1401. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #151454 by Diacanu on March 28, 2008 at 6:18 pm

Craigyk

Diacanu: I agree with Dawkins that natural selection is not a good model for society.

As do I.

1402. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #151408 by Diacanu on March 28, 2008 at 4:36 pm

nshowalter-

But of course natural selection is not a good object lesson on how to organize a complex society.

Can you supply a positive argument for why it should be?

I've yet to see one that doesn't involve the person's own arbitrary predjudices getting tangled up in their thought process.

1403. Fleabytes

Comment #150828 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 1:01 pm

As for the beer discussion, I'm a teatotaller, so, laters.
Lemme know when the topic gravitates towards cakes and pies.

1404. Fleabytes

Comment #150822 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:56 pm

al-rawandi-

You missed the place where he proved the existence of God.


We are JW's now. Sorry you missed the boat.

Aw, shit! Really?
And you bastids left me behind to be taken by the lake of fire?
Son of a bitch.
And I wanted to accept Jesus as my lord and savior with y'all.
I mean, I still could, but I wanted Clearthinker to convert me.
Where am I gonna get my fix now?
A Jack Chick comic strip?
As if!!

1405. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150809 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:43 pm

I hope my post 406 didn't come off as smelling of anti-semitism.

I'm just saying, if Stein has swigged the dark elixer of neo-conism in any concentration, then he, like Strauss, is/was a Jew in heritage and name only, and is really secular, and shovels the religion shit for cold pragmatic ends.

1406. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150797 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:32 pm

al-rawandi-

It is weird because Stein is Jewish.

So was Leo Strauss, and he was the cancerous fuck who came up with such neo-con gems like "noble lies, and deadly truths".

And one of those "noble lies", was that society needs religion, and any religion will do.

Given that these neo-cons bubbled up from the septic tank in the 70's, and Stein worked for Nixon at that time, well, there you go...

1407. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150783 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:19 pm

Hmm, I wonder how the villains in Michael Moore's movies were treated.
Never heard of them being thrown out.
Plus he didn't lie and say they were doing some other movie in favor of corporations.
Wouldn't help him if he did, of course, you kinda know what you're getting with Michael Moore.
His reputation proceeds him.
But, no one knew until now that Ben Stein was a creationist wackaloon.
What was my point? I had one when I set out...
Oh yeah, Al's point about enemies being in each other's films.
Even so, going by precident, Mathis's handling of things is quite unique.
Why it's, well, unprecidented.

Mercy, do I miss Firefox spellcheck on my laptop, I just know this thing is littered with typos my eye won't grab.

1408. Fleabytes

Comment #150775 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Holy shit! I can't keep up with this thread!
Last time I was here, it was in the five thousands somewhere.

Has Clearthinker finished his idiotic rebuttal yet, or is he just so damned busy and important?

1409. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150767 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Richad Dawkins-

I can't see any leaks in your reasoning.
Yeah, I think ya nailed it.

1410. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150762 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 11:58 am

Richard Dawkins-

I'd just like to add that I am your blind unquestioning fanboy, and that I worship thee.

(Heh, not really, I'm just trying to irritate Bonzai. Long story, but it's a funny gag, trust me. ;) )

1411. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150490 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 2:05 am

Finally, another optimist!!
The sour-pussery was getting to me!

1412. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150488 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 1:59 am

*Sigh* herding cats indeed...

1413. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150486 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 1:57 am

Richard Morgan-

I know that realism and pessimism often look similar, but you're right in your interpretation of blog behaviours.

What's the alternative?

A better tactic?

Or, silence?

1414. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150484 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 1:54 am

Bonzai-

Well, maybe it is a bit blown up for getting kicked out of a movie.

It's just that the movie happens to be a pack of harmful creationist lies.

And that one of those lies is the po-faced sniffle-pussed victimhood of ID proponants.

And them tossing out someone who happened to be in the film (under false pretenses) toots a big horn for the whopper-tude of their lie.

Yeah, it has to be pointed out with big neon arrows, and banging on a pan with a spoon.

It's irritating, I'm sure, but it has to be done.

1415. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150476 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 1:26 am

Logicel-

but for goodness sakes, don't expect miracles.

No, but we can find America looking for the northwest passage, and we can get cellphones and internet by aiming for the U.S.S. Enterprise.
;)

1416. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150472 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 1:14 am

njwong-

as continuously harping on this will simply give free publicity to this movie which it doesn't deserve.

