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Comments by Luthien


101. Liberty U student plotted to set off explosives, police say

Comment #44063 by Luthien on May 23, 2007 at 8:43 am

I must stress that I have never tried this, but coming from a background where I know people who had engaged in rioting during the height of the troubles (in Northern Ireland), I know a thing or two about how petrol bombs are supposedly made.

Detergent might be added to the petrol in a petrol bomb because it disperses the fuel over a wider area on impact.

(I wonder if he also added sugar to the mix, to make it "stick"?)

Oh, and if the protestors are from that baptist church, they almost certainly would have had young children with them! Glad they caught him so we don't have little faces being horribly scarred because of it! :-(

102. Shark virgin birth mystery is solved

Comment #43992 by Luthien on May 23, 2007 at 6:29 am


Wouldn't that upset the christians?


No, because they all know that an angel came unto Mary ;-)

(sorry, I couldn't resist saying that)

103. Some US Muslims say suicide attacks OK

Comment #43883 by Luthien on May 23, 2007 at 3:24 am

U.S. Muslims have growing Internet and television access to extreme ideologies, he said, adding: "People, especially younger people, are susceptible to these ideas."


Oh sure, blame the internet and TV!

*sigh*

Why is it never..?

(a) The parent's fault.
(b) The fault of the doctrine of the religion itself, which clearly advocates martyrdom as glorious and well rewarded.
(c) Lack of education in critical thinking.

104. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43404 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 9:38 am

Serious thinkers do not rely on TV documentaries for their knowledge.


Ha ha ha ha...

Well, you did conveniently ignore the book I pointed you to (The Selfish Gene), in another blatent example of your confirmation bias.

*sigh*

105. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43396 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 9:12 am

Ok Henri, for your viewing pleasure, here is the explanation of why "greed" is not the best strategy for survival. The "Nice Guys Finish First" documentary with a very young Richard Dawkins in it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzeCn02l_Rw

106. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43383 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 8:22 am

Luthien:
That a 'common goal' should be 'good' is your fantasy. Read something intelligent and we'll be able to continue this debate.


Have you never seen the documentary "Nice Guys Finish First", by Richard Dawkins, or read "The Selfish Gene"? They explain why this is so in detail.

...of course while being altruistic we must remember the following rule:

Please do not feed the trolls.

107. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?

Comment #43376 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 8:00 am

Thanks FXR, that was spot on. :-)

108. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43358 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 7:06 am


Luthien:

A 'cold' response is just as quick as an emotional one, if not faster as it bypassses the necessity for emotion.


No, there is clear experimental evidence that emotional decisions are much quicker than those made without / with less emotion. I do wish you would stop inventing "facts" to support your opinions.

Aggression is also an evolved response. Therefore to say that altruism is 'better' than aggression is to make a presupposed value judgement.


No, aggression can be the better reaction in some circumstances, just not the ones were we have to work together to a common goal.

It is a shame that us atheists do not recognise the subliminal religious ethics that underlie our thought.


I realy think you should read up on something called "confirmation bias" before you are completely consumed by your paranoid fantasies.

109. Cult leader sparks Sikh riots with 'guru' stunt

Comment #43343 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 6:36 am

...all the dagggers I've seen are less than an inch long and less sharp than a ball point pen.


That is an adaptation to western laws, where it would be illegal to carry such weapons around in public.

110. Cult leader sparks Sikh riots with 'guru' stunt

Comment #43317 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 5:27 am

One person was killed and more than 50 were injured after tens of thousands of angry Sikhs, many armed with their ceremonial kirpan daggers, went on the rampage across Punjab and the neighbouring state of Haryana.


So much for them only being ceremonial!

Oh, and baptism with nectar was one of the levels of baptism in mithraism ;-)

111. Would the World Be Safer Without Religion?

Comment #43306 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 5:00 am

Catholics and Protestants continue to kill each other in Northern Ireland.


Oh please! "Continue"???

Protestants in Northern Ireland tend to be well-off and Anglophile; Catholics, to be working class and to want the Brits out.


