Comments by qomak

Comment #222297 by qomak on July 31, 2008 at 5:23 am

Fanusi,

The links that you posted says nothing about what I asked.

How do the fourth generation muslims compare to first and second generation muslim immigrants?

You see, this is the point where all these fear-mongering bunch avoid. In order for muslims to take over any western country, they must live for generations there. Thus, to take over a country, they must remain as fundamental as the first and second generations.

Finally, you cannot extrapolate from statistics on first or second generation immigrants, since they are the people who experience the greatest culture shock (including the shock of a foreign language) so presumably they will have the highest percentage of fundamentalists.

102. Breeding for God

Comment #222289 by qomak on July 31, 2008 at 5:07 am

Steve Zara

Just consider Catholics. They all, in principle, sign up to the business about the Pope being in charge and having a tendency to be infallible, and yet the number who use contraceptives (especially in Western democracies) is considerable.

There is another mistake the people often make about muslims (and religious people in general). They assume if they show that Quran really means X, then real muslims will believe in X.

For instance, if they show that Quran blatantly violates women's right, then all real muslims must follow that.

This argument is flawed since almost every single muslim does not follow or believe what Quran really says. Quran really says that earth is flat, yet almost all muslims do not believe that. The dissonance caused by the established scientific facts forces them to leap to spectacular justifications for such verses.

So, hopefully, if we manage to establish similar strong beliefs in muslim children regarding human rights, then the dissonance against what is beign said in Quran will be so great that they will be forced to make similar justifications for those verses as well.

103. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #222153 by qomak on July 30, 2008 at 7:39 pm

there was originally a verse in the Qur'an commanding that adulterers be stoned (the rule is found in the hadith, not the present Qur'an). Then a hungry goat ate the only piece of paper containing that verse, so it didn't make it into the Qur'an! ;-)

Don't know about that, but there is this:

Sahih Bukharai, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:
...
In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.

And then he continues to talk about some other omissions from Quran.

104. Breeding for God

Comment #222111 by qomak on July 30, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Comment #221628 by paulwwww on July 29, 2008 at 11:38 pm

qomak;

Secular education about religion from early age for everyone will solve the problem. Nothing kills religion like knowledge and prevention of indoctrination.

Sounds like a pipe dream, personally think a realistic amount of history might help a bit. It's a shame most kids are indoctrinated before ever setting a foot in the classroom.

I do not get what do you mean. It is pretty much proven that education and religiosity are inversely related. There is also (strong) anecdotal evidence that knowing about other cultures and religions can significantly weaken the religious beliefs.

My favorite is the story of Carl Rogers. He was born into a very religious family (and thus indoctrinated from an early age) and in fact he was planning to continue religion. During a religious trip to China, he gets to meet people who did not share his religious beliefs and this eventually led him to abandon faith and continue psychology instead.

105. Breeding for God

Comment #222110 by qomak on July 30, 2008 at 3:54 pm

This is the basic problem. If things go on like this, Europe will become Eurabia and the oldest civilised nations in the world will vanish, forever.

Islamization is a process that is very, very difficult to reverse.

I smell bullshit-fearmongering. I have not seen any evidence for this. What I like to see is a comparison of fourth or fifth generation muslim immigrants against the second and first.

106. Breeding for God

Comment #221590 by qomak on July 29, 2008 at 9:08 pm

There's no need to out breed the religious idiots.

Secular education about religion from early age for everyone will solve the problem. Nothing kills religion like knowledge and prevention of indoctrination.

107. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220185 by qomak on July 28, 2008 at 7:40 am

Here is a challenge for anyone drumming up that muslim threat.

How do first generation, second generation, third generation and fourth generation muslim immigrants compare on these statistics? Does anyone know that?

108. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #219762 by qomak on July 27, 2008 at 2:01 pm

Sense of justice is one of the most wonderful ideals of Islam

You mean like this?

Abdullah Ibn Sinan relates the following tradition from Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.): "When a minor child steals for the first and the second time he is forgiven. If he does it for the third time he is issued a strict warning and beating. If he persists in his crime, the tips of his fingers are slightly cut and if he repeats the act, some more of his fingers are cut away."

109. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #219683 by qomak on July 27, 2008 at 11:17 am

SO BE READY SOON FOR MORE LESSONS YOU WORMS

I guess it means more copy/paste from internet sites.

