101. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63889 by Nails on August 16, 2007 at 2:38 pm

Sorry to break this to you guys, but this seems to be a habit with these theist types. I don't know if it is purely a neural thing, but in general their brains really cannot accept any logical arguments and they just run away.
I've even tried debating on a christian forum, and the same happens (unil a mod comes along and accuses you of hijacking a thread just as you're about to whoop ass).
Sometimes they return, but never with the answers.
Never with evidence, because their idea of evidence is a book of stories.
I belive that Jason was real, as were his argonauts but i don't worship his 'teachings' or pretend that if I sail well and don't get lost we'll spend eternity having a nice picnic together.
And that's the bottom line, we cannot understand them and they cannot understand us. It really is that simple.
And as for reincarnation D2, that's just obscene.
Don't you know that only the son of god (who is actually god, and so talks to himself and has names for his different personalities) can be reincarnated - otherwise there's no point in worshipping him!!!
He suddely becoes mr. average!!!
Karma, now I have no problem with that one, I love coconut in my curries.
Yum yum.
So next time you come to debate D2, bring some real weapons - evidence.
And your use of a great mans name is, well, quite frankly blasphemous and offensive.

102. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #63473 by Nails on August 14, 2007 at 12:53 pm

137. Comment #62672 by Yaweh on August 10, 2007 at 7:43 pm

I must confess I know little of Islam, and what little I do know appears to be in keeping with old testicle.

but if you guys really are god's people, why did he wait so long to tell you?
why didn't he tell anyone else?
And why do you have to blow up people who don't believe? (sorry, this is meant very much tongue-in-cheek. I know that very few muslims would do such a thing).

103. Our Lives, Controlled From Some Guy's Couch

Comment #63454 by Nails on August 14, 2007 at 12:10 pm

In fact, if you accept a pretty reasonable assumption of Dr. Bostrom's, it is almost a mathematical certainty that we are living in someone else's computer simulation.

"My gut feeling, and it's nothing more than that," he says, "is that there's a 20 percent chance we're living in a computer simulation."

Have I misread something or is this guy in need of an enema?

104. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #62916 by Nails on August 12, 2007 at 10:01 am

LeeC, i sent you a pm. look forward to joining you!!

105. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #62813 by Nails on August 11, 2007 at 4:05 pm

Ash, sorry but this is a long one - too much time on my hands it would appear.

There is a lot of unwarrented agression around on this site.

I totally agree, although I must hold my hand up as being part of that.
Quite a contrast to a christian forum, don't ya think?
I logged onto one a week or so ago and got 'blessed' to death before I had a chance to post!!
Most of them bend over backwards not to offend you as well, sometimes saying 'sorry' before they finish!!

Hitler:

And, for the benefit of the Catholic Hitler experts; I suppose when he spent a fortune in time, resources and top men on digging into pagan myths, in an attempt to prove them true (so as to establish a lineage, religion & ancient arian history) for propaganda purposes, he was a practicing catholic at the same time?

Atheist? Pagan? make your mind up. He was interested in the power of the occult, daft enough to believe in god, hate jews and daft enough to believe in witchcraft. He also spent a lot of time, money and resources having his top scientists build rockets but I doubt he had any intention of embracing science, becoming an atheist and landing on the moon.

Final word (from me I hope, but I'm sure you will respond) on religious wars, I have never claimed that the battles were made in god's name, merely that they were fought by people on grounds of faith - ie N. Ireland, catholic vs proddy, Bosnia, christian vs muslim etc.
Never forget Iran's un-armed suicide squads of the Iran-Iraq war, willing to be martyred by other muslims for the defence of their country.
As Iraq was then funded by America, Iran fought back by sending men in their hundreds to storm bunkers. The only weapons were those they could find on the battlefields. I appreciate that you can argue that this is just brain washing or nationaism, its just more severe when done in gods name because then death becomes a blessing. Think of someone who dies a hero, saving a life. Compare to someone who is martyred, usually to 'defend their faith' (for nothing). How many heroes have their own public holidays? Enough said.
You could argue that once the seperation into two groups has been made, it is of no consequence what the groups are. Rangers and celtic spring to mind - for those not versed in Scottish Football (soccer, perhaps?) they are two Glaswegian teams who are supported by predominantly catholic or proddies.
The violence that ensued was sometimes awful (between supporters mainly), indeed rangers first catholic player was brought to the club in the 1989, such was the feeling surrounding it. It was so bad that even draymen (Those wonderful men who fill our pubs with beer) had to wear white overalls as green or blue were taken as colours of allegiance to one team and could sometimes result in violence.....
anecdotal evidence: a former player's autobiography, serialised in the Scottish paper The Daily Record:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15926094&method=full&siteid=66633&headline=graeme-souness-prayed-i-would-be-the-first-catholic-to-join--rangers-name_page.html

Shocking really.

