101. Anti-evolution bill clears another hurdle

Comment #157186 by MelM on April 8, 2008 at 4:12 pm

"Florida Citizens for Science" web site.
http://www.flascience.org/wp/?p=534

I've been following the Florida situation for awhile. This is a very disappointing development. It's also very important because this "academic freedom" scam is being tried elsewhere.

"It's about religion." and "It's not about religion"

Orwellian doublethink maybe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

According to the novel, doublethink is:

" The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them . . . . To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies -- all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth."

102. Anti-evolution bill clears another hurdle

Comment #157174 by MelM on April 8, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Ending homeschooling is not a good idea.
Well, when the "Christian Nation" cult takes over all government funded education (including state universities) and decides the standards for credentialed teachers, there will be no place to go for atheists who want to save their kids from the nutters or just plain rotten education--like "feel good education." The home and private schools and organizions will be the last to go under the water and the last place to make a stand. I don't grant the state any right to take over kids education. I'll borrow a phrase from Hitchens and say that such a very short sighted move, just to apply a rod to the nutters, would be making a "rod for our own back."

California will reverse such a decision--I hope.
In fact, a California court in L.A. has recently made such a decision which would essentially do away with homeschooling in California. However, there is so much opposition to it that the decision will be revisited in June. I was appalled by the decision and hope it's overturned.

Government culture?
I'll never understand why people are willing to turn culture over to the political process then hope that somehow, it won't go against them. People should remember that Mrs Dick Cheney was head of the National Endowment For the Humanities from 1986 to 1993. Don't think the nutters will leave the state supported universities alone. When the time is ripe, they will be made Jesus friendly; there's simply no way the "Christian Nation" movement can win without taking control the state universities. Indeed, there is already a bill in-work in Minnesota to make universities safe for Jesus.

103. The Atheist Next Door

Comment #157099 by MelM on April 8, 2008 at 2:52 pm

"Where do you place your trust....?"

In March, there were two U.S. families who put there trust in the bishop's god. Their "prayer healing" for ill children didn't work; the kids died. Maybe this bishop should be reinterviewed; it would be interesting to see what puke he disgorges next time.

104. Protests no concern for outspoken atheist

Comment #155540 by MelM on April 4, 2008 at 5:40 pm

From Paula: I got the impression that there were a lot of people there who wouldn't necessarily identify themselves as atheists as such but who were sick and tired of having religion rammed down their throats and were delighted that someone was standing up to that at last - especially here of all places.

105. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #154878 by MelM on April 3, 2008 at 9:59 pm

I don't get it? What good would hiding in a cave be during the end of the world?

106. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #154813 by MelM on April 3, 2008 at 6:40 pm

OT

The Hitchens vs Hitchens debate in Michigan has just finished. The webcast was very good and Christopher was running with all cylinders firing every time, with plenty of ideas I'd not seen before. If there's a chance to see the video, I don't think you'll be disappointed. With Q&A, it was 2 hours. This is the best Hitchens I can recall.

107. Supreme Court to consider Ten Commandments vs. 'Seven Aphorisms'

Comment #154116 by MelM on April 2, 2008 at 5:27 pm

Please, no commandments; they contain an extra, implicit "don't think" commandment.

Instead, just state "Actions that I/we claim are good for you" with documentation of the supporting facts and arguments.

108. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153704 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 9:34 pm

Comment #153676 by corruptmemory, sorry for not replying sooner but I had to go out for awhile.

About SweatyPalmSunday, I was thinking that some of the comments could be spread around on anti-atheist sites and provide real ammunition against Dawkins.

About infanticide, I see it as murder-one and I think there actually has to be an intent to kill a child, which does happen in some very disgusting cases. What you say about the in-action is all very true. And, they could have noticed that the praying wasn't working; surely, if God was going to do something, it shouldn't take very long. Of course, if God can heal a child without a doctor's help, he can surely do it with the child in the hospital. Anyway, unless the Grand Jury can find an intent to kill and cover it up with "prayer-healing"--certainly a possibility--then I don't see how it could charge the parents with murder-one. Unless there are mitigating circumstances that come up at trial, I think these people will do some serious time and this sick cult will come to understand that the state of Oregon is serious about prosecution under the 1999 law. Another question about this cult is what happens to premature babies? Let them die and report something else?

Looking in Wikipedia, it seems that second-degree murder would be the worst charge for this. The article gives an example of a death under drunk driving resulting in second-degree murder.

