101. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #109083 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 9:38 am

Re: post #107454
"The worst single terrorist act in the U.S. was carried out by a natural-born, white man."

"Er, pre 9/11 maybe. Even if you play the semantic game around "single"."

Good spot. Thanks for catching that mistake. The four 9/11 occurences, taken as a whole, constituted the deadliest attack on U.S. soil. Personally, the existence of a daycare facility loaded with children at the Oklahoma federal building that was targeted made that attack nearly as bad, if not worse. Maybe not as mind-blowing as planes, but just as nefarious and cold-blooded in my mind.

102. Blind Faiths

Comment #109075 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 9:22 am

Re: Post #108794
"I blame the loss of Christian worldview for the demise of the West. That worldview built the west but now it no longer knows why it exists. I've seen that some sociologists who have said the same thing. "

And I blame the decline of the West on the failing power of the Elves, and the rise of smoke from Mount Doom. Only the lost remnants of the line of Numenor can save us! Funny, what I just wrote doesn't sound any more silly than what you wrote.

103. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #109057 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 8:31 am

Don't know what that last post has to do with anything, but it's an honest question.

104. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #109056 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 8:28 am

I want to find a place that will print, "God works in strange and mysterious ways" on toilet paper. Anyone know a place?

105. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #109045 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 8:13 am

I do like the idea of pissing off fundies. I think maybe I'll start doing what you suggest, even though I rarely use paper money anymore. I use cards all the time. Or fat checks I'm cutting to pay the utility company, the cable company, the gas company, the mortgage, the car.....

106. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #109042 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 8:05 am

How many people are actually reading money, though? If you have the time to inspect bills other than to note what denomination you are using, I think you may need a hobby. If you're dumb enough to sit and stare at a five dollar bill, chances are you won't get any sort of atheist message through your thick cranium anyway.

107. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #109036 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 7:52 am

Regarding god on our money, I heard Chris Rock say something somewhat profound about how god is really only mentioned in the public sphere nowadays on our money. Americans worship money. I think this is generally true, especially for the god crowd. Notice how much they love money, and how much god needs your money? Didn't their imaginary whipping boy tell them to throw away all their earthly possessions? I say that if that's the biggest accomplishment they have to point to, let them have it. I don't care if it mentions Big Bird or the Jabberwock on the money, I'm still going to use it the same way and I'm still not going to believe these (non)entities are real.

108. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #109031 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 7:26 am

"Evolution says we were once monkeys and now we're human."

"I really don't find this that much of a stretch. Better no doubt if stated "evolution says we were once LIKE monkeys and now we're human." Like monkeys we were, like monkeys we in many respects remain."

It is a stretch, because the theory of evolution by natural selection says no such thing. Yes, we are like monkeys, but I don't understand what "still" is supposed to mean. We were always like monkeys, and we'll always be like monkeys, because we share a common ancestor with monkeys. But monkeys and humans were never the same thing, and will never be the same thing.

109. US 'doomed' if creationist president elected: scientists

Comment #108997 by mikecbraun on January 8, 2008 at 6:08 am

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but I saw Huckabee on the Colbert Report (soft 't' on the end), and he said, and I quote, "Evolution says we were once monkeys and now we're human." I was dumbfounded at the idea that someone could be so stupid and ignorant. I don't think he's fuzzing the facts. I actually think this is how that 47% of the U.S. understands (loose term) evolution. What is it about common ancestry that is so hard to understand? What he said, to me, is like saying I was once my grandfather, but then I turned into myself, and that doesn't make sense, so I don't believe in genealogy.

110. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107434 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 1:58 pm

"Terrorists have no honor? sure they do. They are humans the same as the rest of us. Except usually of darker complexion..."
I assume this last remark is sarcasm, in which case it is a strawman. There are tons of terrorists who aren't of dark complexion, and you have a rather snooty view of me if you think that I believe this is not the case. The worst single terrorist act in the U.S. was carried out by a natural-born, white man. If it's not sarcasm, then it's racism, in which case I can't help you. And our definitions of honor must be quite different, because I find nothing honorable in how McVeigh or any of the 9/11 assholes lived or ended their lives.