Oh, and the bible is littered with references to war and violence in gods name (Numbers 31):

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them.

For those who don't know the ending, they killed every man in the city and took the women and animals as spoils of war. Then moses said (in anger):

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Vengeance indeed.

And "science tells us . . ." is not an argument

Then I shall support it with fact, as you will not take my word for it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

You should really watch the video of it, it is truly shocking. A real eye-opener.
Here's a link to the audio, which is bad enough.

http://learningat.ke7.org.uk/socialsciences/Psychology/PsyRes13/Milgram.htm

As the experiment conclusively shows, humans will administer all kinds of pain to another human when given the order by an authority figure, often shifting the blame and weakly justifying the horror they have caused. I will leave it up to you as to whether we can extrapolate this to the authority of god.

Have a good holiday and I will look forward to your reply.

106. Charles Brooker's screen burn

Comment #62795 by Nails on August 11, 2007 at 1:01 pm

NHS recently spent £10m refurbishing the London Homeopathic Hospital. The equivalent of 500 nurses' wages, blown on a handful of magic beans. That was your tax money. It was meant for saving lives.

I'm sick of hearing this. It is incorrect, someone has not checked his facts and it is starting to piss me off.

So I'm going to do something about it...

*watch this space*

107. Science and the Islamic World

Comment #62793 by Nails on August 11, 2007 at 12:56 pm

18. Comment #62769 by the great teapot on August 11, 2007 at 10:06 am

I'm really sorry but that link is a great big fiddle.
The actual calculation is 11% out, as indicated in the calculation.
To correct this they take the earth-moon system out of the sun's gravity, which is obviously not going to happen, even with Allah's help.
So they fiddled it. End of.
nice try though.....

108. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #62402 by Nails on August 9, 2007 at 3:41 pm

Yes LeeC, evidence.
We require evidence.
Simple really.
Like evidence of the star of bethlehem.
Funny how the chinese, who 2000 years ago were recording everything that moved in the heavens, failed to spot this mighty cellestial arrow pointing towards bethlehem..
could it be that this story was added later in order to fulfil a prophesy that was in danger of being unfulfilled?
You must admit that, as biblical stories were written so long after the event, possibly being handed down by word of mouth a few times (or few hundred) that some things have been exagerted a little?
And how come a god who can write in the complex language of DNA needs humans to write it down for him?
Why not write it himself and hand it over. Simple that way, no debate.
Or even just ask noah et al to write it down there and then.
To put this into context, look at the divisions in the muslims between sunni and shia.
A lot of their bloody argument is based on who and when the book was written by, as their prophet apparantly didn't think it important at the time.

109. Curriculum for Baptist School

Comment #62386 by Nails on August 9, 2007 at 2:23 pm

This should be illegal.
do you guys not have a trades description act that you can prosecute these nutters under?
Calling itself a school when it's just a jumped up church with more than one book (but not many more, obviously)

Cartomancer - cracking bit of postulating there.

110. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #62195 by Nails on August 8, 2007 at 5:28 pm

90. Comment #62036 by Ash Roskell on August 8, 2007 at 1:44 am

Hello Nails, Your comments regarding the Kamikazee pilots seemed to answer itself. Brainwashing, not religion or faith. Just a bit of a con which turned otherwise normal human beings into suicide divebombers.

Unfortunately not, Ash. The Japanese effectively worshipped their emperor as a deity, so we are on a similar line here.
Kamikazee was not there ultimate objective however, I have it on good authority that may were instructed to carry out their bombing missions on US ships and return - the crash attacks were initially saved for these who were damaged and unlikely to return. As the tactic became so effective, the rules changed slightly as we all know. Another take on this is one small group who were sent to America in submarine-type vessels, with the intention of blowing themselves up. One poor guy 'malfunctioned' and his device failed to explode. He returned home and was shunned by friends and family for his dishonour....
But the suicide bombing argument is valid. Science tells us that people will follow instructions, up to a point, however nasty the outcome by people in authority. The higher the authority, the greater the risk of nasty and/or violent instructions being carried out. Although this hasn't yet been scientifically demonstrated at the 'god' level, I think you know where its going....

This Hitler / Catholic thing. You really should let it go. He did not require catholisism from the men who faught under him, or those who committed war crimes in his regime. There were none believers, people who believed in the spurious myths they tried to dig up from the past (including Hitler by the way - not so devout a catholic after all) people who thought of themselves as Christian; they even had muslims in the SS (bet you didn't know that? ;) ) So, baring in mind that nobody cried, "for the Pope!" when running into battle or carried a Papal banner

I'm sorry, I thought you brought it up:

40. Comment #57886 by Ash Roskell on July 22, 2007 at 1:05 am

But if you want to read some bad horror stories about atheistic ragimes, try Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Poll Pot and many more in all good stockists near you now.