Well, that may just be unavoidable.

Oh well.

Everyone saw the rumble in the jungle, and what do people remember?
That Muhammed Ali fuckin' won.

They wanna make this a public tussle?
Let's fuckin' win.
No bad publicity my ass.

They lie, and lie, and lie, we call 'em on every single one.
It's what you gotta do.
It's what this site is about.

1417. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150471 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 1:02 am

njwong-

Rationalist sites should move on from this topic,

Then where the fuck does it stop?

When does the head hanging, and tails between the legs routine stop?

What's going to be the criteria?

When does the stand ever get taken?

Why not just shut the fucking site down, and burn our copies of TGD, and be good little closet atheists again?

Won't that be lovely?
Hand the religiots everything?
Oh, let's!
Can we?

Yeah, let's just let them spray their propaganda everywhere, and not say anything, let's let them puke their lies all over the fucking planet, and let it all slide, let's just not rock any boats.

Let's ust be good little boys and girls while these deluded wackaloons ruin everything, and smear their shit on everyone's brain unanswered.

Or, maybe you can give me a list of things you've arbitrarily chosen for us to focus on.

Sorry for the hostility, it's not personal, but I hate quitter-talk.

1418. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150462 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:34 am

Steve/Dlitt-

There used to be a big choir for slavery.
Took awhile, but it fell down.

Truth wins out, bullshit implodes, progress isn't a myth, we're right, they're wrong.
I wouldn't be here if I thought otherwise.

1419. Expelled from Expelled: PZ story goes global

Comment #150458 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:27 am

Steve Zara-

if anyone has a more cheerful attitude to this, I would love to hear it!

In the end, no matter how long it takes, we simply HAVE to win, because we have a stronger motivatiing force.

The truth.

Liars only have greed.
Sure, that can pull you along like a rope tied to a horse, but it can't pump you up like Rocky.

No one ever adrenaline lifted a giant tree off a little girl's leg due to profit motive and thirst for power.

And no one ever hurled every speck of their heart and will and metabolic strength energy into a knockout punch to stop an assailant in the name of a lie.

They're liars, they know they're liars, they already lose.

Maybe that's still naive, but life experience and history bear me out.

Bad guys win for awhile, but ultimately they self destruct.

Their motivators suck.
They have to lose.
Surely as apples fall down.

1420. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150455 by Diacanu on March 27, 2008 at 12:15 am

stevestan-

Ahhh, go blow it out your ass!

1421. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150392 by Diacanu on March 26, 2008 at 8:23 pm

JAL-

I mean where else would he get the idea that some humans are inferior to others.

Religion.

Even before the big 3 Abrahamic faiths, virtually every little tribe claimed a petty vengeful creator God for themselves who arbitrarily and randomly favored their tribe, so naturally, the outsiders of that tribe were inferior, and thus needed to be whacked with bones for their stuff.

It's an idea that goes way, way, back, and takes many forms.

The Nazis just corrupted science to justify their petty human bullshit.

But, you didn't want a serious answer, did you?

1422. Happy Birthday, Richard Dawkins!

Comment #150171 by Diacanu on March 26, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Happy cake post to you!
Happy cake post to you!

Yadda yadda, something, something, let's all have some cake!!

And you smell like one too!

1423. Two More Fleas

Comment #149530 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 8:51 pm

I see Clearmind's spasmotic colon is finally done spraying the walls for now.

Time to get out the sponge mops, and clean up for next time....

1424. Two More Fleas

Comment #149456 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 4:08 pm

Push, clearmind, push!! Get all those chili dookies out of your rumbling colon!! You can doo eeet!!

1425. Expelled Overview

Comment #149452 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 4:05 pm

The far right seems not only to use fear and hate, they seem to ONLY be able to use fear and hate.

It's in their religion, it's in their politics, it's in their fucking corporate owned media they pump people up with fear with, it's just this relentless lava flow of fucking fear.

Make the religious fear us, make us fear the religious, fear, fear, fear, fear.

It's like a video game with one button.

It'd be funny if it weren't so disturbing and have such spooky RL consequences.

My solution, laugh off as much as I can until they get violent.
Then turn that on them when they do, because then they lose.