Murder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Manslauter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter

I'm over my head here so I'll have to let the DA handle it. To quote again:

From KGW.com (April 1)
In court Monday, the Worthingtons were charged with manslaughter and criminal mistreatment. A grand jury concluded that the faith healing couple's refusal to get medical treatment for their sick toddler caused the child's death.

109. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153674 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 7:51 pm

Nova,

If you take too long to write your comment, you'll lose it. And sometimes I lose them by accident. So, once I get something started, I do a select-all/copy and especially just before I hit submit. Others may write off-line but I haven't gone that far yet.

110. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153669 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 7:44 pm

SweatyPalmSunday,

Some agree with Ayn Rand and some hate her.

ARI: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=index

Ayn Rand Lexicon: http://www.aynrandlexicon.com/

Leonard Peikoff: http://peikoff.com/

Good luck.

111. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153668 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 7:39 pm

I just lost a comment too.

112. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153662 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 7:26 pm

What AfraidToDie said.

Me too.

113. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153661 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 7:22 pm

SweatyPalmSunday.

Some short answers have been given. If you're really serious about discussing the theory of morality and rights, you should click on 'FORUM' above and start such a thread under philosophy. On a blog such as this, people are operating without formal theories; they are doing the best they can to be rational and independent thinkers. People should be asking "what is morality" and why is it needed. After that's done, then they can decide whether murder is wrong or not and support an answer all the way. But, this is a huge step and until it's taken, we have to get by on commonsense from simple inductions--which religion is not. I think coming into this thread and dumping infanticide into the discussion was a silly move and we'll be very lucky if it doesn't cost us dearly. So far as I know, the Oregon parents are not guilty of deliberate infanticide and haven't been charged with it; so, I don't think it was even part of this thread to begin with. I think FF was right about being shocked. The Grand Jury in Oregon decided that the child's death was caused by the parents actions. (see the quote above)

What is implicit in this case and in other cases--and very interesting--is that there is a standard of rationaliy being applied to the parent's actions towards a child that would not apply to the parents actions toward themselves, who can refuse medical treatment if the want. My cut on it is that one can be irrational up to the point of violating the rights of others and that children have rights and parents have obligations.

114. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153652 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 6:23 pm

As I quoted in #153519

From KGW.com (April 1)
In court Monday, the Worthingtons were charged with manslaughter and criminal mistreatment. A grand jury concluded that the faith healing couple's refusal to get medical treatment for their sick toddler caused the child's death.

115. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153650 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 6:17 pm

From Merriam-Webster
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euthanasia
euthanasia:
the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy

116. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153616 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 4:56 pm

The exact point when a child acquires rights? I don't know. However, I will insist that until the child is disconnected, the mother's physical wellbeing has to have priority even if the fetus could survive.

In any case, I think about all issues of morality and rights based on reality and never ever on the vice of faith and holy books. Theistic drivel is irrelevant. Implicitly, commandments in ethics contain a commandment not to think. The Objectivist philosopher Leonard Peikoff makes this point very nicely in a new kick-theist-ass short YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M37Kq0ob9MA

117. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153589 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 3:58 pm

Comment #153552 by FightingFalcon

SweatyPalmSunday's first comment was on the Kara thread; I quote:

5. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150456 by SweatyPalmSunday on March 27, 2008 at 12:18 am

Does anyone remember that vegan couple who were put in jail last year for feeding their baby a strict vegan diet (the baby died from malnutrition)? I didn't agree with that ruling, but I do not see how denying insulin is any different than denying proper nutrition. If we are going to lock up that vegan couple, we should lock up this religious couple too.

118. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153565 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 3:08 pm

OT

Actually, a deep philosophical look at rights is a valid topic for the forum but rather off-topic here but I'll give it a sketchy try.

Rights are the actions we can take to support and further our lives. Rights protect us from others, thus allowing us to live among people. Every action of our life and every breath we take exist because of rights. They don't come from God as the nutters claim; they come the needs of a human life in reality. As with morality, the disconnect with the needs of a human life on Earth that religion has produced is a continuing disaster.

It's rights that are at issue. Until birth, a fetus is part of its mother's body and she needs to have the right over her body if she is to care for her own needs. At birth, this ends and the child has full rights as a human being. Since a child is not capable of using its rights to take the actions needed to fill its needs, the parents are obligated to do it--rationally. A child is not the property of the parents or of the state.

119. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153519 by MelM on April 1, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Geoff posted this link (on the Dawkins.net Kara post) to an 1998 story about the "Followers of Christ". The 1999 Oregon law has done well as a deterrent until now.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/deadbabies.htm

Wikipedia also has an article about this group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Followers_of_Christ_(Oregon_church)


This local news report was linked by righton yesterday.

