Comments by al-rawandi

1351. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196569 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 7:08 am

Fanusi is Steve's alter ego Doppleganger.

This is fun...

|>:-{o

Comment #196564 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:59 am

esuther,

Jewish immigration was quite complicated. Early on, the Israelis set up a group called Ha Mossad le-Aliyya Bet. Which dealt with just that, 'aliyya' (meaning return to Israel, but more spefically Mt. Zion and Jerusalem). This group assisted in the immigration of many Jews to Israel. As many Arab Jews had already come to Israel there were contacts with Arab governments, and the expulsion of these Jews was more of a transfer. So expulsion of Jews may be a harsh term, but the Arabs generally wanted them gone.

There is a letter from the head Rabbi of Baghdad to the United Nations, requesting protection for Iraqi Jews from ZIONISTS. The Ha Mossad le-Aliyya Bet (later to be reformulated simply as the Mossad or "Insitute") actually organized a bombing campaign against Iraqi Jews to convince them it was unsafe to remain and to emigrate to Israel. In fact, the Iraqis actually tried and convicted several people in a cafe bombing, which was part of this larger campaign.

Like I said, there were only about 800,000 Jews in the late 1940's in Israel, and more Jews were needed by Israel, and Arabs wanted rid of their own Jews, so there was a meeting of supply and demand.

Population transfer is still a goal of the Israelis, it is more subtle now and involves restrictions and policies and less outright force.

1353. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196560 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:52 am

epeeist,

I don't know where you read that before, you are going to have to tell me. But Communism opposes human nature, and thus is doomed to fail because it cannot offer anything better than an existence hovering over abject poverty. I am surprised people put up with it for as long as they did. It also inevitably breeds leaders like Stalin (or Castro or Kim Jong Il).

Podaar,

Well that certainly goes for countries that don't guarantee liberty to their citizenry. There is no standard rule to this, it depends on the state. But Hannah Arendt has some interesting takes on revolutions. Same with Slavoj Zizek.

1354. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196556 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:47 am

TeraBat,

So whether it "promised" or not we were there first.

You sure about that one? Let me rephrase this to make it correct:

"The Jews were the only ones left alive in Canaan/Palestine/Israel after they slaughtered the other inhabitants."

There that's better.

As for Arab presence. I can date with confidence that "Arabs" and their antecedents have live in the area of Palestine for nearly 3,000 years. The Tamim family itself has been there for over 1,800 years (in the area of al-Khalil/Hebron). And Israeli archaeologists have discovered several Nabataean inscribed stones in the Negev desert that date to the second century C.E. Of course the Israelis just left these in the sand, because it hurt their claims to the land.

1355. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196553 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:43 am

decius,

John Perkins worked for a company called Main Corporation (Chas. T. Main). It provided "consulting services" to the US government. Perkins claimed he served as an "economic hitman", producing inflated profit projections to third world governments who would pay for these projects (by American companies of course) through American loans. The US would loan them the money (Indonesia for instance) the third world country would pay the American company for the service, then the project would never make the promised return. The country would be in debt to the US and the US could say "give us an air base and we forgive the debt" or something similar.

Perkins makes a lot of claims, they are mostly based on his first hand experience dealing with these countries on the ground, and he wrote two books to "clear his conscience". His first book was believeable, but his second book "The Secret History of the American Empire" was too much of a stretch, and several times I noticed direct falsehoods.

For instance he claims he was drinking "sake" in a Chinese restaurant in Jakarta. Of course the Chinese drink "jiu" and not sake, and if he had truly spent a lot of time in Indonesia he would have known this. There were several other instances of such "inconsistency".

As for Noriega he has no direct evidence for the claim that I can tell, but I will go back and look tonight.

1356. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196547 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:27 am

esuther,

Let's not forget that a similar number of Jews (Mizrahi Jews) were expelled from Arab countries around the same time... this must also be "ethnic cleansin"? The difference is that Israel took many of these people in, while the Palestinian refugees have been nothing more than a propaganda tool for Arab governments.