And y'know it'll happen.
You pump the ignorant full of fear 24/7/4/12, one of 'em is gonna lose his tiny little mind, and hurt someone.

1426. Two More Fleas

Comment #149448 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 3:58 pm

You done making poopies yet, or did you save it up for 3 days?

1427. Two More Fleas

Comment #149441 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 3:53 pm

*Yawn* *sigh*
You're an empty little man, wooter.

1428. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #149437 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 3:48 pm

Fear not.
Bill Maher's "Religulous", and Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go Of God", are coming soon to theaters near you.

1429. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #149433 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Course, I'm just doing this dissection to explain my position.

I no longer bother with this dissesction personally.

As I said, once someone has knowingly lied for Jesus, every word out of their pie hole becomes suspect, and may as well be a turd sliding out of them.
I write 'em off as a type 3 sociopath, and go on my merry way.

They can theoretically get back in my good graces, but it'd take superhuman effort on their part.

1430. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #149414 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 3:21 pm

NormanDoering-

I don't think you'll find many cold blooded pragmatists and full blown sociopaths trying to convince us here on message board -- it would have to pay somehow. It's people who believe the BS and many aren't so much lying as repeating what they've been told.

I'm not so sure.

I think that christianity, with its proposition of original sin inherently dances into type 2 territory, so, if you get a fervent fanatical believer of the type 1 sort, they'll inevitably start to exhibit type 2 tendancies.
Especially within the clergy.
I happen to think David Robertson is one of this sort.
The higher up in the chain one goes, the more pernicious this cynical outlook on humanity and truth become.

Then, give a type 2 long enough simmering in the marinade of cynicism, their outlook on non-christians will often become a full blown type 3 indifference to anyone outside the little group.

This is inherent to christianity too, with the whole hellfire deal, and Jesus displaying indifference to people who don't crack the code of his obscurantist parables, and outright saying it's to befuddle outsiders so that they'll go to Hell.

I think David Robertson dances the edges of this too.

And I think some type ones skip over type 2 cynicism and go right to type 3 indifference/caprice.
Wooter is one of these.

So, the 3 types can overlap depending on level of fanatacism.
Particularly how deeply one swallows the whole original sin hook.

So, it may not be true that we've had full blown pragmatists or sociopaths on the board, but I've seen those attitudes in various proportionate mixtures from virtually all the christians I've seen here.

As for the point of what's the payoff of trying in vain to convince us atheists..

Propaganda of quote mining our rebuttals out of context to their flock, attention, publicity for their crappy projects, for the wooter types just plain keyboard-courage headrush of spraying verbal diarrhea on imagined enemies, or, to just come here with a hate-boner on, mind closed, and shoring up their belief in how evil we are.
Nevermind that they rile people up saying evil shit themselves. That's okay somehow.

Lot of reasons.
None of them very good, or particularly rational.

But payoffs don't always have to be rational.

Otherwise, we wouldn't have religion in the first place.

1431. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #149338 by Diacanu on March 25, 2008 at 1:37 pm

Well, I might be weighing in a bit late here, but here's my thoughts on the whole lying for Jesus thing.

I've observed lying for Jesus as breaking down into roughly three types.

1.) People that actually believe the Bible bullshit, actually believe they're lying for Jesus, and are thus doing a good thing.

2.) Cold blooded pragmatists who don't even believe the Bible bullshit, but have a contemptuous view of mankind, and think people need to be kept in line with religion, so they shovel the religion bullshit to prevent some sort of imaginary cannibal orgy, and therefore think lying for Jesus is a good thing.

3.) Full blown sociopaths who don't believe the Bible bullshit, couldn't care less about the rest of mankind except themselves, possibly their immediate family, and definately their fucking bank accounts, and know religion is a good racket, and will fight tooth and nail to defend it, as much so as the first type.

Scary thing is, you really can't tell the 3 apart.

You can get flickers of it in those little instants when one of them is bullshitting, knows he's bullshitting, and knows you know he's bullshitting.

But even then, for the practiced and habitual liar, I don't think even a mindmeld would tell you, because they lie inside their own fucking head so much.

Given that, I don't even bother trying to tell the difference anymore.

I write 'em all off as the third type now.

What's really the difference in the end?
Y'know?

You get the same destructive results, and a bullshitter is a bullshitter.

Fuck 'em.