Oh yes, that's right - you did.
But did Allied troops fight under a banner of god? no, so they must have been atheist as well. Does that mean that the crusade was the ONLY religious war ever, or will you try and wriggle out of that one as well?
You are right, i didn't know that Hitler had muslims in the SS, but given the rapid depletion of his forces I would imagine he contemplating enlisting Jews at one point..... (bad joke, sorry)

put all of these faiths and none faiths together and what have you got? A-THEISM. Q.E.D.

?????
Faith + non-faith = atheism?
I'm sure you didn't mean that. That would make the inquisistion an atheist movement if one person had an inkling of doubt about his faith while he tortured some poor person for making up an opinion of their own...

111. Eight-million-year-old bug is alive and growing

Comment #62189 by Nails on August 8, 2007 at 4:24 pm

Hmmm, bit of a let doen really. Seems that the permian bacteria may not be from that period at all:

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/18/6/1143

112. Eight-million-year-old bug is alive and growing

Comment #62185 by Nails on August 8, 2007 at 4:20 pm

23. Comment #62136 by bamboospitfire on August 8, 2007 at 9:52 am

"Whereas the young ice contained a variety of microorganisms, the researchers found only one type of bacterium in the 8-million-year-old sample. It also grew in the laboratory but much more slowly, doubling only every 70 days."

Despite my basic understanding of biology and genetics, this is the best bit, for me. Since we're looking at bacteria, I suppose one would expect to see less variety in the older ice. One would also expect the younger bacteria multiply more quickly since, everything else being equal, 7.9 million years of evolution will inevitably select for genes the organisms of which can replicate faster than others.

I wouldn't have thought that 8 million years would have made that much difference to the basic function of a bacterium, compared to 3.5 billion years previous.
Maybe enough to establish closer links to a particular species/phylum/order etc.
Without further research, I would imagine that the slow reproductive rates are in itself an evolutionary response to the lack of nutrients and colder conditions - chemical reactions are temperature-dependant after all.
I would love to know more about the Bacillus permians though, may have to google it and see what I can find....

113. Arrogance, dogma and why science - not faith - is the new enemy of reason

Comment #61984 by Nails on August 7, 2007 at 6:08 pm

Shit, I really wish I had read this earlier.
Never mind, I have commented on the rag's website (not that it will be featured) and emailed the editor (not that he will ever read it).

Dear Sir,

Melanie Phillips has made a few basic errors in her recent article (Arrogance, dogma and why science - not faith - is the new enemy of reason, 5th August 2007) which I feel I must correct.

Firstly, there is mounting scientific evidence that evolution began before the first life-forms as replicating molecules became more efficient, and this certainly does not break any rules. But it does account for one major step on the road to life-forms such as those we see around us today.

Secondly, natural selection is not random. I will leave it to you as to whether you wish to find out why, if you do not already know.

Futhermore, the origins of life could not have been spontaneous or miraculous, it would most probably have been gradual and over many hundreds of thousands of years.

Which logically leads to the dissembling of another of Melanie's arguments, that DNA evidence most certainly has thrown doubt into the theory that life emerged spontaneously in a random universe - this theory is commonly known as 'creationism'.

Intelligent Design is a theory which is propagated by one distinguished scientist, Michael Behe. So distinguished that his own university has issued a disclaimer against his theory. This theory has not only been rubbished by his peers, it was effectively dismantled in the courts of Dover not so long ago, despite his personal testimony.

I do hope that any future articles you publish may take note of scientific evidence and not heresay and scaremongering.

Yours truly,

Made me feel better though.

114. Does the Bible have a place in public schools?

Comment #61746 by Nails on August 6, 2007 at 5:25 pm

Yes, without a shadow of doubt. Learning about the bible is to learn a large and rich part of our history, its strengths and weaknesses should be discussed in schools.
But caution must be employed to ensure that children are not indoctonated and are free to question the texts and to examine their origins.
In a perfect world there would be nothing wrong with comparing different bibles to see how interpretaitions differ across faiths, but it really does need stunningly good teachers to pull this off.
Unfortunately, I fear that the pitfalls outway the potential benefits to such a scheme.
But personnaly I found that studying the bible only strenghtened my atheism - but that is possibly because I chose to study and was not force-fed the popular congregation soundbites.

115. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61744 by Nails on August 6, 2007 at 4:54 pm

86. Comment #61710 by Steven Mading on August 6, 2007 at 1:11 pm
An interesting point, but I personally believe that more stringent controls would have been an even more important factor in the results.
Trials can be conducted where subjects are not told what they are taking (sedative, anti-depressant etc) to eliminate any preconceptions.
Note the key point - placebos can be 100% ineffective in certain circumstances.

