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Comments by Peacebeuponme


1401. Sunday School for Atheists

Comment #90670 by Peacebeuponme on November 26, 2007 at 5:00 am

"He's a child of atheist parents, and he's not the only one in the world."
Dawkins will be pleased...

1402. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. were atheists, and they were terrible! Answer that!

Comment #90668 by Peacebeuponme on November 26, 2007 at 4:56 am

I think we need to return to 18th century
I'd rather take my chances in this century, thanks!
enlightenment debate about freedom, toleration, human rights, art and culture. Any blind ideology without common sense is dangerous and leads to Inquisition, Oswiecim, Gulag...
Couldn't agree more. Its a pity there are many theists around the world who do not see it that way.

Religion is the very opposite of common sense and deserves to be mocked at every turn.

1403. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #90581 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 4:13 pm

his pathetic little quips at the beginning of his speeches obviously appeal to the audience.
D'souza is a poisonous maggot. Unfortunately, and to his credit, he worked out why Hitchens didn't just beat people, but smashed them into the ground, pissed on their head and placed lilies at their grave - a bit of wit goes a long way to getting the audience on your side. On average, most people are morons and he worked that out and got the better of Hitchens.

All thats important though is that D'Souza is miles away from right.

1404. Tony Blair: Mention God and you're a 'nutter'

Comment #90538 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 1:03 pm

This has been debated ad naseum on this forum on a hundred different topics. I'll waste no time on it any longer.
Hear hear on that. There's too many ill informed comments about Iraq on a site thats supposed to be about reason and science. It seems to be the one issue that really divides those here and causes long running, pointless battles.
If you want to join the apologetics for whatever atrocities your government happens to commit, that's your choice.
Matt7895 wrote a considered post making some reasonable points and you call him an "apologetic". I think that's a little unfair. You would be better off arguing specifics if you want to discuss the issue - if you don't agree with what Matt7895 thinks were the governments aims, then fine. Just saying "apologetic" is a little juvenile.

1405. Tony Blair: Mention God and you're a 'nutter'

Comment #90504 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 11:09 am

So, what are you saying? The west picked up where Saddam left off?
No, of course not. I just don't think its as black and white as your post made it out to be. Its impossible to compare the number of dead now and the political situation now with what it would have been if the war hadn't happened.

Personally, I'm glad a tyrant has been removed, sad with the way things have turned out and also deeply dubious of the government's real intentions for going in.

Its complex and I don't feel like I have enough info be be strongly pro or anti, and I think comments like the one you made above are overly-simplistic.

1406. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90489 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 9:57 am

What does this mean? Ultimate Goodness MOTHER? Where is this from?
Tibor is not very careful with spelling. Its "ultimate goodness meter" being referred to, a phrase introduced by Steve99 and by which he's demonstrating Tibor's circular reasoning, though Tibor does not seem to understand.

1407. The absurd world of Martin Amis

Comment #90482 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 9:25 am

Jack Rawlinson

Well said. Sad to see from a man for whom censorship and free speech issues should be close to heart. Yet now he seems to think muslims need protection from criticism.

If there is anyone here who hasn't seen Brass Eye by the way, and in particular the Paedophilia espisode, please go out and get the DVD.

Btw - I don't post on the Guardian CiF anymore. I find the rational, thoughtful people are few and far between, and having a time restriction on subsequent postings makes discussion impossible.

1408. Tony Blair: Mention God and you're a 'nutter'

Comment #90468 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 8:34 am

But perhaps not the slaughter in Iraq of tens of thousands, if not, hundreds of thousands, dead.
No, I'm sure Saddam would have bought them all their own house and given each Shia family their own Sunni butler.

1409. The absurd world of Martin Amis

Comment #90467 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 8:28 am

I really am shedding a tear at this. Is this really Chris Morris, writer of some of the best satire ever seen on British TV? This is the man behind Brass Eye and The Day Today for God's sake!

Chris, is it only Jews from the seventh century that are not allowed in to Saudi Arabia then?

