1251. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #54889 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 8:34 am

Dammit GBG, I had a whole passage just deleted as I was checking stuff!

I was wrong to say Nazareth was the birthplace, thanks for pointing that out, but I still stand by my opinion that it was not there at the time of Jesus, it was a grave yard for the people who lived nearby in Jafa who were massacred by Emperor Trajan later on but more on that later I promise

I will have to get back to you tomorrow with a whole argument but I would like to thank you for the stuff you sent

The "Testimony" of Mara Bar-Serapion, I will explain more but I can't find Jesus in there, he mentions Pythagoras and Socrates by name, why not this "Wise Man" it refers to?

Tacitus, wow, now that has got me thinking, my initial thoughts are directed the group Christiani, who were part of the Jewish Revolt in 66 to 73 which fits with Nero's reign of 54 to 68 but give me more time tomorrow

Right, I have to go home, catch you tomorrow,
Philip

1252. Open Debate: The Righteousness of Blasphemy

Comment #54827 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 4:08 am

Didn't Professor Dawkins quote on his Galapagos trip from bumper stickers saying "Blasphemy is a victimless crime!"

1253. Brainwashed children plead to die as martyrs in Red Mosque siege

Comment #54779 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 12:39 am

I think the article has provided some very interesting points, the first one being Musharraf's inability to control the religious militants, once he caved into them he let a lot of his power base drain away. A good example is when he wanted to reform the rape laws in Pakistan but had to back down once the religious put heaps of pressure on him.
He is also an ally of the West which makes his position even more difficult, again the religious putting a lot of pressure on him. I think this is one of the most important things about somewhere like Pakistan is that relations with the West need to remain on good terms, Pakistan has become a nuclear power which makes it a very dangerous enemy, especially with the fanatic extremists who given half the chance would go for the kill everything and everyone option. But at the same time Musharraf has to keep equilibrium or his rule is in jeopardy and I personally am very worried that his grip is being weakened as time goes on.

You would think that by using children as human shields The Red Mosque would have been vilified by the whole lot of them but religion again comes to their rescue and manages to somehow justify their actions. Very sad indeed

1254. Won't anyone stand up for God?

Comment #54774 by Philip1978 on July 9, 2007 at 12:12 am

Downunder, I am sorry you feel that a little bit of banter is unwelcome on this site, if you want intelligent discussion fine, ask anybody a serious question and they will answer it for you properly. I for one encourage it because the main reason above everything else in this life is to have a sense of humour and a laugh once in a while, surely even your god has a sense of humour?

1255. At a Theater Near You ...

Comment #54040 by Philip1978 on July 5, 2007 at 4:17 am

Hey Jonny, thanks for the links, that guy sounds like a legend, my hat off to them all for doing what they did, very brave men indeed.

Incidentally, I don't believe a kick in the nads from an outraged Scotsman failed to incapacitate that man, he must have been wearing a cricket box hence the tendons going kaput!

1256. Yes, the universe looks like a fix. But that doesn't mean that a god fixed it

Comment #54032 by Philip1978 on July 5, 2007 at 2:55 am

gimlibengloin,

"Well if evolution was true the Bible would be false."

I would like to take you up on a small challenge if that's ok?

Thing is I find the Bible to be incredibly false, mainly due to its numerous translations, revisions by a multitude of authors. I am convinced more and more that many of its stories have been plagiarised by its authors from other religions such as Buddhism, Judaism, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and Pagan Religions. Its historically inaccurate, it has many contradictions and there is more evidence to show that most of its characters, especially Jesus, never existed.

How for example did Jesus get born twice? He was either born in about 6BC and about 4AD in, according to the authors, Nazareth. Nazareth has been dated by some of the best (and worst!) archaeologists in the world to be from around the 2nd Century onwards, so how can he have been born there? After all before the 2nd Century it was being used as a cemetery, hardly the right place to bring up a kid, esp the son of a deity!

I could go on for ages but back to my request for I am interested to see if you can tell me of any historical evidence, other than the Bible, for Jesus of Nazareth existing. I have read about many people called Jesus for whom there is evidence, the closest one to crucifixion was a chap called Jesus ben Stada but he was crucified in the early 2nd century in Lydda, 25 miles from Jerusalem. I have been reading a lot about this lately but I am curious to see if there is any evidence that I have not yet uncovered and would like your opinion on it as I am interested in this subject.

Be great to hear from you,
Philip

1257. When is a bishop like a suicide bomber?

Comment #53921 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 7:56 am

geckoman

Great post, I enjoyed reading that very interesting

I have suggested in the past that women could possibly be the key to solving Islamic oppression by not putting up with the treatment they are getting and actually advocate being treated as human beings rather than some slave with whom the men can do want they want to. Much easier said than done when you look at what has essentially become Stockholm Syndrome where the women simply put up with their lot and it becomes a way of life. But I am an optimist and I don't want to give up hope on that.