1357. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196542 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:19 am

decius,

This was a rumor. There was a private beach in Panama, run by the regime. It was used by foreigners and it was a place that the government administered for their benefit. And it happened that they also had a few cameras up. The beach was well stocked with drugs, alcohol, and women. The idea was submitted by John Perkins. I look at him with suspicion (Confessions of an Economic Hitman), that is why I said "rumor".

1358. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196539 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:15 am

decius,

I also get a little perturbed when people say that the US defeated Communism. This is not totally true. The military build up on our side was detrimental to their economy, but other things had a far greater effect, including internal politics and turmoil. Plus the simple fact that Soviet Communism had a shelf life of less than a century and was bound to fail.

People often forget there was a great deal of difference between the policies of Brezhnev, Gorbachav, Kruschev, and others. An arms race and low intensity conflicts were only a part of bigger circumstances.

1359. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196535 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:07 am

decius,

Do you ever notice that the names of American operations are often the exact opposite of what they really are? "Just Cause"? Oh please, the deal was Noriega had video of George W. Bush doing cocaine and having sex with a prostitute, and was holding it over Bush Sr.'s head.

For the memory, less beer, more ginko biloba... but after I all the beer I can't remember if that might not be less ginko biloba and more beer.... sheesh.

1360. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196533 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 6:00 am

Tera Bat,

You are starting to piss me off. I said propaganda was an art form in the Arab world, then in regards to Deir Yassin, I cited JEWISH sources. The man who described the swords and gutting was FRENCH NOT ARAB. You need to pay closer attention.

Some atrocities did happen Qibya. Not quite a massacre

Ohhhh I see we are going to play semantics. Do you like logic? I have a little logic problem:

How many people must be murdered in their homes before it becomes a massacre? 50? No no no that is only an atrocity. How about 100.... or is the magic number somewhere closer to 6 million? You will have to excuse me if I handicap your websites a little. Arabs may have mastered propaganda, but the Israelis aren't strangers to propaganda themselves.

Now as for your source, etzel.org:

http://etzel.org/

It appears to be a site of family photos, nothing I would call scholarly. I wouldn't trust that as far as I could throw it. But since you are the one who simultaneously says the UN hates Jews and then cites the UN, I can't imagine you will take this stuff serious.

1361. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196529 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 5:52 am

Vinelectric,

Human Rights Watch put out a study, of which I have a copy. It is entitled "Dreams and Nightmares" and it is all about the slave trade in Saudi Arabia. Much of it is about people who come to work, but are abused. For instance there was a great deal of testimony from Phillipino maids who came to work, but had their passports taken by their employers and were repeatedly raped by the men of the house. These men are justifying this through Islamic law, which permits sexual intercourse with family servants.

And Fanusi is being modest, there is also a large slave trade in Mauritania, and that is the Jamhuriyya Islamiyya not a secular state.

1362. Muslim countries win concession regarding religious debates

Comment #196527 by al-rawandi on June 20, 2008 at 5:46 am

decius,

Operation "Just Cause" in Panama was only a bombing campaign. I didn't know there was an invasion as well. Granted the bombing campaign caused tens of thousands of deaths, all because Noriega was no longer the loyal servant and George Bush needed to show he was tough on "dictators".

1363. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196270 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Tera Bat, Advocatus, etc...

I have to go. More tomorrow.

1364. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196263 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 2:44 pm

TeraBat,

Deir Yassin:

Elements of the Stern Gang entered this village and massacred about 250 people. I will spare the bloody particulars about dismboweled women (which I have read in detail).

Elements of the Haganah participated in the operation as well. Approval was given by Ben Gurion, one of his aides said "When the Old Man wanted something done, he didn't have to say it, he gave us a look". This was referring to doing something that was illegal or immoral.

Deir Yassin was witnessed by a number of people, including a French Red Cross worker who gave detailed testimony of what he saw in the aftermath. It is also fair to say that the massacre was actually stopped by Jewish villagers from the neighboring village who had lived next to these Arabs for many years, peacefully.