1410. Tony Blair: Mention God and you're a 'nutter'

Comment #90463 by Peacebeuponme on November 25, 2007 at 8:17 am

Matt7895

Also, you surely mean Scottish and Welsh DEVOLUTION. They are still part of the UK, and they've got a damn sight more national autonomy than England has.
And long may we all remain United. I was against devolution and regard "Welsh" "English" and "Scottish" labels a cultural and sporting matter, rather than having any political consequence. At least that's the way I'd like it to be.

However, the sentiment of your comment above seems to suggest that Welsh people somehow have it better, which I don't really think is the case. Welsh devolution didn't really transfer much power and seemed to me a patronising way of keeping certain elements quiet. The UK parliament (which has all the power) is situated in England, staffed by mostly English people and enacts English Laws that apply in Wales.

I'd much rather have one UK parliament which enacted UK laws for UK people. English, Welsh and Scottish nationalist feeling does not do us any good.

Steve99
And scottish and welsh independence (sorry - devolution). And major new rights for mothers and new fathers. And banning hunting. And the incorporation of human rights into UK law. And maintaining low unemployment. And equality of age of consent for homosexuals. And civil partnerships.
And Northern Ireland. And the minimum wage. If we didn't have him we'd have had William Hague, Ian Duncan Smith or Michael Howard, which would have been terrible.

1411. Why Science Will Triumph Only When Theory Becomes Law

Comment #90337 by Peacebeuponme on November 24, 2007 at 10:54 am

Ruht

This bible prophecy thing. Its pretty easy to resolve. Go away, read the bible and then come back to be with a prophecy of something specific that is going to happen in the future. If it turns out to be true - I'll start praying with you.

James Randi will also give you $1 million.

1412. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90179 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 9:10 am

and are there nine hells!!

I thought there were nine circles in one hell.

I may have to revise my opinion as I don't think I could take nine times infinite pain.

1413. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90177 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 9:07 am

why in the nine hells should I follow my conscience or the Golden Rule if there is no objective good and bad?
So that we can function as a society (which ultimately increases your life expectancy and therefore is ultimately better for you).

Our emotions have evolved in just this way to make us feel good when we help out, so that we have a better chance of reproducing and being able to raise our offspring.

1414. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90174 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 9:00 am

talk with others about what they think.
Tibor, this is really important. Its basically what "morals" are all about - trying to live with each other as best as we can. No-one can just sit in a room and lay down the moral law, deity or no.

1415. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90167 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 8:44 am

"My God is a mischievous hateful bastard. Which one is real?"

Maybe both. :) I don't know.
Could you also allow for "maybe neither"?

I like the response "I don't know". It means we get to investigate and seek out truth unencumbered by bias.

1416. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90165 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 8:40 am

So what? You suggest that we shouldn't do what we feel right? Than what should we do? What we feel wrong? Or what?
I suggest we should think carefully before deciding that objective morality exists and that our actions are guided by divine authority.

1417. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90160 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 8:25 am

My God is by definition good. If He isn't good than he is something else, not what I call God.
My God is a mischievous hateful bastard. Which one is real?
Yes, but when I do it, I do it because I think that what I feel right is really right.
* all together now *

So did the 19 highjackers.

1418. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #90146 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 7:05 am

Ian

You're not that guy who was crying and telling us all to leave Britney Spears alone on that video clip that went around a while ago are you?

Do you not think you are being just a tad melodramatic?

1419. Make Richard Dawkins a Knight

Comment #90143 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 6:57 am

Matt7895

Thanks for your response. Though I think we've gone as far as we can, I just want to make two final points in respect of your comment:

When it comes to ambassadorial positions, I prefer those who have a bit of experience, and the Queen has that. She's travelled to more countries than any other monarch in our country's history, she's always well received and she has dedicated her whole life to public service. She's established her credentials. The heir to the throne, the Prince of Wales, has done great work for charity, especially with his organisation The Prince's Trust. And he has started to take on some of his mother's responsibilities in representing the country overseas, albeit unofficially. The two Princes have carried on in their mother's footsteps in aid working abroad, 'getting their hands dirty' so to speak. And they have carried on the tradition of serving in our country's armed forces. So they are establishing their credentials too.
1. You might be right of course, they may have all established their credentials, but that's just dumb luck. Hereditary heads of states means we are pretty much guaranteed a complete fuckwit at some point (if you'll pardon the expression).

