed

1042. Won't anyone stand up for God?

Comment #54774 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 12:12 am

Downunder, I am sorry you feel that a little bit of banter is unwelcome on this site, if you want intelligent discussion fine, ask anybody a serious question and they will answer it for you properly. I for one encourage it because the main reason above everything else in this life is to have a sense of humour and a laugh once in a while, surely even your god has a sense of humour?

1043. At a Theater Near You ...

Comment #54040 by Philip1978 on July 5, 2007 at 4:17 am

Hey Jonny, thanks for the links, that guy sounds like a legend, my hat off to them all for doing what they did, very brave men indeed.

Incidentally, I don't believe a kick in the nads from an outraged Scotsman failed to incapacitate that man, he must have been wearing a cricket box hence the tendons going kaput!

1044. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #54032 by Philip1978 on July 5, 2007 at 2:55 am

gimlibengloin,

"Well if evolution was true the Bible would be false."

I would like to take you up on a small challenge if that's ok?

Thing is I find the Bible to be incredibly false, mainly due to its numerous translations, revisions by a multitude of authors. I am convinced more and more that many of its stories have been plagiarised by its authors from other religions such as Buddhism, Judaism, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Pagan Religions. Its historically inaccurate, it has many contradictions and there is more evidence to show that most of its characters, especially Jesus, never existed.

How for example did Jesus get born twice? He was either born in about 6BC and about 4AD in, according to the authors, Nazareth. Nazareth has been dated by some of the best (and worst!) archaeologists in the world to be from around the 2nd Century onwards, so how can he have been born there? After all before the 2nd Century it was being used as a cemetery, hardly the right place to bring up a kid, esp the son of a deity!

I could go on for ages but back to my request for I am interested to see if you can tell me of any historical evidence, other than the Bible, for Jesus of Nazareth existing. I have read about many people called Jesus for whom there is evidence, the closest one to crucifixion was a chap called Jesus ben Stada but he was crucified in the early 2nd century in Lydda, 25 miles from Jerusalem. I have been reading a lot about this lately but I am curious to see if there is any evidence that I have not yet uncovered and would like your opinion on it as I am interested in this subject.

Be great to hear from you,
Philip

1045. When is a bishop like a suicide bomber?

Comment #53921 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 7:56 am

geckoman

Great post, I enjoyed reading that very interesting

I have suggested in the past that women could possibly be the key to solving Islamic oppression by not putting up with the treatment they are getting and actually advocate being treated as human beings rather than some slave with whom the men can do want they want to. Much easier said than done when you look at what has essentially become Stockholm Syndrome where the women simply put up with their lot and it becomes a way of life. But I am an optimist and I don't want to give up hope on that.

My big problem is that these guys do not have the first clue as how to treat women and women have very little idea as to what it is like to be treated nicely or fairly. The religion is so daft because, as you said they haven't a clue what they are doing and there is absolutely no positive interaction between them, the whole idea of romance is lost on them in a big way. I have heard that sometimes most men's first sexual experience in somewhere like Pakistan is either with their best male friend (yay for gay rights but this doesn't tend to have the right outcome) or an animal, mostly dogs, yeeesh!

I like your idea of night clubs and breweries, how do we go about slipping that one in the Koran?!

1046. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #53908 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 4:22 am

pewkatchoo,
I screamed aloud to the David Robertson
I said dont lie dont say you dont know
I say you'll pay for your mischief
In this world or the pub
Oh and then he fixed me with a freezing glance
And the hellfires raged in his eyes
He said do you wanna know the truth son
Ill tell you the truth
Your souls gonna burn in a lake of fire

1047. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #53890 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 1:51 am

darwin2 am sorry you have probably heard many times what I have typed below about the differences between religion and science but I feel they need to be made

How can you scientifically test the invisible and imaginary?

Religion and Science are complete polar opposites because Science needs evidence to work, Religion simply needs faith to work and faith is belief without evidence.

If your god is the Supreme Designer, who designed him/her/it? I would say human beings designed their gods and I have more evidence for that that you do for proof of your god.

I would also actually like to ask is how when Science explains something do you then need to add your god into the equation, it works just as well without him/her/it as it does with.

Be interesting to hear from you, I promise I am not wanting to chew your head off about this, I would like to know your views and opinions, cheers, Philip

1048. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #53881 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 12:20 am

Ah, I admire the Scottish for many a reason, I know that's mighty strange coming from an Englishman, but I am very proud of the way you handle yourselves in times of trouble. "This is Glasgow - we'll just set about you", if that is not enough to put the shits in the terrorists then there is always the promise of getting a Glasgow Kiss or banjoed, perfect, my hat off to you all!

1049. Floods are judgment on society, say bishops

Comment #53739 by Philip1978 on July 3, 2007 at 1:58 am

Steve99 I knew it was yours and your husband's fault! You naughty boys had better patch things up immediately...oh wait a minute...its my fault too cos I have no problem with it at all hehehehe! How long have you been married?