My big problem is that these guys do not have the first clue as how to treat women and women have very little idea as to what it is like to be treated nicely or fairly. The religion is so daft because, as you said they haven't a clue what they are doing and there is absolutely no positive interaction between them, the whole idea of romance is lost on them in a big way. I have heard that sometimes most men's first sexual experience in somewhere like Pakistan is either with their best male friend (yay for gay rights but this doesn't tend to have the right outcome) or an animal, mostly dogs, yeeesh!

I like your idea of night clubs and breweries, how do we go about slipping that one in the Koran?!

1258. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #53908 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 4:22 am

pewkatchoo,
I screamed aloud to the David Robertson
I said dont lie dont say you dont know
I say you'll pay for your mischief
In this world or the pub
Oh and then he fixed me with a freezing glance
And the hellfires raged in his eyes
He said do you wanna know the truth son
Ill tell you the truth
Your souls gonna burn in a lake of fire

1259. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton

Comment #53890 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 1:51 am

darwin2 am sorry you have probably heard many times what I have typed below about the differences between religion and science but I feel they need to be made

How can you scientifically test the invisible and imaginary?

Religion and Science are complete polar opposites because Science needs evidence to work, Religion simply needs faith to work and faith is belief without evidence.

If your god is the Supreme Designer, who designed him/her/it? I would say human beings designed their gods and I have more evidence for that that you do for proof of your god.

I would also actually like to ask is how when Science explains something do you then need to add your god into the equation, it works just as well without him/her/it as it does with.

Be interesting to hear from you, I promise I am not wanting to chew your head off about this, I would like to know your views and opinions, cheers, Philip

1260. Don't Mince Words: The London Car-Bomb Plot Was Designed to Kill Women

Comment #53881 by Philip1978 on July 4, 2007 at 12:20 am

Ah, I admire the Scottish for many a reason, I know that's mighty strange coming from an Englishman, but I am very proud of the way you handle yourselves in times of trouble. "This is Glasgow - we'll just set about you", if that is not enough to put the shits in the terrorists then there is always the promise of getting a Glasgow Kiss or banjoed, perfect, my hat off to you all!

1261. Floods are judgment on society, say bishops

Comment #53739 by Philip1978 on July 3, 2007 at 1:58 am

Steve99 I knew it was yours and your husband's fault! You naughty boys had better patch things up immediately...oh wait a minute...its my fault too cos I have no problem with it at all hehehehe! How long have you been married?

Saying that I think Wee Flea's god has cursed me with a slight case of food poisoning this morning. I guess it was when I quoted Deuteronomy in my last post to him and now I have a plague upon my stomach!!

Seriously, my deepest condolences to those who have lost people in these awful floods, the last thing they need is some prat in a fancy dress costume telling them that their loved ones are dead because of His bigotry. Possibly you don't need me making jokes like the above as well, but my humour is out of disgust for such a horrible and unjustified set of comments.

Philip

1262. God Hates the World

Comment #53003 by Philip1978 on June 29, 2007 at 1:40 am

David, happy holidays, hope the weather is better than England right now!

I don't think I explained myself properly so here goes

I don't think anyone on this site is evil, not even you, if this was politics I think I could get a fair few people on this site to disagree with me and the chairs would probably start flying! Its the discussion that I think brings out people's passions. Have you ever been to an England Scotland rugby match? I went to one in Twickenham just before we won the world cup, it was amazing (Ok so England won and I am being somewhat biassed here hehe!) I heard in the crowd some highly suggestible places as to where the English could park their chariot and I do believe I heard some very posh voice bark back asking them to go forth and multiply! I saw who it was and throughout the match they had the most wonderful slanging match, but as I was walking out at the end of the game I saw these people at the bar drinking a pint and laughing. Now I am convinced the discussions on here are more to do with passions and frustrations with the differences in our opinions. It just so happens we are chatting about religion.

The other problem is that we are reading off a computer screen, now sometimes I can be chatting to friends on msn or texting and the way I have come across sometimes is completely different to the meaning I wanted to convey. Some people can take offence sometimes for the wrong reasons, you can find a post back somewhere about one of the articles on circumcision where I flew off the handle at someone. I had to apologise when I discovered his post had been sarcasm and not the literal truth. I think you can therefore expect that when you type a few things on here because you hold religious views that we don't, we will respond in kind or unkindly as the case may be. If I went on a religious site as you have come to an atheist site I can bet a lot of money some people will take great delight in quoting their sacred book and telling me how this sinner will suffer eternal torment for not adhering to their doctrines. I think the big difference on this site is that its passionate discussion, I wish nothing bad to ever happen to you, I simply don't agree with you that there is a god. So if we are going to discuss something like religion expect a few verbal handbags once in a while.