2. I think we have a vastly different picture of the princes' "army careers", or charity work (which basically amounts to them getting privileges and seeing the world as most of the rest of us will never be able to).

1420. Make Richard Dawkins a Knight

Comment #90133 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 6:11 am

Matt7895

You've side-stepped the points both Keith and I have made about being able to choose a head of state, but no matter. If it doesn't exercise you all that much, that's ok.

I do think singing "God save the Queen" is a bit different to saying "Jesus Christ!" or "Bless you" though. The song means something important – it's sung at major ceremonies all the time and heard by the rest of the world as representative of our country. When people sing it they are supposed to be filled with passion for their country and fellow countrymen (you should go to the Millennium Stadium when Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is banging out). It's difficult to do that when you have to sing the annoying references to God and the Monarchy.

The pope wanted a reference to God in the European constitution. Whether or not that reference would make any legal difference, it still makes a statement about the status of religion which I wouldn't like. I feel the same way about that Anthem.

1421. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #90118 by Peacebeuponme on November 23, 2007 at 4:26 am

Appleby

If they register as a charity in the US they will have to file accounts. Details of what their charitable activities are and how much of your spend goes on their charitable activities (as opposed to administration) should also be available on the web.

1422. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #90008 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 11:40 am

Epeeist

Ok - you got me to look up the latin. I used woolly because that's about as technical I get!

My feeling is that Aquinas's rebuttable just doesn't really say anything. Just use a phrase like "goodness is grounded in God's character" and side-step the logic of the argument.

It's amazing that someone with the mental faculties of Aquinas would be satisfied by such an argument.

1423. Why Science Will Triumph Only When Theory Becomes Law

Comment #90001 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 11:24 am

Ruht – does what you've written above really make sense to you? Or do you just think it sounds intelligent because you have written a sentence on infinity?

1424. You can't be moral without God!

Comment #89989 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 10:15 am

Tibor - do you really swallow that mush from Aquinas? Its a bit woolly don't you think?

1425. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89987 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 9:56 am

GoatBoy36

Ok - if I wrote all that for no reason, apologies!

1426. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89984 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 9:48 am

GoatBoy36

I've not either:

(a) said whether or not I've made a donation (I really don't see why people have to say either way, but its their call);
(b) "Whined" about anybody posting their thoughts (though I have disagreed with some of them); or
(c) Suggested that I am more important than the next person (what a ridiculous thing to suggest!)

My only issue is with those who think only one sort of opinion should be laid down on this thread. I happen to be more of a fan of open debate.

This article was put up with a comment function. Therefore people will post their opinions.

To be honest, I was initially surprised that this article had attracted so many comments. We all receive charitable requests from time to time and privately decide which ones we want to help with. Its not all that controversial. This being an atheist website and AHA being a promiment atheist its obviously the right place to canvass. However, people have commented, so fine. Its when they got told to keep their opinions to themselves that drove me to post.

1427. Why Science Will Triumph Only When Theory Becomes Law

Comment #89978 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 9:31 am

Ruht

Arguing about evolution is really old hat and boring. Can we have an argument about why pi is actually 3, or why fowl actually have 4 legs?

1428. 'Expelled' Movie: The Extended Trailer

Comment #89955 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 8:22 am

Hilarious. That comment about the IDers faring better in Galileo's time was just fabulous.

And what was all that stuff about losing your friends and job if you watched the film? Is it really long or something?

1429. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89936 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 7:42 am

If you don't want to contribute, don't. You don't have to explain yourself or blame those who ask. You can just pass over the issue, there doesn't have to be a fuss, but there is one.
If you want to contribute, do. You don't have to explain yourself or blame those who ask. You can just pass over the issue, there doesn't have to be a fuss, but there is one.

Why do poppy wearers feel the need to wear the poppy?

1430. Why Science Will Triumph Only When Theory Becomes Law

Comment #89891 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 4:20 am

Shame Ruht went away. Was just fashioning another response.
Anyone fancy spending half an hour on answersingenesis and pretending to be a creationist for a bit, to keep us entertained?