You do know that in the 1950's the Shin Bet was used to do a number of shady operations. For instance they were used to effectively close down Uri Avneri's dissident paper in the 1950's while promoting a the publication of the party paper (Ben Gurion's party of course). Isser Harel himself ordered a number of actions against "collaborators" and the like, to be carried out by the security services... after the creation of the state.

None of the wars that have occured there would have happened if they weren't so obsessed with "pushing the infidils into the sea"

This is strongly disputed. In 1956 there were several opinions on how to deal with Egypt. Moshe Dayan, as chief of the general staff suggested an attack in October (which is the plan that was carried out). While Moshe Sharret believed that the whole thing was a whole lot of bull shit designed to show foreign powers that Israel was strong and an ally worthy of weapons shipments. Sharret lost this debate, but he was not alone in believing that the 1956 war was an excuse for a joint operation with the English and French. And it is pretty clear that Israeli Intelligence (the nascent Mossad, formerly the Mossad le-Aliyya Bet) passed "exaggerated" information to draw the British and French into the operation.

And don't get me started on 1967.

1365. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196259 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 2:32 pm

Steve,

What I meant is that our thinking about it means it affects us differently as we interact with our environment with "evolution" in mind. We make choices that determine our evolution, and we do so knowing evolution is a mechanism of change.

Does this makes sense, because I am only 50% sure it does?

1366. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196257 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 2:26 pm

TeraBat,

As for the UN declaring that there was no massacre in Jenin, you can laugh, but it's true. And the fact that they hate us so much makes their decision all that more conclusive.

Israeli politicians call the UN reports against it "lies" but when it supports an Israeli claim it is truth. This is irrational and stupid, and you are above this.

BTW I'm a woman.

Yeah so? You still served in the IDF, that was a brave thing to do. That is one thing I think the ISraelis got right, they include all citizens in responsibility for defense of their homeland.

BTW, I am excited to one day visit Israel. It is a testament to how to make a country work, and quickly. Did you know that in 1950, there were only 800,000 Jews in Israel? They lived on the brink of destruction and held their own, alone against the world. That is worthy of respect, even if they did some nasty shit along the way.

If I have to choose between Zionism and Islamism, I choose Zionism, because I disdain it far less.

1367. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196255 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 2:20 pm

TeraBat,

First of all you are a massive hypocrite citing the UN. The UN has passed over 70 resolutions condemning Israel, Israeli politicians regularly call it "useless", "Anti-Israel", and "Anti-Semitic". Now to defend Israel, you cite the UN. Do you see the problem here?

I am going to ignore the fact that you think murdering civilians is a deterrent to violence, because you seem like a pretty bright person and you know better.

What happened during the British Mandate was a totally different story. There were rogue terrorist groups but they acted indepentanly of the Yishuv and the Palmach. Most of the Yishuv was against it

Woh woh woh, not so fast sparky. The Deir Yassin massacre, where the Stern Gang, along with others massacred hundreds, gutting pregnant women with swords, and then throwing corpses into the well... First things first, multiple testimonies say that the "Old Man" (Ben Gurion) gave tacit approval to the operation. And the Stern Gang was led by Yitzhak Shamir. It was responsible for violence against the British, the Arabs, and against Jews it deemed collaborators. And even if the Yishuv didn't approve (which it did, based on Ben Gurion's subtle head nods to talks of violence) of the acts, the Israeli people were at least indifferent when the man came to be prime minister. And this of course, based on the 1948 "Prevention of Terror Ordinance" he could have been removed from office as Azmi Bishara was under the same law only recently.

And you need to read Benny Morris and get a clue about what the Yishuv was up to. Don't play the "disorganized" card. The Haganah did some nasty stuff, with the knowledge and approval of the Yishuv. Also, I think you would be shocked at the behavior of Begin and Shamir, as they groups often murdered other Jews.