Billy is evil? As I see it he doesn't hate you, he, like me, simply cannot comprehend what you believe in and also some of the things you have said in your posts. Your religion is based on a book which I cannot understand, its cruelty and absolute bile towards unbelievers is horrible. For example, the viciousness of the Old Testament, Deuteronomy is simply awful. 58: If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;
59: Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

You have to admit that's worse than being told to fuck off, that above tells me the LORD THY GOD actually takes pleasure in the knowledge that if you don't agree, here comes the suffering. Of course I am going to object to this, I don't accept it, I think its evil! Nobody on here has wished plagues or death upon you as far as I know, just a few verbal handbags, most of which are sarcastic and you shouldn't take it to heart.

"No – I don't get up in the morning and think – does God want me to have a cappuccino or an expresso today. My belief in God underlies my life but does not take away from my humanity – rather I would argue it enhances it."

Oops, I think I got this one wrong, I didn't mean the cappuccino decision, it was the more the enhancing bit that I was, very badly, referring to. I think just because I am an Atheist it is not something I use to enhance my life, I use my inane bouncing optimistic stupidity for that!! I would say you don't need your god to still feel enhanced, just an opinion but I think a valid one (though the right espresso can do wonders after a tough night!!)

My moral judgement does not include a god, if I have rejected any notion of god how can he influence my decisions?

John Keats, Shakespeare, Douglas Adams,Sam Harris, Professor Dawkins, Marilyn Manson, Billy, _J_, Quetz, Yorker, Manfred, Rachel, Logicel, Logicel's husband's trousers, Veronique, Rtambree, MIND REBEL, Drbenway, Corylus,scottishgeologist ,alovrin, Donald, epeeist, Fedler,Lauregon, Coel, pewkatchoo ,CJ22, BAEOZ, steve99, steveroot, LeeC, Richard Maynard, Russell Blackford, Brian Coughlan (and others who I will add when I edit this, I apologise in advance and if the spellings wrong, will correct it I promise!) my friends, my family, the beautiful women I have had the honour of being with, my life, my work, to name a few have greatly influenced my life in one way or another. (unless this is the matrix but I will leave the philosophy to others on this site) My point is that if I started relying on them as you do to your god I think a few might start to worry (though saying that Billy, Quetz and Logicel seem to have accepted worship without any fuss!hehehe) They all provide me with some of my intellectual justifications in one way or another but my point is that at any time I could disagree with them and the same goes for everyone else.

Right, rant over, but I will leave you with this, from the evidence in the bible, who is allowed to disagree with that god and not suffer for it?

Have a lovely holiday,
Cheers!
Philip

1263. Lecture on Neo-Darwinism

Comment #52783 by Philip1978 on June 28, 2007 at 4:30 am

Puts cushion on CJ22's table, don't hurt yourself on his account, he doesn't deserve it!

1264. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #52771 by Philip1978 on June 28, 2007 at 3:49 am

Simple thing would have been to allow the carnivorous animals to feed on the dead in the other boats! hehehehe

I have been following that Alistair McGrath thread, I stopped posting on it after I could not get my head around what exactly Dianelos's god actually is and what he believes in, very interesting though

As for DR, he also got a bit angry with me when I asked him what he meant by questioning his beliefs everyday, then I moved to history and he laughed at me, I think I will continue with the history it might mellow him! Plus I am convinced he thinks we are some sort of Dawkins cultists! David if you are reading this I promise you we are not!!

Oh well, I hope Theo and Mark return to this as I really have enjoyed this thread a lot, heck, I am even starting to learn stuff!
Cheers to you all,
Philip

1265. God Hates the World

Comment #52730 by Philip1978 on June 28, 2007 at 12:23 am

scottishgeologist

SPLITTER!!!

1266. I believe that there is no God.

Comment #52725 by Philip1978 on June 27, 2007 at 11:56 pm

"It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more."

I love that, begging the invisible for more, good article, I enjoyed reading that a lot. Never had Jell-O but from what I have heard already mixing it with family, people, love, truth, beauty and sex does not seem a good idea!!

(Mel Z, call me presumptuous, but I have the slight inkling that you are an Iron Maiden fan, I would just like to congratulate you on your choice of band, I once discovered Fear of the Dark and never looked back!)