One thing Joe made me realize was that an awful lot of crap is written all over internet.

110. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #219671 by qomak on July 27, 2008 at 11:09 am

Bwhahahahahaha!

The mental image of unshaven Joe sitting in his underpants with his thin hairy legs tucked under his chair, fawning at thewhitepearl's avatar is too ridiculous to bear.

Just at the moment you think he cannot sink any lower, he doesn't fail to surprise you.

So I guess I'm going to coin a new internet law,
Joe's Law: A fundie can always sink lower no matter how deep a hole he/she has dug.

111. A Holocaust Denier Hits Manhattan (And Hearts Hitchens)

Comment #219654 by qomak on July 27, 2008 at 10:51 am

Spinoza:

But they should not for a single second be permitted to be in positions of authority where their views conflict directly with their ability to perform their duties properly, and/or their ability to control what others can read, see, hear, say, or do, e.g. teachers, police officers, politicians.

The laws against the latter are utterly necessary, for obvious reasons.

I am not sure I fully agree with what you say. The way you phrase, it sounds too close to some form of thought-police. Clearly, denying the Holocaust implies the said person is unqualified for certain jobs, such as a history teacher. The same way as denying evolution makes on unfit to be a biology teacher. But I am not sure if there is any logical reason to move beyond that. I cannot see based on what argument we can prevent creationists or Holocaust denials from being policemen for instance.

112. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #219313 by qomak on July 26, 2008 at 4:28 pm

Joe proves a very strong point though.

The internet technology is sufficiently advanced that literally any idiot can use it.

113. A Holocaust Denier Hits Manhattan (And Hearts Hitchens)

Comment #219153 by qomak on July 26, 2008 at 11:30 am

Holocaust denial laws are utterly ridiculous. We don't need a government to tell us which thoughts are worthy of mention. Hopefully one day we will reach that level of intellectual maturity that we will not feel threatened by any thought no matter how vile it is.

114. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #212373 by qomak on July 17, 2008 at 5:22 am

Kudos to you guys for putting up with a creationist, specially a young earth one.

Yeah, I was convinced for many years that the crucifixion happened on a Wednesday.

BWhahaha, this is one of those golden remarks worthy of mention in the top 100 of fstdt.com

115. 'Condoms won't change HIV rates'

Comment #212193 by qomak on July 16, 2008 at 7:38 pm

Fuck Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier.

Such an ignorant scumbag should not appear on any decently run TV station, at least not when on seriously challenges his bullshit and exposes his lies.

116. The Return of Religion

Comment #211903 by qomak on July 16, 2008 at 11:38 am

It is this mystery which brings people back to religion.

This guy is certainly deluded and slightly ignorant of the general consensus of neurologists on consciousness but I would like to ask him if he agrees that the grip of religion on children must be loosened.

If it is the mystery which brings people to religion, then perhaps we can stop telling the children (or the adults) that the price of disobedience is to burn at a pit of fire for eternity. If religion is there to answer our profound questions, then let us just keep it for the time we ask those profound question (i.e., adulthood). As long as these religious apologists agree with these points, I have no problem with their delusions. After all, we all know that if there was no indoctrination, religion would have died within a generation or two.

117. IT'S A GODDAMNED CRACKER!

Comment #208035 by qomak on July 10, 2008 at 2:13 pm

Hahahaha!

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=252632

118. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207962 by qomak on July 10, 2008 at 10:52 am

The funny thing about this Dr Zakir Naik or whatever (I never bothered to learn his name, what's the use?) is that many Muslim clerics or mujtahids would disagree with him. According to them, interpreting Quran has plenty of rules and don't-dos. Essentially, according to them you cannot pick up a verse and say it means such and such, as they say, you cannot interpret Quran according to your opinion.

119. Susskind Quashes Hawking in Quarrel Over Quantum Quandary

Comment #207921 by qomak on July 10, 2008 at 9:56 am

Regarding consciousness:

Argh, that is one reason I hate interviews with theoretical physicists. They assume they have the credentials to talk just about anything. The standard answer of a theoretical physicist should be "Consciousness is a biological phenomenon and plenty of neurologists are currently working on theories to explain it. You might want to ask them this question not me."

120. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207215 by qomak on July 9, 2008 at 10:38 am

AN INVITATION TO THE TRUTH

DECLARE THAT:

THERE IS NO OBJECT WORTHY OF WORSHIP BUT GOD AND THAT MUHAMMAD IS THE LAST AND FINAL PROPHET/MESSENGER OF GOD.

Ooo, fun word play game.
Fine, I'll join.

I declare that THERE IS NO OBJECT WORTHY OF WORSHIP BUT GOD AND THAT MUHAMMAD IS THE LAST AND FINAL PROPHET/MESSENGER OF GOD.

Ooops, I guess that was the Al-Ashhad, so now I'm a muslim. Oh well, let's continue the game.

Your turn now, declare that:

Allah is the figment of your imagination and Mohammad was the pedophile cult leader of the thieves and caravan robbers.

Oops again. Does that make me a apostate now?

121. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207187 by qomak on July 9, 2008 at 9:25 am

Al,

By the way, that was a sweet link you posted there.

122. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207182 by qomak on July 9, 2008 at 9:20 am

DHUL QARNAIN (mistakenly referred to as Alexander(who was a pagan!) Yusuf Ali which is not accepted by the majority opinion of Muslim scholars) looking at the sun, thought that it was setting in muddy spring

So the all-mighty, all-knowing Allah found it worthwhile to mention Alexander's optical illusion just for the heck of it? By the way you have not explained why Allah was so stupid to use the word "found" rather than "thought". Why it also says that Alexander traveled east to the rising place of the sun and found people who had no shelter from the sun? Maybe the whole travel was an optical illusion by Alexander?

123. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207152 by qomak on July 9, 2008 at 8:52 am

the Arabic word Wajada means to "find" not "appear" I can confirm this.

Indeed.

YUSUFALI: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water:

PICKTHAL: Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring,

SHAKIR: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea ...

Wajada simply means find. It is one of those words which identically translates to the English using the word "find". There is no escaping.

124. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #207142 by qomak on July 9, 2008 at 8:35 am

I hate these prison break shows.
Back to your cell Joe.

125. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206763 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 7:10 pm

Whew, now I can go back and delete all my comments to at least help organize the mess created by these dumbfucks.

Edit: I'll never be ungrateful for clearthinker again.

126. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206705 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 5:07 pm

Joe Morreale:

Do you read this? Do you know what is spamming? Do you know you have already pasted multiple identical copy/paste comments? Do you have any sense of decency?

127. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206603 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Vin,

I don't see why the discussion of Mashriq Al-Shshams is really relevant. As far as I have seen, even those who interpret Quran do not dispute the general meaning of the verses.
What they do through a very spectacular spin of the text is to claim that the verse means "sun sets in a spring/lake as seen from the perspective of the eye" and in general interpret it as "he thought he saw sun doing down a lake". Obviously, text doesn't read like that.

128. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206510 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 12:32 pm

There is no historical data about Abraham to suggest any religious affiliation, or any data at all. Of course there IS historical data about Alexander, enough to say, certainly, he wasn't a Muslim, even in the wide definition of that term.

Good point. Alexander doesn't fit the definition of a muslim even with special prophet privileges.

129. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206460 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 11:38 am

You know, Dhu al-Qarnayn is Alexander. And of course the Qur'an fucks this up, saying he is a "Muslim" (he obviously wasn't) and that he lived to be very old (which he didn't).

Exactly. According to Quran Abraham is also a muslim too.

130. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206449 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 11:29 am

Everyone seems to know this, but for the heck of it:
Flat earth in Quran:

YUSUFALI: They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."

018.084
YUSUFALI: Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.

018.085
YUSUFALI: One (such) way he followed,

018.086
YUSUFALI: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

...

018.089
YUSUFALI: Then followed he (another) way,

018.090
YUSUFALI: Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.

131. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #206361 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 9:57 am

In 627, Mohammad was busy arranging a raid of some local tribe and had chosen A'eisha to be his accompanying fuck machine, since we all know he cannot function four hours without any screw.
Now, A'eisha was possibly hurt by Mohammad's lewd behavior and thus she deliberately missed the caravan and was stranded in the dessert for a while. Safwan b. ol-Mo'attal who was responsible for collecting left overs sees her and rides her on his camel to Madina.