116. Imagine No Religion

Comment #61740 by Nails on August 6, 2007 at 4:05 pm

2. Comment #34800 by coolwainy on April 25, 2007 at 9:26 am Shouldn't you change your log in to "loony"? Instead of picking holes in your post, I would merely invite you to read TGD (if you already have, then read it properly this time) and watch your words disappear down the u-tube, where they belong.

117. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #61557 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 6:01 pm

think Nails you are creating a god with your method, not falsifying one.

But as there is no evidence, the whole premise is false therfore it is falsified (or is that a quantum leap in logic)
Anyhow, I'll keep checking to see if Ash returns, though I doubt it.
Must be feeling lonely.
They do run away easily, don't they?
Maybe it is time we fought them in their own backyard, so to speak....

118. Islamic creationist group launches glitzy, global blitz

Comment #61551 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 5:44 pm

"Hitler, Mao, and Lenin were Darwinists. At the root of wild capitalism is also Darwinism. I think if we no longer believe in Darwinism, people will no longer be conditioned to believe in those things,"

But it will not be enough to prove it isn't the truth....
A quarter of the UK follows their horoscopes, it doesn't make them true either.
wild capitalism = Darwinism - I would love to see some evidence for this.
But this guy doesn't do evidence, obviously.
Sad, sad state of affairs.

119. Public Debate on Complexity and Evolution

Comment #61547 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 5:28 pm

7. Comment #61182 by gcdavis on August 4, 2007 at 3:49 am

On a rather more specific point, the last question wasn't answered completely. Take the evolution of a wing, presumably it doesn't offer an evolutionary advantage until it becomes a functioning wing, so what is it the "drives" the intermediate stages, having a couple of "stubs" might even be a disadvantage?

Imagine a dinosaur, a raptor. You can run fast, use your arms and have soft downy feathers for display/warmth (the actual reason does not matter). If you grow a small skin flap behind your arms, it may well help you to steer better at high speed - a deffinate advantage. Every increase in its size (up to a point, obviously) will increase stability.
If the feathers become less downy and more streamlined, they will still retain the original function (warmth, display, whatever) but will become more aerodynamic.
Over the generations, these small changes can accumulate and have a massive effect, as I will leave to your imagination.
Sorry if I have plagerised someone, I just remember reading this example somewhere.

37. Comment #61323 by phasmagigas on August 4, 2007 at 4:11 pm

the discussion of the underweight mothers resulting in underweight grandchildern was interesting.

I havn't watched it, but my undersdtanding of this can be explained by methylation. Basically, a methyl group is 'added' (sorry, can't think of a better word right now) t the DNA sequence which basically results in the gene not being transcribed as a consequence of environmental factors.
Should this effect be system wide, (ie whole body) then gamette - forming cells will also be effected, and the gene is passed on to the next generation in an inactive state. Exactly how it can be reactivated I do not know, but evidently it can and the 3rd generation can be more like the 1st.
note - it is a long time since I studied so I may be off the mark, please be kind if you critique !!!

120. A Designer Universe?

Comment #61501 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 11:27 am

If I was to design a universe, I would probaly try everything I could to make the galaxies closer together. Sure it is nice to see the faint stars on a clear night, but is that all they are for?
Sure, god made the lot just for us and no-one else, so he must have known that one day we would want to explore space. Yet he made it virtually impossible for us to travel to other star systems.
What a bastard.

121. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61500 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 11:20 am

26. Comment #61412 by Richard Morgan on August 5, 2007 at 4:53 am

What are talking about is the placebo effect, as has been noted in previous posts. It works, but the medicine doesn't. And at a time when GPs are not perscribing placebos for ethical reasons (and fear of malpractice lawsuits) then why should these people charge inflated prices for a treatment that doesn't do anything?

Let me pull you some stats to explain.

The success rate of placebos entered folklore when it was shown in trials to be around 35% (Beecher, 1955).
However, other trials have not been so successful, notably Hrobjartsson and Gotzsche in 2001, who concluded the effect was negligable when comparing 100 trials with real medicine, placebo and no treatment at all.
But you can argue either way about how the trials were handled, but the big one for me is that homeopathy and placebos have a zero effectiveness on diabetes and amputations, same as praying. 'nuff said.

37. Comment #61472 by discipline on August 5, 2007 at 9:43 am

This is not the direction the 'new atheist' movement is going, RD is the Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. It is his job to increase the understanding of science in the world, and one way to do this is demolish myths, be it superstitions or con-men practising medicine.
The more people know about this sort of racket, the more can be done to quell it.
Simple.

16. Comment #61392 by Richard Dawkins on August 5, 2007 at 3:01 am

Thank you for your clarification. In one of your books (sorry, can't remember which one) you stated your father was an officer - I took this to be an indication of a career soldier as well, but I do understand the likelyhood of older generations engaging in military service, both my grandparents served in WWII.

122. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61378 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 2:03 am

"No, nobody in my family involved in the military at all," is the glacially polite reply.

Was RD playing devil's advocate here? I thought that his father was an officer, so maybe I'm just plain wrong or he was trying to see if the 'psychic' (psychotic?) could see through him.

123. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61364 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 12:55 am

V,

I am so concerned with the public notices that abound in our local newspaper. I did see an advert that claimed you could change your DNA (3x$80 sessions). Holy shit! I wonder how many people parted with their hard-earned cash to go along to that charlatan?

Jesus, that's bad.
Over here in the UK we only pay £5 for a packet of cigarettes and hope that will do the trick.....

124. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61363 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 12:52 am

Dawkins is horrified that 25% of the British public has some belief in astrology – more than in any one established religion – and that more newspaper column inches are devoted to horoscopes than to science.

Now here is something we can all become involved in - we need to tell our family, colleages and friends about the lies and stupidity of such nonsense. We need to pour scorn on those who pay for astro-texts and the like.

The creationists can prepare for a rocky ride from Dawkins the year after next, which will be the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birth and 150th anniversary of the publication of On the Origin of Species. "It's going to be a big Darwin year," he says with undisguised relish.

Can't wait.

125. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #61355 by Nails on August 5, 2007 at 12:16 am

It's about time someone made a public stance againt these nutters, and after comments in TGD I'm not suprised it's RD. Go get 'em!!!Can't wait to see this mini series.

But yesterday, Miss Livingstone hit back. "I have a 100 per cent success record with people at some level," she told The Sunday Telegraph. "Richard seemed to enjoy it while he was here. He was smiling and he didn't want it to stop.

Probably laughing his tits off at her absurd claims.

The refurbishment of the Royal London Homeopathic hospital was part-funded with £10 million of NHS money.

Situated right next door to Great Ormond Street Hospital, this building houses offices and clinics for the greatest children's hospital in the world.
And I can assure you it does not just house new-age dilluders, there are some very fine doctors and nurses working there!!!!

126. Could these books be part of the problem?

Comment #61318 by Nails on August 4, 2007 at 3:31 pm

Wow! what a coincidence!!!
I found a very similar book on my mother's bookshelf a couple of days ago, and I read her the first page.
I harps on about the roots of religion; how 3,000 or so years ago mankind was a struggling to find answers and basically survive, most children died young and 30 was a a good life expectancy....
So why then, are nearly all the biblical characters a few hundred years old?
The reply I got from my deluded mother?
"It's not to be taken literally, you know."

*shakes his head and sighs*

127. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #60301 by Nails on August 1, 2007 at 2:17 pm

77. Comment #59652 by LeeC on July 30, 2007 at 3:39 am

So back to the god question, I do not know how to falsify god, this theory is therefore not scientific

History has shown us one way to falsify god and it has been used more than once. just start the rumour, make it more fantastic than normal people would believe and then threaten them with eternal damnation if they don't agree.
Or, if the god illusio is prodominant, just tell everyone he has spoken to you and you alone in order to make the world a better place.
Easy peasy.

128. OUT Campaign Launched, 'Scarlet Letter' Shirts Now Available!

Comment #60265 by Nails on August 1, 2007 at 12:26 pm

I like the idea of an athiest t-shirt, but i'm not keen on the 'A'. I've looked on cafepress.com and seen some good ones, but one has me stumped - my latin is not good enough to translate it!!
Cogito (I think) ergo (therefore) dues (god/deity) non (no/not) est (?)
Can anyone finish it for me?
Would still prefer the 'evolution' t-shirt RD wore in Galapagos recently....

129. Ducking the God Question

Comment #60259 by Nails on August 1, 2007 at 12:06 pm

Richard Dawkins, the most convincing of the recent atheist flame throwers, has employed his status as an Oxford University molecular biologist to systematically illuminate the thesis of his most recent book, The God Delusion.

molecular biologist?
Hope there are no more glaring errors in this otherwise well written article.

130. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #59724 by Nails on July 30, 2007 at 12:25 pm

Fides, I think you still misunderstand the childish bit.
My thoughts on this are quite clear - RD said childish and he meant it.
Religion is childish (in my humble opinion) but, as you quite rightly point out, should we discourage children from doing childish things?
Yes, we should.
Bullying is a childish act, for example. So is stomping your feet when you can't get your own way.
But children will not begin religious activities without a helping hand (even unintentional) from their parents or family.
But, from your point of view, if you failed to teach your child about religion then you would feel like you were failing in your duties to bring up your child as best you could.
It is a double edged sword and it is the right of every parent to continue as they see fit (within the realms of the law, of course).
So why childish?
Simple, when the hard questions about where we/this/that came from arise, the simplest option is offered, one that any child or infantile-minded person can understand. God did it. Because he loves us.
Yet many people who are much wiser than people of 2/3,000 years ago still follow this, even those who should know better.
But I guess from your point of view, we atheists whould know better than to gamble with our future in heaven/hell.

