1301. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49871 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 1:41 am

Dianelos Georgoudis
As if you haven't got enough to read you poor chap, I want you to read this when you can, it is a quote from my favourite author, Douglas Adams. I am not implying I think you an idiot, far from it, you have posted some amazing arguments, but I think it kind of sums up the difficulties I am having expressing to you what I posted earlier. I hope you enjoy it, take care, Philip

A man didn't understand how televisions
work, and was convinced that there must be lots of little men inside the box manipulating images at high speed. An engineer explained to him about
high frequency modulations of the electromagnetic spectrum, about transmitters and receivers, about amplifiers and cathode ray tubes, about scan lines moving across and down a phosphorescent screen. The man listened to the engineer with careful attention, nodding his head at every step of the argument. At the end he pronounced himself satisfied. He really did now understand how televisions work. "But I expect there are just a few little men in there, aren't there?"

1302. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49862 by Philip1978 on June 14, 2007 at 12:43 am

Chaps, I have a few quick questions, I know you guys are still working hard on this so I will be kind!

King Herod, was he the king who said all first born should be slaughtered in order that his reign be longer and no other claimants could have it and thus the reason Joseph and Mary hot footed it elsewhere to have baby J? I was reading somewhere he died in 4 BC and baby J was born around 3 or 4 AD, (depending on who you ask),would the law have still been in place? My bible knowledge is rubbish but I am sure Herod was mentioned in the same time that baby J was born, am I right?

Keep up the good work, am enjoying this thread immensely,
Philip

1303. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49719 by Philip1978 on June 13, 2007 at 6:24 am

Dianelos Georgoudis
I still don't understand, why the anthropomorphism?

Its all very well saying things happen but I cannot for the life of me understand how your god comes into all this.

Since your god cannot be detected by anything except "faith" (belief without evidence) doesn't that even prod you into thinking something is wrong here. I don't think you are a total looney, well possibly a bit of a one but no more so than I!! Is it possible that perhaps humans invented their gods rather than the other way around. That is the only way I can see how your god can do the things he does, you imagine him/her/it to be able to (I use the words "your god" because I think David Robertsons, Devolved and Bizzaro Dawkin's descriptions of their god will be different from yours)

Still, I also have to ask again, are you sure its not Thor providing your thought processes? It might as well be Elvis, its equally weird and I cannot understand why it has to be your god.

I am totally confused, I think I need more tea!
Cheers,
Philip

1304. Baptists Warned About Islam, Atheism

Comment #49706 by Philip1978 on June 13, 2007 at 3:49 am

I am still waiting for David to realise the importance of knowing where his towel is rather than his god, towels are so much more useful!

1305. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #49479 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 4:23 am

Billy & Quetz
I am going make a wild guess here and say that the spectacular post J put on his website (the link is in the Winston Debate thread) might have almost changed a few things, I am only making galactic sized assumptions here, obviously I would need David to comment about it of course before I go any further

Great Interview, enjoyed that tons

1306. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49464 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 3:05 am

Logicel, I definitely agree with you there, oh Great One whose husband owns The Trousers!

RAamen to that BMMcArdle!

1307. The Benny Hinn Report

Comment #49441 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 1:31 am

I would have put the buckets to better use, I would have vomited in them!

1308. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49437 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 1:11 am

Quetzalcoatl
I have indeed seen Mr Brown at work, I think one of the weirdest was when he got a room full of atheists and turned them into believers in about an hour!

1309. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #49432 by Philip1978 on June 12, 2007 at 12:45 am

Dianelos Georgoudis

Very interesting post, I enjoyed reading that

One thing I would like to ask is which god are you talking about? In all seriousness is it Allah, The Protestant God, The Catholic God, David Robertson's God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Odin? All of these gods could be justifiable in explaining the way your brain produces conciousness.

I simply can't see why a god would have to fit into all this. Neurology and science may indeed come up with the answer one day but then anthropomorphising that explanation into a god makes no sense to me.