The Protestants who most hate Catholics do NOT tend to be "well off", this is the greatest myth that was ever perpetuated over here. They just went to different (faith based) schools, making it easier to sew distrust and suspicion. Without religion we would have all gone to the same schools, and known that our economic conditions were identically bad.

Suppose the Christian and Islamic faiths vanished. Sept. 11 might still have happened. Within the Arab world, where many resent the West, violent fanatics might have vowed to kill themselves solely on secular grounds.


No, because who would kill themselves if they knew that this was the only life they had, rather than an afterlife full of virgins etc?

112. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43293 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 4:29 am

That does not explain why, say, sympathy is good for someone unknown to you.


Henri, it does explain why. We evolved to live in small groups, not large cities. Emotions will make the shortcut assumption that what is good for someone else is good for you, because they assume that the "stranger" is part of the group you depend on for support. Essentially your brain will "reward" you with a good feeling when you help a stranger.

You miss the point. This research bases itself on Christian morality ('slave morality').

No, it is just a study of instinctive emotional reactions. Emotions are not a "form of mental weakness", but of strength. A cold and "emotionless" response to an extreme situation would take far too long to process, and by the time you reached a decision you would be too late to do anything.

In other words, to 'prove' this morality presupposes another morality behind it. So it proves absolutely nothing.

No, it doesn't presuppose any morality. It just looks at the instinctual responses that are common to all humans. These will be the evolved "rules" of conduct that best helped us to survive.

113. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43257 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 2:55 am

Of course 'moral' decision are based on emotions, to a certain extent. But the question is, why do we value such emotions as 'good' in the first place?


Emotional based morals are "good" because they allow faster decision making in a dangerous situation when you may not have time to think everything through. They act as a good rule of thumb for preserving yourself and those important to you (not perfect by any means, but better than inaction through indecision).

114. Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring

Comment #43252 by Luthien on May 21, 2007 at 2:48 am

Are non-evidential religious beliefs equivalent to stroke and surgery?


Interesting thought. I was particularly wondering if it is possible to supress this signal in the prefrontal cortex in the same way that meditation can supress your sense of "self"? If this "revulsion" for the sacrifice of human life is something that can be damaged, then it sounds plausible that you could induce a state of mind where it is suppressed. We may even find it to be part of the techniques used to make seemingly ordinary young men into suicide bombers. Someone should investigate this further.

115. Four arrested in Iraq 'honor killing'

Comment #42970 by Luthien on May 20, 2007 at 7:19 am

Hey scottishgeologist ,

Over the past few months I have been picking out quotes like that and putting them up as my messenger "quote of the day" to raise awareness. Well done for pointing them out! I am sick of the Christians who say the NT came to replace the old testament, and therefore it doesn't matter how sick and intolerant it is!

116. Freethinking Ruins All Things

Comment #42697 by Luthien on May 19, 2007 at 4:26 am

46. Comment #42497 by dawgdoc2000 on May 18, 2007 at 9:50 am
To all:
I am new to this site and I can't tell you all how fantastic this all is. I have recently allowed myself to embrace the ideas (such as the ones in these forums) that I discovered were bouncing around in my head all these years. (I had to shake off that repressing Catholic upbringing).


Ah, another escapee from the Catholic brainwashing machine. Welcome :-)

47. Comment #42511 by Dower on May 18, 2007 at 10:09 am
...Especially the part about the Catholic church being the one true church because of what Jesus said about founding his church "on a rock and that rock was Peter" and Peter was the first pope ... blah, blah, blah


Dower, that reference to the rock, peter, and founding the church is straight out of mithraism...

The seven Mithraic ranks were:

* Corax (raven)
* Nymphus (bridegroom)
* Miles (soldier)
* Leo (lion)
* Perses (Persian)
* Heliodromus (sun-courier)
* Pater (father)

(7 catholic sacrements?)

