1201. The Sacrifice of Reason

Comment #67843 by Philip1978 on September 5, 2007 at 1:47 am

Thor's Trousers! Some amazing conversations here, I would like to add my own rant for the sheer hell of it.

I love the idea that teenagers still have the ability to shock and disgust people older than them. I remember the day I knew I was getting older was when I was working in a dept store and I heard some irksome little toe rag swear at his mother for not buying him something. My first reaction was to turn around and yell "DONT YOU DARE SPEAK TO YOUR MOTHER LIKE THAT!"

My teenage years were spent listening to heavy metal (Mum hated Guns and Roses!), smoking cigarettes (only at the weekends!)being quite grumpy and quiet and also the obligatory "wrong sort of crowd" that were my very good friends! I remember at the time having some sort of idea that I would be ok, I couldn't be bothered with the drugs, I knew I was not tough enough for fighting so I steered away from it and made friends with the rugby crowd! Sometimes I did mouth back at authority or offended people by some of my actions but I thought I knew where the limits were being the typical teenager. Would I change things? I would like to go back and kick myself up the arse for smoking and possibly urge myself to get fitter!


V
I loved that post from your brother and yes I think he should have added "Discuss" at the bottom! I like his questioning as to whether its an actual Sacrifice or not. I would still claim it is, Jesus was offed by order of his dad to be able to die for the sins of man ( and you naughty ladies who like apples too much!)It is exactly the same as sacrificing the virgins so the sun comes up in the morning. If Jesus isnt killed, then how are the sins going to be forgiven?

Personally I am convinced Jesus never existed but I do think the story about him is essentially a sacrificial suicide mission that gives those that believe in that religion something to hang their hopes on. Hence reason is being sacrificed for faith, at least I hope that's what I got from this article, in order for faith to continue reason has to killed in some elaborate manner to make it work.

But, please pass on a cup of Quetz's finest to your good brother, I think he has an enormously good point and I am probably wiffling here! Must be the teenage mind I still carry around with me!!

Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeers
Philip

1202. India to charge writer Nasreen with 'hurting Muslim feelings'

Comment #67824 by Philip1978 on September 5, 2007 at 12:30 am

Jonathon

Yikes, we are both right, I just checked on http://www.barghouti.com/islam/meaning.html


"Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law."

That is nasty!

1203. Like any half-decent atheist, I'm fond of a bit of religion

Comment #67819 by Philip1978 on September 5, 2007 at 12:11 am

Richard Morgan

"Apparently lots of people in Iraq "miss" Saddam "

Maybe they should have recalibrated their gun sights and checked the humidity and wind? arf arf! (Sorry poor joke, but I am in that sort of mood this morning!)

I dont like this article, from what I gather he can't get his head around Professor Dawkins or Polly Toynbee just because their arguments are too good???
I rather get the feeling he hasnt quite got over his agnosticism yet, there is still that tiny part of him that HAS to believe in something. I also get a hint of "Dawkins et all, stop being such a bunch of know-it-alls" which I find a bit grating. If his only fault is with Atheists speaking out against religion in such a precise and straight forward manner, so be it!

Possibly I am being too rough with the chap, I don't know what belief is other than my understanding from a load of books I have read and the people who I ask about it. I liked Billy Sands's description of it being Mental Slavery, but I still cannot fully grasp belief having never had any.

Hey ho, more Tea I think, that last cuppa was incredible!

Philip

1204. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #67660 by Philip1978 on September 4, 2007 at 8:04 am

Lee,

Quetz probably prodded Galileo into checking out the baths first, what if there had been a smudge on the lens or something? OK its not quite a double blind test (possibly a CC or DD test!) or anything but his eyes needed to see the right thing!

I also want to know what all this business with (Super Massive) black holes (I love Muse!), I take it God was fed up like with stuff in space and the flood and put all the naughty decadent stuff in the black holes? No rainbows I see, just black!

I am not one to question Quetz's dealings with the universe, he is fair in His judgements and I trust His decisions! He has Billy working on his amazing creations and He keeps the Tea magnificent! Plus anyone can communicate with him, he even has Mark talking to him! (I hope your God is not too offended) I hope your trip was a lot of fun by the way, any stories or good pubs? hehehe1

Rock on oh Mighty Quetz!

Philip

1205. India to charge writer Nasreen with 'hurting Muslim feelings'

Comment #67611 by Philip1978 on September 4, 2007 at 2:28 am

Quetz,
Damn, I thought I was onto to something there, back to the drawing board!

Vaal, I'd love it if someone did make such a film just to see the look on their faces! Call it the Life of Geoff or something and then claim afterwards that Mohammed was not portrayed in it anywhere!

I do hope this brave woman is going to be ok, I think she is doing such an amazing thing in standing up to Islam, I have always thought women should stand up to the barbarism and chauvinism that this religion encourages because I see it as one of the ways of bringing Islam down a few notches. I know its a fools hope but I it still makes sense to me

Philip

1206. What do these atheists understand of religion?

Comment #67603 by Philip1978 on September 4, 2007 at 1:40 am

Hooray!

1207. India to charge writer Nasreen with 'hurting Muslim feelings'

Comment #67602 by Philip1978 on September 4, 2007 at 1:36 am

I signed the petition and left a comment questioning the need to behead those who disagree with others and then came up with a rather odd thought.

Islam means peace yes? These fundamentalist monkeys scream rant and yell that its a religion of peace till they are nice shade of puce. I finally understand what the peace is referring to- Infidels. They want peace by eradication of anything that disagrees with their world view. Once the Infidels are off the planet, yippie its peace time! Hows that for a theory?

Philip

1208. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #67358 by Philip1978 on September 3, 2007 at 5:46 am

Yeeesh!

I remember reading Bill Bryson's History of Nearly Everything and remember feeling soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo small yet at the same time bloomin glad that I got the opportunity to be this particular Philip!!

In a way I am glad we still have 95% still to go, gives mankind something useful to do!!

Sorry to hear you are not well Lee, keep with the Whiskey, its good for you!


Quetz said
Either way, it's a damn long way to go for some water ice and some complex carbons.

Yes, I could go to my freezer for that when its Pimms O Clock!