I don't know if you have heard of him but there is a chap called Derran Brown, look him up on utube, he can plant ideas into people's heads and make them believe and think things they would never have contemplated before. Now is Mr Brown a god? No, he is a human being, a very clever psychologist who is able to read people and mess with their minds a little simply by the power of suggestion. I would not call what he does to the brains of his audience anything to do with your god or the other plethora of others people have created, the explanation is far more simple than that.

One thing I would suggest is go to the Andrew Sullivan/Sam Harris debate on this site you can find it on the home page in the grey area for a good explanation by Sam on how the mind can perceive things and how the brain translates information that it receives.

Right, my mind has just told me I would very much like a cup of tea and I don't think I will argue with it! Catch you later,

Philip

1310. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #49238 by Philip1978 on June 11, 2007 at 5:50 am

TedWak
Thanks a lot for your help, I appreciate it

Bizarro, I was on the wrong track there, made a bit of a fool of myself so apologies there, I will learn to argue properly one day by actually arguing about the right subject! :)

But, whilst on the subject, I read about 1st communion and it basically is along the same lines as to what I was wiffling about, I still see it as basically telling a kid who cannot question back about a life changing event, it is very similar to my Communist argument in my last post and would still like to hear your views about it, cheers,

Philip

1311. Dobson and John MacArthur fantasize about the downfall of America

Comment #49236 by Philip1978 on June 11, 2007 at 5:32 am

Jason33,
Hehehe don't worry mate, I remember a while back on one post I had the most hideous go at someone who I thought was being utterly horrible, I was convinced I was right and I read it again and again, only to be told by Professor Dawkins that I had got it wrong, I still blush even now!

I really do think the religious are getting more and more depressed as time wonders on, all this "God is angry with us" is not doing them any favours!

1312. House Votes to Expand Stem Cell Research

Comment #48513 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 8:14 am

Can they also pass a law so that if President Bush is so upset about doing damage to 150 cells of almost potential human being he is not allowed to scratch his nose or swat flies (thanks Sam Harris!)

What a hypocrite, he has no qualms about sending men and women off to die and kill others yet when it comes to live saving research that involves potential humans he is dead against it. The mind doth forever boggle!

1313. In Saudi Arabia, a view from behind the veil

Comment #48510 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 8:07 am

Yeesh,
Ok, for all you guys who dont know about Marks & Spencers, it is a sort of clothes store/supermarket. They make male y fronts which have a bit of a sad status over here in England, highly unsexy! I can see them making laws against showing them but honestly, showing your pants off if they are not smelly/filthy etc why not? Is this another form of uncontrollable lust in Virginia?

Hehehe, I remember reading a Stephen Fry book, I think its called The Liar, I recommend it to all. A character gets caught by the school matron nude sunbathing, she tells him to cover up so he promptly thanks her and puts on his sun glasses! hehehe!

1314. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #48494 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 7:15 am

"Man is certainly stark raving mad. He cannot make a worm, yet he makes gods by the dozens."
Michel de Montaigne

I can't help but almost agree with this chap, I say almost, if Billy, may his White Lab Coat bring Justice to us all, can create Gay Fruit Flies I am sure worms are well within his grasp!

1315. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #48468 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 4:46 am

Cheers David,

I didn't know it was referred to as the Synod, everything I have read so far has been calling it the Council of Nicaea, the one I was referring to in my last post was the 1st ever one.

For now I want to stick with this one issue, I want to ask more later if you are interested but here goes. I think my only question about what went on was that do you think it was god inspiring these men to debate this issue or do you think it was more of a chance for Constantine to see if he could reconcile the differences affecting the Romans at that time?

Arius and his rival were heavily influencing the situation in Europe when they were arguing over what or who Jesus actually was. I agree with what you said about keeping the knowledge of the bible going but I simply don't see it as your god having much influence on the outcome and they are talking about Him and His son here. The outcome of this 1st meeting simply shows Constantine saying Jesus is "of one substance" after being heavily influenced by Ossius the Spaniard. Then as Ossius falling out of favour he reneges on this and invites Arius back and being buried an Arian. I feel it sends out a really confusing message about Jesus and it helps Constantine and the Roman empire keep its tenuous grip over the countries previously conquered.

