1151. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172230 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 11:14 am

will young,




I don't understand the argument "Why were the boys removed?"

Well do you want young boys learning to treat women as possessions and sex objects? Do you want them to view women 36 years younger than them as potential mates? These boys are being socialized into the same sick system.

1152. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172210 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 10:49 am

MaxD,



It is easier to scare people than to reason with them.



In the first Gulf War there was a Kuwaiti girl who "worked as a nurse in a hospital". She claimed Iraqi soldiers were raping nurses and ripping babies from incubators. She gave this testimony in the Senate. The vote was 52-47 in favor of invasion. 6 Senators cited this testimony as the reason they voted for the invasion.

It turned out the "girl" was the daughter of a Kuwaiti diplomat and was not in any hospital working, ever. She had lied. A PR firm had been hired by the Kuwaiti royal family in order to sell the invasion in the US. 224 American servicemen lost their lives.

1153. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172202 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 10:39 am

MaxD,




Thanks. I am starting to work out with two other guys, one of which was a UFC fighter. I managed 350 on the bench just yesterday. My goal is 400 in the next 2 months. I think it is doable.

The issue is don't go for a bunch of reps. Work your way up to your max. Like I do the following:

225x10
275x3
295x2
365x1
245x8

So you want to go past your max and do assisted reps. If you don't have a good spotter it won't work well. But once you are past your max the spotter can let you do just enough to get the bar up.

I was stuck before. But I worked hard, I was about 225, and after 6 months I was almost 260 (that is how much I weighed). It was unreal gains. Nutrition nutrition nutrition.

But send me your workout I would love to see it. For when I switch up my workout.

1154. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172197 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 10:32 am

ZekeCDN,



Re-reading your posts was also helpful. I am happy to discuss the political and human aspects of sanctions.

I get things so jumbled in my head (sever ADD), I have hacked and slashed the wrong people more the once. I need a standard apology I can copy and paste...

1155. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172188 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 10:21 am

MaxD,



I am not against the war, per se. I am for finally doing justice with regards to Iraq. I was against an invasion without first attempting other options. I have listed those in detail numerous times. What constitutes justice now is remaining in Iraq until the Iraqis are able to assert some self determination. I don't know how long that will be. But what people fail to realize is Iraq will be a training ground for terrorists if the US leaves and a proxy war ensues. The very Sunni groups that will send jihadists to Iraq to fight the infidel Shi'a are the same that will then take these battle hardened fanatics and turn them against western interests.

Unlike some who seems to have been for the war, and now for leaving. I find this position curious.

Ideally we would have let the Iraqis rise up in 1991 and overthrow Saddam and allow them self determination, but keeping Saddam in power was of more interest to the US.

So to say I am anti-war is unfair. I am against lies. The lies that led to Gulf War One and the ones that led to this invasion. That sours people on what may turn out to be a noble cause.

Apparently that makes me a self flagellating liberal.

1156. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172180 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 10:11 am

MaxD,




You are right. I read ZekeCDN's post after reading another unpleasant post directed at me. Sometimes I go away for a night and there are about 4 posts that are addressed to me, I try to respond and keep them straight. I read Zeke's post but imposed a tone from another post.


I am trying to keep it straight.


But that being said. My issue with Zeke's position (and many others' here) along with the linked article is when you bring up an issue, let's say in the following manner, then you get such a line of argumentation:


1) The US imposed Saddam on Iraq:
-Rejoinder: Yes, but that was a long time ago

2) The US sold out the rebels who would have overthrown Saddam.
Rejoinder: Yes but that was 17 years ago.

3) The Sanctions were unfair to the Iraqi population.
-Rejoinder: Saddam's fault (see points one and two to see absurdity)


It is all about saying "Yeah that's in the past". How many crimes must we witness slide into the past before we stop fucking up? How many. And now Fanusi advocates leaving Iraq to a genocidal proxy war, he may not have the courage to say "We should slaughter the Muslims", but he has done so subtley in advocating such a policy.