I think God should be quaking in his shiny robes to be honest, the more we know the less room he has to manoeuvre. But you are right, FAITH is the only place he can exist, Tea is your realm, tell him to bugger off if he starts mucking around in there!

Philip

1209. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #67332 by Philip1978 on September 3, 2007 at 4:36 am

Here is one thing that puzzles me

Humans go around thinking about how things work- physics, chemistry, biology all have their own laws and theories. These laws are being refined but on the whole tend to explain a few things here and there. Then God goes around breaking some of these laws to get things done, one of them being that he exists.

Now here's where I really go cross eyed, man is made in God's own image, yes? no? maybe? If so would that mean he should have the same grasp of the above laws? I mean, surely if things are created from these laws- you know the right gases exploding or right particles bashing together etc-what is God made out of? All things are made of something according to the above laws but God seems to not be made of these things...I am so confused!!

I think I am rambling here but I think I might be basically asking is why did God make it so bloody complicated to find him? Does He enjoy the mystery or complexity of it? But I have been told by many that He just Is that which is beyond the human mind, that extra IT that is beyond the reach of measurement etc. Why would a god need to do that when everything else arrived without such complexity?

Please help, this is weirding me out!

More TEA!!!!!!!!!!

Philip

1210. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #67321 by Philip1978 on September 3, 2007 at 3:59 am

Honestly, I'll bet BOOBA turned up, stuck a pencil behind his ear, sharp intake of breath and said "Thats gonna cost ya guv!". I'll bet he stuck his brush in the sun a few times and blotted it out, I know you are powerful Quetz but doing the sun again must have been a bugger!

Lee thanks for that look at the universe, I have read a few books about how mind bogglingly gigantically hhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooowge this universe is! I just dont like the idea of God taking pot-shots with asteroids all the time, those buggers are getting closer each time!

the_assayer
brilliant work there, very interesting read, I liked that a lot. But just make sure BOOBA isnt on your top list, Sea Urchins are not to prayed to!

Praise Quetz!

Philip

1211. What do these atheists understand of religion?

Comment #67264 by Philip1978 on September 3, 2007 at 1:42 am

Wow, what an article!

"elegant riposte" from Cornwell?

Professor Dawkins, from what I have read of your replies on another thread concerning John Cornwall, oops, sorry, Cornwell, I get the feeling you were not elegantly riposted enough!! Plus I have yet to see you rant properly in full fundamentalist style to finally win me over to your religion and One True Path!!

This article is preposterous and full of abysmal arguments ranging from militancy to the "look at how Stalin acted and he didn't believe in god" rantings. If only the author would see it is the God Quetz they should be following, not some fictitious invisible IT who inspires people to paint ceilings!


Oh well, more Tea I think,

Philip Priestley

1212. Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue on Mother Teresa

Comment #66534 by Philip1978 on August 30, 2007 at 10:33 am

Ace Rimmer
Are you suggesting he takes on the Nottingham Twang? (Robin hood accent! See Eddie Izzard for further details!)

I dont think he did lose on that one, Donahue was positively frantic, all that Irishman stuff was embarrassing. As Hitchens pointed out, his facts are there and they have been proved, Donahue was flustered and grasping at straws. Poor work against a debater like Hitchens who remained calm and composed

By the way, should I smoke you a Kipper for breakfast? hehehhe I love Red Dwarf! (English Comedy for those who dont know, very funny!)
Cheers,
Philip

1213. The importance of doubt

Comment #66532 by Philip1978 on August 30, 2007 at 10:23 am

jthacker48

Congratulations on your decision, I have heard stories of how difficult it is to give up a faith, I have heard a lot from people here on this site and I understand its not the easiest choice to make. Would it be ok if I asked what exactly was it that finally convinced you to make your decision?


Fides, I am sorry you feel that way

Cheers, Philip

1214. Anger over 'blasphemous' balls

Comment #66515 by Philip1978 on August 30, 2007 at 7:31 am

Russell's Teapot, I understand with what you say but I think I am with pewkatchoo on this one in the sense that these guys are quite happy to froth about anything if it serves their purpose of making unbelievers look bad.

Perhaps a little thought should have gone into it, but I would imagine the US Military simply wanted the kids playing football to relieve them of the horrible environment they have to face everyday. Flags should be flags and its the mad adults fault that the kids have to see hatred spring out of a kind gesture.

Philip

1215. Another view

Comment #66419 by Philip1978 on August 30, 2007 at 1:11 am

Major Bloodnok, may I call you Dennis?

Do you think that 12 Stranded DNA can combat Scraaadg or prevent storm damage on the knees? (Sorry, I had to get that out my system, massive Goons fan!)
Back to the subject!

I am still doing all I can to convince my mother to stop administering lavender oil for all cuts and bruises. I am convinced the stuff just stinks and does nothing that normal healing couldn't accomplish. Is there any basis to her claims or am I right in thinking the stuff simply whiffs?

Philip

1216. There is no God and Dawkins is his Prophet

Comment #66413 by Philip1978 on August 30, 2007 at 12:46 am

At first I was interested in what this guy was saying, as HappyPrimate pointed out, he does actually look like he has read the book rather than skimmed over it like many others who criticised it.
I even for a small 5th of a millisecond thought he would actually have some worthwhile things to criticise about the book (I love the God Delusion but I like to hear about what others think about it as well). I apologise to you all for indulging in such madness for such a long period of time but I am human after all!!

I love the way it mostly comes down to "Well, sorry, you don't know who or what my god is, he is above your petty amazing intellectual discussions and reasoning, he is more than that...what ever that actually is!"

Oh dear!
Philip

1217. Another view

Comment #66182 by Philip1978 on August 29, 2007 at 7:40 am

As far as I know water is a great cure for thirst, putting a mind bogglingly minute scintilla of gunk in it does not mean it cures all ills. I am sure Professor Dawkins is actually quite happy in being able to inform people of the stupidity that is "Alternative" medicine and good on him for doing it!

Philip

1218. Enemies of Reason

Comment #66158 by Philip1978 on August 29, 2007 at 5:18 am

J,Martin

I think eradicating all religion to the same mythical status as the Norse or Greek gods is the right way forward and it would make the world a better place. Sure, it would never be perfect but at least people would use some form of reasoning that did not involve invoking some form of invisible "it" to back up their words and actions. It is perpetuating a lie if religion or the supernatural is allowed to continue as it is. I don't have all the answers, but I can't see how allowing nonsensical mental slavery to carry on is going to be beneficial.