Now, I am the first to point out that the Arabs were awful, and in fact worse, but I think the Israeli claim of "Purity of Arms" was the biggest farce ever, and every shred of historical data suggests I am correct in this belief.

1368. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196244 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 1:55 pm

advocatus,

The issue about Sharon (which differentiates him from Shamir, and Begin) is that he was found 'responsible' for the massacres by an Israeli court. It wasn't some Shaykh in Gaza saying this, it was the Israeli High Court. So he cannot claim innocence.

However he didn't actually perpetrate the massacre, he was found responsible for not forseeing the actions of the Phalangee militia under his control... and it is likely he purposefully let them massacre the Palestinians in those camps.

Even worse and less noted, is that Sharon led the force that perpetrated the massacre at Qibya in 1956. This raid was in response to a series of terrorists attacks carried out by Arab fedayeen (specifically one on a bus killing 12 civilians). They detonated explosives with people in their homes, and if they tried to run out before the explosives went off, they were shot. This to me is far more damning, as he personally led the operation.

1369. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196239 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 1:45 pm

advocatus,

He is right. The funerals were staged, and the "body" fell and got up.

Also Rabin was not responsible for the King David Hotel, Menachim Begin was. But to that point, Begin was also prime minister, and even worse, so was Yitzhak Shamir (Stern Gang, an awful terrorist group).

1370. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196235 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 1:42 pm

TeraBat,

One more thing. The UN investigated the claims of massacre and decreed that they were a lie. There was no massacre in Jenin.

Woh woh woh... Is this the same UN Israel calls anti-semitic and anti-Israel. Funny how it turns up as a source here, no?

1371. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196233 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 1:40 pm

TeraBat,

A couple of points.

1) The IDF bulldozed a house on top of a handicapped boy.

2) I have posted numerous videos of the IDF and border guards firing on innocent people, including peace activists and journalists. They even shot a nobel peace prize winner from Ireland.

3) You are right, the Palestinian resistance organizations have mingled with the innocent to a point where it is impossible to fight them, while the IDF has worn uniforms and stood IN FRONT of their civilians. A noteworthy difference, and a credit to Israel.

4) I heard about the fake funerals. The guy fell off the stretcher and got back on. Quite impressive. But if you will remember an explosion in Gaza last week... it was blamed on an Israeli air strike and Hamaas launched rocket attacks in response. And only later was it learned that it was actually a Hamas bomb factory that exploded and not and IAF strike. Propaganda is an art form in the Arab world.

1372. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196218 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 1:22 pm

Steve,

You are no doubt right... but we certainly haven't transcended biology. We haven't transcended anything, we have reached a point in our evolution where our interaction with our environment has changed our situation and the rationalizing portions of our brain have come to different conclusions.

Evolution is a different game when we talk about its effect on entities that can contemplate it as an idea. A force pressing on our species, which we can identify and discuss, and by doing this very thing, we change the way we evolve. So cyclical, is it not?

1373. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196213 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 1:15 pm

Sciros,

Why? Because TeraBat is trying to sell some racial nonsense, and I can't stand that bull shit. Besides I don't really care about making these threads train wrecks.

1374. It Doesn't Take an Einstein

Comment #196211 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 1:12 pm

esuther,

Remember this photo (at top of the page):

http://www.intifada.com/childhood.html

The young boy throwing rocks at the tank was shot by an Israeli sniper. I heard rumors the sniper got a medal, but this might just be Arab propaganda which is never in short supply.

It is getting difficult to reconcile Jewish claims to victimhood with an increasing military might, which surpasses its remaining enemies.

1375. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196198 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 12:54 pm

Podaar,

I am waiting on a research report from Nasdaq, can't do much til it gets here..... b-b-b-b-oring.

MPhil,

I understand that, I was using "biology" as a metaphor for the smallest reducible physical object or property. It was meant to be obviously reducible. I was more worried about conveying the point that one cannot "transcend" one's biology (or any of its subsidiary objects). This may be a matter of wildly differing definitions of transcend, which I think may be the case because I was using the dictionary definition, while fizhburn was talking about ending xenophobia and making long term plans.