..."Mithras is sometimes depicted as a man being born or reborn from a rock (the petra genetrix[citation needed]), typically with the snake Oroboros wrapped around it. As described above, it is commonly believed that the cave in Mithraism imagery represents the cosmos, and the rock is the cosmos seen from the outside."

They had different levels of baptism including water and fire, and partook of ritual meals of bread and wine (sound familiar?).

"When inducted into the degree of Leo, he was purified with honey, and baptised, not with water, but with fire, as John the Baptist declared that his successor would baptise. After this second baptism, initiates were considered 'participants,' and they received the sacrament of bread and wine commemorating Mithra's banquet at the conclusion of his labors."

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism for more

117. Pedal power takes Islamic shape in Iran

Comment #42685 by Luthien on May 19, 2007 at 3:54 am

Hey people, all your conspiricy talk made me think of the following cartoon:

http://xkcd.com/c258.html

118. Pedal power takes Islamic shape in Iran

Comment #42396 by Luthien on May 18, 2007 at 6:46 am

17. Comment #42093 by the great teapot on May 17, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Like you I cycle to work, but I can assure everyone my crossbar is very high indeed and I have no need for such feminine fripparies as chain guards.


I find it bizarre that it is the men's bikes that have the highest cross bars. I certainly hope you never have to stop suddenly ;-)

119. Manufacturing belief

Comment #42330 by Luthien on May 18, 2007 at 4:40 am

How do you decide whether something is a meme or not? And what you really want to understand is, how is it passed on and why does it persist? This is never discussed.


Never discussed? There are countless books on the subject! (Including one called The Selfish Meme)

Oh, and Shaker2007, are you a World of Warcraft player? (That's the "for the horde" baby isn't it?)

120. Freethinking Ruins All Things

Comment #42245 by Luthien on May 18, 2007 at 1:20 am

Hahahahahahahahah...

It means that it is not always immediately self-evident and clear which is the true religion...

The assumption being that there is one?
and it means that those who have opted for the sterile, sad path of "freethinking," which is simply to inhabit a particularly wearisome set of prejudices, have simply lost patience in trying to discern the truth of the matter.

LOL

Freethinking can only desecrate, despoil and ruin. It can create nothing, because it has no vision of the Good, and it will always be judged as wanting on account of this.

...And yet he has published this little rant on the web, using a computer, all of which are "created" by free thinking scientists and engineers. I think I just had a fatal dose of irony there. *clutches at chest for dramatic effect*

121. Pedal power takes Islamic shape in Iran

Comment #42077 by Luthien on May 17, 2007 at 3:12 pm

I love my bike, and I cycle to work on it almost every day wearing a long skirt (it has a very low bar on it and a chain guard). I'm quite sure I could still cycle it if I was wearing a burka, I just wouldn't be able to see the traffic. :-P

Seriously though, this reminds me of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's comments (in "infidel") about how nice it is to cycle with the wind in your hair. I'm sorry that these women are missing out on that. :-(

122. Bible drawn into Hong Kong sex publication row

Comment #41878 by Luthien on May 17, 2007 at 8:47 am

Hey Privateeye, I say we start by sueing the Giddions for distributing the thing to every school, hotel, and hospital in the country!

123. Pope Warns of Globalization, Marxism

Comment #41442 by Luthien on May 16, 2007 at 6:05 am

He also warned of unfettered capitalism and globalization. Before boarding a plane for Rome later Sunday, he said the two could give "rise to a worrying degradation of personal dignity through drugs, alcohol and deceptive illusions of happiness".


Well, religion certainly gives "rise to a worrying degradation of personal dignity through communion wafers, alcohol and deceptive illusions of happiness"

...the historical Catholic identity of the region is under assault.


Oh, that is ironic given the other article on how the Catholic Church helped destroy the cultural identity of South America (along with many lives).

124. Brazil's Indians Offended by Pope Comments

Comment #41437 by Luthien on May 16, 2007 at 5:57 am

Speaking of advisors; reminds be of a gary larson cartoon "The pope is inflateable".

Seriously though, what do you expect from a Nazi?