I don't think anyone here is invoking the total abolition and eradication of religion, not at all. As Professor Dawkins has said, stuff like Shakespeare would be incomprehensible unless you had knowledge of or access to the Bible. What should be eradicated is this illusion that gives religion and superstition its authority, for there is no good reason for people to devote their lives to believe in it all, its a waste of time

I hope that helps,
Philip

1219. 'Jesus loves you' email

Comment #66151 by Philip1978 on August 29, 2007 at 4:16 am

I would love to go to the convention but sadly having no money seems to be a problem for the Airline and hotel companies! Unless I "borrow" my boss's credit card, I wonder if he will mind?...

1220. Fallen Pastor Seeks Aid to Pursue Studies

Comment #66149 by Philip1978 on August 29, 2007 at 4:04 am

Corylus

I shudder with horror when thinking about what he has already done to people, I completely concur with you, when dealing with emotionally difficult problems the last thing you need is for someone who does not understand the situation.

Below is a link to something that I advise caution reading, its so sad but the story behind it is that this boy killed himself because of his homosexuality. His mother was too religious to understand him, almost basically telling him not be gay, as if he could simply switch it off. The link is to a forum she wrote to, the advice given to her is probably similar to what Haggard would offer and it is dangerous.

http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?p=43639#43639

The religious should never ever offer support in cases like this, they have not got a clue and it makes me sick. Despicable individual? Much much worse in my opinion

Philip

1221. Fallen Pastor Seeks Aid to Pursue Studies

Comment #66126 by Philip1978 on August 29, 2007 at 1:19 am

joshuaslocum
Thanks for that, very interesting, I do hope they do not find a loophole somewhere so that he could actually do this, I find it sickening beyond doubt that he could even contemplate it.

I suppose that being very high up in such an organisation that he would simply EXPECT to have people do this for him. I love the way he called Professor Dawkins arrogant and yet he has the nerve to go around expecting people to fund his return to "normal" life. I completely agree with pantsandboots , why counselling? What possible benefit is he going to bring to the counselling world? If I was in need of psychological help I would not want some religious fundamentalist telling me how to get better, I would need more therapy to get over that! Can you imagine it? After a while you would eventually say to him Professor Dawkins style "Its obvious you know absolutely nothing about counselling!" and he would come right back at you with that leery grin "Well, maybe you haven't met the people I have"!

Then I would have to run out the door sharpish, he creeps me out!

Philip

1222. 'Jesus loves you' email

Comment #66117 by Philip1978 on August 29, 2007 at 12:05 am

Very funny video, I liked that, however the chances of Jesus actually loving anyone are practically nil.

I know I have said all this before but I have been trawling all over the place to find a Non- Christian document that actually proves Jesus existed. I have read about documents being changed and altered, even the great historian Tacitus got his stuff messed with, its hopeless. Worse still I have read that it would have been completely impossible for Jesus to have grown up in Nazareth because up until 137 AD it was a grave site for a village nearby! Jesus was good at raising the dead so I sure company wouldn't have been a problem but still I have my doubts!

So, my challenge to the religious is to do one thing for me, go and find a document that shows he existed that has not been fiddled with or made up on the spot. Go on, I dare you! hehehhe

Cheers,
Philip

1223. Anger at Malaysia 'Jesus cartoon'

Comment #66064 by Philip1978 on August 28, 2007 at 7:11 am

Yorker, you have excelled yourself sir, I take my hat off to you, that is a fine avatar!

Philip

1224. Anger at Malaysia 'Jesus cartoon'

Comment #66044 by Philip1978 on August 28, 2007 at 4:27 am

Its only Jesus for goodness sake, its not like they have taken Quetz's or Billy's image and used it in a cartoon!

Praise be to Quetz and his Prophet Billy!

Philip

1225. Scientists Induce Out-of-Body Sensation

Comment #66035 by Philip1978 on August 28, 2007 at 1:54 am

Puttputt,
That wasn't very constructive was it? Come on, you can do better than that!

Philip

1226. Feeding the fear gene

Comment #65473 by Philip1978 on August 24, 2007 at 11:34 am

oarwhat

Am glad you are open to the suggestion of burglar getting contact with some decent English Willow!

I see what you mean about being used to the guns, I guess if I had grown up with it I would be more comfortable with it all but I just would get more satisfaction of of giving a burglar a good solid cover drive! (Cricketing term, meaning to slap it out to the boundary in a certain place on the pitch!)

In all seriousness though, in England we have recently had some 11 year old shot and killed by a teenager who had got his hands on a gun, what a waste of life, its so terrifying. I hear countless stories from America, esp that one in Bowling for Columbine about a kindergarten kid who got hold of his uncles gun and shot his classmate. It breaks my heart that these things happen because guns are so dangerous. I could blame a lot of things on why guns are so popular, esp rap culture and gang culture but I don't want to make sweeping statements like that without further research. Guns just worry me because I am not used to them being around me and I worry so much that they can do such untold damage to people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

However, on a lighter note, I do feel the Witnesses are fair game and proceed to terrorise them hehehhe!

1227. Feeding the fear gene

Comment #65447 by Philip1978 on August 24, 2007 at 8:09 am

Yorker,

I understand a bit, I guess guns make me feel uncomfortable. When I went to America and South Africa when I was 19 I was aghast to see policemen with guns, I even had a couple of policemen point guns at me as they were arresting the drug dealer next door to the hostel I was staying in. One had a pump action shotgun, the other a Barretta pistol, it was peculiar because I had never seen anything like it before.

In England it is something I guess I am simply not familiar with, we have an armed response unit for treating gun situations. I think its more my experience that forces my opinion. The only people I know with guns are farmers! Look at Michael Moore, he got a gun at the bank he registered in for goodness sake! If some stupid burglar wants to come in my flat I will twat him with my cricket bat, I hate the idea of shooting someone, they could die rather than have a bloody awful headache and busted bollocks! I would beef up the home security as much as I could but the idea of shooting someone horrifies me and unless it was absolutely necessary I simply couldn't do it. But that is just me, I am sure in America it is different because people are more used to guns than I am. I am simply appalled at how easy it is to get a gun plus the horrific accidents that happen with them being in a house with small kids in etc

Those points you made I agree with up to a point but I think my dislike of guns would never force me to get one, despite the criminals having access to them.