131. OUT Campaign Launched, 'Scarlet Letter' Shirts Now Available!

Comment #59281 by Nails on July 28, 2007 at 5:25 pm

Why does it have to be about conforming and being a 'group'?
Don't any of you wear sports shirts that show your support of a team or nation?
All we are doing by buying and wearing these is spreading a message of affiliation, that's all.

132. Welsh Hindus fight to save Shambo the sacred bull

Comment #59273 by Nails on July 28, 2007 at 4:40 pm

Oh crap. just found this little nugget:

Job 1

1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

OK, so job is a man of god, a good man who shuns evil but owns slaves.
Go figure.

133. Rapture Ready: The Unauthorized Christians United for Israel Tour

Comment #59247 by Nails on July 28, 2007 at 2:16 pm

This is scary stuff.
Are these people really ready to bring us closer to WWIII to advance their dreams of the saviour returning?
But religion and violence arn't linked, we've seen it written on here by fundies countless times...
We need words stronger than deluded i think.

BTW - scottishgeologist - I love the avatar.

134. Don't eat at the Outback Steakhouse on Route 3...

Comment #59156 by Nails on July 27, 2007 at 4:15 pm

Richard Morgan - I wasn't going to respond to your post because it is pathetic and child-like.
But it set me thinking.
Is that your son in the video?
Or one of his mates perhaps.
Maybe its Devolved.....

135. Resisting peer pressure: new findings shed light on adolescent decision-making

Comment #59150 by Nails on July 27, 2007 at 3:46 pm

6. Comment #59139 by Kakashi_monkey on July 27, 2007 at 2:27 pm

Peers pressure each other for many things, religion among them. Some christian kids bother the atheist ones, "You don't belive in god?! You should!" I have resisted peer pressure from my peers in my elementary school days about religion, and I stand strong for atheism. I hope most atheist kids and adults are capable of fending off religion attacks.

nice one kid, but take a good look around - most of us are more than capable of standing up to the 'righteous'.
In fact, I'm suprised at how easy it is to refute most religious arguments. I've yet to test myself against a member of the clergy but i'm trying to bait a friend of my mothers (who is a retired minister) into trying to convert me....
Should be interesting!

136. Welsh Hindus fight to save Shambo the sacred bull

Comment #58962 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 6:56 pm

21. Comment #58926 by dianalake on July 26, 2007 at 5:32 pm

Actually I expect to answer logically - I have read a few of Richard Dawkin's books and various others of a scientific bent. I have also got a degree in science, so I am not lacking in logic just because I'm a Christian.

Degree in science (but which science? and from where?) yet quotes Genesis as if it were fact....
So exactly what did they teach you in science?
And just how accurate is your education in science?
I hate to break it to you, but the earth is just a ltittle older than 10,000 years old and man was not created, he evolved. People don't, and never have, had children when they were 100+ or lived to six hundred and whatever Noah was supposed to be.
Why do we know this?
Because Science tells us so.
Biology, chemistry, physics, paeleontology - all have evidence that contradicts the bilical account of Genesis.
I look forward to your rested mind answering with facts, not fiction.
But to answer your point about where the bible mentions that slavery is OK - how about Genesis 20:17:

Then Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech, his wife and his slave girls so they could have children again

Did god tell Abraham that slavery was wrong?
No. he didn't.

Leviticus 22:11

But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food.

So preiest are allowed to buy slaves!!

Exodus 21

Exodus 21
1 "These are the laws you are to set before them:

Hebrew Servants
2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.
5 "But if the servant declares, 'I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,' 6 then his master must take him before the judges. [a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, [b] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Personal Injuries
12 "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. 13 However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.
15 "Anyone who attacks [c] his father or his mother must be put to death.

16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

18 "If men quarrel and one hits the other with a stone or with his fist [d] and he does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held responsible if the other gets up and walks around outside with his staff; however, he must pay the injured man for the loss of his time and see that he is completely healed.

20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

26 "If a man hits a manservant or maidservant in the eye and destroys it, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And if he knocks out the tooth of a manservant or maidservant, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the tooth.

28 "If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death. 30 However, if payment is demanded of him, he may redeem his life by paying whatever is demanded. 31 This law also applies if the bull gores a son or daughter. 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels [f] of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.

33 "If a man uncovers a pit or digs one and fails to cover it and an ox or a donkey falls into it, 34 the owner of the pit must pay for the loss; he must pay its owner, and the dead animal will be his.

