101. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #15233 by down_under on December 29, 2006 at 7:17 pm

Theo

you alo said

"D_U, historians use secondary sources for a significant quantity of their information. As I said before, the most common instances where those secondary sources are questioned is when their content is not in accordance with the beliefs of the examiners."


this is all false info

who told you this???

You are brainwashed!!

To be honest ivehad enough of arguing with brainwashed idiots like this


BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS!!!!!!



You do have a point but all info is checked and re-checked and bias anyway!!!!
The Bible is just a book regardless!!!

im pulling my hair out here!!!

102. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #15232 by down_under on December 29, 2006 at 7:14 pm

Theo!!!

you said

"As for the bible not having hard originals, I think you missed the point. The point is there are other historical documents that are NOT ORIGINALS YET ACCEPTED."

YES but not many!!! ost historical records are hard originals!! The bible isnt!!
So YOU missed the point!!!
Retard

103. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #15231 by down_under on December 29, 2006 at 7:13 pm

Theo -


No offence mat, but who ever educated you is a retard.....im sorry but iv had enough of being polite to idiots like you
i cant belive what you just said and frankly i think you livein the southern US as its the only place left on Earth where anyonewould belvie what you just said

104. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #15230 by down_under on December 29, 2006 at 7:10 pm

Sorry to sound upset but im FED UP wit theists who simply ignore what they cannot answer!!
you all do it!!!
the whole point of this forum is so theists can question their belifes (and atheists to) but the athiests are always willing to question
the theists just seem to ignore what they cant explain....which is alot!!! (of their belifes!!!!)

GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER THEISTS!!!!

105. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #15229 by down_under on December 29, 2006 at 7:08 pm

OK THEISTS LISTEN UP!!!!!!!

I find alot of Theists are IGNORING NLHB's comments about how evil the bible is!!!

why?!?!

Maybe because you have no answer to defend the filththatr is in the bible.



ALSO THEISTS!!!

You have ALL ignored mine and Billys points about ancient Gods that have a story identical to Jesus (ALL that predate Jesus)
I wonder why??
Perhaps bacause you cant answer???
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

106. The Komodo Dragon's Tale

Comment #14538 by down_under on December 23, 2006 at 3:56 am

And there is the interesting fact that up until around 10,000 years ago the Australian Aboriginals lived alongside the huge monster that was (Megalania Prisca) (sorry folks dont know how to do italic!) the largest lizard EVER to have lived! (Dinosaurs were not actually lizards).

107. The Komodo Dragon's Tale

Comment #14535 by down_under on December 23, 2006 at 3:51 am

I think the Dragon myth came from a number of different factors including Komodo Dragons.

However,

It is also important to remember that the Ancient Chinese used to dig up dinosaur bones for medicine, and (you cant really blame them for the mistake) thought they were the bones of Dragons.

And a new theory for explaining the ledgend of Saint George and the Dragon is that an explorer bought back a crocodile from Egypt which George then went and killed, all witnesses (including Geroge himself) would easily mistake this huge reptile for a Dragon, given the timeline.

108. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #14329 by down_under on December 22, 2006 at 3:58 am

I hadnt seen that video before its great! haha
I had hjeard of Mithra though yes (interestingly the capital of Mithran Society was where the vatican stands now)
But there are many moe man-gods, all that predate Jesus with very similar stories

Horus (also known as AMEN Ra)
Mithra
Osiris (who along with Isis and Horus makeup the trinity)
Dionysus
Buddah
Krishna

and many more

sadley many Christians view these websites and books with the "fingers in the ears, eyes closed humming lalalala i cant hear you lalalala jesus is real lalalala" attitude.

Interesting how so many Christians can view Horus, Osiris, Mithra, Baal, Dionysus etc etc as nothing more than mythology yet still so strongly belive in Jesus.

Also has anyone ever seen an Egyptian temple to Horus? Looks remarkably ike a Church! Crucifixes and all!!

109. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #14247 by down_under on December 21, 2006 at 4:10 pm

Jon G

You stated...