Philip

1228. A Matter of Faith

Comment #65442 by Philip1978 on August 24, 2007 at 7:15 am

I remember my first trip to America, I was taken to Stockton University by a friend and we went to several frat parties.

I think the one thing that really made me laugh was I walked into one room and there were these guys chewing tobacco with the spittoon in front of them. After standing around for a while chatting one of them pipes up and says in the best very deep voiced Texan accent

"Yooo ain't from raaaaooowwnd heeaaarrrr arrrrre you boooooooyyyy?"

"What gives it away?" said a rather drunk Philip who was surrounded by women who seemed to love the hugh grant accent that was intruding on to my normal one ( I think I may have said "Gosh" at one point!!)

"Suuuurmthin abooowwwt yer fella, you from oarstralia?"

Why is it always Australia? hehehhehe

I spent little time in America but I was impressed by the kindness and welcome I received everywhere I went. I had a really good time and will go back when I can afford it!

Tally ho!
Philip

1229. Feeding the fear gene

Comment #65413 by Philip1978 on August 24, 2007 at 5:41 am

Yorker,
You did say "almost" a pensioner, give it a bit more time!!

I agree with most of what this guy is saying, I found a similar thing in Bowling for Columbine, I don't quite know what to make of Michael Moore but his point about the media perpetuating fear in the populace was a well thought out one. I thought that the idea of fear spreading in America causing the gun crime to go up was quite good, I am worried about the recent increase in gun crime in England, its getting stupid and I think the media has a lot to answer for. 10- 15 years ago where I used to live the idea of someone being shot or stabbed there was unthinkable, now I hear stories pretty much each month of the most horrific things going on.

But I think I will keep the idea of bed hopping if I reach a pensioners age in mind!

Right, I am off for a cup of cancer stopping Tea!!

Philip

1230. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #65389 by Philip1978 on August 24, 2007 at 2:21 am

Quetz,

I have just had word from my girlfriend that she was feeling bad this morning with headache etc She then had a cup of Tea and it was good Tea for it made her better. I have to thank You for Your kindness oh Mighty Quetz, I will see if I can convert her now that she has witnessed the wonders of truly great Tea that You did send unto her!

Cheeeers!

Philip

1231. Diamonds unlock secrets of early Earth

Comment #65382 by Philip1978 on August 24, 2007 at 1:50 am

Yorker, this is not the work of Satan, don't be daft man...everybody knows its the Flying Spaghetti Monster that messes up the dating process!!

This is fascinating, I really enjoy hearing stories like this, it gives me hope when I hear scientists are doing something worthwhile and interesting instead of pratting around creating non existent gods. Bravo chaps, keep up the good work!

Philip

1232. CNN Request for 'I-Reports' on religion

Comment #65163 by Philip1978 on August 23, 2007 at 4:29 am

Steveroot,
Thank you very much, very kind of you!

Thanks for the link, oh the irony if I was related! I think the only connection is that we studied history! (Both of us made it up as we went along hahahahaha!)

I loved this quote

"Not the storyteller that the Yahwist was, the Priestly writer is more interested in discerning order and structure in God's plan for the world."

Thanks for the laugh!

Philip

1233. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #65155 by Philip1978 on August 23, 2007 at 3:32 am

Dianelos

Oops, I made you write another essay heheheheheh mwhahahahaha etc

My sincere apologies for bringing Hilary into this, I hope you can forgive me one day hehehhehe!

"If Bobby Henderson would describe what "Flying Spaghetti Monster" refers to and why it is reasonable to believe that it is the deepest structure of reality then I can compare his idea to mine and see which works better ;-)"

*Philip sends and email to Bobby, Quick, here is your chance!!*


I think I will explain myself a bit better, I seem to have gone off on one of my frequent tangents and am likely to do so again,if it all gets too much I recommend Tea!


Ok, the FSM, my point was that it is fantastically easy for Bobby or anyone else to make the FSM more real to the same level as your God. Despite Bobby, a human having a laugh, being the creator of it all, it could so easily be made so much more convincing. I literally cannot see the difference with what you see as your God and someone else could see as the FSM. Its an FSM Created Experience just as much as it is a God Created one or as I would have it a HUMAN created experience.

I am not upset at you I promise, I think confused is a better word, upset would mean I am getting angry or think you are stupid and I refuse to go that way, its not nice! hehehe

I get really confused by how God does things, I have absolutely no concept of a God at all, it simply causes me to ask too many questions over and over again, mostly the usual ones of how the heck He got there, what He does and how do you prove it?

Why then do I accept normality? Good question, will have a stab at it! I absolutely do not think for one iota of a ghost of a scintilla of a second think that I have all the answers to this weird thing we call life. I accept a heck of a lot, I really do and I understand your reasoning that I seem to accept naturalism as the de facto be and end all meaning of it all. I also accept the brain is a weird computer capable of the most amazing feats of intelligence and also weirdness, look at Roger Shepard's "Turning the Tables" illusion( I can't explain this any better than nicking this from the Sam Harris/Andrew Sullivan post from ages ago)

http://richarddawkins.net/article,536,God-Is-Not-a-Moderate,Sam-Harris-and-Andrew-Sullivan-Beliefnetcom#022007)

If taken at face value those tables are a different size, but if investigated properly then the reality is that much less weird. Sam sums it up very well "

"The fact is that our intuitions are not always a reliable guide to the truth; and in certain situations, they can be relied upon to be wrong."


I accept this, I am not in full control of my reality as my brain would have it! But surely it makes sense to measure those tables? If they were not measured or tested in this way then the truth will not be found. This is why I tend to accept the naturalist version of things a lot more than the Theistic version. If I could find some truth in a God I would be happy to accept it, really I would, but I cannot grasp God like I can measuring those tables.

Does that make any sense at all?

Philip

1234. CNN Request for 'I-Reports' on religion

Comment #65120 by Philip1978 on August 23, 2007 at 12:25 am

I sent this off, thanks CruciFiction, I hope that helps

I am an Atheist and have no belief in any god or the supernatural as I am convinced that it is psychological torture and mental slavery. I do not hate religion, I simply don't understand why anyone would want to delude themselves in such a way as to anthropomorphise the invisible and and highly improbable in order to feel safe in the world.