"There are many Christians who object to abortion as much as the bombers do, but they don't resort to violence. Why not? They are fundamentalists, they hate abortion clinics and Dr.'s yet don't resort to violence."
Of course this is the case, but that does not mean that religion does not cause violence. Let's take a look at mental illness. It causes suicide in some patients. Do all people with mental illness commit suicide? Of course not. So what's your point? That religion either always has to cause to violence or it can never cause violence? Strange line of reasoning.

By the way, I accidentally hit the 'offensive' button on one of your posts, so if you get some sort of admonishment, you can point them to this post as evidence of your innocence.

111. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107419 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 1:21 pm

Your statement is the illogical one. Religion does not cause violence. So, the bombing of abortion clinics is caused by people whose honor has been violated? Sounds suspect.

112. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107417 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 1:18 pm

al-rawandi is right here in my mind, not holding past or current U.S. regimes accountable for their crimes is like looking the other way when a policeman violates the law.

113. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107414 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 1:16 pm

Bullets don't cause injury or death, they just incite it. It's the big friggin' hole in your body that causes injury. Or is it the other way around? I forgot. Have a good weekend my fellow peoples who enjoy a good argument.

114. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107411 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 1:14 pm

Terrorist have no honor. If they did, they wouldn't have to blow up innocent people to send a 'message'. Religion causes plenty of violence. I don't buy that 'religion doesn't cause violence' argument. Never have, never will.

115. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107408 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 1:11 pm

Let's take this back to Huckabee and Chuck Norris. Has anyone taken a look at Chuck's website? It's quite self-congratulatory, with a very creepy "Christian area" that's worth a look if you're in need of a good chuckle. Of course, nothing beats the above picture of Chuck for that.

116. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107406 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 1:06 pm

A lot of good thoughts and points.
Quill: As Americans, we're automatically misconstrued as Imperialists and assholes. Get used to it.
Anna: If only it were to happen, we could breathe a large sigh of relief.
Rtambree: As a last resort after all other means have been exhausted, and if you were able to effectively prove your case afterwards to a UN court, yes, this is sort of what I'm advocating (in theory, if you have not already divined that. I don't think this would ever really work in practice--like communism). Preferably the violence is carried out once the criminal is extracted FROM the harboring country. Any country must be prepared to face extreme consequences if in error, of course.
al-rawandi: Then it's good I'm a law-abiding citizen! I agree wholeheartedly with your economics comment. But we would still have the problem of terrorism, even if everyone were economically content. Why? Religion is one major reason.
Hopefully I'm not coming across as a whackjob, because I'm quite a sane person! I just think that in very extreme cases, a violent criminal should be apprehended, no matter what. How can we accomplish it? Hopefully it's through cooperation and mutual consent, but if not, what then? It doesn't seem satisfying to let such a person roam free, without facing any consequences, does it?

117. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107381 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:47 pm

"In essence, what you're saying is "Might is right, like it or lump it, America Right or Wrong".

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that evidence of wrong-doing and taking the necessary steps to bring criminals, especially violent, international criminals to justice are the thing. Call me old-fashioned! It doesn't matter what country you're from, you deserve justice. Your anti-America blinders just won't let you read into what I say. I think my country's policies are at least around 50% misguided or incorrect.

118. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107378 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:44 pm

So it's not important to punish criminals? I want you as my neighbor. Maybe you've got that plasma TV I want, and you won't do anything about it when I kick your door down to take it. No, killing one Nazi won't bring back the victims, but it will rid the world of one Nazi. That's quite a good thing in my book. You seem quite hung up on the Israel/Palestine thing, by the way.

119. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107376 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Or was it Argentina?

120. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107372 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:38 pm

"So Palestinians are free to come to the US and kill or capture US lawmakers because they blindly fund a violent and illegal Israeli occupation.

I am glad we agree. Good talk."