1267. God Hates the World

Comment #52502 by Philip1978 on June 27, 2007 at 6:26 am

David, I am still worried that your view of atheism is clouded by your experiences as a minister and a religious man.

Honestly, I think you need to look at it this way, people do not do things because of their atheism, its not something I suddenly turn to when making decisions. I imagine that beyond your usual instincts your day to day decisions are motivated primarily with your beliefs in mind?( I could be wrong here so correct me if I am wrong)

My life is not guided by my lack of belief in a god, I don't use it to justify my reasons for doing things, I simply use my moral judgement. I don't turn to Professor Dawkins or Sam Harris when I need comfort or aid in my decisions, if I am in trouble I seen the advice of my friends and family if its that bad.

Please look at my last post as I think I am repeating myself here, I am confused by your train of thought,
cheers,
Philip

1268. Messiah

Comment #52492 by Philip1978 on June 27, 2007 at 6:10 am

Adrian, she is right, there was a huuuge shard out of his foot, it was gruesome!

I know how sometimes if the glass or whatever the magician is standing on is grouped enough together it is possible to walk over it and not feel a thing. But I saw it on close up on TV, that is one nasty piece of glass he took out his foot!!

*Philip Shudders too!*

1269. Messiah

Comment #52469 by Philip1978 on June 27, 2007 at 4:52 am

Rachel, I saw that on TV, he showed a video that his friend had been taking during his performance and he had been yelling the entire way through his act the name of the paper and the paragraph to go for, it was incredible!

Plus his walking on glass was truly amazing as well,

I am jealous you got to see that live :)

1270. God Hates the World

Comment #52427 by Philip1978 on June 27, 2007 at 2:37 am

I did not say grace, I did call for an extra glass of red wine though! Jacob's Creek Shiraz in Pizza Hut, not bad!!

I love that bible quote, how can you hide from your god to take a dump, the deity is supposed to know everything! But no, go take a dump where your enemy is most likely to tread and all is forgiven!

This reminds me of the Pope's latest wiffle about driving in Italy, making sure the Mirror Signal Manoeuvre is now started with Genuflect!

1271. In Defense of Witchcraft

Comment #52405 by Philip1978 on June 27, 2007 at 1:31 am

I would just like to add on what Yorker has said, I like MIND_REBEL and his posts and I don't want to see any of his posts thrown off into the alternative thread, I want to hear his views and not see harsh criticism being hurled at him

Yorker, I am sorry you are getting disillusioned with the site as I for one really enjoy reading your posts. Your sense of humour and intellect were something that caught my eye when I first discovered richarddawkins.net and I would be sorry not to have you on here. I understand your reasoning but nonetheless I would miss your presence if you went completely

Loved this article, you could replace those words with anything but like others have said, the faithful would turn around and say but that's not my god! Very interesting though, well done Sam

1272. God Hates the World

Comment #52380 by Philip1978 on June 26, 2007 at 11:35 pm

DrBenway, I for one took my friend out for pizza last night and didn't say my prayers before I went to bed, how is that for good? :)

1273. God Hates the World

Comment #52125 by Philip1978 on June 26, 2007 at 8:31 am

Quetzalcoatl, although this is getting very Monty Python, Life of Brain "Of course you are the Messiah, I should know, I have followed a few!" I knew immediately the coat part of your name was a sign that the Lab Coat you gave unto Billy was real and it was white!
More words with capital letters to follow later, for now I hear the call of The Kettle and Tea must be made!
Many thanks to J by the way, I appreciate your comments sir (The Eye liked my post woo hoo...this worshipping is getting out of hand, oh well, more Tea!!)

1274. God Hates the World

Comment #52069 by Philip1978 on June 26, 2007 at 4:55 am

GordonYKWong salutations,

Billy, dont worry, the great thing about worship is that you can make it up as you go along, adding capital letters to things you find more impressive as you learn The Way!! I can now simply say that Quetz sent his one and only Lab Coat to you in order for you to do Justice and your work with The Gay Flies! Praise be! The money is on its way, I have a mate who works on P3 games, will have words with him to have games sent to thee!
Cheers
Philip

1275. God Hates the World

Comment #52050 by Philip1978 on June 26, 2007 at 3:28 am

David,
I am concerned that you think I and the others on here am some group of Dawkins' Disciples and I find that odd to say the least. As much as I respect Professor Dawkins, I refuse to worship the ground he walks on, both he and I would be very uncomfortable with that kind of hero worship. I find Professor Dawkins very interesting and intelligent but I don't want to lick his boots, if I disagree with him I will do so. Intelligent he may be but I know I can play guitar better than him!!