This is a beautiful planet, outstanding galaxy and a mind blowing universe, I don't need to insert a god into it to make it any better and it is preposterous to assert that there is based on the Universe and its contents being here.

Human beings created their gods, not the other way around. I think its barbaric what religion has done to the world and I am convinced it is one of the biggest causes of fear and misery in this world. I mentioned psychological torture and mental slavery above and this is what it is. The firm belief that your prayers will, will not or might be answered, the promise of eternal bliss or damnation depending on whether the impossible rules and regulations demanded from the religion can be followed. The promise that the religion that is followed is the right one and all the others are wrong and in certain cases it is necessary to die or kill for it. The notion that if something or someone is "Holy" it makes them important enough for their impossible doctrines must be adhered to, even if it means the death and suffering of others. The notion that despite further evidence to suggest otherwise, faith is always going to be right and the proper facts wrong. I want none of this.

I am a happy and enthusiastic man with a love of life and people, I will help all I can those who need it, not because I want to curry favour with a god, its because I simply care. I will continue to question, I want to learn new things and to accept when I am wrong, I will continue to raise awareness of the damages of religion to encourage people to live and get the most out of the precious time we have on this amazing planet.

Thank you for your time,
Philip Priestley

1235. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #64847 by Philip1978 on August 22, 2007 at 4:20 am

Lee

I think I can just imagine it, here is my take on it, this has just been made up on the spot but here goes

It is well known that certain alcoholic drinks, when poured into the wrong type of metal container, have a chemical reaction which renders the drinker in a dead-like manner. It happened in medieval times so it could have happened in the early days of AD! So, the eclipse happens in the middle of someone being crucified and everybody is going mad cos they don't know what it is. Lets say the chap getting crucified was a popular chap and his mates had gone off just before the eclipse to have a drink in his name and end up drinking the wrong alcoholic drink in the wrong cup. When it finally arrives and they happen to wake up feeling pretty dreadful and start than long walk home (you know how it is after a few jars!) People who see them stumbling along think its the dead risen from the grave at a time when its dark etc.

Some guy, lets call him Matthew, hears about this and thinks, cor, thats a great yarn, could do with a bit of spice...

Hows that?

Philip

Heavy Metal music causes most who listen to it to "Mosh" thus shaking off any God rays that are bombarding them!

1236. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #64826 by Philip1978 on August 22, 2007 at 2:04 am

Dianelos,

HA! got ya posting again you old rascal!!


I was under the impression that gravity can be tested by hurling a ball in the air, now I am under the impression that according to Newton and heaps of other scientists who have debated this, that ball is going to come back down to Earth. Electrons too have been debated and mucked about with so much that I think its existence has some evidence backing it all up and hence my computer is working today!

(I see BMMcArdle has been playing with Douglas's TV set, its not a magic picture box you fool, its the little men running around inside it making it work!!)

Gods, they are completely different, I have seen on another thread something highly interesting and I want to share it here, this was cut and pasted from http://www.christianfaithandreason.com/mcdurmon.html

"Rather, in a God-created universe, there can be nothing but evidence for the existence of God. Such a universe - and I believe this is such a universe - declares God's existence and His glory at every turn."

I think this is something highly similar to the responses I have received from all the religious people on this site. God is untouchable to jonny human, he is beyond thought, sight, imagination etc He simply IS. Somehow gods are beyond science and are a thing unto themselves that nobody could possible even get close to describing what that god is or does.

If you want an explanation of Electrons or Gravity, I can bet there is someone on this site who could give you an amazing explanation. All you would have to say after that is something like, well God is behind it all, he is the "IT" that makes an electron an electron. Or something similar and I think I will get answer along the lines of I have got all this wrong as well.

I have mentioned time and again how this line of reasoning baffles me to the core, when all evidence suggests that gods are impossible and improbable the answer back is like the above, God is simply God, He does it, He did it.

Lets look at the above quote, I could apply that to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I know full well that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a creation of the mind of an American gentleman by the name of Bobby Henderson who was/is a student at Kansas University. He created the Flying Spaghetti Monster because he was arguing against the teaching Intelligent Design in his Physics class. Now, look at your line of reasoning, and Paul's for that matter, and see that I can use your same arguments for proving that His Nooodlyness could still exist. You could say to me "but Philip, it was made up by this man etc" and all I would have to say back is "How could you know when you do not think along the right Nooodly lines!" The Spaghetti Monster is real because the Universe proves it so, he is beyond science and microscope and human imagination. He is all those and much more etc etc

So you will have to understand that I still think you and Paul are acting a bit like Douglas's TV guy, "Ok I know how the TV works, but surely there HAVE to be a few little men running around or how would the TV work?!"

Hence my complete incomprehension of why you guys believe what you do, I don't understand what you mean when you claim Theism has some amazing knowledge or power stored in it that circumvents the normal world. I just watched Hilary Clinton respond when asked what she thought her personal god was up to at the time of Hurricane Katrina etc and she gave the most hideous response along the lines of not questioning the wisdom of her god and that she simply gets by through the power of prayer. This is precisely what I am talking about, God seems to be involved in EVERYTHING and yet religious people feel they are not worthy or unable to question the wisdom of their god. God has a wise plan for us all and nobody is able to question it, why? because you just can't Philip, now stop being silly! Every time I hear this my automatic reaction is why must it be so impossible to question your god and get an answer? Impossible rules and answers and no questioning it because god is beyond it all , whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?????? I need more TEA!

Oh well, his Noodlyness moves in mysterious ways!

Cheers,
Philip Priestley (No relation to Jason I promise hehehehe!)

1237. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #64630 by Philip1978 on August 21, 2007 at 4:02 am

Lee,

I know exactly what you are talking about, I too want a non-christian to pop up somewhere from that part of history and say "Yes, this Jesus chap was walking on the water the other day plus he raised that other chap from the dead, jolly nice of him, I say, has breakfast tea been invented yet?" (Sorry, my Hebrew is a little rusty these days so I gave my character and English voice! hehehe)

So far my investigations have brought up nothing to make me thing that there is any truth in the story, though I still have a lot to wade through. All the sources I have read so far have all been doctored or so completely vague that I still cannot find a historical document.