I would think if overwhelming evidence pointed to the fact that some person caused a great amount of suffering and harm to innocent people, they may have what was coming to them if they suddenly found themselves whisked away to sunny Gaza on a red-eye flight. The Mosad do it, the SAS do it, the CIA do it, the FSB do it, the list is endless. If you live in a fantasy world where international justice is not extracted without permission when needed, I don't want to upset you. But the real world the rest of us live in has this sort of thing taking place all of the time, whether you like it or not. How do you think they laid the law on all of those Nazi war criminals Brazil was harboring after WWII? I'm happy they were brought to justice.

121. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107370 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:33 pm

"mikecbraun,


So Palestinians are free to come to the US and kill or capture US lawmakers because they blindly fund a violent and illegal Israeli occupation.

I am glad we agree. Good talk."


You're obviously very good at taking the slightest discussion point, skewing it, and running with it. Ever thought of becoming a religious fundie? They could use someone of your skill. As with all things, there would obviously need to be guidelines and reason involved. Otherwise, Chuck Norris would have to be called in to intervene.

122. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107368 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:31 pm

"mikecbraun,

Now. Let's say this country claims this person is a criminal. It is someone you know and they kidnap him. Is that a good deal? You trust this govt. to determine who is a 'criminal'. That is a subjective term.

Rtambree would consider CEO's of some corporations criminals, I might not. Whose definition is right?"

I won't step in that bear trap. I don't roll with people who have even the remote possibility of being confused with international criminals, thank you.

123. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107365 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:28 pm

#107245 by Quill:
"Ideally, I'm sure Obama would want to work out some kind of deal with Pakistan so that they would allow us to do that legally. But if I were President, and I knew bin-Laden was in Pakistan and vulnerable, I would at least consider sending a team in. Yes it's a sovereign country, but there are other considerations aside from international law. If it came to light that Spanish authorities had conducted a secret raid against a wanted global terrorist somewhere in Colorado, I would not be upset over it. Sure it's a bit rude, but it's not an invasion."
Just to show I'm not making stuff up. I see this as being along the lines of what I said. It's tough to iron out specifics, but in theory I think it's okay to take matters into your own hands if noone is helping you. We won't get into the obvious moral quandaries, but if there was concrete evidence of terrorism and the chance was there to take out a suspect without the help or authorization of a government, I think you still have to take the chance of offending the harboring nation to mete out justice.

124. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107359 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:22 pm

I can't believe nobody's mentioned the most important part of this whole story: The picture of Chuck Norris, circa "Invasion U.S.A." That is one of the worst movies of all time. Look at his muppet-like facial hair, his glistening chest, his sleeveless jean shirt, and his tiny machine guns that he needs to keep on slings because his arms are too weak to hold them up for very long. He uses those two pea-shooters to stave off an invasion, of course. I don't remember if they were Russians (played by Poles) or if they were some other nationality we know little about in these here United States, but nothing can get past Chuck's mullet or the giant flag that always follows him.

125. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107354 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 12:17 pm

I agree that the U.S. harbors some bad people as well. I'm with Quill on this one. If the U.S. is not cooperating with a country on handing over a terrorist or nefarious criminal, that country should use stealth to kidnap said criminal and take care of him/her off of U.S. soil.

126. Can Atheists Be Parents?

Comment #107333 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 11:59 am

Ah, I did not notice that this was from 1970. Thanks for the heads-up. Scary how it can easily be misconstrued as having happened yesterday...

127. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107327 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 11:55 am

If you have a backward, violence-soaked country like Afghanistan or Pakistan that harbors terrorists and refuses to deal with international criminals upon request, I think at some point taking action without said country's approval within their borders could be justified.

128. Huckabee: Guns, God and rock'n'roll

Comment #107310 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 11:32 am

Quote #107246 by Athos:
"Annabanana -- I think it's very fair to question whether experience really matters. On the other hand, I don't feel that I should be allowed to perform brain surgery tomorrow because I'm a generally capable person. The notion that the presidential position is unique in that experience doesn't really matter seems extremely suspect to me."