The attitude to Iraq is accurately summed up by Colin Powell in Gulf War One. He was asked:

Reporter: "Do we have a number on Iraqi civilian casualties?"
Powell: "That isn't a number I am terribly interested in."


So now all of a sudden people care? The very same people that a few years ago said they didn't care? I smell something funny.


*EDIT* Zeke, apologies for confusing your tone with someone else's. Like I said, these things posts pile up when I finally wrench myself from the computer and spend an evening doing something else.

1157. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172170 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 9:42 am

Kyrie,

It wasn't the religeous weilding the fanatical power in this case.

1158. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172167 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 9:40 am

Cairnarvon,

Fun fact: most people here will also condemn sexism in the West, and crimes against humanity when they're committed by "our side", and their existence does not absolve everyone else from blame for their own actions.

So, the fact our own civilisations aren't perfect means we aren't allowed to point out injustices in others?

1159. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172153 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 9:18 am

Fanusi,




To be honest, when the sanctions prohibit shipments of baby food, that is deliberately killing children.

The US had ample opportunity to have Saddam overthrown immediately after the first Gulf War. The administration chose not to give Shi'a rebels access to captured Iraqi arms, and chose to allow Saddam to operate helicopter gunships in the areas other wise listed as "no fly".

This is almost apples and oranges when compared to someone murdering his daughter. No one is justifying this. I asked you to provide such a citation where someone said this, it turns out my other assessment (liar) was more accurate. It was indeed a fabrication. A solid argument requires no falsification of facts.

The moral judgement is simple. Killing your daughter for befriending a British soldier is wrong. Denying baby food to a starving populace is wrong. Both of these are moral judgements and I issue condemnation on both fronts.

So now that you cannot accuse me self flaggelation, do you have any argument at all? Oh Hitchens...


Well the US could have assassinated Saddam without too much difficulty and destroyed the regime. It chose not to. It chose to punish the populace for the actions of an unelected leader, who was imposed on them by the US. Answer the following:


1) Didn't the US impose Saddam on the Iraqis
2) Didn't the US refuse to aid anti-Saddam forces after Gulf War One.
3) Didn't the US maintain sanctions that targeted the most innocent people.


All of these are manifest. There is little left to argue. We agree that killing your daughter is wrong (we can go into the 1400 year old history of Muslim honor killings, although it would be a bunch of head nodding and "I agree"). We agree that moral condemnation should be issued when wrongs occur. The only difference seems to be that you accept the deliberate starvation of children as "acceptable" and I do not.

1160. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172139 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 9:02 am

will young,





You are one of those nice idealists that think people read anything before opening their mouths. You will soon be disabused of any such notions.

I am honestly shocked to find someone here defending a sect of kiddie raping religious fundamentalists. But the internet is a wonderful place.

1161. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172126 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 8:53 am

Titchfield,




Actually it goes to:


1) Wars
2) More weapons for wars
3) Ridiculous sums of money to ridiculous countries
4) Pork barrell
5) Useless government programs
6) Subsidizing the balance of expenditure which is given to the wealthiest portion of our society in tax cuts, designed specifically for them.

Among others.


Our national debt is soaring and the social welfare programs will soon be unavailable for those who are currently paying for them. By the time I am old enough it will be "go it alone" for retirement and health and medical needs.

1162. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172121 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 8:49 am

Fanusi,

I am unsurprised at the fact that discussion of this evil has turned into a series of arguments about how horrid the West has been, and therefore we should accept the murder of teenage girls, and the sale of four-year olds into sexual bondage. Or something like that.

1163. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172116 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 8:45 am

Who gave child protective services (people who couldn't pass the psyche evaluations to become police officers or school tyrants, (I mean teachers) carte blanche to make up the law as they go along?

1164. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172041 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 7:16 am

Kyrie,




I am all for limiting the power of the state. However in such a situation as the Texas case, I think they made the right move.

In the history of the United States, situations where religious fanatics are holed up in a remote compound don't tend to end well.