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_033008_news_faith_healing.1742971c.html

From KGW.com (April 1)
In court Monday, the Worthingtons were charged with manslaughter and criminal mistreatment. A grand jury concluded that the faith healing couple's refusal to get medical treatment for their sick toddler caused the child's death.

120. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #153037 by MelM on March 31, 2008 at 11:18 pm

Perk up joshie. Oregon made big changes--maybe Wis will as well. I saw a news video done in Kara's town that said the locals were pretty angry. So, the people who think that a "witch-hunt" is going on, may be in a tiny minority. I hope so. My point in posting the "witch-hunt" comment was not to show the majority view but to show how the "don't judge" idea was being used to get the family out of being condemned. As for the universe not caring, I don't care at all about that and I don't think about it.

121. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #152980 by MelM on March 31, 2008 at 7:32 pm

wausaudailyherald.com has a special section on Kara's case. Having given them a little info, I'm able to access the stories without re-input of info--cookie I guess.

http://wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/WDH0101/80325198&theme=WDHNEUMANN&template=theme

There's another comment to the "Fifth-grader's..." story that has some info about the investigation:

From commenter EMSMO (March 31)
...
Well stated....but let's look at some cold, hard facts.

-The family had proof of medical insurance per the search warrant executed by Everest Metro Police.
-In the search warrant, police recovered multiple medical publications, medicine cups, a syringe and a red liquid.
-The extended family urged Kara's parents to seek medical treatment for her dating back (about) a week before hear death and culminating almost at the moment of death.
-There are very few (if any) religions that strictly prohibit medical care in lieu of prayer-especially when children are involved.
-In the initial affadavidt for serach warrant, Everest Metro Police stated that Medical Examiner John Larsen told them that Kara was emaciated. Emaciation does not happen over night. We're talking about a process of weeks to months, depending on the person.

...

122. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #152948 by MelM on March 31, 2008 at 6:42 pm

About Kara's death,

"...let this witch-hunt end. ... How is it that so many people are so heartless about this? "

From a comment about the story: Fifth-graders still in shock over Kara's death in Wausau daily Herald

treehugger19 said: (March 31)
...
"Everybody just remembered how non-judgmental she was of everybody and how caring she was," Hughes said.

Maybe it's time to take a cue from this little girl and stop judging others.... including her family.

But, out of respect for Kara, I think it's time to let this "witch-hunt" end. The Neumann family lost their little girl! Can you even imagine the pain they are experiencing? How is it that so many people are so heartless about this?

So, let's let Kara be an inspiration to all of us!

Let's: Be less judgmental of others.

...

123. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #152849 by MelM on March 31, 2008 at 4:19 pm

Comment #152448 by Geoff,

I read the whole story; good background information. I'd never heard of the "Followers".

The 1999 Oregon law seems to have worked as a deterrent 'till this case.

The Oregonian March 22

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1206156310185280.xml&coll=7&thispage=1

Since the law passed, Courtney and others said they haven't heard of any Oregon cases involving children who died because their parents chose prayer over medical care. "I really thought we'd resolved it," he said.

124. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #152779 by MelM on March 31, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Re: KGW article from righton.

I see there was also a religious exemption to the homicide laws.

I haven't seen anything about charges in the Wis case. I thought there was going to be a decision by Fri.

Edit: According to article,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23832053/

...noting that he [the police chief] expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

125. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #151493 by MelM on March 28, 2008 at 8:55 pm

OT

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23850442/

Wait for end of world wraps up early
7 Russian cult members emerge from cave; more could be leaving

...the cult leader, the self-declared prophet Pyotr Kuznetsov, was brought from a local psychiatric hospital to help persuade the women to leave.
...

Kuznetsov has been charged with setting up a religious organization associated with violence.

126. Iowa county board gives initial OK for ghost hunters to investigate asylum

Comment #151426 by MelM on March 28, 2008 at 5:07 pm

The building now houses some people with mental disabilities. Might I suggest that the Johnson County Board of Supervisors move their meetings to the building? Or, perhaps they should take up permanent residence.

127. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #151374 by MelM on March 28, 2008 at 3:08 pm

The parents had the faith of Abraham but no angel came to prevent the loss of their daughter; fake "knowledge" has very real consequences.

128. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150921 by MelM on March 27, 2008 at 4:08 pm

I went back to some of the UBM testimonials that I'd seen yesterday--I was looking at how this faith thing was operating--at least at UBM.

http://www.americaslastdays.com/?page=TestimoniesHealings

I read about a half-dozen cases and found this.

From "Faith Stops Bleeding"
Wouldn't you know it, the enemy started to make me doubt. The pain came back and I got a slight touch of blood on the surface of my thumb, but the Lord strengthened me to ignore his tricks. I rebuked the thoughts and ignored the blood and continued to do what I was doing, and of course it was completely fine from then on!

From "God Heals Horses, Too"
As I walked away and mentally said, "He'll be fine," of course the enemy tried putting opposing thoughts in my mind. The thought came to me that everyone will think I'm crazy for not rushing him to the vet. Another thought came that he could die. I got mad and said out loud, "He will live and not die!" I came against those thoughts and took them captive in the Name of Jesus. I said, "It is done and he will be fine," and went inside the house to do a few things...

129. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150420 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 9:49 pm

If no atheist organization issues press releases, I suggest that they start. I note that the EXPELLED people issued a press release over Business Wire about the PZ incident. They used a PR firm also.

Just because we're right doesn't mean the world is going to come knocking at our door looking for the truth; we have to get the word out and knock on the world's door; press releases might just do a lot for atheism. This is a link to Business Wire about it's services but maybe another route would be better; I don't know.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/?epi_menuItemID=ccb3a5502a39be450d2df854c6908a0c&epi_menuID=800c9778c65e40c6efaaa9e27a808a0c&epi_baseMenuID=384979e8cc48c441ef0130f5c6908a0c

I have no idea how much this kind of service costs; I couldn't find any prices on the site. We really need to at least make our views known about outrages like this and about freedom of speech issues.

Edit: Dope Benedict XVI will be in the U.S. April 15 to 20 and I'll bet he'll have something to say about "respect for religion" and the press will print every word. What will the press have from us to include in their stories?

130. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150411 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 9:13 pm

I love my iPod so I'm most happy to hear that God can heal one.

http://www.americaslastdays.com/?page=ipod-suani

Edit: I'm closing the UBM link; I can't take any more of this. Enough.

131. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150407 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 9:03 pm

I'll just bet Madeline Neumann's parents won't be putting a testimonial on UBM although they certainly should.

These people haven't even got sense enough to sneak in a little bit of rationality and let their 'lord' work through a doctor; no, they want magic--reason eliminated entirely by faith. Faith belongs to the field of psychopathology and morally, it's a vice. New book: "The Delusions Of Faith And The Achievements of Reason" by ????

132. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150399 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 8:42 pm

David Eells, the head witch doctor at UBM certainly deserves moral condemnation--hopefully, enough to shut down his pathetic 'ministry'.

133. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150368 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 7:22 pm

Following the link from (118. Comment #150241 by Acardia), we find "Unleavend Bread Ministries" which the mother--according to the news story--had some contact with, although it's hard to see how much, just from the news story.
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/WDH0101/80326101/1981

Here's a page of testimonials at UBM about healing.
http://www.americaslastdays.com/?page=TestimoniesHealings

This one is about curing uneven tire wear.
http://www.americaslastdays.com/?page=tirewear-rea

134. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #150236 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 3:46 pm

Interesting. The Yemen Prime Minister wants an international law about respecting religion but the Saudi Consultative Council voted such an idea down because polytheistic religions would be included. So, a change in strategy here?

Yemen's Prime Minister:
http://www.yobserver.com/front-page/10013819.html

About the Saudi rejection:
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/832

135. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #150201 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 2:58 pm

When the Pope was in Turkey, I remember a shocking news video containing a statement by a Vatican spokesman. I don't have a link to the video (I'm writing this from memory) but the messaqe was clear. The guy said something to the effect that the church's position was that the basic conflict in the world was not a clash of civilizations but the clash between belief and unbelief and that the Vatican would hope to have Islam as an ally. I probably have not recalled the statement exactly but I'm pretty sure I've got the essentials right. I could hardly believe what I was hearing.

BTW, Dope Benedict XVI will be in the U.S. from April 15th to the 20th; it's going to be really gross I'm sure. There's a huge rally scheduled for near the end--plenty of room for a big herd to show up. Note also that EXPELLED will be released on April 18th.

And, the Florida 'Academic Freedom" bill (bad news for Florida's new pro-evolution science standards) has passed a committee although it still has to get through the legislature.
http://www.flascience.org/wp/?p=516

136. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150187 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 2:40 pm

OT (From Florida)

Bad news
March 26th, 2008 by Brandon Haught
Storms' "academic freedom" bill was approved by the education committee on a 4-1 vote.

137. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150128 by MelM on March 26, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Where religious faith and bullshit are taught, it's no surprise that some people take both very seriously.

As we see, lots of people are taking religion very seriously. Trying to shut down lines of research and the science of biology, will do on a large scale what these parents did to their daughter--ignore science and reason. "God did it" will never result in curing anything or be of any other benefit to humanity. "Moderates" share responsibility in this.

Faith is indeed a vice; it facilitates religious delusions then shackles people to them. Shackled by faith to the delusions of faith--what could be more destructive of a mind than that?

138. Expelled Overview

Comment #149489 by MelM on March 25, 2008 at 5:57 pm

The Dawkins interview looks like a disaster. Was there no way to find out ahead of time just who was involved in this film? It's starting to look like Dawkins needs to run some sort of background check on people wanting him to participate in projects; creationists would hardly want him involved if they came out looking bad instead of him. If one can't confirm that it's a valid project, don't do it.

139. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #148756 by MelM on March 23, 2008 at 8:50 pm

A natural designer would itself require a designer; because, if it had evolved, that would end the need for an intelligent designer and ID ends.

ID boils down to the claim for a non-natural undesigned designer. That's why it's religion. Give the creationists a choice: their god or another yet unknown god. These nutters are stuck in Orwellian doublethink involving two contradictory views: "ID is all about God" and "ID is not about God".

140. Discussion on PZ Myers being expelled from Expelled

Comment #148048 by MelM on March 21, 2008 at 10:09 pm

Eugenie Scott (NCSE) was looking for a way in at Danville in the San Francisco East Bay area; don't know how it turned out. NCSE is not far away. See her comment to PZ:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/a_late_night_quick_one.php#comment-796527

141. EXPELLED!

Comment #148028 by MelM on March 21, 2008 at 8:56 pm

Hot off the press; a new post by PZ. Comments are just getting started.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/still_straining_to_find_an_exc.php

142. EXPELLED!

Comment #147994 by MelM on March 21, 2008 at 6:26 pm

You can leave a comment under the TwinCities.com story about this. No registratrion is required. The site finds your city--I guess from your IP address--and includes it with the name you supply for the comment. So, if you don't want your city known, beware.
http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_8653837?nclick_check=1

143. EXPELLED!

Comment #147972 by MelM on March 21, 2008 at 5:10 pm

I received a thank you note from Ayaan Hirsi Ali today and now this. I'm very happy today.

Thank to PZ and his family and to Richard and his staff; they have made my day.

144. The Secular Conscience

Comment #147552 by MelM on March 20, 2008 at 9:57 pm

Many christians I know and interact with in small town america are not what you might call devote secularists.

145. The Secular Conscience

Comment #147525 by MelM on March 20, 2008 at 9:03 pm

OT

They're at it again. This time it's the U.S. Senate.

S. RES. 483 'Ten Commandments Weekend'
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.RES.483:

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 13, 2008
Mr. BROWNBACK (for himself and Mr. LIEBERMAN) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESOLUTION
Recognizing the first weekend of May 2008 as `Ten Commandments Weekend'.
...

146. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #147466 by MelM on March 20, 2008 at 2:18 pm

At Berkeley, I too heard some things new to me but the most interesting items were two questions at the end. One dealt with "subjectivity" and one dealt with something (I believe it was) Aquinas said about a "simple" god. I'd not heard these questions before and thought Dawkins did quite well in his answers but I sure want to see them again. Considering what Nick had to say, I'm thinking that an edited Q&A video from all the tour stops might be a good idea (if they were all recorded).

147. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #147126 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 9:42 pm

1200 is pretty good. At Berkeley's Wheeler Auditorium the capacity was only 705; luckily, I made it in. There is a major Bay Area performing arts auditorum on the campus, and actually near Wheeler, that seats 2000 but a dance company was there on the Sat night of the Dawkins speech.

I hope somebody will comment about New York--I'm hoping for some kind of mega-crowd.

148. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #147116 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 9:19 pm

TonyA,

What do you think was the size of the full house?

149. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #147099 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 7:46 pm

My favorite comment about Jesus love:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_love/lk06_17p20p27.html

Then we have the end times love mentioned in the Elizabeth Anderson article Hitchens has in "The Portable Atheist".

150. Richard Dawkins' US Tour begins this week

Comment #147083 by MelM on March 19, 2008 at 7:03 pm

How did it go in New York?