35 "If a man's bull injures the bull of another and it dies, they are to sell the live one and divide both the money and the dead animal equally. 36 However, if it was known that the bull had the habit of goring, yet the owner did not keep it penned up, the owner must pay, animal for animal, and the dead animal will be his.

Ooh, look!! the rules of owning a slave!! How interesting.
And anyone who attacks their parents smust be stoned to death. No mention of rights for abused children though.
Romans 7:25

Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

And we are all god's little slaves, and so he can punish us as he sees fit.

137. Don't eat at the Outback Steakhouse on Route 3...

Comment #58949 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 6:25 pm

Exactly! the KKK and the Nazis were both notorious for allowing people to express unpopular views in an open and free forum

Brilliant.

138. Don't eat at the Outback Steakhouse on Route 3...

Comment #58946 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 6:15 pm

RD is a moderate now?
Hell, i thought that idiots like this usually described him as a fundamentalist!!
Leader of the atheist movement?
And why do you have a right to worship anyway?
The point about banning the bible as it preaches religious hatred and a homophobia is a valid one.
Le's not forget that people like this are used to cherry-picking waht they want and are used to censorship.
Again, the comments (not opinions, just a simple comment whether meant in jest or not is irrelevant) of one or two people becomes the manifesto of the many - talk about blind...
And this folks, is what we are dealing with here.
And wasn't that song crap as well.

139. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #58941 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 6:03 pm

How bizarre that I didn't get the Occom's razor quote, had to bloody google it!!!
My gran taught me about lex parsimoniae, that simple rules are better than grandious dogma. Strange, she was a very religious person.
*shakes his head*

140. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #58931 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 5:48 pm

74. Comment #58779 by newatheist on July 26, 2007 at 5:36 am

Hi Nails (Sorry to butt in late.)

Okay I had my rant pants on, but this wasn't just an insult. Coupled with the preceding line and the one that followed it, it was also a "cunningly abbreviated" commentary on Ash's manifest hypocrisy. ; ) Although no doubt the humour was lost in the harsh tone.

Maybe I'm the one who should be sorry for criticising you too easily and acting like I own the place.
Ash's comments were futile and contrictary, but I guess we are used to it on here now!!
I must confess I thought something very similar but I wanted to play devil's advocate.
The reason is quite clear, I suggested he read Mendel, he says he hasn't but has read Steve Jones and RD. I was waiting for him to trip himself up again but his god must have teleported him back to heaven.
As anyone who has any real interest in biology knows, Mendel described the rules of inheritance by observing peas and flowering patterns, amongst other traits. If he has seriously read RD or anyone else in biology/genetics then he wouldn't have to read Mendel, it would have been summerised of rhim already...
no doubt this one was lost somewhere as well.

141. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #58928 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 5:35 pm

141. Comment #58707 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 11:17 pm

Well Nails, Mea Culpa! I should have put it in better words. By labelling I don't mean forcing someone to identify himself as a Jew or a Christian. I was referring to the case where Labelling becomes an act of identifying someone according to his/her predispositions.
You say religion is not a character trait. Maybe not for a child, I agree. But a child of Faith, as Fide's son, gets labelled as a Christian or Jew by virtue of the people around him seeing him as one of them. Thats an innocent mistake on their part. As long as they don't limit him from knowing about other opposing views, they are being moral enough. A religious parent cannot be expected to keep his religious impulses a secret infront of his child. You have to understand that by Labelling a child christian, not every parent intends to censor him from other religions and belief system.

And your reply to my ".. are we our own God." is well taken. I was only trying to point out that maybe the idea of a God stems from such psychological traits that many of us had in our childhood. I was not trying to start a new Wooly-God based religion. You should my posts again. I don't say that God is in me or such stupid stuff. I was talking of God as "ME" passing judgements on "Myself". In some ways it mirrors your arguments against me in this regard.
I agree Goldy. Politeness is a belief only in that sense. I didn't mean that we require faith to take politeness seriously.

I have learned on here how easy it is to post without considering how other people can see your words in another light. It is a mistake i am trying hard to rectify but RD has admitted that people can twist words to suit their own purpose....
I hope I didn't twist your words, it is just how it appeared to me.
I am not personally comfortable with the labelling of children, but i wouldn't describe it as wicked either - i guess I'm a bit of a fence-sitter on this one.
But I accept your point that if the child grows up attending church etc. it will be seen to be in the same 'box' as the parents.
But i do strongly believe, based on personal experience, that when people pray for guidance they are merely summoning their own inner self to guide them - maybe a bit like talking out loud to yourself to help you remember something or increase its importance in the mind. But the end result is the same, the power is already within you.
you just have to know how to find it.