1431. Make Richard Dawkins a Knight

Comment #89879 by Peacebeuponme on November 22, 2007 at 2:57 am

other countries like Spain, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden seem happy with their monarchy, why can't we be?
Actually the Spanish king is a bit of a hit in Venezuela right now - they all have a ringtone of him telling Hugo Chavez to "shut up". Over in Spain one of his "subjects" burnt a picture of him, so maybe he's not as popular as you say.

The guy who burnt the picture unbelievably got fined several thousand Euros. How's that for free speech!

1432. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89622 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 9:21 am

j s bach,

If that is all it takes convince you to profess faith, then maybe you should convert.

1433. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89603 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 8:27 am

Keith,

No, actually I think I have it:

It seems to me that everyone I meet wants to be an alpha, when they would be happier if they would set their sights lower: on being a citizen, which has the virtue of being acheivable.
It all sounds like there's a cult being set up. Just make sure you don't question those Alphas when they come asking for alms.

1434. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89591 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 7:25 am

Has a comment been deleted?

1435. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89587 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 7:15 am

I thought Hitch was a neocon?
This'll be good for 50 posts or so...

1436. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89586 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 7:12 am

Those people who said that the appeal should not have been made are not respecting the right they are using and that is hypocrisy.
Sound's awfully like the moderate muslim response to the cartoons mate - free speech with limits. Just try to throw in a bit of guilt via respect and responsibility and get everyone to play nicely by your rules.

For my money a lot of what you wrote in 228 above doesn't make much sense, and isn't very interesting, so what? You wanted to say it and others may enjoy reading it. It's not my call to tell you "no, you can't contribute".

1437. Make Richard Dawkins a Knight

Comment #89574 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 6:44 am

I'm very much proud of our history and I think the monarchy is the best link we have to our past and to the sense of 'Britishness'. I love the idea of having a monarch and all the ceremony that goes with it.
I think there in lies the problem. I wouldn't use the word "proud" to describe my attachment to Britain, but I do have a sense of Britishness and enjoy being British (as well as Welsh, in my case). However, I think there is a lot in our culture that gives us our British sense and I don't think getting rid of the Royal Family would diminish it one bit.

I mean, it wouldn't bother me if it did, because I'd rather a fair Britain than one stuck in the past, but I'm just suggesting that their is far more to Britishness than the Royals in any case.

Your last two paragraphs don't at all answer the question of why certain people have the right to be King or Queen and not others. You say you don't feel the need to change the head of state, but we will have to one day, when the queen dies. What argument do you put forth for proposing Charles over say Richard Dawkins, Posh Spice or Matt7895?

I know you are not trying to force an opinion - this is just a discussion board after all, but the royallist opinion is forced by the very fact that we can't elect by popular vote. If people want that dim-wit Charles, surely he can be voted in?

1438. Make Richard Dawkins a Knight

Comment #89564 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 5:39 am

However, so does my mum's friend, Mavis, but this doesn't make her the People's Anything.


* Chuckles *

You have put it so much better than I.

1439. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89562 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 5:30 am

I just cannot see why someone would sacrifice all that just because they don't like a few words from a few people.
Words which you can respond and disagree with, or ignore, if you so choose. You can still continue with the business of discussions with others that interest you on the site.

I'm with you on this - there aren't many other sites I spend time on. This one is a wonderful repository of interesting information, learning and open debate. There are actually remarkably few obtuse, deliberately confrontational or just plain stupid posters on hear compared to a lot of places on the web.

Now, what to do with the £25 in my pocket...

1440. Ofcom backs Channel 4 over mosque probe

Comment #89551 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 4:42 am

Has anyone read the Independent today? The christian nutjobs are going to the High Court to try to prosecute Mark Thomson (of the BBC) for blasphemy over Jerry Springer: The Opera.

Unbelievable!

