101. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159107 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 12:49 pm

"It'd be like whining that a teacher getting fired for being a pedophile is intolerance."

This is mixing up action and opinion again. Paedophilia is an offence against the person.

"Sorry, pedophiles ought not be teachers, and fascists ought not be in public office in a democracy." This is true but I don't think we can call Ms Davis a fascist just yet.

102. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159099 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 12:40 pm

movingshadow,

I think that teachers telling kids the world is 6000 years old may well make them bad teachers. The issue is still the same. They make their argument we keep on demolishing it. You win by force of argument. As for Bush's argument for war. What has that got to do with this?

103. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159091 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Dr Benway,

I don't think at any point I suggested we atheists should shut up when we are told to. I feel exactly the opposite. I just don't think we should be the ones advocating the banning of opinion by calling for people like Ms Davis to resign because they have an ill thought out point of view.

104. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159080 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 12:19 pm

"Who wants to punish her? What do you mean, I want them banned"? I don't want to kill her"

I think calling for Ms Davis' resignation for expressing an opinion is a punishment and a type of ban, as well as a form of censorship. I don't think anyone wants to kill her but they do want to see her pay some kind of price. That is not freedom of speech. People's commitment to freedom of speech is always tested in situations like this, it's the bigots opinions that are the hardest to bear. Either it's an absolute freedom or it's not a freedom. For example;

"Blow it out your ass, lady. "

I will have a good go at so blowing it.

105. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159068 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 12:04 pm

"Wow, that's...something..."

Yes that IS something. It's called Freedom of speech and what you described is exactly how it works. If you want to punish people based on something they have said what's the difference between you and the people issuing fatwas? If you don't like what they say by all means make the argument against them. If you want them banned just because you don't like what they say that's censorship. It's what they do. If someone is bad at their job that is a different matter altogether. In the example you cited, if someone is banning black people based on race that has crossed the line from being an opinion to being an act. Different thing. Making people take responsibility for their actions I can agree with.

106. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159061 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 11:48 am

"Ummm, what?"

Not sure what you want me to clarify.

107. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159054 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 11:33 am

"Should she be allowed to say blacks are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed in government? Of course. Keep her job after such statements? Hell no. "

Hell Yes. What does her opinion on any matter have to do with her performance in public office?

So where does accepting responsibility for what you say fit with the calls to kill Salman Rushdie or the Danish cartoonists? It's a nonsense. If people don't like what you say they have a right to reply not revenge. It's fine to call Ms Davis a bigot it's not fine to demand a pound of flesh because you don't like what she says. The people who have a right to call for her resignation are her constituents not everyone that she offends. If she is bad at her job they will dump her at the next election.

108. Inadequate, private and late apology with grotesquely inadequate excuse

Comment #159042 by BFKate on April 11, 2008 at 11:17 am

I think the calls for Ms. Davis to resign are thoroughly misguided. Isn't this exactly what freedom of speech is? The freedom to be as forthright and even rude if you want without having to fear reprisal? If representative Davis is forced to resign over the issue doesn't it become the same as the fundamentalists who call for the death of cartoonists or the closing of theaters because of blasphemy? She dropped a bollock as they say, leave her alone now. True colours are shining through and maybe just maybe she will learn something important.