There was also an issue of corporal punishment (extreme) being used and the mothers doing nothing to stop it. Furthermore the mothers were given the opportunity to stay with the children when they were removed, but they did not excercise this right.

And it is the job of the state to determine a legal marrying age and enforce it equally. Petitions to change this should be heard, but simply ignoring the laws of the state which have been passed by elected representatives, should not be tolerated.

1165. Is religion a threat to rationality and science?

Comment #172029 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 6:58 am

seeker_of_truth,




No one is denying the accomplishments of religious scientists. Many times discoveries don't contradict religious precept simply because the bible has very little to say on micro-biology or astro-physics.

However, modern science is growing more incompatible with religion. On a moral basis, and on a reason basis. We are learning more about the history of our planet and this is changing religious belief. How much of the Bible which was once literal is now metaphorical?

You don't seem to see how much religious belief has been widdled away by science. Doctrine now is virtually unrecognizeable if viewed from a 10th Century Christian lense.

1166. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #172025 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 6:53 am

I like Kardashovel.



The guy is interesting.

1167. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172009 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 6:06 am

irate,



Soitanly!


I have been saying this for some time.


It is tax time here in the US. I looked at my taxes, I pay 4 times as much to the US federal govt. than I do to the State of California. Yet all my benefits are from the state. I get nothing from the federal government. Where the hell does my money go?

1168. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172006 by al-rawandi on April 29, 2008 at 5:58 am

ZekeCDN,



The embargo targeted the innocent. Shipments of baby food were blocked. Think about that for a second.... The sanctions were against a populace who had Saddam forced upon them by whom? The US government, that's who. So the US forces an unelected dictator on a population, then the US starves them to death to supposedly remove this person.

Your argument is fundamentally immoral. What should Iraqis have done to stop the sanctions? They were sold out after Gulf War One trying to overthrow Saddam. The US allowed him to use helicopter gunships to put down any revolts to remove him. Then the US sanctioned the people. The fact that they refused shipments of baby food, only proves it was genocide.

Your argument is not only immoral it is way underdeveloped, and pathetic.


Christopher Davis,


I don't disagree with your argument with regards to the Pashtun regions. A good friend of mine is Afghan, he works in both the US and Afghanistan for the Afghan govt. He has some stories about the sadness that is the Afghan populace that truly shocked me.



Headcold,



Your arguments aren't really worth much discussion. Japan was a united front. The war effort was nationwide and concerted. No such situation exists now. Your calls for all out genocide, even if simply "emotional" are a waste of bandwidth.



njwong,


She went back and edited the post to change its meaning once I confronted her. She then lied about editing it, and I honestly believed I had misread it, until someone noticed it had been substantively changed.

So when another atheist (this isn't some sort of brotherhood) flies into a racist rant, then changes the post once called on it, then lies to everyone about it, I will say something. See post # 63 for a little evidence on the matter. She lied, there is no other way to interpret this:


"I didn't edit my post"


When she had in fact edited her post. How else should that be interpreted? She edited the post either to reflect her actual thought or because she realized what she had really said. I cannot trust her description of this because she outright lied about the editing in the first place. Sorry. Piss off.

1169. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171606 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:52 pm

I have to go workout.



Enough of this crazyness.

1170. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171604 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:46 pm

Bunny,

I should not have said that I did not edit the post that was dishonest and I apologise but the original post was not racist the edit did not change the meaning and the edit occured before your accusations of racism

1171. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171601 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:43 pm

beelzebub,

This is NOT a religious issue, but one of ignorance and fear. Improve their lives, education and security, and you might just help reduce or even eliminate this senseless slaughter!

1172. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171598 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:40 pm

Mitchell,





It was showing my sensitivity to the serious problem that exists in the Muslim world.

I think we may agree here. I do apologize if my approach seemed wild.

1173. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171592 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:38 pm

bunny,





You used Iraq in a general sense. Your entire post was a generalization, how else could it be interpreted. Post hoc editing may well be due to changing feelings, how should I know that is not the case.


Either way you lied. That is a dent in your credibility.