1441. Make Richard Dawkins a Knight

Comment #89550 by Peacebeuponme on November 21, 2007 at 4:37 am

I would 100% agree with what Richard wrote in his reply. The Queen has been an amazing ambassador for our country and has knighted, even if she has done ceremoniously, some of the great minds of our history. The Prince of Wales seems to have anti-scientific interests, but, and this is crucial, he has a son, Prince William, who is very much a People's Prince just as his mother, Diana, was the People's Princess. Prince William doesn't comment on political or religious matters, instead he just likes a good game of rugby and then he goes off to help disadvantaged children in Africa. He will make an excellent King.
All irrelevant to the central problem of positions of importance, power (however small it may be) and wealth being given on birth rather than merit. It is truly disgusting that the state spends money on these people, for nothing, when there are many other areas where it would be better spent.

By becoming "sir", even though its only nominally appointed by the queen, seems to me an endorsement of all that.

1442. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89349 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 11:08 am

Hey, Matt7895. The written word is a wonderful thing - I find the context of my comments misunderstood often, which I have to accept since it takes time to improve my writing style and I am not going to resort to those horrible smiley things.

I wasn't trying to say "Catch up: I've already quoted him". Just wanted to nod that I agreed with you and was glad that others can see problems when we shout down those with opinions other than ours. So apologies if you misread, and thanks for posting!

btw - I started with "We agree on that" just because we'd had a minor disagreement about the monarchy a while back!

1443. The Transcendental Argument for God

Comment #89338 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 10:37 am

Of course it can. Look in the dictionary under "hallucination".
I was going to to DGs point that he'd obviously never done pills. But he's not really disagreeing with you in the sense that you meant your original commnent, just trying to show off.

1444. The Transcendental Argument for God

Comment #89311 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 9:25 am

Dianelos. I've been arguing about the freedom to post on another thread, so I hope you don't include me in your post 528 above (possbily on the basis of a throw-away remark on the McGrath thread).

Anyway, I think were going to have to call it a night on the question of objective morality and religious ethics, though I'm at pains to leave the sentences

You see it's the religious response to the human condition that helps people realize the presence of objective morality in the world.
and
No, I meant precisely that the moral Zeitgeist is always catching up with religious ethical teaching, so it is now better than it was 2000 years ago.
unresponded. I think you probably know that.

I'd love to have seen you formulate an argument supporting the existence of objective morality that didn't boil down to God, "goodness" and circular reasoning. That would have really given me something to think about.

Nevertheless, the journey through biology, physics, mathematics, philosophy and some humour may have been frustrating (or boring) for some but I've found it...enlightening I suppose. There was certainly a lot I have learned and which has reinforced my atheism (I'd say the primary reason for this is that theist responses generally become unclear when pressed by an intellectual atheist, which I'd call the McGrath effect. I think our own unholy trinity of Steve99, Dr Benway and Epeeist have done a pretty good job here in that regard).

1445. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89296 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 8:17 am

Matt7895 - we agree on that. Discussions are not very enlightening unless they contain cons as well as pros.

I had quoted SilentMike earlier on as I think it sums my feelings up perfectly.

1446. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #89268 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 6:10 am

OK - now what?


When you were a kid, did you announce "I'm bored" to your parents immediately after opening all your presents?!

1447. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #89253 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 5:51 am

Philip1978 - Yes! We have finally got this thread from:

...Because she, believing that the whole of reality is not a mechanism but rather something of limitless goodness and alive with meaning, was moved by her pain and uncertainty (the very two things most of us would do anything to avoid) – she was moved by them to surrender into that goodness: To stop being angry about the unfairness of her situation, to stop lamenting her pain....

...and so on until we all die,

to the depths of a pun on "Kant".

The champagne's on ice. We are almost at the summit. irate_atheist, Steve99 I think our plan is working.

1448. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #89241 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 4:53 am

I could mention Plantinga and Kant a lot
Don't. Let's leave sleeping Greeks lie. That sentence alone may have caused his eyelid to twitch.

1449. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #89235 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 4:33 am

I know. How do you propose that we address this lamentable situation?
Perhaps it is encumbent on us to put our heads together and discuss options for rectification?

1450. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #89229 by Peacebeuponme on November 20, 2007 at 3:54 am

What? No one's posted to this thread for a while? Disgrace!
..and so close to 2,500 as well!

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