Anyone is welcome to point out some subtle but important difference I'm missing, but until that happens, screw it, they're all type 3 to me.

Only thing separating a type 1 from types 2-3 is the doey eyed delusional pseudo-innocence.

But um,...fuck that.
A soldier who shoots at you cuz he's "just following orders", and is trying to haul in a check to feed his cute little family is just as deadly as the SS officer to me.

Screw their doey eyes, screw their tiny tears, tear down their lies, expose the fraud, and kick the type 2-3s that hide behind them in the nuts.

Type ones picked the wrong fucking team, simple as that, screw 'em.

Duplicity is duplicity, to fuck with how holy they think it is.

1432. The Secular Conscience

Comment #147008 by Diacanu on March 19, 2008 at 4:53 pm

First of all, what FightingFalcon and Jiten said.

Second...

MaxD-

I am constantly baffled by the theist's rejection of secularism. Secularism protects everyone's ability to practice or not practice the religion of their choice.

Because christianity (at least the fundie brand) doesn't want to co-exist, it wants to dominate.

Look at the old testament.
No co-existance there, it's all about crushing all the non-believers.

1433. Fleabytes

Comment #146046 by Diacanu on March 18, 2008 at 2:10 pm

Oh, I saw Clearthinker is STILL using the "angry at a God you supposedly don't believe in", argument.

I called him out in another thread on how he's had that one answered endless times, and it doesn't seem to sink into his thick skull.

But, I realized his answer would make me puke, and he'd just do it again anyway, so I deleted the post.

Perhaps I shouldn't've.

Maybe we should all hound him on it until we get a no-bullshit answer.

Hey, Clearthinker, no one's angry at God, dipshit.
He doesn't fucking exist.
It's members of his fanclub that sicken us.
Just like how Captain Kirk doesn't exist, but some types of Trekkies fucking annoy me.

Except, Captain Kirk is cool, and Yahweh is an asshole.

1434. Fleabytes

Comment #145646 by Diacanu on March 17, 2008 at 9:39 pm

*Skims Clearthinker's latest with a bored eyeroll*

So, how long is this fevered little ego sloppily wrapped in human flesh going to milk this shit?

1435. Fleabytes

Comment #144961 by Diacanu on March 17, 2008 at 5:22 am

Been gone a few days with computer trouble.
(Laptop fried, had to transfer a bunch of backed up stuff to the desktop)

Is Clearthinker finally done with his stupid rebuttal, and has any proof of God popped up in any of it yet?

1436. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #143907 by Diacanu on March 14, 2008 at 3:34 pm

For example, they believe that the human species is marching forward, that there is an advancement toward some kind of collective moral progress -- that we are moving towards, if not a Utopian, certainly a better, more perfected human society.

Well, I'd like to hope so.
I don't think everything's gonna be rainbows, and kittens, and marshmallow trees, but we've come a long fucking away from dying from rotten teeth, lifespans of 25, and bashing each other's heads in with bones over scraps of meat.

That's fundamental to the Christian right, and it's also fundamental to the New Atheists.

Well, human progress is certainly more feasible than the sky kingdom of the invisible sky daddy.

You know, there is nothing in human nature or in human history that points to the idea that we are moving anywhere.

Nothing?!?!?

NOTHING in human nature??

Nothing!?!?

Wow, so everyone's a potential raping, thieving, murdering, prick, and there's no human solidarity at all.
Then how did we make it so far?

Oh, that's right, christians think humans are scum, and need the sky daddy to keep them in line.

And nothing in history?
Jonas Salk, Luise Pasteur, Norman Barlaug?

Yhep, this guy's a social/historical cynic of the Leo Strauss/ Henry Kissinger mold.

Shitheads who with their bile make the blackness of history a self fulfilling prophecy.

Sorry, can't get on board for that shit.

If all life is is keeping meat alive, and chasing money, then I got no reason to get up in the morning.

If my rebellion against that is a delusion on par with religion, and therefore I'm a "fundamentalist", well...fuck it.

It's that, or a gun in my mouth.

There, I've taken sides.

1437. War in Heaven: Hitchens Meets D'Souza on Home Turf

Comment #143288 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 9:47 pm

Back again, eh, Dinesh?
Book sales lagging, need more quotes to mine?