This is of course big news. A married wife riding the camel with a stranger make it ripe for rumors and the rumors starts to circulate about A'eisha's infidelity and Mohammad is deeply furious about the whole incident. Worst, he has no idea whether A'eisha has been innocent. Unfortunately, an imaginary God can never tell you if one of your wives is cheating on you. So, there goes your Mohammad, tormented by the thoughts. One of his closest allies, Ali ibn-e Abi-Taleb beats up A'eisha's maid badly trying to uncover the truth and she swears A'eisha is innocent. But the all knowing prophet is still unsure. So he decides to do what every ignorant human would do in that position. He declares that adultery is punishable by death and spreading unproved rumors of adultery is punishable by 80 lashes.

So, there you go. Another story from your pathetic prophet's life.

132. Conversation between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #206301 by qomak on July 8, 2008 at 8:42 am

Throughout the debate, for some reason I was expecting John to burst into ...

"dumb, da da, dumb dada, ... Sweet dreams are made of this .."
"Who am I to disagree? dumb da da ..."

133. Prayer refusal pupils 'disciplined'

Comment #205407 by qomak on July 7, 2008 at 8:42 am

Irate:

Pff. Argument from authority.

Doesn't carry much weight here, sunshine.

Get a clue and learn what argument from authority is.

The children must be disciplined if they go against the teacher if she is not over stepping her boundaries. That is not argument from authority, sunshine, it is a fundamental way to keep it a classroom.

Now, arguing that I see little evidence that the teacher was wrong, I concluded she has the right to discipline the students.

Personally, I believe the most probable scenario is that the children were indoctrinated under Christian dogma which vehemently tries to force itself as the primary dogma upon the children. Religions fight for resources and this mock Islamic prayer is seen by the Christian faith as a serious threat to their "resources". This is one reason I support the teacher and believe this story is possibly another attempt in fear-mongering.

Edit: Let the children learn, observe and do all the religious practices because after that, it is very difficult to persuade them one of them is special since all are equally random and arbitrary.

134. Prayer refusal pupils 'disciplined'

Comment #205367 by qomak on July 7, 2008 at 7:39 am

I wonder why everyone is trying so hard to miss the point.

If you are an atheist, there is no real reason to refuse demonstration of any religious belief, be it muslim, christian, indian, or other random combination of body gestures and syllables.

The only reason someone would be outraged would be if they are subscribing to a dogma in which certain body gestures and syllables are "good" and "special" and others "wrong" and "misleading".

I mostly side with the teacher here. The children refused to take part in the course (we do not know the full story here) and the teacher has every right to challenge such behavior in the classroom.

135. Group Asks for Divine Intervention to Ease Oil Prices

Comment #204305 by qomak on July 4, 2008 at 4:46 pm

From: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070912093556.htm

"An additional $1 in real gasoline prices would reduce obesity in the U.S. by 15 percent after three years," suggests Charles Courtemanche, an economics researcher at Washington University in St. Louis.

Since then we had a few dollars on the gas prices, I wonder how americans are doing...

136. Group Asks for Divine Intervention to Ease Oil Prices

Comment #204303 by qomak on July 4, 2008 at 4:42 pm

"Our people are really suffering through this crisis," Twyman told Cybercast News Service.

Quill:

It really takes some degree of religious inanity to go to the developing world and complain to the people there about YOUR suffering.

Same sentiments. Someone has to tell this cocksucker there are real people who are really suffering specially in the same country he wants to be friends with (i.e., Saudi Arabia).
Yet another sign of arrogant and egocentricity where you and YOUR little pathetic problems are at the center of divine attention.

Go buy a fucking bicycle chubbies.

137. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203828 by qomak on July 3, 2008 at 6:26 pm

Comment #203659 by Bonzai

It seems that some Europeans would rather keep their immigrants on the welfare roll and stay out of sight than to let them work and mingle with them.

I have a friend who emigrated from Sweden where he was living for a while after he left Iraq...

I can also share similar anecdotes from other "dark-haired" people who have stayed in Sweden. That is why I generally believe some of these European countries are doing a lousy job at assimilating their immigrants. So, a part of their troubles with fundy Islam is their own fault.

138. New Zealand man sells his soul to 'Hell'

Comment #203611 by qomak on July 3, 2008 at 8:33 am

Quick, we all have to sell our souls before supply surpasses the demand.

139. Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Comment #203086 by qomak on July 2, 2008 at 11:08 am

Muslims outraged at police advert featuring cute puppy sitting in policeman's hat

Let me guess ... is it because the ad uses the image of an animal in a way which is some form of appeal to emotion without having any connection to the actual performance of the police force?

140. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #202508 by qomak on July 1, 2008 at 2:41 pm

Since we were doing ontological arguments and I just happened to stumble upon this I could not stop myself from posting!

141. Jesus and Mo on Militant Atheists

Comment #202112 by qomak on June 30, 2008 at 9:58 pm

~manic-depressive:

"Evolution is cleverer than you are."
Orgel's second rule

Hahaha, a nice one. True it's not really what I mean but I got it.

142. Jesus and Mo on Militant Atheists

Comment #202000 by qomak on June 30, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Haha! Love it!
They have more in their site by the way.
They'll be wasting my next hour, bastards! But it's time well wasted anyways.

Edit:
My favorite so far:
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/03/21/cake/

143. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201892 by qomak on June 30, 2008 at 11:33 am

bugaboo:

I tend to agree qomak. But if all Robert ever does is refer us to the ontological argument could we ban him for being boring?

Personally, I think the only reasonable excuse for banning somebody is spamming. If someone insults your sister, ignore them. If you find someone boring do not join the discussion or read their comments. It is as simple as that. I personally go for less rules and more freedom.

144. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201858 by qomak on June 30, 2008 at 10:39 am

PZ Myers' policy of banning people for stupidity is really stupid. Hopefully, he will not get banned here.

145. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201853 by qomak on June 30, 2008 at 10:30 am

Robert O'Brien

Godel's model for ontological argument is a mathematical construct. Why it has anything to do with reality? Classical mechanics can be modeled with similar clarity:

Axiom 1: Every object has a position.
Def 1: The change in distance is defined velocity.
...
...

This results in a very intuitive consistent mathematical model which although mathematically consistent has nothing to do with our universe.

146. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201743 by qomak on June 30, 2008 at 7:56 am

What I find most confusing is the assertion that modal logic describes our world. As with the rest of mathematics, it is a mathematical construct.

147. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201709 by qomak on June 30, 2008 at 6:06 am

MPhill:

actually, many theists claim that God is the ultimate source of reason, and of abstract entities/universals

I am not claiming that you can find holes from mathematics but having studied math helps you tread very cautiously when trying to proclaim such and such exists when you don't even have a formal definition of that such and such thing.

Hmm... I'm not sure if the analogy is sufficient to make this into a formal criticism. "Greatness" may have degrees, but does mean there is an ordered set of greatness-instantiations with the properties of the set of real numbers?

It is the same objection. Sure you can define God to be maximally great but that does not prove such a maximally great thing exists. In the case of real numbers, you can define X to be the maximum number which is smaller than 2 but we all know no such maximum exists. It is the same kind of objection really

148. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201583 by qomak on June 29, 2008 at 8:35 pm

actually, many theists claim that God is the ultimate source of reason, and of abstract entities/universals...

Yes, I've heard about that. That is basically assuming God exists without an argument. Personally, I find such an option unworthy of any answer.

Furthermore - I really don't see how a mathematical model of the universe could potentially dismantle the ontological argument.

But assume that we all agree mathematics is independent of God. Let's assume that a set of axioms A results in a sound logical system that mathematically describes our universe such that the statement that "God exists" is false in this system. That basically proves you cannot prove that God exists given the existence of this universe.

P.S: Edit for clarity.

149. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201579 by qomak on June 29, 2008 at 8:25 pm

Finally, if you have had even a brief introduction to mathematics (set theory, algebra and the rest) these ontological arguments will be utterly painful to read as they are riddled with holes.

I scrolled this page to a random location and urgh, behold!

Since God, by definition, is maximally great, she should have an answer.

Doesn't that remind you the typical undergraduate mistake that the maximum of any set of reals exists?

150. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #201573 by qomak on June 29, 2008 at 8:17 pm

I cannot understand why people waste so much time with ontological arguments those fallacies can be shown in two sentences:

It is possible to build a mathematical model of the current universe which cannot be contradicted by our (current) observations. Thus, unless you want to claim the baseless assertion that God must exist for mathematics to be true, the existence of a universe is independent of existence of a God.

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