Over all of it I rather feel this shows that men have always controlled what religions mean and how they work, I really don't see god having any influence over any of it, even over the writing of the bible. I think this is the point I have been attempting to make but haven't made a good enough explanation of it. Here are men voting on Jesus's divinity and it confuses me why it has to be so complex or do you think that is the problem with free will and that man has simply garbled things up a little?

One thing I would like to also ask is that could you recommended any books I could get hold of on this period of history? Or simply expand on your last post, offer your view on the event itself, either would be fun and interesting.

See, I am in a good mood today, I wont froth at you today! :)

1316. The planet hunters

Comment #48433 by Philip1978 on June 8, 2007 at 12:29 am

James, I think you are beginning to understand me a little better, my arguments are mostly completely daft and I would be worried if they were not!!hehehe

I keep reading stuff in strange books and being told odd things like Australia exports, or has exported in the past, camels and sand to Saudi Arabia! I like to test them out and see where it gets me, if I can't learn anything I don't see myself getting anything out of all this. I know I have a long way to go but I don't mind being wrong about things only to have it explained properly later.

Hmm, the star business, (more wiffle, watch out!) didn't the Egyptians have a good grasp of astronomy about 2500 years earlier? Ok, we are talking about shepherds here as well but the Wise men might have been reasonably wise enough to know basic astronomy, but as you say the word for star alone is a bit of a bugger there! Plus their complete lack of Global Positioning equipment, hulking great big building sized telescopes and googlemaps in those days tells me they simply went with what they had!!

I am already reading Cristopher Hitchens and acquired a book by Kenneth Humprheys about the non-existence of Jesus, so I might go look at them first before I badger your good self with more!

Take care,

Philip

1317. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #48431 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 11:51 pm

TedWak

Hmm have I got that confused with the sinning bit, where now she is 7 years old she is a sinner in the eyes of god? If so I think that would be even worse than simply being told "Right, that's it, you're a Catholic"! But I think if I got the above wrong I should apologise to Bizzaro et all and go and do some proper research instead of frothing about something I obviously need to know more about.

Thing is, it was about 2 or 3 weeks ago and I was chatting to the mother, sister and the other girl who worked with the company for a while about it, I am absolutely certain they all said it was her confirmation as a Catholic. Odd, I will investigate and see if I got it wrong.

1318. My Road to Atheism, What Took Me So Long and The Aftermath

Comment #48260 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 8:01 am

James,
I really don't know if this helps, but my uncle is as much of an atheist as I am, my aunt who he has been married to for 40 years is a Catholic to the heart. I know next to nothing about how to deal with this from my own experiences and I don't know you asides from your posts but the impression I get is that you love your wife and kids and I think that is the most important thing to hold on to. I think what these guys are telling you is right, be careful and calm about it and keep up the good work you are doing. I really hope it all works for you, there is no reason why it can't work, take care
Philip

1319. Here Comes the Fourth Musketeer.

Comment #48247 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 7:36 am

I went to Waterstones book shop, do you have that chain up there in the Glens?

1320. Don't Know Much Biology

Comment #48245 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 7:32 am

pewkatchoo I am a simple English lad, you can tell by the vacant look in my picture, some things simply fly past and I don't see them!
Am having trouble accessing your site too, firefox is misbehaving today!

1321. Here Comes the Fourth Musketeer.

Comment #48243 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 7:25 am

Just picked the book up yesterday, very very interesting but sometimes he does wonder off on tangents, highly interesting tangents but it is a bit muddled. Enjoying it tons though, bravo Mr Hitchens

1322. Don't Know Much Biology

Comment #48230 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 6:33 am

pewkatchoo, sorry, I don't like to guess countries, I cant hear your accent when you type hehehehe!

I don't want to shout about politics too much, I know what I am up against here and I don't mean to offend in anyway...except of course if its religion, then you lot are all fair game hehehe!!