So maybe I missed this philosophical boat.

1376. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196183 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 12:15 pm

Galactor,

Isn't it "Bejeebus"?

Now that is fucking pedantic... I am ashamed.

1377. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196182 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 12:13 pm

fizhburn,

Ok, we can leave Kant alone, that would be a little off topic, even for myself.

But let me clarify my slight hyperbole. You said:

ought we to transcend our biology?

What does that mean "transcend"? Maybe we are encountering semantic problems at this juncture, but I would have to say that it is simply impossible to trancsend our biology, is it not? We can only operate within a biological frame work, one which we have evolved. I said "soul" because it seemed to me, you were giving ontological value to some "transcendence" which I argue can never occur, because any change must be made possible through some biological change, either in a single generation or over several.

Xenophobia is biological, as is the absence of xenophobia, would it not?

I am making quite a large ordeal out of a very small issue here.

1378. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196164 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 11:42 am

fizhburn,

Now in humans, we can identify similarly miswired individuals. One extreme example is the sociopath. Sociopaths engage in behaviors that are likely to get them sanctioned by the society they live in, if they are caught

Wired? How is that? What defines a sociopath is only partially inherited, namely the anti-social personality disorder. There are plenty of these types who are in the military, police, fire department, sky divers, etc... Sociopath, in the way you may be using it, require some extra coaching... but you may know this and understand environment as part of their wiring.

I'm not advocating the sort of objective items that certain Kantians want to hold exist, as for all "rational" agents, because of "constituitive features of rational action." Nor do I think there is a sans phrase Form of the Good.

Why not, exactly? I don't mean to distract, but I found a lot of Kant's moral writing quite convincing.

I don't think this prejudices a further question, which is, ought we to transcend our biology?

So you reject materialism, and assign ontological value to things such as "soul" and "mind". Everything is reducible to its biological components and processes, we cannot transend them as we ARE them.

1379. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196156 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 11:20 am

Someone send this in for a submission, Josh doesn't like me and never posts my submissions (who can blame him with the 10 pornographic links I sent in).

This kid is the cousin of the toddler who died from going untreated. What a bunch of loons.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/19/faith.healer.deaths.ap/index.html

1380. The Mother, The Child, The School Board And The Psychic

Comment #196116 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 10:15 am

MPhil,

Kenny G. is pretty talented as well.... but he is the reason I hate elevators.

1381. The Mother, The Child, The School Board And The Psychic

Comment #196104 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 9:56 am

mordacious1,

I just read that severed foot story today.

Maybe they can get a psychic to track down the killer. And wasn't there some killer out in the country feeding his victims to pigs???

1382. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196092 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 9:35 am

irate,

irate_atheist is now having a glass of water before spreading 'the word'.

Is the word legs?

*ducks*

1383. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #196074 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 9:15 am

Wow.... b-b-b-boring today.

Someone post a controversial article.... fast!

1384. Charles Darwin: 'Is man an ape or an angel?'

Comment #196004 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 7:10 am

Laurie Fraser,

You know that history is inadmissable as evidence.

:-)

1385. The Mother, The Child, The School Board And The Psychic

Comment #195976 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 6:28 am

I sense..... a presence.... a presence of.... bull shit.

1386. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195955 by al-rawandi on June 19, 2008 at 5:53 am

RTG,

I have a request... The Dow Jones finished below 12,000 yesterday... not good. Could I ask you to pray for a 150 point bump today... we could really use it, otherwise the bear's will have the market.

Thanks.

1387. We Urgently Need Your Help Now!!

Comment #195562 by al-rawandi on June 18, 2008 at 1:16 pm

cerad,

Hurricane Darwin is bearing down on LA

1388. Divine Impulses: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #195561 by al-rawandi on June 18, 2008 at 1:15 pm

Enlightenme...,

As for Jewish demotion to jobs of usury... What about Arabs? They are often business owners and the like and many people think it "difficult" to do business with them. Maybe it is semitic people? They lived in an area that was the nexus of several continents, and a lot of trade came their way.... Maybe this has something to do with it.