125. BBC man says 'I was wrong to lose it. But these scientologists are truly scary'

Comment #40866 by Luthien on May 15, 2007 at 6:04 am

14. Comment #40767 by Corylus on May 14, 2007 at 11:28 pm
I wouldn't have shouted: I would have decked the little toe-rag.


That is what everyone I know said after seeing it :-)

126. Furor over author Ayaan Hirsi Ali's visit stirs debate on religious freedom

Comment #40808 by Luthien on May 15, 2007 at 3:07 am

To all of you who seem to have a problem with AEI (yes, that old chestnut gets trawled out every time she gets a mention on this site) let me assure you that you have nothing to worry about.

Hirsi Ali will speak her mind, and she will continue to speak her mind. If they try to use her to further some "cause" of their own is will spectacularly backfire. She puts great thought into her opinions, but none into her position or status, indeed not even her personal safety before she speaks her mind (she deals with the consequences, she just doesn't regulate her opinions based on fear of them). This amazing woman is more than equal to the AEI, as I am sure time will tell.

127. God: The Failed Hypothesis and The Comprehensible Cosmos (book reviews)

Comment #40319 by Luthien on May 14, 2007 at 5:52 am

The tragedy of the 21st century is that so few people have been equipped by the education system to take that journey into hard-won insight. Which is probably one reason, when the pain and confusion of life become too great to bear, so many of us turn to Xenu or God and abandon the struggle to understand.


Exactly! It is interesting to note that those I know who showed an early interest in science (beyond the school curriculum) were the ones who broke with the programming. I knew religion was rubbish by the age of 8 only because I had a little pop up book called "The Universe" that taught me all about the Big Bang, and how everything formed, how vast it all was, and how the universe might eventually end. If I were a primary school teacher I would be introducing my class to some of the basic concepts like this, and getting them to draw pictures of black holes, or how they think the Big Bang looked (because this gets them actually thinking about it beyond what they are told).

128. God: The Failed Hypothesis and The Comprehensible Cosmos (book reviews)

Comment #40318 by Luthien on May 14, 2007 at 5:52 am

The tragedy of the 21st century is that so few people have been equipped by the education system to take that journey into hard-won insight. Which is probably one reason, when the pain and confusion of life become too great to bear, so many of us turn to Xenu or God and abandon the struggle to understand.


Exactly! It is interesting to note that those I know who showed an early interest in science (beyond the school curriculum) were the ones who broke with the programming. I knew religion was rubbish by the age of 8 only because I had a little pop up book called "The Universe" that taught me all about the Big Bang, and how everything formed, how vast it all was, and how the universe might eventually end. If I were a primary school teacher I would be introducing my class to some of the basic concepts like this, and getting them to draw pictures of black holes, or how they think the Big Bang looked (because this gets them actually thinking about it beyond what they are told).

129. Pope: God Will Punish Drug Dealers

Comment #40309 by Luthien on May 14, 2007 at 5:30 am

"human dignity cannot be trampled upon in this way."


Yup, only the Church is allowed to do that!

130. French Muslim women opt for hymen surgical cons

Comment #39844 by Luthien on May 12, 2007 at 5:03 am

27. Comment #39837 by Richard Morgan on May 12, 2007 at 4:40 am

Talking about Cosmopolitan on a Richard Dawkins site is rather missing the point. Or perhaps not - from somebody for whom being "invisible" is a happy state.


I can see you have never had the misfortune to incurr the crude attentions of a large group of males, who's reaction to a young woman is to engage in verbal abuse that is both sexual and physically threatening. I would imagine that the vast majority of women would find "invisible" a happy state in these circumstances.

(Go read "Tess of the d'Urbervilles" if you feel you need a woman's eye view of why this "invisibility" might be desired. She cuts off her eyebrows at one point because covering her head is not enough to guarantee her safety.)