1323. Don't Know Much Biology

Comment #48212 by Philip1978 on June 7, 2007 at 4:01 am

pewkatchoo
Think about what horrors my fellow country folk and I will have to face when the next election happens in England. The party I want to vote for has recently been toying with the creationism in schools stuff and the other party's are either a bunch of bLiars or simply awful. I want to get this guy over to explain a few things, Americans get to see him first, there need is slightly more pressing at the moment!!

1324. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #48169 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 11:52 pm

Bizzaro, I do actually happen to know this woman and her family and I can firmly say, without exaggeration, that if this little girl moves faiths or goes the atheist route she will be roasted. Don't get me wrong, I am sure you had a great childhood and everything but I can't stomach it when families can be this strict

I think the thing that keeps me questioning this behaviour is how do you know this 7 year old girl wants to be a Catholic? I still don't understand how anyone can justify it that they decided when she was a baby to be baptised and then at 7 told she was definitely a Catholic, why not wait until later and go through all of this? Why not when she has reached a mature age can she not decide for herself that she wants to be dunked in water and have strange Latin words spoken to her? Why can't she decide for herself if she wants to go further and go to a priest for confirmation? This is all done before she has an opinion on anything and that's what I find wrong. This is a life changing decision, it affects the outcome of how people live and I am not comfortable with simply telling a kid they are Catholics when they don't know what one is.

Imagine your parents when you were a baby or at 7 getting a certificate or something confirming you as a Marxist or Communist and that's the politics you will adhere to the rest of your life. You would be far too young but there you are immersed in a world that you don't understand and people are telling you all sorts of things about a guy called Lenin etc. Wouldn't you think that just a little strange? I bet you have your own ideas about politics now don't you? You grew up and learned about the different choices possibly in school, ok from your parents as well probably, but my point is you grew up to know what you wanted to do in that area.
Why can't you do that with religion?

1325. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47992 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 8:07 am

You find it disturbing? I don't actually remember doing it! My mind is obviously so psychologically damaged and scarred it doesn't want to, it or the booze did me a great favour! I just woke up in the morning and she was there saying how great I was that night! Hows that for disturbing!

Thinking about it I have said some rather disparaging things about Satan, Limbo and David's god, I hoping they keep me immortal just cos they can't decide what to do with me!

1326. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47984 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 7:49 am

Quetzalcoatl , I once got drunk and accidentally slept with the female equivalent of Jar Jar Binks, that's sure enough to keep me well and truly gnashing my teeth for eternity. God will take one look at me and simply say "Time share is simply not an option for this idiot, Satan, here have this"!!

1327. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47972 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 7:04 am

I have a theory on that, David's god pre-determined everything, unfortunately like most DIY there was a bit left over he didn't know what to do with it so he invented sin. I am now reckoning heaven can only hold so many souls and he was worried the place could well fill up before the Rapture. So he designs some of us gay, some of us to not believe in him etc to tip the balance!

1328. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47960 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 6:25 am

My goodness, could it be that I have offended David enough that I am now not one of the chosen few he prevaricates with?

41 messages, pull your finger out David I want answers hehehehehe! Only kidding, when you have time old chap, I hope you read that Constantine thing, I am sorry I haven't had time to update my learning but I am really interested to hear your version of the events leading up to and during 325 AD.

oh and hello everyone, finally got my photo up and running, I love Microsoft Paint!

1329. Sen. Clinton: Faith got me through marital strife

Comment #47908 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 2:44 am

I thought June wasn't behaving itself here in England but obviously religious people always go one further every time! Why wear black trousers for goodness sake, its so dreary!

I wish to offer my heartiest congratulations to your husband, I can see the hoopy frood clearly knows where his towel is! I am not usually inclined to encourage religious practises but on this occasion I can see your husband is a man of true conviction and honesty.

Don't be jealous of the cats, I am sure there are times when his lap is free!