1389. Divine Impulses: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #195547 by al-rawandi on June 18, 2008 at 12:55 pm

Enlightenme...,

You are not going to have a hard time convincing rational people that there are race issues, including differences in the races. You are going to have a hard time convincing the die hard liberals that they will have to abandon there "Everyone is the same and the sun is shining" dogmatism. It is canonical in leftist politics, these dogmas, so beware.

1390. Oystein Elgaroy - the Christian defender who became an Atheist

Comment #195490 by al-rawandi on June 18, 2008 at 10:23 am

Carto,

Way to insult the new guy. Geeze, we can't take you anywhere.... You always have to make a scene.

1391. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195483 by al-rawandi on June 18, 2008 at 10:07 am

mesomodel,

Name this speaker:

"The nose is clearly designed for spectacles, so we wear spectacles, and the foot is clearly designed to be booted, so we wear boots."

1392. Divine Impulses: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #195402 by al-rawandi on June 18, 2008 at 7:04 am

Enlightenme...,

Well read "Guns, Germs, and Steel". Many a native population conquered through disease (Cortez and Atahualpa for example).

Anyhow, the presence of mega-flora and mega-fauna were instrumental in the development of peoples. I really don't like to suggest that people are fundamentally different, but they do often come from fundamentally different environments. In terms of race, there is no scientific data to suggest any biological difference between peoples. In fact genetic variegation can be as great within one race as it could be between races.

It is no coincidence that the Abrahamic faiths have so much in common and all come from roughly the same region. My trouble is that I really love Arabic, the Middle East and Arab culture, there is so much about it I like and enjoy, yet the nasty bits are so flagrant as to stand out beyond the niceties (more often than not).

RamziD,

You are right, I am growing weary of the things that come out of the Middle East. I think we need to get unhooked from oil and then let them sort themselves out. Any reformation will have to be because they want it and initiate it.

Fanusi,

PM for you.

1393. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #195377 by al-rawandi on June 18, 2008 at 6:16 am

epeeist,

You do not resemble George Galloway at all. I can't detect even a hint of a Scottish accent in your posts, so don't worry.

1394. Divine Impulses: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #195029 by al-rawandi on June 17, 2008 at 3:09 pm

RamziD,

When you have thousands of years of cultural history to sort through, it's hard to pinpoint exactly what the problem is.

I pinpoint those thousands of years as the problem. I was not getting specific, quite the opposite I think.

I know you're waiting for me to spout off about something like oppression from the west, exploitation, the US is to blame

No I wasn't. Actually I tend to think you are pretty rational about things. Your posts are not reactionary, so I expected about what I got, a pretty reasonable answer.

but you are also pretty absolutist by saying that Arab muslims can't be enlightened

Well to be fair, I meant a society, since enlightened Arab Muslims are a minority. But I would say I was wrong to be so absolutist, in fact I know a lot of enlightened Arab-Muslims. And I happen to like many aspects of Arab culture immensely, just not the mean stuff. But there is much about my own culture the bothers the hell out of me (American that is).

So my post was a little bit of a fringe comment, pushing the envelope, although not technically wrong I don't think. But that is what happens when I talk to Fanusi too much.

1395. Divine Impulses: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #195019 by al-rawandi on June 17, 2008 at 2:34 pm

RamziD,

How do you know I am not an Arab? How do you know my parents aren't Lebanese?

But to answer your question, Arab tribal ethos was a nasty bit of business in pre-Islamic times. Islam codified this into a religion. So when other countries shed their tribalistic ethos, Arabs didn't because it was now codified in their religion.