Further more since I don't have a religious bone in my body, like you, the moment I start reading anything in the Bible, automatically questions pop up despite my efforts to let the Jesus or God character exist or do the things they do. I start asking stuff from the ridiculous to the confused. Did Jesus really have smelly feet that he needed so much expensive oil to wash them in? Where did Cain's wife come from? Why did Jesus send a herd of pigs off on a marathon to go and jump of a cliff? Why must I go kill people who tell me there are other Gods? None of it makes any sense to me apart from looking at it as a guide book to how they thought around 2000 or so years ago. Like the Iliad, it makes more sense to me to enjoy it as a story and not believe it.

More TEA, I needs it, I wants it, the precious TEA!
Philip

I saw Maiden last year, they were amazing!

1238. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #64599 by Philip1978 on August 21, 2007 at 1:34 am

Paul,

I could very well be a hyper intelligent shade of the colour blue and not the mild manner looney you see in my photo!


However, since I am quoting Douglas Adams here I will go with one of his theories about the universe "Anything that happens, happens". Taking everything at it simplest explanation rather than making up any more unnecessary complications. I can imagine all sorts of things about the universe, considering just how vivid my imagination can be we are going to need a few galaxies worth! But the simplest and most truthful explanation is that you are typing to a 29 year old English lunatic with dark brown hair and no definite eye colour- they have been known to change during the day from green to blue and to grey!

I posted on the artificial life thread a, (hopefully!) harmless, joke to dear old Bizzaro Dawkins about how humans have created their gods and are now about to create artificial life. I told him that should he need evidence of a designer he should look no further than a human being. Thing is, joking aside, there is a lot of truth in that statement. Gods have risen and fallen in the minds of humans for a heck of a long time now and it confuses me as to how then people can still be creating them now. I can understand in back in the past where knowledge was nowhere near what it is now that the idea of a god interfering with things must have been highly plausible. But now, knowledge is increasing to the point where gods are getting smaller and smaller, the need for them to help explain things simply isn't required.

I myself cannot see any reason to have a god do anything that normality cannot explain, so I don't have all the answers but I rather think that's more fun. Gods are fun in a way, the Greek gods from the Trojan War (If that ever took place of course!) interest me greatly. I love the stories of the Norse gods, brilliant stuff, nice and exciting however impossible it all is. I even like the idea of your god, whatever it is he does, sounds like fun but I cannot for the life of me want to believe in it. Because it is an illusion, it cannot be tested, talked to, touched, seen or heard. I dont like the idea of imagining hearing voices in my head claiming to be a deity. I don't want the ominous task of actually working out precisely what he/she/it wants because it is so impossible it not worth it. I don't want to rely on it and ask it to help me with situations because the Yes, No or Maybe answer back makes it so frustratingly odd. Finding out which is the right god to believe in as well also makes the task of faith just so incomprehensibly difficult.

Oh well, essay over, hope you enjoyed it, may the Force be with you, I will catch you later!
Philip

1239. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #64510 by Philip1978 on August 20, 2007 at 10:24 am

Paul,

"So, what do you do? To them, the Bible is an important part of their faith, and their faith is something that makes them better people. Phil's post (1849) 'How is doing good on the behalf of the invisible and highly improbable better living?' misses the point. Most Christians I know try hard to be more honest, less selfish and basically live with greater integrity. And it's not about trying to avoid hell either - Christians believe it was Jesus' sacrifice that put everything right, not anything that we can do."


Where did I miss the point exactly?

Have you seen the film Good Will Hunting? there is a lovely part where Robin Williams asks Mat Damon's character who his soul mates are and Mat reels off a list of poets and philosophers. Robin then makes a lovely point about all those people being dead and its a bit of a one way conversation.

That is exactly the same with any god anyone wishes to magic into existence, you can't know what god thinks of you other than how you imagine what He thinks. I really don't see how it can be done. How could you possibly know what the highly improbable and invisible could possibly want without making it up?

Going to the Bible for references is not a good idea because first you have to find the right translation. Look at how many times it has been changed and altered by people who thought they were "doing God's will" to the point where actually getting the "word of God" right seems a fruitless task. Yes there are beautiful passages locked away in there but there are also some barbaric and disgusting ones as well. Slavery, rape, killing children, the notion of hell, Jesus having no historical evidence to back up all the miracles he is supposed to have performed or him ever existing at all...the list goeth on!

I sound like I am frothing a bit here but I just can't explain religion any other way than that it is perpetuating a lie. I don't like the idea that Jesus is supposed to have died for people's sins, V's post summed it up fantastically about just how odd that whole thing is. I am convinced Jesus never existed and to hear that people think that they should base their lives around the dying of a non-existent character in a highly ambiguous book just baffles me.

I don't understand religion because I have never believed, I questioned too much too early in life to let it become any part of my life. A lot of people on here have experienced god in some way shape or form because they questioned things as they began to realise the parts in their religion that did not add up, something was wrong and it could not be answered in any other way than, this can't be true. I just wanted you to get an idea of how difficult religion is for me having never experienced it and why I sound like I froth a bit. now and then. I honestly don't think badly of you, you sound like a marvelous chap and I enjoy reading your posts. I came on this site to learn things, not to blast away at people's characters :) I just think very badly of religion, I think it is psychological torture and I can never see how it could be justified as a way of life.

Oh dear, what a rant, breathe Philip, breathe! More Tea!!

Cheers

Philip

1240. Artificial Life Likely in 3 to 10 Years

Comment #64411 by Philip1978 on August 20, 2007 at 2:53 am

Biz,

Humans created their gods, humans are possibly about to create artificial life,if you are looking for a designer look no further than human beings!