From his example I see there is actually hope out there for me yet! If I can find myself an equally wonderful and understanding lady who is prepared to cope with such wisdom and intellect then surely there is someone out there for me too, will just have to keep looking! :)

1330. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #47898 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 1:55 am

Bizzaro,
I have a woman in my office who has a little 7 year old girl who has just been confirmed as a catholic, now I think that is definitely child abuse because there is no way a 7 year old girl can make her mind up as to whether or not she wants to be a catholic. That has been decided by her mother and her family and she was given no choice to back out of it. I was speaking to a girl in my office who knows her well and asked her the same question, how does she know she wants to be a catholic and the answer I got will never leave me, "she can always leave it later if she wants to".

I thought about it and I reached the conclusion that if she did decide to follow another faith or go the atheist route her whole family would shun her and make her feel terrible. You look at some the post on here from the ex mormon and others who have given up their faith only to be shunned by family and whole communities.

How on earth you can then justify telling that little 7 year old girl, without her permission, that she is a catholic and then when the time comes, when she is ready to think about such things, if she decides to go another way, persecute her for it is beyond me. That's really setting her up for a huge psychological fall and its evil.

I am all for learning about mythology and religion, I find it fascinating. I studied the Greek legends a bit, I have studied medieval history in Europe and found out a load about the different faiths but I always was allowed to look at it objectively. I knew about them but it was not forced down my neck. In telling me what Fredrick the 2nd of Germany believed in and what Odysseus prayed to I learned something about their religions instead of having to believe in it all as well.

Should I have taken up Odysseus's slant on things and started sacrificing to Athena?

1331. Sen. Clinton: Faith got me through marital strife

Comment #47895 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 1:08 am

Logicel, thank you for that post, I think you have captured it brilliantly. It is just life isn't it!

Speaking of which, yet changing the subject totally and being my usual silly self, how is your husband and his trousers? Its bloody cold where I am sitting, June is not behaving itself in the slightest!

1332. The planet hunters

Comment #47889 by Philip1978 on June 6, 2007 at 12:31 am

James, sorry, I think you are right, I did a bit more reading and found that somewhere in Issiah in the bible it says something about a spherical earth and the 1st Century historian Pliny the Elder also refers to a spherical earth too. I think this is more of a medieval theory that cropped up so no points there for Philip, I admit I got that one wrong unless there is something in the bible actually saying so! (Bloody history students think they know everything! :)) I tend to use the 6000 year argument for the fact that some people take the bible as being the inerrant word of their god. If the bible is to be taken this way then the earth would have to be 6000 years old, about the time people were playing with glue.

If you want a good bible inaccuracy you could go for this one that I read recently, the star of Bethlehem would have had the wise men walking around in a giant circle had they been following it. Due to the Earth's rotation the stars appear to do this so following it would have been a bit silly to say the least. Ok if people want to be picky they could go for comet theory but I definitely remember it being a star in the bible.

Or perhaps the Garden of Gethsemane where Jesus was having a last minute chat with his dad in Mark 14.36,41 and everyone was asleep, so who recorded it all?

Got this all from http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm if you want to take a read, tell me what you think. I know its only one site but I would simply like to hear yours and others opinions about it, cheers,

Philip

1333. Sen. Clinton: Faith got me through marital strife

Comment #47886 by Philip1978 on June 5, 2007 at 11:59 pm

Roy_H lets hope she used one of the heavier editions!
Prieten and all Americans, I wish you the best of luck in voting, I would not have a clue! Then again I don't have a clue who to vote for over here in England either!
I will never understand how faith can get people through tragedy, it reminds me so much like Stockholm Syndrome in the way their god can keep kicking them only for them to say how much they love him.

1334. The planet hunters

Comment #47666 by Philip1978 on June 5, 2007 at 8:24 am

sgr79 and James,
Apologies, I was too busy frothing at Bizzaro and not backing up my statements, kind of monkey I am sometimes, really must explain.

I read somewhere, cant remember for sure so apologies for inaccuracies. I think during Greek times the world was considered to be flat and this passed on to the Babylonians. They had some theory that the world was flat with a dome shaped filament over the top to let the weather in. Some have said this may have been the ideology of those who wrote the bible, I will have to rummage a bit more to find out when I have time but I hope that adds a bit more to the debate.