"D_U
If I wanted to feel as important as you suggest I imagine I wouldn't be a Christian, i'd be Bono or something...
hmm, another "Christian", probably not the best example...
But seriously, the road to self importance isn't made easy by taking the Christian route - what with selflessness, humility, personal sacrifice - i don't recomend it..."


You missed my point completly!
people who need to feel they hve a reason for being here want to feel important so they CHOOSE to belive God put them here for whatever reason

You cant CHOOSE to be Bono now can you? (if you can id like to know how!)
However you can CHOOSE to belive that God put yo here for a reason......see where im going with this?
and dont go with the whole free will thing
god saying "you have free will to belive in me but you will go to hell if you dont" is almost like a robber putting a gun to your head and saying "you have free will to give me your wallet but if you dont il shoot you" not really free will is it

i, on the other hand as i said, dont have a big enough ego to feel like theres a purpose for me by some almighty being.

Also, why must you belive in a God to be selfless?
I myslef alays do my best to help my fellow man, my atheist friend even recently put his own life on the line to help victims of a car accident, he has no faith in a God but is a very nice, selfless generous man

Perhaps Athiests just have more faith in Humanity than people who need a fear of eternal punshment or wanting for an eternal reward just to behave morally.

And as i enjoy traditional holidays despite disagreeing with their origins i do celebrate xmas, i just enjoy the good feel and spirit of giving, recieving and family, i belive the story of xmas is nothing more than a fairytale recycled from the story ofthe ancient Egyptian man-god horus (who predates jesus by several thousand years, u may want to look him up!) but i still celebrate xmas, i obviously just dont go with the nativity side of things or step foot in a church

Note: Is it a co-incidence that Christians consider themselves gods "Sheep"?

But as you are obviously Christian so this time of year is not only about the spirit of xmas but also the story and spiritual side
I will wish you a Merry Christmas and sincerly hope you have a good one :-)

110. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13937 by down_under on December 20, 2006 at 7:14 am

Jon G

Also in adition to my "why" argument

If i was so insecure and felt so irrelavant that I did need a reason to feel important, ie A reason we are here
Just because i do not know what it is, does not mean god put me here!

Christian "Why are we here?"
Atheist "I dont know"
Christian "ah see! so there is a God!!"
Atheist ".....eh?!......"

Tell me exactywhatdo christians belive? Why do you think we are here?
If your aswer is "to love and serve God" then that would mean that God put us here, just so we could worship him?
A little bit of bigotry perhaps on gods part?

If God was so desperate for worship and love that he created us just for that purpose then i do not feel he is worthy of worship

Christian "Why are we here"
Atheist "Why not?!"
Christian "What is our reason for existance"
Atheist "there isnt one"
Christian "But what if there is"
Atheist "Well if i ever find out, i'l let you know!"

111. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13933 by down_under on December 20, 2006 at 6:33 am

To NLHB

totally agree, people who take the bible word for word are VERy dangerous!
Not just godhatesfags.com but also

www.godhatesamerica.com
www.godhatessweden.com
www.godhatescanada.com

truly appalling!! all from people who take the bible literally

also has anyone ever read the punishments for the 10 commandments?!?!? extreamly harsh!!! usually involving death, stoning, burning! terrible!
which is a bit contradictory as one of the commandments is "thou shalt not kill"

112. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13932 by down_under on December 20, 2006 at 6:27 am

Mark

"Sorry if this seems "loony", but the impression I've received is that the perpetrators of 9/11 claimed Allah as their God and the Quran as their holy book, rather than Yahweh and the Bible...?"

Yesthat is ofcourse true, however it is interesting to note that Christians,Jews and Muslims all worship the SAME God!

The only difference is in the interpretations and messages and meanings etc etc (perhaps because they're so innacurate??? perhaps because they were ritten by people not an almighty being??)

113. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13929 by down_under on December 20, 2006 at 6:21 am

Shaun

No worries, i too know what its like to be ridiculously busy

I will sroll through all the posts and try to copy and paste arugments that i feel you have not yet answered yet,
sadley there are ALOT of posts to read through before i can find the relevant posts :-S (popular forum! he he)

please be patient and i will also be more patient myself in the future :-)

114. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13927 by down_under on December 20, 2006 at 6:15 am

Jon G

'My' scientists are wrong - 'yours' are right?
Yours are qualified, mine are not? (does that mean that all non-atheist scientists are not qualified to debate this argument?)

I admit it does seem like thats what isaid, however you still have yet to back up many ofyour claims
And Atheist scientists tend to use the best of their scientific knowledge, (Many)Christian scientists use the best of their scientific knowledge as long as it doesnt go against God, that is the point I was making
If you dont want to agree with me thats fine I see little point in arguing it and im sure thats something we can both agree on.

you said

"If you go back to the original point (post 422) I followed that statement with, ' it's not a reason for faith, but it is interesting...'"

True.....but if it is not a reason for faith then why would you mention it here?


"- but apparently 'we' are not even allowed to quote from the Bible now so what kind of debate is that..?" My answer - A Scientific debate!

I will also note it is only myself who is fed up with Christians quoting the bible, most oter atheists will respond to your quotes (usually with other bible quotes interestingly) to completle blow your argument out of the water

I personally dont wate tme arguing with an irrelavant book
If i so chose to im sure i could find reasons to belive in Allah, Ganesh, Buddah or even Ra and Zeus that follow with the exact same reasons you belive in God and the Bile
in fact if you would like me to (and if i get the time) i will research this further

"Scientists - Archaeologists - 'mankind' in general, changes it's mind"
- YES EXACTLY!!!! that is the point i was making!!! Science etc changes as ew evidence and facts etc come to light! its how we progress, advance, evolve!! thats why in 1650 travelling faster than 40mph would scientifically kill you yet now we travel several times the speed of sound!
that is why 1000 years ago the world was flat but we now sail around it etc etc
The fact that "God" does not change his mind, from a book written over 1000 years ago, is proof enough of its inaccuracy, as i said before

Science changes to suit the facts
Religion changes the facts to suit themselves


you say "the bible supports itself"? when infact the opposite is true
Ifyou belive the bible s truebecause God says so an that God is real because the Bible says so then im afraid your stuck in a ridculous loop

As for "Why" are we here, why must there be a reason, we are here because we are here, "why" are elephants here?
"why" are bees here?
"why" is SARS here?
"why" is the planetoid Pluto there?

Unlike thiests i do not need a reason to be here to be happy
im very happy that i am here and enjoy and live my life to the full, but i dont need a specific reason to be here, anyone who does just needs to feel important, thats just a little bit sad, in my opinion.

115. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13923 by down_under on December 20, 2006 at 5:58 am

Tremayne

Just because we are not 100% sure exactly how the universe came to be, that does not mean an almighty being created it
to say "oh we dont know how this works so it must be god" is very medieval

An if God created the universe, what created God, surly a being so mighty and complex couldnt come from nothing......

116. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13824 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 2:27 pm

A quick thankyou toeveryone (even shaun) who helped with the "loosing posts" dilemma

117. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13822 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 2:21 pm

Shaun:

PLEASE stop using Bibe quotes to prove your point!!!
we do not take the bible as any evidence because (as We earlier debated, won the debate and now you ignore the debate) it is not a reliable scource, it is nothing more than stories

And from reading your points you seem to just ignore what you cant explain, any reason for this???

118. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13819 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 2:13 pm

* dfhis belives = defy his beliefs

I apologise to everyone for my grammer and typos but i am very tired!!

119. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13818 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 2:12 pm

Brian Coughlan:

You have pointed out (and I have noticed) that shaun simply ignores anythig he cannot explain, answer or something that seems to dfhis belives

I think this is something to do with keeping his faith by alwas having one eye (at least!) closed
he is not the1st theist I have pointed this out too but most simply choose to ignore that I have pointed it out to them! (ironic isnt it!)

120. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13776 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 11:17 am

Shauntheboy


I was going to reply to your post but it seems other people have done it for me and much better than I could have done myself!

Thank you billy ad NLHB, you both make alot of sense

121. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13772 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 11:11 am

Theo

you said

"If I am not mistaken you have an issue with oral tradition which is an accepted historical method"


No it isnt an accepted historical method?!?! Where on Earth did you get this misguided belief from?? Your bible no doubt

122. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13770 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 11:07 am

Theo

So you admt there is no HARD ORIGINAL BIBLE, the earliest copy, which you openly admitted was a copy was written over 100 years after Jesus was born (and thats just the NT, so the OT must be waaay out of date)

so thank you fo prooving my point completly

The Romans who mention Jesus, im glad you mentioned those particular Authors, check out this website

http://www.truthbeknown.com/pliny.htm

Pliny the younger never once mentioned "jesus" by name or title (messiah)

Flavius Josephus mentioned Jesus but only from word of mouth, he did not actually see jesus himself, nor did he belive jesus to be the messaih.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

and Christians have actually forged many documents by these authors to try and use it as proof of Christ!
Most documents mentioning Chirst have been deemed un-authentic

As for Cornelius Tacitus (AD 55-120), and Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas (secretary to Emperor Hadrian (AD 117-138)

Please use your commen sense and read when they were alive, then think of how old Jesus was when he died......I will say no more on that!

And for the ONE bible quote Thess 5:21 , that just made me laugh as you are trying to apply it to this argument

123. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13767 by down_under on December 19, 2006 at 10:50 am

I cant belive it!
i wrote a whole post and the dman thing didnt go through!! very annoying!!

Anyway

Jon G Comment 421 -
By offiial i mean written by people prooven to have existed writting verifiable history, and as for the Roman records that mention Jesus? please provide Links, are these by any chance bias Christians claiming these records exist?

422 -
"D_U, Sorry, it's not as simple as science v's Religion because (as previously discussed at length - go to post 63) not all scientists are atheists!"

It is as simple as science vs religion as science disprooves alot of relgious claims
Not all scientists are atheists no but the ones who belive in God tend to be from fields irrelavent to the argument or
1) Dont belive in the bible (which is what we were debating)
2) are widely discredited


"Unfortunately getting archaeologists to agree is like trying to get scientists to agree (and theists for that matter) so one person having a preference for one time-line doesn't make it 'fact'"

Scientists disagree bacuse they are trying to work out the facts, this is a good thing, if ALL scientists agreed on everything we could end up in a medival world where everybody worships a higher being......
Scientists disagreeing means points are made about theorys to progress science
As for Archaelogists it is the same story about trying to piece together entire histories from tiny fragments accuratly

And Christian Archaelogists have been known to destroy artifacts that could potentially disproove Christianity.


"Interestingly, no one has been able to categorically prove the Bible a fake as a result of archaeology.
Now, what are the chances of that given the amount of time that the Bible has been around, you'd have thought they'd have found something by now to indefinitly trip it up?"

The classic "it cant be dis-prooven so it must be real" argument,

how about i reverse it:
In all the time sence the bible has supposidly been around you'd think we could definatly proove its existance??

besides you cant diproove stories, Proove to me beyond a doubt that Harry Potter didnt infact happen?

And as for tripping the bible up, well many things have "tripped the bible up"

Evoloution
Dinosaurs
The Big Bang
Aboriginals (have been livingin Australia for approx 60,000 years)
Entire galaxies millions of light years away
the fact that the universe is at least 13 Billion years old
the fact that the earth is approx 4.6 billion years old

And many more.......

124. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13329 by down_under on December 17, 2006 at 5:00 am

Theo

1 Egyptian tablet of a knife cutting water is hardley evidence of Moses and the Jews (the statement you just made is another one of those times i was telling you about where i physically laugh)

And i am still awaiting you hard proof of exodus
and the romans mentioning Jesus

you seem to ignore alot of statements that go against your belief

125. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #13229 by down_under on December 16, 2006 at 9:43 am

Also (i know its alot to ask and i apologise)
but if you ever get the chance to visit Egypt see if you can find a temple of horus
You will see that the symbol of horus was a cross, not unlike christianities symobl; due to the crucifixtion of Horus.

126. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13226 by down_under on December 16, 2006 at 9:31 am

Note:

Why do no official Ancient Egyptian Records mention Moses or the Jews?

Why do no official Ancient Roman records mention Jesus?

The Egyptians and the Romans are renowned for recording everything that happened in their civiliations, you'd think the parting of water or the son of God would atlease get a Sub-heading

127. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13223 by down_under on December 16, 2006 at 9:27 am

Theo -

Im not sure what hard evidence of exodus you talk of, please show this evidence rather than just mentioning it
As for "skeptics" finding an explanation, they probably foudn an explanation because there was an explanation there to be found, we use science therefore cannot be wrong

As for histroy books being copies of translations etc etc

Well thats a completley diffeent issue, history is bias anyway and therefore not always 100% accurate
Plus the history references are HARD ORIGINAL copies normally stored in places such as Rome or London, please show where the HARD ORIGINAL copy of the bible is......
Not only all of this but history is constantly recorded by councils and people reporting what they see, dated, stored etc etc and do not start life as oral stories as the bible did
furthermore history does not try to explain
the creation of the universe
the start of mankind
the start of life
etc etc (you get the idea) hence why these subjects are called "PRE-HISTROY"

Pre-Histroy is studied by science

In the debate of the existance of God it is Science vs relgion NOT History, and Science has an overwhelming advantage

If it was History vs the bible....then i'l admit you (almost) have a point, as i admitted history is not 100% accurate, however for the reasons listed i still KNOW (not belive i will point out) that the written history by offcially recognised people, is more accurate than the bible

please see reason, i honestly laugh at the statements some theists make, i wonder how your mind works because it is certainly very closed

128. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13189 by down_under on December 16, 2006 at 4:51 am

Thank you Billysands

I knew there had to be at least one prophecy that hadnt come true

my point was Mark was merely pointing out that ones that (apparantly) had come true simply ignoring the ones that havnt

129. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13084 by down_under on December 15, 2006 at 9:48 am

Hey the weather man predicted the weather right!!!! i must bow down and worship him for he is our lord

130. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #13083 by down_under on December 15, 2006 at 9:46 am

Mark...........

The bible is not credibal for several reasons, read the quote below to note just a few...

""In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."
It's an oral history. It was passed down, word-of-mouth, father to son, from Adam to Seth, from Seth to Enos, from Enos to Cainan, for 40 generations, a growing, changing, story, it was handed down, word-of-mouth, father to son. Until Moses finally gets it down on lambskin. But lambskins wear out, and need to be recopied. Copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
From Hebrew it's translated into Arabic, from Arabic to Latin, from Latin to Greek, from Greek to Russian, from Russian to German, from German to an old form of English that you could not read. Through 400 years of evolution of the English language to the book we have today, which is: a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
You can't put a grocery list through that many translations, copies, and re-telling, and not expect to have some big changes in the dinner menu when the kids make it back from Kroger's.
And yet people are killing each other over this written word"


now not only that but you are basing the excistance of God solely on the bibles credibility and the bibles credibility solely on its "prohpecies"

may i just say that "ANYONE" can predict a prophecy and have it eventually come true, especially prophicies that at the time were obvious and many are self-fulfiling anyway!!
care to list the bible prophecies that HAVN'T come true???

Not only that but apparatnly Nostradaumus has gotten ALOT of phrophecies right, so does this mean Nostradaumus is God???

If you still arent convinced after reading that then im sorry but you are beyond hope and you are blind to reason (like alot of people who have blind faith)

131. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #12915 by down_under on December 14, 2006 at 11:17 am

Heres a nice little video for all you hard-core creationists who belive that the bible is to be taken litterally as the word of God.......