Philip

1241. The age of endarkenment

Comment #64391 by Philip1978 on August 20, 2007 at 12:35 am

Cartomancer, you must take TEA with you in those situations, how else are you going to think properly?! hehehe

This is a frightening article, I have no time for medical nonsense especially when people's lives are at stake. I now refer to religion as psychological torture, this also has fallen into the same boat as far as I am concerned. This pathetic promise of things being better with the "drug" or "faith" being there to help rather than up to date peer reviewed medicine (Ok even that is nowhere near perfect but at least the promise is a better one)

You can see this sort of rubbish in Professor Dawkins's new program, my favourite was the group of Dowsers who failed to find the water. I think this is the perfect demonstration of "faith" at work. First when their supposed powers are proved beyond all doubt they are aghast, they get depressed and left in shock for a few minutes. then they begin to make things up like "oh but I usually stand on a raised platform when I do this and that's how I find water, they wouldn't let me do that and so that's why it didn't work!" Faith restored, madness resumes.

This is the same for the magic herb crowd, oh but I wasn't standing on my head with luminous underpants on so that's why I don't feel better! Nobody ever questions the actual cause of the problem, the medicine itself unless of course it has been properly peer reviewed in which case if the drug is later found to be a lie or is harmful then the company in question can be sued. But the magic herbs, they get a full government backing and everything they need to make money and lie to people... I can see something wrong here, I just can't put my finger on it...

Ah well, at least I have the Tea of Quetz to ward off all ills, woo hoo! :)

Cheers,

Philip

1242. The Pentagon Sends Messengers of Apocalypse to Convert Soldiers in Iraq

Comment #64022 by Philip1978 on August 17, 2007 at 10:11 am

Careful there Dr Benway, thats Satan making you say that...well according to Stephen Baldwin from his book The Unusual Suspects, I got this from http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/10/09/baldwin/


"The Unusual Suspect" features an open letter to Bono, lambasting him for lobbying for debt relief for developing countries instead of preaching the gospel on MTV. Bono must be in league with Satan, whom Baldwin spends a lot of time thinking about. "I am smart enough to know that Satan is alive and well today," he writes. "Satan has all kinds of power, and he is able to control the minds of anyone whose mind isn't controlled by God."

This guy is cultural adviser to Bush for crying out loud! What a looney!

Philip

1243. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #63998 by Philip1978 on August 17, 2007 at 8:02 am

"Theists tend to be committed to living better, less selfish lives"

How is doing good on the behalf of the invisible and highly improbable better living? Knowing what each god wants is the definition of futility and ambiguity, how do you know if you got it right or wrong? Imagine you did something in Odin's name that you thought was good and then finding out Zeus is really hacked off with you because you should have done it for him!

Personally I think god has nothing to do with it and behaviour is unique to the individual, a god is really not needed to explain anything that goes on because it can happen just as well without one. I am baffled as to why its important to have a god involved in good or bad behaviour, the rules are so far fetched as to what the level of involvement of the deity is.

Life is complicated enough without adding gods to into it all, personally I think its psychologically damaging to the individual who thinks that they have done something wrong in the name of their god. Let me give you an example

Lets say I suddenly think that one of my actions has insulted or offended my girlfriend. I then worry that she will be angry with me or never forgive me, I could let my imagination go nuts if I wanted to. But I don't actually know until I ask her do I? I can then talk directly to her and she can tell me if anything is wrong and we can sort it out.

How do you rectify it with a god? There you are sweating away that you will go to hell or get punished somehow and there is no direct link to god apart from your imagination. I can know the mind of my girlfriend (well, kind of!hehehe!), I cannot know the mind of a god. You don't and can't properly know with god if he/she/it is happy or sad with you and what their level of involvement will be in the matter.

I have heard it said that gods forgive but how can you prove it beyond as much doubt as it would be with a real human being? Humans will let you know when you have buggered up, gods are rubbish at it!

So why bother with god when humans are much more communicative and honest?

cheers, Philip

1244. The Out Campaign: Interview with Josh Timonen

Comment #63975 by Philip1978 on August 17, 2007 at 5:49 am

Josh,

Thank you so much, I too appreciate all the hard work you do. Thanks to your site I have managed to type to some amazing people and I keep learning something all the time. Keep up the good work!

Cheers!

Philip Priestley

1245. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63804 by Philip1978 on August 16, 2007 at 12:55 am

Darwin2
This is too easy watch this

"Yes, they present evidence but their evidence does not disprove the existence of Odin"

"I never expect to meet The Flying Spaghetti Monster. He is infinite. I am finite but I can appreciate Him through His magnificent creations"

How on Earth am I to back any of that up with evidence like that? How can you justify claiming that is evidence of your god when I can just as easily make the same statements as you can but with different gods. Humans make their gods, there are countless examples throughout the entirety of history, so please don't keep asserting that your god is any different from Odin or the Flying Spaghetti Monster


Anything that happens, happens- I will explain this further, you missed my point entirely. This is Occam's Razor, this is looking at something and choosing the most simple explanation over something more wildly complicated. God is too complicated to explain how things work when there are better and easier ones at hand. I am no scientist but the Anthropic principle is so much easier for me to understand than god to explain the origins of the universe. I advise you to go and read something like Bill Bryson's Brief History of Nearly Everything to get a grasp of just how fortunate you are to be here. For your god or Odin to have done all of this then requires an explanation of how they hell they got there in the first place, how do you create a god? Easy, get a human to do it in his or her mind.
I trust the tested and peer approved theories of many scientists so much more than I do the figments of people's over active imaginations simply because the figments of people's over active imaginations are not testable. The theory behind it is made up on the spot and can be anything you like because it doesn't require proof, just Faith. You can morph your god into anything you like, nothing is impossible. The Anthropic principle doesn't speak to me, doesn't tell me how to live my life or do things in ITS name, it very simply explains how I got to be here. Now, if there was evidence to suggest otherwise, that was tested and approved by many scientists and worked then I would be happy to change my mind in face of new facts. I can bet my life that you are in no position whatsoever to change your mind in the face of all the evidence that disproves your god. If God, Allah, Odin, Thor or any of the others pitch up one day and provide evidence of their existence and how they manipulate the goings on of the universe, then fine, they have my attention. Until then, I don't think I will give the invisible, highly improbable figments of imagination any credibility at all.

Right, I need more Tea, catch you later,

Philip

1246. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63630 by Philip1978 on August 15, 2007 at 6:14 am

Darwin2

I dont know if you are married but imagine this,
if I said someone was sleeping with your wife, just like that would you believe me? Or would you ask for more evidence to prove your wife was not sleeping with another person. You would probably ask me to prove it, you would probably ask your wife or at least do some proper investigation to be able to call me a liar.