Cheers, Philip

1335. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47605 by Philip1978 on June 5, 2007 at 4:01 am

Good Grief, an estimated 32.9 million versus 10 that Satan was asked to do in God's name, poor old Satan!

Reminds me of Simon Magus in the bible, caught doing the same tricks as big J and then got stoned to death for doing it. His character is then vilified into some greedy little man all because he could do everything big J could! Tis where we get Simony from, I'll warrant he did nowt wrong as well as dear old Satan!

1336. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47589 by Philip1978 on June 5, 2007 at 3:17 am

Its ok, David's god may have caused my back pain but the devil allowed Ibuprofen to be invented and stuck into Boots chemists. You can tell the devil made it cos it makes me feel better whilst doing other organs like my liver and heart not as much good!!

You will notice when the canon isn't right, the religious seem to then point and fire it at those who questioned them arf arf!

1337. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47562 by Philip1978 on June 5, 2007 at 1:08 am

Ouch, seems David didn't like what I have been saying and his god has given me a bad back as of yesterday! So in my pain and suffering I cannot make it to the library to go do more research on this. However, I have been thinking about this and I have decided that no matter where I get my info from he will dismiss it all anyway. So just for the rest of you here is a little amusement about The Council of Nicaea

Ok, setting the scene between the 4th and 6th Centuries The Arians and The Catholics were having a civil war, the reason? The Arians were saying that Jesus was a bit less Divine than his dad, a subordinate and not quite as amazing. Arius the leader is quoted to have said

"A creation is less than its creator. The Son is less than the Father that 'begot' him. In the Beginning was the Creator God and the Son did not exist."

Then you have a chap called Athanasius, Arius's political rival, he was more of a belief and experience of "Divine Mystery" kind of chap, none of this fluffy nonsense about subordinates for him

So here you have a situation whereby there was not a proper defined job status for Jesus and people were arguing and killing each other over this lack of proper Orthodoxy, (flare of trumpets, drum roll...) in steps Emperor Constantine

He is fed up with the likes of Arius and Athanasius mucking up his dream of a United Christian Europe (I swear this is Tony bLiar in a previous life hehehe!) In 325AD he demands this thing be settled once and for all over this mere "matter of words"(He wrote letters to the above pleading with them to shut up in 324)

He gathers as many "holy" men as he possibly could and they all met up in Nicaea to finally talk all this through. Funnily enough this debate raged for months and they were getting nowhere. So he sticks his oar in and comes up with "homoousion" Greek for "of one substance".

There you have it ladies and gentlemen, Jesus, if he ever existed, was changed from a carpenter's son into "Divine Essence" in one massive human argument .

However this got even more silly, Constantine had been highly influenced in his decision by a Spanish chap called Ossius. When Ossius fell out of favour an exiled Arius returns and is given the cathedral in Constantinople. So despite there being what is now referred to as Nicaean Creed which the Catholics now revel in, Constantine, when he died in 337 AD, died a baptised ARIAN!

It gets worse and more silly as time wonders on but suffice to say I think my point has been made. A group of HUMAN MALES got together and debated, amongst other things, Jesus's divinity. Why? Because Constantine wanted a more Unified Europe, remember the way Roman's ruled was to conquer people but mostly leave people in charge that the populace trusted because policing it was a bit of a bugger otherwise. What better could Constantine do than to grab everybody who had any importance in Europe whatsoever and assert his authority over them debating such an "important" issue


Now I know David is going to whine and bawl and say I went to an atheist website etc and I did hehehe http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/arianism.html

I will go search others when I have the time (and a better back) and see if the story changes but I think the chap, Kenneth Humphreys, whose website I read most of this off of has been doing his reading and quotes his sources at the top of the page.

Apologies for ranting but I felt like it! Please by all means add your own impressions cos I think I will go grab a few books when I have the money and really have a go at this, its very interesting.
Cheers, Philip

1338. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47315 by Philip1978 on June 4, 2007 at 4:18 am

Ok David, give me a bit of time as I have a bit of book hunting to do, I don't want you to think I am trawling atheist websites or such the like, though I will do some trawling on the internet too. I remember reading about this when I lived with my folks but lost the books and cant remember who wrote them.