131. French Muslim women opt for hymen surgical cons

Comment #39839 by Luthien on May 12, 2007 at 4:50 am

Veronique,

ignore the "bitter people". I suspect you are right that a lot of men out there are not worth the effort. Not because they are not good people, but because they are trailing the baggage of their theistic and cultural expectations of women. When it became apparent that I was going to break up with one guy (from a catholic background), he told me that I should be ashamed of myself for sleeping with him. I think he had some sort of twisted view that there should be no going back for me, or that I would be "damaged goods" for anyone else (I have heard stories from friends about the all male Catholic run grammer schools, and how teachers have explicitly told their students that women are "damaged goods" in these circumstances). The only men worth the effort are the rational men, who are truely capable of seeing women as their equal, and not somehow their "property" to be protected from other men. This notion that a partner is your "property" is the primary reason for jealousy in any relationship. If you believe that a person stays with you because of their own free will, you will not be paranoid about every other man (or women, I have seen women make the "property" mistake too) who looks their way.

I think the obsession with cosmetic surgery probably ties in with what Bonzai was saying about women marketing themselves as a comodity, although there is of course a strong evolutionary drive to make the most of your appearence to attract the opposite sex (as usual, this is more complicated than just having "one reason", and many people have cosmetic surgery because of a personality disorder).

132. Anderson Cooper interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #39404 by Luthien on May 10, 2007 at 2:18 pm

Ireland has just recovered from 25 years of too much religion???

More like 800 years of too much religion!

133. Supporters of abortion have no future in Church, Pope tells faithful

Comment #39092 by Luthien on May 10, 2007 at 1:12 am

Good news from Ireland, the girl fighting for an abortion won her case:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6639673.stm

"Doctors said Miss D's foetus has anencephaly, a condition which means that a large part of the brain and skull is missing.

Babies with anencephaly live a maximum of just three days after birth."


Horriffic that someone would try to make a 17 year old girl carry this to full term!

134. Atheist offers to send letters post-Rapture

Comment #38827 by Luthien on May 9, 2007 at 9:09 am

Also check out:

http://www.officialgodfaq.com/

135. Better God-fearing than sneering

Comment #38757 by Luthien on May 9, 2007 at 5:46 am

There is a further tendency on the part of both authors to disregard the good that comes from religious faith in terms of charity and spiritual comfort. 'Is truth less important than comfort, even for the lonely and afraid? Are there not truthful ways to comfort them from the resources of human compassion?' Grayling asks. Well, yes, is the answer, but he fails to acknowledge that, too often, it is only the churches which bother to comfort the lonely and the dying; part of their attraction is that there is too little kindness in the world.


Is it "good" that churches prey on the lonely, vulnerable, and dying, earning incomes that run into billions (Tax free)?

136. Christopher Hitchens and Al Sharpton: A Debate God Is Not Great

Comment #38552 by Luthien on May 8, 2007 at 3:28 pm

I know this ain't the right place, but can someone post this story up on the site?

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg19426024.000-canada-probes-tb-genocide-in-churchrun-schools.html

Genocide in church run schools in Canada!

137. The New Atheists loathe religion far too much to plausibly challenge it

Comment #38229 by Luthien on May 7, 2007 at 9:19 am

19. Comment #38188 by Corylus on May 7, 2007 at 7:31 am

I also have the Koran in my 'to read' pile, but I admit I haven't worked up the guts to wade through it yet. Every quote I have read from it depresses me and I fear it will be more of the same. Maybe I should take a leaf out of Hitchens book and do it on Dutch courage? Even if that does mean that I will be damned to hell before I start :)


Hey, try reading it using the skeptics annotated Koran.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

Please note that the "good stuff" section is unsurprisingly short ;-)

138. Those fanatical atheists

Comment #38152 by Luthien on May 7, 2007 at 6:06 am

For goodness sake, people, the talking wolf in Little Red Riding Hood is more plausible.


Yup, that's going up as my Messenger quote of the day :-)

139. Atheists go on the political offensive in God-fearing US

Comment #38006 by Luthien on May 6, 2007 at 4:17 pm

3. Comment #37982 by Bizarro Dawkins:

...people like myself can show the public that one can be an intellectually fulfilled Christian.