I think your experience as a minister and your congregation might have clouded things a little here, being used to having a certain power or affinity over your congregation it may look exactly the same with the way that we are with Professor Dawkins. I can assure you that this is not the case, Richard does not connect me to my atheism like you do with your congregation to your god.

I don't have a god(...well apart from Billy and his White Lab coat of Justice and the Goddess Logicel whose husband owns The Trousers!) and neither do I need one, I simply live on this earth and I am interested in what goes on on it. The video is offensive, completely right there, but now I know that my view of the Phelps family does not need to change, they are fantastically deluded and they shouldn't treat their kids like that, why are you so anti me watching this video?

Chin up, worse could happen believe me,
take care
Philip

1276. Doctors' beliefs can hinder patient care

Comment #52033 by Philip1978 on June 26, 2007 at 1:46 am

Corylus many thanks for your kind words, I really appreciate it

I raise my glass to you whilst I sink towards that spot under the table that is becoming increasingly more comfortable as the drink wonders on!

Philip

1277. Doctors' beliefs can hinder patient care

Comment #51803 by Philip1978 on June 25, 2007 at 4:40 am

Kamisama,

Very interesting point, my only response is that these doctors should have thought about where they wanted to work in order that they could do their best work. If they are uncomfortable in encountering situations like this, why bother signing up for it?

David, can I please ask you to stop using the word fundamentalist, I have asked before and I will ask again. None of us here are fundamentalists for the one reason that no matter how passionate we are about issues like this, we can change our minds with better evidence provided. I know some responses are more passionate than others but I think you have got it wrong and I would like you to stop. I think the reason why people are so angry here is the needless distress inflicted on people who have suffered greatly.

My friend was raped when I was at university and I can tell you its the most horrifying thing I have ever been told. My heart is still broken by the fact that I lost the group she was with that night and I had to go home, I don't blame myself but there will always be that part of me that thinks I could have been at that club and got her home safely.

The insult in these stories is that instead of help and advice they were made to feel worse in what I would describe as one of the most psychologically terrifying and painful event anybody could witness or be part of. People have a lot of trust in doctors and to be let down in this way is horrible.

You are right in saying this a complicated situation but please understand where I am coming from on this, I am not being angry, fundamentalist or clinging to my atheism to talk my way out of this. I type this as someone who has witnessed what happened to someone after the event and I that all I can do now is be there for them.

Doctors should be more professional than what is described above, people should not suffer on behalf of another's religion

1278. In the name of the Father

Comment #51801 by Philip1978 on June 25, 2007 at 3:20 am

But how is it that the majority of the world's great philosophers, composers, scholars, artists and poets have been believers, often of a very devout kind?

Right, admit it Professor Dawkins, the devil secretly helped you write your book didn't he! Then you asked him to help Mr Hitchens!

1279. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51296 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 8:18 am

Erm Quetz, they actually do, I remember reading something about some religious pillocks nailing themselves up to express their love of christ at easter time, I heard one guy goes back for more each year!

Some artists do it as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Horsley

1280. 'Purity' ring case in High Court

Comment #51291 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 8:10 am

konquererz I understand what you are saying but I wore a school uniform all my life and I really don't see the difference between that and wearing a suit to work if the company requires it. I completely agree with you that kids should be able to express themselves and that they do already, the My Chemical Romance and Muse concerts I have been to this year alone have shown me that kids are expressing themselves in all ways possible. The uniform to me was simply something that said I go this school and I was rather proud of it. A bit like when I represented my school at sports, I wore something that said I play for this school. I could always take the uniform off to go out after school and wear what I wanted. It was simply just in school, like work, I had to wear something they asked me too. Saying that it does cost a bloody fortune!!

I agree with the idea this is simply a stupid publicity stunt for her dad's religion, the ring is superfluous to the whole thing and its a waste of tax payers money when it could be put to much better use improving schools so they can teach in proper classrooms and have access to the right equipment so the kids can learn something, simple as that

1281. An Inquisition in science's name

Comment #51261 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 6:48 am

George Carlin, good man and very funny,I laughed heavily about the X-rated version of Little Red Riding hood, brilliant, cheers Billy!

1282. An Inquisition in science's name

Comment #51219 by Philip1978 on June 22, 2007 at 1:48 am

"atheism is the only religion supported by science"

Bizzaro,I am sorry to be a bit of a pedant but please be a good chap and don't refer to Atheism as a religion, its not.
Cheers,
Philip

1283. Rushdie knighted in honours list

Comment #51037 by Philip1978 on June 21, 2007 at 8:16 am

Sargeist you have to understand this British attitude works when our football/cricket/rugby/tennis team gets the most horrible drubbing. We simply shrug our shoulders, say "bravo!" to the opposing team for playing well, slag off our team for being rubbish for a couple of weeks and then get right back behind them the next game, confident in their abilities. Such optimism is commendable! I call it the Tim Henman syndrome, every bloody year people still yell for the poor boy but every year he gets his arse kicked despite beating all the people he loses against abroad!! hehehe

Tally bally ho! More Tea I say!