Nonetheless before I even venture forth on this subject I want a few things from you, do you actually acknowledge they got together in 325 AD to discuss religious issues and the bible? Did they or did they not discuss religious events such as the Easter Controversy?

1339. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47310 by Philip1978 on June 4, 2007 at 3:54 am

I think we should all have a competition to see how many times we can get David to call us a) Fundamentalist b) Distorting his lies, I mean, words (See there I go again, its the rascal in me!)
c) him deeming your questions to be not worthy of Him answering them!

Bonus points to be given for getting swear words out of him!

1340. My Road to Atheism, What Took Me So Long and The Aftermath

Comment #47307 by Philip1978 on June 4, 2007 at 3:44 am

I have heard a lot of stories from a lot of people on this site and I still marvel at just how easy I have had it concerning religious experiences. For me religion has never existed in my life as I can't remember a time, even before I stopped praying at school when I was 8, when I actually BELIEVED in a god. Reading this and other stories really emphasises how lucky I am and how I admire people's bravery to revert from a religious background because of how difficult it is.

Philip

1341. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #47302 by Philip1978 on June 4, 2007 at 3:15 am

David, there you go again using the "F" word, I told you to go look it up but you insist on using it in the wrong context. You called me a liar and said you have never used it to describe people who question your religion, I even provided previous quotes and Billy left that fabulous link to the Troll section! Here you are telling your congregation that we are a bunch of Fundamentalists and since we are the ones questioning your religion I get the feeling you think of Atheists as fundies, make your mind up!

"Actually, most of my congregation know about it. In fact I would encourage them to have a look at this website. It would help them to see that it is not only religious people who are fundamentalist. It would also help them to see the kind of foolishness that we are up against."

See, what am I supposed to think of that?

Plus you never told me what type of Calvinist you are, would still like to know

Oh yes, the Constantine thing, I acknowledge the bible was around before he and his mates made a load more stuff up, I just wanted to know what you thought of their actions. I look at it as a bunch of men making more rules for a man made religion

Philip

1342. Atheism shall make you free

Comment #47291 by Philip1978 on June 4, 2007 at 2:06 am

Hmm...,"Being wrong is one of life's most valuable experiences" my life must be priceless by now!

1343. The planet hunters

Comment #47284 by Philip1978 on June 4, 2007 at 12:50 am

DavidJMH et all, leave Mind Rebel alone, he made a mistake, I would recommend more helpful remarks than calling him silly names

Bizzaro the bible contains totally irrelevant information about the earth being flat and it being around 6000 years old etc. I would hardly expect a 1st Century book to have the same knowledge of the universe that we have now 20 centuries later, would you?

1344. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46704 by Philip1978 on June 1, 2007 at 8:02 am

Hi Stan,
Nice tough question for David, good start mate!

BillySands, God of Biochemistry and Gay Fruit Flies, long may his White Lab Coat shine upon us, has already bet a Mars bar on a stupid answer for his question, this is proving to be a most interesting day!

1345. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46674 by Philip1978 on June 1, 2007 at 3:57 am

Cheers Billy, I see, so not only have you found god (mitrochondrial uncoupler, it all makes sense now!) but have now started playing god as well!!

Keep up the go(o)d work! hehehhe

1346. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46664 by Philip1978 on June 1, 2007 at 3:36 am

Billy, its no good you smart arse, I can't quite grasp what a mitrochondrial uncoupler does!! Is it something that is involved with the heart or respiration?

1347. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46651 by Philip1978 on June 1, 2007 at 2:46 am

Woo hoo! David thinks my posts are a waste! My work here is done!!

1348. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46640 by Philip1978 on June 1, 2007 at 12:53 am

I remember reading a Bertrand Russell book, I think it was Why I am not a Christian, where he examines a particular story of Jesus.

Jesus discovers that there are some demons, who being naughty in His sight have possessed some poor unsuspecting men causing them to cause complete havoc near a farm or something. So big J pitches up, sends the demons off to possess a herd of pigs who then going mad with frenzy go hurl themselves off a cliff. Funnily enough, like Bertrand, I have a bit of a problem with this one. David perhaps you could help with this one as well if you feel up to it.