1174. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171590 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:36 pm

JayLee,





I don't much care for someone's gender, either way. I try to read the words next to the picture. I have defended the women on this site who have been subjected to abuse from men. See the Richard Morgan fiasco.

I appreciate your comments. If a man is threatened by a woman, he should take pause.

1175. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171587 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Bunny,





In all honesty, I have said some nasty stuff here, stuff I didn't really mean and shouldn't have said. I simply said, when confronted "That was stupid, shouldn't have said it." People can respect that, I can respect that.


You lied. That looks worse. And I cannot respect that.

1176. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171585 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Bunny,




So you did edit the post. The meanings were changed because you made it more specific. You did so without note, and then told me you did not edit it.

Post # 64 you say:

I did not edit the post.

the meaning was not changed

1177. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171576 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:26 pm

Women are merely property and sex slaves to islam, who can be beaten, raped, and murdered legally. To say they are second class citizens would be a lie, they aren't citizens at all. They aren't considered people.

but to think of whole cultures where it is perfectly fine to do...it is not something I can even begin to make sense of...

These are the people we let become members of a group dedicated to human rights, people that don't consider half the human species to qualify.

1178. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171572 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:19 pm

bunny,




The question I asked was if you went back and edited the original post I commented on without noting you did so, or if I just completely misread the whole post (which is possible). That was the question.

If the latter, I said I would apologize.

1179. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171569 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:16 pm

akado,





I don't disagree with that post. I don't see the problem. I just said we should be very specific, and we should recognize that there are decent people in Iraq trying to lead decent lives, even if a minority. Take the man's wife. She left him and began working to solve the problem. Applause for her.


headcold,

Al-rawandi, I'll stop thinking that the entire country should be nuked when everyone in the neighborhood of that murderer drags him out into the street and uses him as an example to show that honor killings are never ever permitted.

I don't actually think we should nuke the place. I use it purposefully as a wake-up generalization to say that we shouldn't be invading Iraq to remove an evil dictator. We should bomb them up to the 18th century, and then we'll educate them up to the 21st.

My comments reflect my emotional outrage and my gut feelings. When it comes times to act on something, I'll remove my emotions and think logically. Until then, allow me be as angry and unsympathetic as I want at the fact that these cavemen, their cavemen neighbors, and the cavemen countries next door to them are just dandy with strangling daughters.

1180. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171567 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Pretending that they can be excused for such actions, and don't require meeting the moral standards set by the free world, because they are another race, it itself racist. Bring race into it at all, when it is clearly a non-issue and was not alluded to by anyone, is itself racist.

1181. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171559 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:07 pm

Yes, if you did not edit the post, I will apologize and remove my posts if you so wish.

1182. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171555 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:03 pm

akado,






I try to push people on their ideas, yes. Are you going to report me?

1183. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171554 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 3:01 pm

phil rimmer,





That is not what I recall reading. I should have block quoted, then I could be sure. Oh well, we wait for bunny to let us know if she edited the post to make it less general, or if I simply misread it.

1184. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171552 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:58 pm

Podaar,



I do know plenty of Muslims who speak about other Muslims they know limiting their wives.

Part of the problem in judging is that the Saudis I know, live in Saudi Arabia. There are state laws that restrict women. However, most of them send the educated ones (which are in my circle) send their daughters for western education.

Of course there is a double standard when it comes to dating, which is largely due to Arab culture. And it doesn't take much insight (maybe for some posters here it does) to realize that Islam is a religionized form of Arab ethos.

Women get it rough in the Muslim world, no doubt. But when a lot of those people are relocated to the west and educated, it generally molifies the problem.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali lied about her situation several times in regards to her arrival in Europe, arranged marriage, and several other things as well. I wouldn't doubt her stories unless I had some evidence she lied there too. Somalia is one of the worst places for women. As is the Congo, and several other non-Muslim African countries.

So I am not arguing that Islam DOESN'T teach violence or oppression of women, it clearly does. What I am saying is racist generalizations won't be much better.

1185. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171546 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:52 pm

Bunny,




I was attempting to counteract your wild generalizations of Iraqis.