1284. Bush Vetoes Measure on Stem Cell Research

Comment #51029 by Philip1978 on June 21, 2007 at 7:45 am

Michael P, don't be ashamed to be American, just be deeply ashamed of Bush and his pathetic religious beliefs

1285. Peanut Butter, The Atheist's Nightmare!

Comment #51018 by Philip1978 on June 21, 2007 at 5:39 am

TacklingDummy I would be upset if you didnt post your satire, please go ahead!

1286. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #50860 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 8:26 am

I really enjoyed that, good video.

Professor Dawkins well done on your book, it has raised my conciousness and it, among the other books I read from reading yours, has encouraged me to look at things differently. I have far to go still but I am learning even at 28 hehe! This site is also a great knowledge raiser, I have communicated with some amazing people and they have taught me many wonderful things. Thanks to you all!

J, your comments on David's site are brilliant, I am enjoying following it a lot! What wine are you drinking, I could do with some!!
cheers,

Philip Priestley

1287. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50823 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 5:09 am

Fides,
Sorry about leading the thread off track completely, I know you were talking about something else and my intention was to let others respond to you

Concerning the guidelines actually I agree with most of it, no road rage, drink driving, respecting speed limits, driving under the influence etc. I am glad he is speaking out about about all that

The only things I have problems with is:

Performing the sign of the cross before you leave, what exactly does that do? Moving your hand in front of you and saying a few Latin words is not the best way of improving your driving or lessening the chances of you having an accident. Is god going to get upset with you for not doing it?

Using the car as a place of sin? This rule is highly ambiguous because technically which sin are we really talking about here? Driving to work on a Sunday? Ok, I will take a wild guess and say its sex he is talking about, (puerile jokes aside- like doing it when its in motion and watching out for the gear stick if in the passenger seat, sorry couldn't resist!)Why is sex such a sin in the eyes of the lord? I have always had issues with the Catholic doctrines on contraception and consensual sex between two adults. Having sex in a car is illegal in public areas, fine by me. (just don't get caught!) This attitude about demonising sex really doesn't wash with me, from what is a beautiful and amazing experience between two consenting adults is then deemed wrong and bad. So much so that abstinence as advocated instead of being careful. The AIDS epidemic could be slowed dramatically through condom use, but no the Pope is against contraception so millions die in Africa by being told its sinful and in some cases telling folk that condoms actually pass on AIDS! People I know of have committed suicide because of their sexuality or that they have had sex and can't deal with the guilt heaped upon them by the church and their families. Sex is not a sin, miss-educating people about it is far worse, who cares if its in the car!

If you want to continue with your original thread questions first I would be happy to discuss this at another time if you want to, thanks for your time anyway,
Philip

1288. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50809 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 3:40 am

fides_et_ratio

Sorry, I don't recall what the Pope had to say about road signs hehehehehe!

1289. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50796 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 2:35 am

Speaking of Catholicism, the pope has just issued a 36 page guideline for the "Pastoral care of the Road!"
So, all you Catholics out there, don't you dare use your car as "an object of personal glorification" and also perform the sign of the cross before you head out or god will be very angry!

Thinking about it, only now it has been revealed that you should genuflect before you head out, have you all been sinning up until now? Isn't god sneaky, that wasn't in the bible!!

1290. Atheists: stand up and be counted

Comment #50788 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 1:46 am

fides_et_ratio

You said that you would pray you had humility, why not simply have humility if you think you need it?

Sorry, nit picking today but wanted to get involved!:)

1291. Debate between Sam Harris and Chris Hedges

Comment #50775 by Philip1978 on June 20, 2007 at 12:42 am

TedWak
Interesting post as ever, just wanted to add my own slant on why some muslims turn to terrorism and martyrdom
A good friend of mine told me that here in England you have these men who have grown up in a strict muslim family where they are forbidden to drink, have sex, do drugs etc They suddenly become very aware whilst living amongst the infidels that they are missing out on it all. So they rebel for a while, start getting up to all sorts, they chase women, drink and some get into the drugs scene. Soon it all becomes too much, having alienated themselves from their family and suffering the lifestyle they have been leading it all seems to cave in. Psychologically messed up and lost they are easy targets for extremist groups who convince them of the wonderful world of martyrdom and the paradise that awaits them in the afterlife.