Now I am no vegetarian but isn't this a bit cruel on the pigs? I mean there they were happily crapping and grazing away as is the wont of pigs and then they are forcibly possessed by demons to go hurl themselves off a cliff

Couldn't big J simply yell an Almighty "Bugger ye off! and cast the demons back to hell without using the pigs? I mean now the poor chap who owned them has to find a new herd, probably was saving them up to get enough money to feed himself or even his family etc Oh but its alright, its Big J, Son of Gawd himself.

What exactly was the moral of this story, if you are possessed and in need of help make sure there is a spare cliff and some pigs nearby?

Was Jesus an anti capitalist? I mean he obviously doesn't approve of Interest Rate fluctuation or he wouldn't have kicked the crap out of the money lenders and here he is ruining the farming economy as well! Then there is the fishing and bread industry, there he is in front of 5000 people and hands out all the fish and bread to those around for FREE!I think I can recall something about him mending the fishing nets and there being one hell of a catch but I still feel he was up to something!

Can anyone help me out here on any other instances of Jesus sabotaging the economic growth of Jerusalem?

1349. Debate between Richard Dawkins and Robert Winston

Comment #46430 by Philip1978 on May 31, 2007 at 7:41 am

David,

You laugh at my view of history, fine, I find the fact that you talk to an invisible "god" and have not been locked up for it laughable but each to our own. People who hear voices in their heads claiming Elvis is talking to them have been, I see at as simply swapping Elvis for your god!

I have to ask this one, I did after all make claims to there being a plethora of gods to believe in, so lets concentrate on yours, since you used the name Knox and he was a Calvanist? yes? Sorry about the Catholic thing, but hey ho you grew up in the right area for Presbyterianism, its all the same to me anyway.
Presbyterianism, hmm, being Protestant was too rubbish was it?
So are you a Four-point Calvinist? Neo-Calvinist?(Is that the Matrix version? arf arf!)Christian Reconstructionist? Lapsarianist? Hyper-Calvinist?
I heard something about Scottish Reformist, does the above apply to any of them or is that a different one too
Then I heard some reformists went off and formed unions from others like Congregationalists, Anglicans, and Methodists? Heretics?

Bloody hell the list goes on, so many reforms in Scotland, Ireland, Canada and America and each with their own wild ideas over what amounts to being the same religion!! I mean for goodness sake, how do you end up choosing the right one? Or has your god simply predetermined it and might forgive you for choosing Hyper Calvinism over the Neo one if he is feeling particularly merciful? Or did he predetermine the one you were going for and simply for a giggle is going to kick your backside into hell anyway!

You have read the bible for 25 years? Do you keep missing out on the Old Testament or you just gathering your mates to hunt the rest of us down for a good old fashioned stoning to death cos we told you your god is false?

Who are you going to go for first? My betting is on Steve99 (sorry mate, its his god who hates you, not me I promise!) cos he is gay and obviously the biggest abomination of us all. So what if the guy happens to have the same feelings men that you have for women, the man was predetermined by god to fall in love with men so your religion could persecute him!

Belgium to all of it, like you said, I don;t understand any of it and quite frankly I don't want to. How you can say you have a divine right to sleep with women but he can't sleep with another consenting adult male? Its like me saying you have to support the English Rugby team because I say they have a divine right to win the 6 Nations each year!
I know you were expecting people to have a go at you for this but I don't condone what you think about Steve99 and other gay people, he has every right to decide what he wants and good on him for it.
I'm probably being arrogant again so I will go away and leave you alone, sorry about the rant again guys, I got bored at work!

Philip

1350. Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself

Comment #46058 by Philip1978 on May 30, 2007 at 5:18 am

Epeeist, am not knocking myself I promise, just don't mind admitting I lack knowledge in some areas! But whilst you have your strengths I bet I could wipe the floor with you playing the guitar! hehehehe

Rock on!

Philip