Saying that I think Wee Flea's god has cursed me with a slight case of food poisoning this morning. I guess it was when I quoted Deuteronomy in my last post to him and now I have a plague upon my stomach!!

Seriously, my deepest condolences to those who have lost people in these awful floods, the last thing they need is some prat in a fancy dress costume telling them that their loved ones are dead because of His bigotry. Possibly you don't need me making jokes like the above as well, but my humour is out of disgust for such a horrible and unjustified set of comments.

Philip

1050. God Hates the World

Comment #53003 by Philip1978 on June 29, 2007 at 1:40 am

David, happy holidays, hope the weather is better than England right now!

I don't think I explained myself properly so here goes

I don't think anyone on this site is evil, not even you, if this was politics I think I could get a fair few people on this site to disagree with me and the chairs would probably start flying! Its the discussion that I think brings out people's passions. Have you ever been to an England Scotland rugby match? I went to one in Twickenham just before we won the world cup, it was amazing (Ok so England won and I am being somewhat biassed here hehe!) I heard in the crowd some highly suggestible places as to where the English could park their chariot and I do believe I heard some very posh voice bark back asking them to go forth and multiply! I saw who it was and throughout the match they had the most wonderful slanging match, but as I was walking out at the end of the game I saw these people at the bar drinking a pint and laughing. Now I am convinced the discussions on here are more to do with passions and frustrations with the differences in our opinions. It just so happens we are chatting about religion.

The other problem is that we are reading off a computer screen, now sometimes I can be chatting to friends on msn or texting and the way I have come across sometimes is completely different to the meaning I wanted to convey. Some people can take offence sometimes for the wrong reasons, you can find a post back somewhere about one of the articles on circumcision where I flew off the handle at someone. I had to apologise when I discovered his post had been sarcasm and not the literal truth. I think you can therefore expect that when you type a few things on here because you hold religious views that we don't, we will respond in kind or unkindly as the case may be. If I went on a religious site as you have come to an atheist site I can bet a lot of money some people will take great delight in quoting their sacred book and telling me how this sinner will suffer eternal torment for not adhering to their doctrines. I think the big difference on this site is that its passionate discussion, I wish nothing bad to ever happen to you, I simply don't agree with you that there is a god. So if we are going to discuss something like religion expect a few verbal handbags once in a while.

Billy is evil? As I see it he doesn't hate you, he, like me, simply cannot comprehend what you believe in and also some of the things you have said in your posts. Your religion is based on a book which I cannot understand, its cruelty and absolute bile towards unbelievers is horrible. For example, the viciousness of the Old Testament, Deuteronomy is simply awful. 58: If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
59: Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

You have to admit that's worse than being told to fuck off, that above tells me the LORD THY GOD actually takes pleasure in the knowledge that if you don't agree, here comes the suffering. Of course I am going to object to this, I don't accept it, I think its evil! Nobody on here has wished plagues or death upon you as far as I know, just a few verbal handbags, most of which are sarcastic and you shouldn't take it to heart.

"No – I don't get up in the morning and think – does God want me to have a cappuccino or an expresso today. My belief in God underlies my life but does not take away from my humanity – rather I would argue it enhances it."

Oops, I think I got this one wrong, I didn't mean the cappuccino decision, it was the more the enhancing bit that I was, very badly, referring to. I think just because I am an Atheist it is not something I use to enhance my life, I use my inane bouncing optimistic stupidity for that!! I would say you don't need your god to still feel enhanced, just an opinion but I think a valid one (though the right espresso can do wonders after a tough night!!)

My moral judgement does not include a god, if I have rejected any notion of god how can he influence my decisions?

John Keats, Shakespeare, Douglas Adams,Sam Harris, Professor Dawkins, Marilyn Manson, Billy, _J_, Quetz, Yorker, Manfred, Rachel, Logicel, Logicel's husband's trousers, Veronique, Rtambree, MIND REBEL, Drbenway, Corylus,scottishgeologist ,alovrin, Donald, epeeist, Fedler,Lauregon, Coel, pewkatchoo ,CJ22, BAEOZ, steve99, steveroot, LeeC, Richard Maynard, Russell Blackford, Brian Coughlan (and others who I will add when I edit this, I apologise in advance and if the spellings wrong, will correct it I promise!) my friends, my family, the beautiful women I have had the honour of being with, my life, my work, to name a few have greatly influenced my life in one way or another. (unless this is the matrix but I will leave the philosophy to others on this site) My point is that if I started relying on them as you do to your god I think a few might start to worry (though saying that Billy, Quetz and Logicel seem to have accepted worship without any fuss!hehehe) They all provide me with some of my intellectual justifications in one way or another but my point is that at any time I could disagree with them and the same goes for everyone else.

Right, rant over, but I will leave you with this, from the evidence in the bible, who is allowed to disagree with that god and not suffer for it?

Have a lovely holiday,
Cheers!
Philip