Beautiful strawman. I don't feel you should be allowed to perform brain surgery tomorrow, either, unless you've gone through the proper schooling and surgery simulators. How does this compare with political service? Anyone can be a politician. It does not require any special schooling or skill, other than the ability to get people to like you and agree with what you tell them. Experience in the political arena is quite the opposite of experience in other fields: It usually leads to complacency, corruption, and general uselessness. Just look at Ted Kennedy.

129. Can Atheists Be Parents?

Comment #107299 by mikecbraun on January 4, 2008 at 11:23 am

Disgusting.

130. Man and God

Comment #103363 by mikecbraun on December 25, 2007 at 9:36 am

"This, surely, is where the new militant atheism is wrong. It is totalitarian in its prescription for human happiness. It would deny as unscientific the spiritual dimension that is as truly Darwinian in its evolution and persistence as patterns of behaviour or genetics... Those modish atheists who claim to understand the panoply of religious experience, or myth as they would have it, are, in the words of a critic, like "someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is The Book of British Birds"."

Strange, I never caught a whiff of a prescription for happiness in any of these extraordinarily militant (sarcasm) books that we all enjoy. Spiritual leanings are rather unscientific, in that they cannot be quantified or observed in the same way that genes can be. They also are rather unevolved, as modern-day theists seem to be no more enlightened than their Iron Age counterparts (those who seem to be are actually held in check by our secular societies and their own cowardice that keeps them from putting their money where their mouths are). Since when did persistence of a belief really count for anything anyway? There are morons who still believe that people of a different skin color are subhuman. Do we feel this is legitimate, my dear author? Is it true because it has persisted for so long? I would hope not. And as to the last point, I guess the author forces himself or herself to have no opinion on anything they are not an expert in. I trust they have read every religious text that ever was and have experienced every sort of religious experience there is... no? How's that for the pot and the kettle, then?

131. 2 fleas for the Christmas week

Comment #103311 by mikecbraun on December 25, 2007 at 4:19 am

'Furthermore, atheism is typically
associated with slightly pathological behaviour - one study found that a large
proportion of atheists had absent or weak fathers. If you have no loving father on
Earth, it is hard to believe you have a loving father in heaven.'

Did it occur to the idiot making the above statement that this may be due to the fact that a large portion of people in general have/had absent or weak fathers, and you can dilute it down to whatever group you're studying? For instance, one could take the converse route with this "reasoning" and say that the reason a large proportion of theists need their fairy daddy in the sky is because real daddy wasn't there. Hence, they were faced with the task of making up an imaginary one, but they were too stupid and unimaginative to do so. Luckily, the work had already been done for them, so they converted to christianity. In any case, I know they don't speak for this monkey--my dad is the person who has taught me the most and influenced me the most, and I owe a huge debt of gratitude to him for giving me the skills and confidence to seek truth and use reason and logic to guide my life.

132. Does fundamentalist religion cause the rejection of evolution? or is it the other way around?

Comment #80295 by mikecbraun on October 21, 2007 at 7:21 am

The whole idea that something is "counterintuitive" to religious folk is amusing to me. For people with retarded intuitive powers, is not everything counterintuitive? Why should we be surprised that people who think prayer can cure them from deadly diseases can't understand evolution?

133. Imagine No Religion

Comment #61728 by mikecbraun on August 6, 2007 at 2:14 pm

Religion does NOT give hope to the hopeless, on the contrary, I think it makes them more hopeless. A hopeless inner struggle of questioning every thought and every action and wondering, "Is this what god would want me to do?" "Am I going to hell?" "Are my family members going to hell?" Forcing this hopelessness on others, especially children, is a great evil. Unfortunately, our children are empty vessels waiting to be filled with others' racist beliefs, religious beliefs, etc. We can't keep them under our protection at all times to filter out the garbage and keep them pure in the quest for truth (pure in the sense that they can wait until an age when they can come to conclusions for themselves). Therein lies the evil of society: influence. The drug dealer, the priest, the racist all have almost equal time with our kids. Parents who hold these poisonous beliefs have carte blanche with their kids, and thus the vicious cycle will continue, which is a shame. Rationality, atheism, and science will always have a struggle. Let's hope that it will not always be an uphill struggle!