I didn't deny there was a problem... Perhaps you may have chanced upon my comment about the abuse of women being sanctioned in the cannonical texts themselves. And if you had been around in other discussions you would have seen my critique of everything foul and odious about Islam and many Muslims.

Righteous anger... There is a dangerous term. You are welcome to be mad, I find this disgusting as well. I don't think it fair to shoot off generalizations about Iraq in the same breath as "Filthy" and "Sub human".

I never excused poor treatment of women anywhere. Someone else had said that the west was "so much better". Which is true, but doesn't mean that women in the west don't get a tough time too.

But your post absolutely speaks for itself. It is a Christopher Hitchens "simply underline" moment.

1186. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171539 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:42 pm

MItchell,







So what should we do? You skipped that.

And if I was caught in a racist rant, I too would attempt to flip it around on my accuser. Your anger in response well exceeded the tone of my original post. Why so angry if I am simply wrong? Go back to your cartoons.

1187. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171535 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Cairnarvorn,




Well then you can drop the superiority act. Women get shit in every culture, America and UK included. True they live better, without a doubt, but what is true is that women are subjected to abuse in the west. It is simply justified on different grounds.

I don't know a Muslim who hits his wife. Not one. That includes many Saudis, Kuwaitis, Emirates, and others... In their home countries.

1188. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171529 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:37 pm

bunny,




You didn't mention anyone in particular. You only ever mentioned Iraq in a general sense. Thus your racist outburst must be read in the same sense.

Although you may be an angy feminist, you also happen to be spewing racist nonsense. So don't try to back track now. Go post on some other site, you are only providing fodder for the theists that seek to paint atheists as Nazis and racists.

1189. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171519 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:31 pm

CHILDREN! ANIMALS! SUB HUMANS! HUMAN FILTH!

1190. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171509 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:27 pm

Steve,




There is one more....


I don't know if it is appropriate for public viewing.

1191. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171506 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:26 pm

Mitchell,




Your entire post is a generalized, racist rant... "These people". Most Muslims in the world treat their wives just fine. And many women enjoy good lives.

There were 47 honor killings in a city with a population of 1.7 million. Take a comparable US city and how many women are murdered by their husbands. Quite a few.

No one will debate the language of the verses on women, that is manifest, but to wield such a broad brush in your angry rant is no use either.

What do you propose we do, since "sitting by" digusts you?

1192. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171480 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 2:12 pm

headcold,




Turn the country into a field of glass. So instead of the occasional honor killing, everyone will be dead.


Not much better.

1193. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171464 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:56 pm

believerb2,





No one said Aliens created the earth.


What was said, is that is the only plausible form of ID at this point.

You need to brush up on your English.

1194. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171448 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:48 pm

Elli,





From my somewhat limited knowledge of all semitic languages (limited meaning limited to one, and a great deal of guessing on the others), the "royal we" seems to be somewhat common. However this could have been made post hoc, to reconcile the polytheistic tendencies.

1195. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171444 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Frankus,







No further comment. Other that you seem to be an astute fellow.

1196. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171437 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Steve,




Kirk did womanize some aliens. He was the great space pimp.


"I... Can't undo... my space... trousers"
"Kirk to Spock... I am leaving a sock... on the door."
"Mr. Scott... If the Bridge is a-rockin'... Don't come a... knocking."

1197. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171422 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:33 pm

epeeist,





To be honest, I invented the Stalinicon. Anna will confirm this. If not she is a cheating plagarist.

There are plenty of secrets to go around anyhow.

1198. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171418 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:32 pm

Steve,






Kirk kissed Uhura?

Can I still lodge a complaint, or is there a statute of limitations.

1199. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171414 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Frankus,





Are you insinuating that Anna and I have something going on.... outside of RD.net? I dropped out before I got to middle school, so I am no help there.

1200. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171408 by al-rawandi on April 28, 2008 at 1:27 pm

epeeist,





The Stalin face is the best of emoticons. It can go either way. Stoic is the best.