That's just one example but I would say the indoctrination to become a martyr or terrorist is because of the psychological mess they get themselves into as caused by their religion. As Sam has mentioned in the past, their religion is supposed to be the right way to live because the Koran is the inerrant word of their god. Yet they see the western countries living in opulence in comparison to the 14th Century lifestyle they have been living in. Allah couldn't possibly be wrong so the infidels are sinning therefore they are a threat to the muslim way of life and Allah rewards those who fight for His cause.

In the words of Monty Python in Life of Brian "Don't worry, 'e's e's mmmmmmmad sir!"

1292. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #50133 by Philip1978 on June 15, 2007 at 7:49 am

newatheist a pint for the road sir?

Afterlife? I was thinking more of an apres vie!

1293. The Benny Hinn Report

Comment #50117 by Philip1978 on June 15, 2007 at 6:03 am

I wonder if he locks up all the swings and stops people driving before his shows start...

1294. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #50101 by Philip1978 on June 15, 2007 at 4:55 am

Downunder, very interesting and informative post, I enjoyed reading that a lot, thank you

Dianelos, I have pondered and pondered upon what you have said and I have come up with a conclusion, I nicked it off Douglas Adams again I am afraid but it makes my argument sound more fancy!! Its basically when he asks why people can't look at the beautiful garden without wanting the fairies to be there as well. Plus that Tv man story I put in my last post makes sense here as well

I understand more about what you think God is to you but I can't grasp why you would need a God to explain things that happen regardless of the importance of his/hers/its involvement. Take the TV man, everything he needs to know about the working of the TV has been shown to him and explained to him. His first assumption that tiny men are zooming around in the background is made irrelevant when the reality is explained to him. So after he is told everything he clings on to the thought that there must be SOME little men there as if the little men are still an essential part of the working order of the TV. Why does he need the little men?

The garden or even the universe is a mind bogglingly beautiful place, it really is. Not only is the stuff we do know about is beautiful but the stuff we do not know about and still have yet to discover is also as amazing. So there you have it and then you want to add something extra on it, as if it is not enough God has to be at the start of it all. I am not saying you don't have an appreciation of all that is beautiful etc but why and how does God fit into all this? Everything is still there if you remove him/her/it from the equation. The unexplainable is simply waiting to be explained, a God simply can't be the answer without being able to explain how he/she/it got there to do it.

The worldview that you are looking at can be seen with or without a God, God really doesn't need to be there to fulfil anything, its all there already

I hope that makes sense, I appreciate you have a lot to answer, please answer them first because I am sure I am repeating half of what the others are saying anyway but if you still feel like it I would be glad to offer other quotes from people who are far better explaining things than I hehe!

Cheers, Philip

1295. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49941 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 7:34 am

Cheers tons Billy, most useful, I have come to the conclusion that Luke and Matthew must have had a heated discussion in a bar after drinking too much Egyptian imported beer(the 2500 year old recipe adds that extra kick!) and huffed off to write their own versions!

I used the word "challenge" when referring to young Wee Flea as a sort of euphemism, he used very much the same happy tone with me as he did with you in that link. There is no wonder David ran off crying, we seem to have kicked his arse so hard the bruising has formed itself into a rather amusing shade of tartan!

Right, I am off to investigate even more, just heard some scurrilous rumour there were 6 Jesus shaped people hanging around in Jerusalem around that period each having their own unique yet rather sticky end with the Rwomans (no, Romans! STWIKE HIM!)

Many thanks again, Philip

1296. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49919 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 5:13 am

I could pretend to believe in god if you like!!

I only used the "w" word (apologies for my foul language!) because I see one of you has already had to resort to cold turkey from over posting!!

I have started to read a book by Kenneth Humprheys, Jesus Never Existed and it has some amazing facts in it but I don't simply want take his word for it. I just wanted to check my Herods as there might have been more than one, he did after all have about 10 wives and about 15 sons in his lifetime! (Lazy bugger!)
I was also challenged by David Robertson on another thread about the Roman Emperor Constantine and I have decided to go on a knowledge quest to find out the goings on in the Synod or Council of Nicaea in 325AD. Having done medieval history from about 1066 onwards I find all this stuff so very interesting.