By famous and hilarious atheist comedian Ricky Gervais, if you are a creationist you may not want to watch this as it makes too much sense and will probably open your eyes to reason....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7520848619246996399

132. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #12914 by down_under on December 14, 2006 at 11:15 am

Heres a good question for theists

WHERE is Heaven????
WHERE is Hell???

People once belived heaven was in the sky, hell below our feet......science has prooved that the sky is nothing but clouds, air, gas and atmosphere, below our feet is the Earths crust, mantle and core.....

133. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #12909 by down_under on December 14, 2006 at 10:20 am

I will not that many Egyptologists will disagree on the certainties as to wether

1. horus did infact have 12 disciples
2. Horus walked on water
3. horus was born to a virgin

however most Egyptologists agree on the rest of what I have written and nearly all will say jesus is simply copied from Horus

You may email an Egyptologist if you dont belive me

134. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #12908 by down_under on December 14, 2006 at 10:16 am

I am aware that Osiris has similarities with Jesus
However I am talking about Horus, son of Osiris, who is almost identical to Jesus.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

Bud.ERR -- Budge, E. Wallis. . 1961.

Fraz.AAO -- Frazer, J. G. Adonis, Attis, Osiris. 1961.

Griff.OO -- Griffith, J. Gwyn. The Origins of Osiris and His Cult. Brill: 1996.

Meek.DL -- Meeks, Dimitri. Daily Life of the Egyptian Gods. 1996.

Short.EG -- Shorter, Alan. Egyptian Gods: A Handbook. 1937.

http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJesusandHorus74.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html

135. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #12720 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 11:38 am

The correct answer is ofcourse, obviously Horus, the egyptian man god, son of Isis and Osiris......what?.....who?......Jesus???? Noooo dont be silly, the story of Horus was written 5000 years ago, 3000 years before this "jesus" you speak of.
you dont belive in horus? but you belive in jesus? odd??

Thats right folks the myth of jesus was copied from an almost identical story written by the egyptians,
Horus, also known as Harcesis, Herur or Amen-Ra was the Son of Isis and Osiris, born to the Virgin Mai on the winter soltisce under a shining star witnessed by shepards.
Horus's father Seph was a carpenter, Horus was baptised by Anu the baptiser in a river, Horus was the king of egypt, lamb of the gods and savior to mankind.
He performed many miracles including the feeding of the masses, walking on water and rising the dead.
he had 12 diciples
There is no mention of Horus life in his teens or early 20's
Horus was eventually captured by his enemies and crucified, he was buried in a tomb but was ressurected 3 days later where he accended into the sun to be with the supream sun God "Ra"

So Christians you can either accept Jesus is a copy of Horus and accept Horus as your God or belive the Egyptians copied the Chirstian story by building a time machine and traveling 3000 years into the future, or see reason and join the sane world

Its also interesting to note that Horus was not the 1st, there was a Sumerian Man-God with a very similar story and a few hundred years before Jesus the Persians belived in Mithra, Mithra was actually born on December 25th and the captial of Mithran society stood where the vatican stands now......funny that

136. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #12716 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 11:28 am

Heres a nice little riddle

I was born to a virgin on the winter solstice

I was born in a stable with shepards as a witness under a shining star

I was the lamb of the gods and the savior to humanity

I was the king of my people

I walked on water

I fed the masses

I rose a man from the dead

I had 12 diciples

I was killed by my enemies by means of crucifixtion

I was buried in a tomb but was ressurected 3 days later

When people pray to me they finish their prayer with the word "Amen"

Who am I?

137. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #12714 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 11:24 am

About the video, whilst i agree with mostly what it says
it does take a rather ignorant approach towards dealing with theists, although religion has no real benifits in the 21st century it did help create civilisation, dead religions simply become mythologys

im sure in about 10,000 years (if some holy war hasnt wiped us out) then people may hear the story of jesus whilst learning about ancient western mythology

but way back when all these religions started, they were needed

138. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #12713 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 11:21 am

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."
It's an oral history. It was passed down, word-of-mouth, father to son, from Adam to Seth, from Seth to Enos, from Enos to Cainan, for 40 generations, a growing, changing, story, it was handed down, word-of-mouth, father to son. Until Moses finally gets it down on lambskin. But lambskins wear out, and need to be recopied. Copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
From Hebrew it's translated into Arabic, from Arabic to Latin, from Latin to Greek, from Greek to Russian, from Russian to German, from German to an old form of English that you could not read. Through 400 years of evolution of the English language to the book we have today, which is: a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
You can't put a grocery list through that many translations, copies, and re-telling, and not expect to have some big changes in the dinner menu when the kids make it back from Kroger's.
And yet people are killing each other over this written word.