1438. Two More Fleas

Comment #143283 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 9:43 pm

Brian English-

if there's something that's thinking, then a thinking thing exists. Not a person. Not a You, an I or a him/her.

I'm not seeing much of a difference.
Are you saying language makes you or I a "you", or an "I"?

Monkeys don't seem to have trouble fathoming their individual egos.

1439. Daniel Dennett Debates Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #143264 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 7:20 pm

You're right, there are so many other reasons to find him a despicable human being.

1440. Two More Fleas

Comment #143236 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 5:39 pm

Brian English-

But if you jump from thinker to I, it seems to me, you've dropped the radical skepticism and let in some knowledge from the real world

Well, that's essentially saying you're not really thinking, you're something that thinks it's thinking.

But if you think you're thinking, you're thinking.

There's a barrier where illusion breaks down, and your consciousness is it.

Break consciousness down, and you wouldn't even be thinking.

You'd be inert stuff being perceived by someone else.

And if not perceived by someone else, then nothingness.

You can't have the nothingness thinking it's something, because the thought of something becomes the something.

If all that exists is your thoughts, your thoughts are all that exist, and then *poof* you exist again.

You can call that moment of the first peak of the first brainwave outside knowledge rather than self-generated thought, but to me, at that singularity point, you can't have one without the other, and it becomes another difference that makes no difference.

The outside influence of the first peak of the first brainwave may as well be the dreamer of you who is you anyway.

1441. Two More Fleas

Comment #143228 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 5:16 pm

Brian English-

If you didn't know that you or anybody else existed, and all you had to go on was something that thinks. Can logically make the jump from something to I without supposing an I?

What, like, if I were blind, deaf, quadriplegic, and floating in water?

1442. Two More Fleas

Comment #143226 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 5:12 pm

Deepthought-

Wooter is a douche-tard troll.

Won't listen to answers, regurgitates the same creationist tripe again and again as if no one said anything, can't discuss intelligently at all, just here to blow his diarrhea all over the board, and pat himself on the back for it.
Total assclown, and waste of everyone's time.

1443. Two More Fleas

Comment #143218 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:59 pm

Clearmind = Wooter.

1444. Fleabytes

Comment #143215 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:56 pm

J- Keep it in PM so David can't see. That's the point.

1445. Two More Fleas

Comment #143213 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:53 pm

Brian English-

How about a thinking thing that doesn't have identity?

Like, a spark of mind in the void, and the whole world including the laws of science are being imagined by you?

Bupkiss.

Then you're still the name and personality you've ascribed to yourself.

And if your mind is complex enough to imagine other minds, and atoms, and galaxies, then those things exist anyway, just in your mind, but a difference that makes no difference is not a difference.

Just like if you had a transporter that scanned a person down to the quark level, and the data was stored at the quark level, well, the person would actually exist in the computer, wouldn't they?

Make a quark computer powerful enough to make the Earth, and all the people in the world, and bam, it's the world anyway, isn't it?

So, all that leaves, is if you're a brain plugged into a simulation by outside agencies.

But, if that were so, that means the world outside the simulation is the physical world you exist in, and you still exist.

1446. Two More Fleas

Comment #143211 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Brian English-

By saying the something that thinking is I

What else would be doing the thinking?

Even if you're a character in someone's imagination, then you're really a facet of, and thus are, the imaginer, and the imaginer is really you.

Same rules apply if the imaginer is a computer, or anything else you can come up with.

1447. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #143210 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:40 pm

BicycleRepairMan-

Lol, no, I didn't see that.
Saw the headline, and jumped right in.
Great minds I guess.

1448. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #143207 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:29 pm

octopus-

I have even better idea. Why not simply burn libraries with such books and readers in them?

Oh, they can't be that overt anymore, like in the good old days.

But, they can hope and pray a lone nut from their congregation will.

1449. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #143202 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 4:19 pm

A Roman Catholic bishop has likened books which criticise the teachings of the Church to works that deny the Holocaust took place.

The Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, Bishop of Lancaster, told MPs that books critical of the Catholic faith should be banned from school libraries.

BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!

BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!

BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!

BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!

....is the only proper reply to such assertions.

1450. Deadly Sins 101

Comment #143185 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 3:14 pm

Double Bass Atheist-

Like how all of a sudden "whoops, turns out there was never such a place as Limbo after all! Oh, by the way, we're still infallible".