Hehehe... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

*pauses to wipe tears from eyes*

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

Oh stop it, my sides are hurting!

hehehehehehehehehehehehe...

(Ooh, my cat is now looking at me as if I am mad.)

140. 'No proof Jesus heals Aids'

Comment #37859 by Luthien on May 6, 2007 at 3:25 am

12. Comment #37754 by Aaron SF on May 5, 2007 at 3:54 pm

What is it with this week and me and angry homo issues? And I seem to be getting angrier, maybe I should take a break and go post on a knitting forum for a while.


Nah, you would end up posting:

NO NO NO! How many times do I have to tell you, the rabbit goes through the F%&*ing hole and around the tree!

141. Interview with Pierre Rehov

Comment #37854 by Luthien on May 6, 2007 at 3:12 am

10. Comment #37834 by Vardu on May 6, 2007 at 12:19 am

...imagining salvation as happening after death so that one can create a living death for oneself during life.


Great line, I am going to steal that one for debating with christians :-)

142. Interview with Pierre Rehov

Comment #37765 by Luthien on May 5, 2007 at 4:22 pm

1. Comment #37743 by roach on May 5, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Very interesting. But I don't think Islam is a beautiful religion. I've only read 15 or so pages from the Qur'an but it wasn't pleasant. I'm sure there are lots of beautiful people who happen to be Muslim though.


Oh, that really irritated me when he said it was a "beautiful religion"...

For a nice (but very long) list of cruelties, check out
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

143. Your favorite book in the last 25 years?

Comment #37278 by Luthien on May 4, 2007 at 1:24 am

You guys arguing over conciousness, try reading "A User's Guide to the Brain" by John Ratey.

144. The Damned

Comment #36857 by Luthien on May 2, 2007 at 2:15 pm

6. Comment #36855 by briancoughlanworldcitizen on May 2, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Um ... "kaffir" thats an unusual handle ... any particular reason you're using it?


Have you read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book Infidel? That's where I found out what that meant. All I can say is YIKES!

145. The Damned

Comment #36856 by Luthien on May 2, 2007 at 2:12 pm

I want the Muslim hell, they are much more creative with their violence. I mean, would a christian think of giving you a new skin so you han have it burnt off again (yes, it's in the Koran)?

I went and gave it 5 stars BTW;)

146. Now Muslims Get Their Own Laws In Britian

Comment #36690 by Luthien on May 2, 2007 at 3:01 am

Non-Muslims are excluded from the secretive court which is registered as a charity to receive British tax benefits.


How can they give them charitable status?!?!

147. Why the Gods Are Not Winning

Comment #36674 by Luthien on May 2, 2007 at 1:49 am

"Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run."

Mark Twain

148. Believe in God Spray

Comment #36252 by Luthien on April 30, 2007 at 4:22 pm

17. Comment #36242 by mjwemdee on April 30, 2007 at 3:43 pm
avatar@ scottishgeologist #36236

Well I guess you could say these are 'mints with the ontological "hole"'

[Maybe only UK readers will get that...]


Hehe, good one :D

149. Against All Gods, by A C Grayling

Comment #36117 by Luthien on April 30, 2007 at 8:14 am

7. Comment #36077 by Peacebeuponme on April 30, 2007 at 6:18 am
By the way, while you are on, Luthien. That avatar made my day when I first saw it. where can we get the T-shirt!


www.jesusandmo.net

150. Against All Gods, by A C Grayling

Comment #36072 by Luthien on April 30, 2007 at 6:06 am

However, Grayling should be careful of announcing religion's "death throes".


I think Grayling is right. Think about how religious "communities" are going to greater and greater lengths to isolate themselves and their children from the real world. Why? Well, I think that exposure to the real world is now all it takes to see through any religion, and the only way to combat it is to make their "flock" increasingly paranoid. We have gone from Bertrand Russell's "teapot" scenario, to one where people know what a teapot is, and where you should and shouldn't find them.

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