Does a policeman turn up at a crime scene and simply walk off, find someone who looks like they committed the crime and cart them off to jail? No, he looks at all available evidence like fingerprints, DNA samples, clothing, footprints etc Then using his intellect he goes around investigating what he has by asking questions, he asks several people for their versions of the crime. He basically does all the detecting he can because it is important to catch the right criminal and bring him to justice so that criminal cant commit more crimes. How far would he get if he said "Well, the devil did it and I KNOW he did"?
He would have to find evidence of the Devil himself before losing his job.

Now, you seem to be asserting that you know your god exists and that we are wrong for suggesting proper evidence is needed, I suggest you take a long hard look at what people are typing to you. They are backing up their statements with more than just wild assertions of invisible grandeur.

How do you know your god is God? Why not Zeus, the Spaghetti Monster, Allah, Baal, Odin? I have just as much evidence to suggest its them as you do your god if I use your line of reasoning.

Why not use Douglas Adams' statement "Anything that happens, happens", its reasonable and it involves simplicity without having to add gods to the event complicating it and letting it get wildly out of control.

I am not perfect, nothing is, life is just weird sometimes, I don't have all the answers but I don't want to invent an answer from the invisible and improbable side of life when a simpler version exists without it. I hope you understand this, you probably will ignore a lot of what I have said because you KNOW your god better than me but ask yourself where is he and how come he doesnt make his presence better known by simply proving to world he exist in a less complicated way?

kind regards,

Philip

1247. These preachers of hate must be exposed

Comment #63590 by Philip1978 on August 15, 2007 at 2:39 am

Corylus, thanks so much for the link, I intend to use that a bit more often now!

I have written the following to Theresa May, my MP

Following a recent article by Joan Smith from the Independent Newspaper I have decided to write to you concerning the decision to nearly take Channel 4 executives to court over their broadcast of their investigation into the Wahhabi influence in British mosques. Below are links to the article and the episode of Undercover Mosque and I have one question concerning the treatment of the Channel 4 executives in this matter. In the article it claims that the main charge against the executives were that the views and opinions of the clerics seen ranting away were "taken out of context". After watching the recording I would like you to think about just what conceivable context could possibly make the things said any less appalling? Further more I would like to know why such an ridiculous mess was made of the Racial and Religious Hatred bill in the first place.

I am worried about the fact that the present Labour government has done its best to make it increasingly difficult to criticise such religious extremism without being called a racist or Islamophobic.

I find that this soft approach just gives encouragement to the extremists knowing that they can get away with hateful incitement without fear of prosecution. Look at the case against Abu Hamza the Cleric from the Finsbury Park Mosque. Look at the special treatment he gets simply because of his religion, we are to respect this man's religion when he has been using it to advocate the destruction of the people that HAVE to respect his religious views. Why has the Labour government made it law that the wrong people are being criticised for speaking out against something so dangerous.


The Channel 4 Executives were being charged for inciting religious hatred when it is clear the true hatred was being preached by the extremists. Like all other faiths, Islam must be able to stand up to reasoned criticism just like the others. They should not be given any more special privilege than other faiths, if the criticism is true then it should be allowed to be mentioned without fear of arrest. I am all for living in a peaceful society and will contribute to it in any way I can but I don't see how this can be achieved if people like those in the documentary can escape criticism.

I am interested to hear your views on this and also what could possibly be done about it, thank you for your time,


Yours sincerely,

Philip Priestley

Below are the links I mentioned:


http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_m_z/joan_smith/article2861717.ece

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&mode=related&search=

Oops, I may have made a mistake, this has not been made law yet has it? Oh well, will keep you all updated if I get a response

Philip

1248. These preachers of hate must be exposed

Comment #63392 by Philip1978 on August 14, 2007 at 4:26 am

David! Hope Bulgaria was fun and that you are well, how did it go?

One question, I took this quote from your website it says that the Free Church of Scotland

"...stands firmly in the tradition which accepts the Bible in its entirety as the Word of God and, therefore, derives its forms of teaching, worship, ministry and government from it."

I must conclude then that this includes Deuteronomy and if I am not mistaken that really isn't the nicest way of treating unbelievers is it? I am in no way going to compare you with the fundamentalist monsters that preach the above such maniacal hate. After all you have acknowledged the hatred of which they spout is evil in your post. My point though is the Bible does preach hate as much as it does have some reasonably friendly things.

I want to be careful here because I have noticed in the past whenever I have presented a discussion point you point out I make a few mistakes about your church and religion. I am merely going on the above statement off your site and the contents of the bible using Deuteronomy as an example. Please can you explain this, I would like to hear your opinion,
cheers,
Philip

1249. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #63377 by Philip1978 on August 14, 2007 at 3:30 am

Mark,

I also offer my deepest sympathies over the loss of your mother, I hope you will be ok.

The one major problem I have with prophesying anything is that absolutely ANYBODY could pick it up in the time frame predicted and do exactly what it asks.
The prophesies in the Bible are so vague and incomplete, look at how that prophesy about the "Nazarine" gets out of hand. This actually refers to Samson and not Jesus but Matthew still manages to twist it to make it look like true prophesy and that Jesus grew up there despite there being evidence to the contrary. Since there is no evidence to prove Jesus grew up in Nazareth other than the Bible could it possibly be the prophesy is wrong? Or is Matthew not talking about the messiah and he is a very naughty boy!

take care,

Philip

1250. Amnesty to defy Catholic church over rape victims' abortion rights

Comment #63137 by Philip1978 on August 13, 2007 at 8:09 am

Tigerbalm

I really hope you dont actually believe what you typed below:

"C'mon all you bleeding hearts, tell me what is the point of expressing all your oh-so-righteous, sad indignation over just one thing like this, given our bloody history"


"Man is a killing and raping machine, no doubt about it, and our big brain has just made us better at it. What a sorry lot we are! The planet really would be better off without us.

I was expressing my total disgust with this complete lack of thought and compassion for women who have been raped. If my concern for a friend who I love to the ends of this Earth earns me the title of bleeding heart then fine, so be it,its the least I can do for her after what she went through.

Please can you at least think about what you are saying because I really don't approve of what you wrote, I get the impression you don't know what you are talking about.

Philip