Having said all this, I have just looked up the bible reference and then I was asked which bible translation I wanted:
* 1550 Stephanus New Testament (BibleGateway)
* 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (BibleGateway)
* 1894 Scrivener New Testament (BibleGateway)
* 1934 Vietnamese Bible (BibleGateway)
* 21st Century King James Version (BibleGateway)
* Albanian Bible (BibleGateway)
* American Standard Version (BibleGateway)
* Amplified Bible (BibleGateway)
* Ang Salita ng Diyos (BibleGateway)
* Arabic Life Application Bible (BibleGateway)
* BibleBrowser.com
* BibleCommenter.com (BibleBrowser)
* Biblia Sacra Vulgata (BibleGateway)
* Biblia Tysiaclecia (BibleGateway)
* Biblia en Lenguaje Sencillo (BibleGateway)
* Bulgarian Bible (BibleGateway)
* Castillian (BibleGateway)
* Chinese Union Version (BibleGateway)
* Conferenza Episcopale Italiana (BibleGateway)
* Contemporary English Version (BibleGateway)
* Croatian Bible (BibleGateway)
* Darby Translation (BibleGateway)
* Det Norsk Bibelselskap 1930 (BibleGateway)
* Dette er Biblen p�.¥ dansk (BibleGateway)
* Dios Habla Hoy (BibleGateway)
* Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (BibleGateway)
* English Standard Version (BibleGateway)
* Greek audio of New Testament (greeklatinaudio.com)
* Haitian Creole Version (BibleGateway)
* Het Boek (BibleGateway)
* Hiligaynon Bible (BibleGateway)
* Holman Christian Standard Bible (BibleGateway)
* Hungarian K�.¡roli (BibleGateway)
* Icelandic Bible (BibleGateway)
* Il Nuovo Testamento in Lingua Moderna (BibleGateway)
* João Ferreira de Almeida Atualizada (BibleGateway)
* King James Version (BibleGateway)
* Korean Bible (BibleGateway)
* La Bible du Semeur (BibleGateway)
* La Biblia de las Américas (BibleGateway)
* La Nuaova Diodati (BibleGateway)
* Latin audio of New Testament (greeklatinaudio.com)
* Levande Bibeln (BibleGateway)
* Louis Segond (BibleGateway)
* Luther Bibel 1545 (BibleGateway)
* Maori Bible (BibleGateway)
* New American Bible (USCCB)
* New American Standard Bible (BibleGateway)
* New International Reader's Version (BibleGateway)
* New International Version (BibleGateway)
* New International Version - UK (BibleGateway)
* New King James Version (BibleGateway)
* New Life Version (BibleGateway)
* New Living Translation (BibleGateway)
* New Revised Standard Version (Oremus)
* Nova Versão Internacional (BibleGateway)
* Nueva Versión Internacional (BibleGateway)
* Nádej pre kazdého (BibleGateway)
* O Livro (BibleGateway)
* Online Parallel Bible (bible.cc)
* Reimer 2001 (BibleGateway)
* Reina-Valera 1960 (BibleGateway)
* Reina-Valera 1995 (BibleGateway)
* Reina-Valera Antigua (BibleGateway)
* Romanian (BibleGateway)
* Romanian Cornilescu Version (BibleGateway)
* Russian Synodal Version (BibleGateway)
* ScriptureText.com multilingual (BibleBrowser)
* Slovo Zhizny (BibleGateway)
* Slovo na cestu (BibleGateway)
* Svenska 1917 (BibleGateway)
* Swahili New Testament (BibleGateway)
* The Message (BibleGateway)
* Worldwide English (New Testament) (BibleGateway)
* Wycliffe New Testament (BibleGateway)
* Young's Literal Translation (BibleGateway)
Bloody hell, there are a couple or so aren't there!

Right, K.B.O (Winston Churchill phrase Keep Buggering On!) catch you later,

Philip

1297. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49893 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 3:18 am

Quetzalcoatl I know what you mean, I keep getting told by religious people god moves in mysterious ways, if you need more mysterious than that well, good luck to you hehehehehe!
As for my back pain, how dare they....oh no wait, on the Blasphemy Challenge post I told the Holy Ghost to go and do something most obscene with a prize winning leek... :)

1298. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49891 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 3:11 am

Ah, is that something very much closer to being more like the Einstein type of god then?

Cor an actual answer! Forgive my surprise, its just I have asked others on this site many a time and then only answer I got was something closely akin to "Its Him, don't argue!" (David, Devolved and Bizzaro please take note here!), please ignore the rest of the wiffle, I forgot you were so busy but I thank you for a well put answer, I will give this one some thought before I post again. I still have problems with the whole god idea but want to think about my next answer, cheers tons,

Philip

1299. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #49888 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 2:53 am

Billy, yes it has happened to me a couple of times, I am beginning to wonder if Devolved's or David's god is at work here! I mean, David's god gave me back pain last week!

1300. The Benny Hinn Report

Comment #49877 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 2:09 am

room101

You have a good point there but I would suggest you never get tired of these people, like Arthur Dent in the Hitchhikers Guide, I am willing to see who will rust first!!