Some people just can't understand that they can't understand what they can't understand

139. The delusion of Christianity: Fairy tales that changed the world

Comment #12712 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 11:20 am

Once there was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time is called the Dark Ages



I previously have read lots of arugments for and against the exsistance of God and while the arguments against have lots of evidence, some concrete, some with alot of gaps, some simply circumstantional, i have seen no real evidence in the argument for gods existance.

Many people seem to have the mindset of " We dont understand fully how this works so it must be God" (the Eye and evoloution being 2 perfect examples)

That is how cavemen thought, that is how medival people thought, with the dangerous addition of "and we'll kill anyone who disagrees"

id much rather have the mindset of "we dont fully understand how this works, lets find out"

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than a mind closed by belief


As for the whole "science is full of theorys so its a faith" that argument is a waste of time

Theory is the best kind of science, why?
Because a theory is never prooven, therefore it is constantly tested.
Thousands of scientists trying to proove or disproove certain theorys everyday and improoving our understanding as they do so, Evoloution has passed all these tests with flying colours, it would be interesting to test gods existance in the same way

as for "everything is so complex so god started it" the universe is billions of years old, enough time for complex things to evolve
and if god done it then surly he is more complex which leads to the question what created God, surly he wasnt already there or just came about, he's too complex

140. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #12694 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 9:35 am

Some people just can't understand that they can't understand what they can't understand

141. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #12693 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 9:29 am

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters."
It's an oral history. It was passed down, word-of-mouth, father to son, from Adam to Seth, from Seth to Enos, from Enos to Cainan, for 40 generations, a growing, changing, story, it was handed down, word-of-mouth, father to son. Until Moses finally gets it down on lambskin. But lambskins wear out, and need to be recopied. Copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
From Hebrew it's translated into Arabic, from Arabic to Latin, from Latin to Greek, from Greek to Russian, from Russian to German, from German to an old form of English that you could not read. Through 400 years of evolution of the English language to the book we have today, which is: a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of an oral history passed down through 40 generations.
You can't put a grocery list through that many translations, copies, and re-telling, and not expect to have some big changes in the dinner menu when the kids make it back from Kroger's.
And yet people are killing each other over this written word.

142. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #12691 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 9:27 am

As for the whole "science is full of theorys so its a faith" that argument is a waste of time

Theory is the best kind of science, why?
Because a theory is never prooven, therefore it is constantly tested.
Thousands of scientists trying to proove or disproove certain theorys everyday and improoving our understanding as they do so, Evoloution has passed all these tests with flying colours, it would be interesting to test gods existance in the same way

as for "everything is so complex so god started it" the universe is billions of years old, enough time for complex things to evolve
and if god done it then surly he is more complex which leads to the question what created God, surly he wasnt already there or just came about, he's too complex

143. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #12688 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 9:21 am

I previously have read lots of arugments for and against the exsistance of God and while the arguments against have lots of evidence, some concrete, some with alot of gaps, some simply circumstantional, i have seen no real evidence in the argument for gods existance.

Many people seem to have the mindset of " We dont understand fully how this works so it must be God" (the Eye and evoloution being 2 perfect examples)

That is how cavemen thought, that is how medival people thought, with the dangerous addition of "and we'll kill anyone who disagrees"

id much rather have the mindset of "we dont fully understand how this works, lets find out"

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than a mind closed by belief

144. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #12687 by down_under on December 13, 2006 at 9:16 am

Once there was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time is called the Dark Ages