Since there is no god, as you admit, then Islam is a product of the Arabs, is it not? Specifically Muhammad, and since there was not a system of forced conversion, Arabs chose this faith (for any number of reasons). So I fail to see how Islam is NOT a reflection of Arab tribal ethos. How then do you account for the more passive nature of Bosnian and Chinese Muslims?

or if people like me are just exceptions to your rule

I have no rule, only observations and history. Like I said, there are Christian Arabs who were suicide bombers.

People's cultures develop around their environment. Is it any wonder that the Muslim view of heaven is rivers and gardens... the one thing lacking in the deserts of Arabia? The harsh environment of the peninsula could only be conquered by a harsh people. Do you agree or disagree that a species' environment plays a significant role in the evolution of that species.

Personally, I like the Arabian peninsula very much, I have written on its historical geography. But there is no doubt that it is a harsh place and the people there subscribe to different ethos.

What, inherent in them, makes them unable to achieve modernization?

Nothing. There are plenty of enlightened Arabs... Ibn Warraq for instance. However why is Arab culture not enlightened (in general terms)? Because it pushes back against things that help to enlighten a culture (women's rights, democracy, freedom of speech, etc...). There is nothing inherent in them because there is nothing you can do to show me they are in any way, biologically different from other humans. So there is a cultural issue, that is persistent.

But to make this fair, let's hear your theory on why the Arab world is suffering under its own weight?

1396. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #194882 by al-rawandi on June 17, 2008 at 11:05 am

Steve,

I have noticed something. Evolution by natural selection is clearly explained, in well worded papers with copious evidence. While creationism is actually an ever changing amorphous pile of ad hominem, which isn't ever delineated in detail because anytime it has been, it was destroyed by scientists.

From a simply aesthetic perspective, evolution and natural selection are an organized blue print, while creationism is a heap of crayon sketched dinosaur saddles.

Striking differences.

1397. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #194869 by al-rawandi on June 17, 2008 at 10:48 am

Karda,

In this new religion "Dudeism" there would not be "Altar Boys" only "Little Lebowski Urban Achievers".

1398. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #194777 by al-rawandi on June 17, 2008 at 9:03 am

epeeist,

Throwing a little logic at these people is quite a humorous adventure.

I always take the miracle approach. They love Jesus miracles, but not the ones in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc... Those are fake miracles and only looney toons would believe in them. It seems too strange to be true.

1399. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #194764 by al-rawandi on June 17, 2008 at 8:45 am

ketch22,

I have actually read the Koran, and there are no miracles performed by Muhammad there. I actually read right to left as this was how the book was represented when I obtained it. All miracles come from Islamic tradition from so-called Hadith. This Islamic traditions comes hundreds of years after Muhammad's life and therefore isn't comparable to the gospels, which were written down within the first generation when the eyewitnesses were still alive.

You read the "Koran" in Arabic? It is read right to left of course. Or you read the English right to left? I studied Arabic, and I don't see the value of reading a translation of Arabic right to left. Perhaps you actually read it in Arabic, I could be wrong.

The Hadith were recorded more or less contemporaneously, but were only compiled into cannonical form by Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, and al-Tirmidhi.

If you had done ANY research on the Hadith you would realize that these were strict systems of codification of the traditions, and that the narrators must have been reliable and the strongest Hadith were narrated by more than one person. Meaning there were many witnesses, and they all related a similar story.

And so how exactly did Jesus hold stars in his hand as the Bible said? Don't you think bringing a burning star that close to the earth might effect global weather patterns?

1400. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #194718 by al-rawandi on June 17, 2008 at 7:56 am

ketch22,

And as far as miracles go, if you believe God exists, then you have no problem with believing He can perform miracles, either as a man or as God in heaven.

You believe in miracles eh?

Well how do you accept the miracles of Jesus and discount the miracles of Muhammad. Hundreds witnessed Muhammad summon rain clouds at al-Hijr and miraculously locate his she-camel. Others witnessed him split the moon in two.

How do you discount those miracles while accepting the miracles of Jesus on the same amount of evidence? I am simply curious how you manage this massive display of hypocrisy.