142. Welsh Hindus fight to save Shambo the sacred bull

Comment #58919 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 5:08 pm

Why can't they just get another one?
What is so special about this one bull?
Obviously nothing if it has TB, but you know what I mean.
dianalake - yes, you do have the right to your opinion and for it to be heard - but please don't expect any sympathy if it were your sacred bull.
At least they worship something real....

143. Proboscidean Mitogenomics: Chronology and Mode of Elephant Evolution Using Mastodon as Outgroup

Comment #58917 by Nails on July 26, 2007 at 4:57 pm

6. Comment #58914 by Steve19 on July 26, 2007 at 4:41 pm

Also, this article brings up the question: Will we ever be able to create a real Jurassic Park? And, could an elephant give birth to a Mastodon if we implanted a synthetic fertilized Mastodon egg?

I'm sure that the differences in tissue type and immune responses would be a major problem here.
Something tells me the immune system of the 'mother' would reject her 'egg' almost immediatly

144. Richler defends atheism

Comment #58675 by Nails on July 25, 2007 at 5:33 pm

No, I don't think he did.
I too have lent my copy out, but I seem remember him expressing distain at the use of the term for its lack of clarity and conviction.
But, he does explain that 'gay' was not the best of labels when it was first used by homosexuals but has served their purpose well.

145. Fewer Muslims 'back suicide bombs'

Comment #58665 by Nails on July 25, 2007 at 4:55 pm

I wish they had sampled other faiths and ahteists just to put a perspective on things.
Also note the question - specifically suicide bombings agains civilians.
i wonder how many support such action against a military target, even a 'soft' target?
Better, but still not good enough.

146. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #58664 by Nails on July 25, 2007 at 4:46 pm

As for Judas - what evidence do we have that he actually died a week after Jesus was crucified? I can only think of the Bible, and that's a bit dubious, isn't it?

That is exactly my point.

Matthew 26
The Plot Against Jesus
1When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2"As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified."
3Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. 5"But not during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."

Judas Agrees to Betray Jesus
14Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.
The Lord's Supper
17On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"
18He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.' " 19So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.

20When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me."

22They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?"

23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."[a]

Matthew 27
Judas Hangs Himself
1Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people came to the decision to put Jesus to death. 2They bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate, the governor.
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."
"What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."

5So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself

Source: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=26&version=31

Maybe less than a week then....

147. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #58657 by Nails on July 25, 2007 at 4:33 pm

Sorry if i refer to earlier texts, I've got a bit of catching up to do on this thread.....
So forgive me if anyone else has answered these points and I end up repeating.
67. Comment #58457 by the_assayer on July 24, 2007 at 11:49 pm

I agree with fides. Labelling cannot be termed as a wicked thing. Its something we do inorder to qualify someone's character.

WTF????
How is labelling someone (a child especially) aChristian supposed to qualify someone's character?
Religion is not a character trait. There are so many different interpretations of religious doctrine that make the label useless in my opinion.
The best anyone can hope for by being labelled a theist of any description is that they have lost the ability to think for themselves.

85. Comment #58488 by the_assayer on July 25, 2007 at 3:03 am

...In other words, are we in someways our own God?

Let's put this another way. If you pray for strength, where do you think this strength is going to come from?
That's right, you. By imagining you can gain help from a supernatural source implies that any help it imoarts was with you to start with, you just didn't know it.

148. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #58517 by Nails on July 25, 2007 at 4:44 am

LeeC - Almost like a whale. The only book of his I have read so its not much of a recommendation really but I enjoyed it.
Maybe I am a little closed in my mindset with regards to literature, a friend bought me a Carl Sagan book a few years ago (Cosmos) but I havn't even opened it. to be fair, there is a lot of biology-based books i want to read first; I've spent the last 15 or so years learning and working with biology - maybe it is time for a change.
With regards to the 'clan' statement I made earlier (for which I have been severely censured!!) i wish to make it clear that I have no wish to see atheist churches or workshops - if any of you have joined gaming clans then you will probably understand my sentiment. i feel the analogy was apt because sometimes it feels like the is hoard of atheists here ready to obliterate any theists who cross the path.... just like playing Halo 2 on x-box live...
But I will endevour to be more careful with my language in future to avoid siuations like this. Where I foresee a potential mindfield I will try and explain myself further before I finish the post.
In my defence, my actual line was "We are a clan if you like " - emphasis added later.
Quetzalcoatl - I saw a documentary on the Gospel of Judas a few months ago and it went into suprisingly little detail about its actual content especially for a National Geo programme. Basically, the crux was that Jesus told Judas to betray him, it was god's plan. Still don't get how he had the time to preach this as he was dead a little over a week later, allegedly. The other gospels would certainly be a useful read, but I guess their must have been a good reason for their suppression. there is also evidence of the early popes changing the direction of the teachings, linking Mary Magdeline with an un-named prostitute is a classic example and only serves to further prejudice women. How different life in Chriatianity would have been if there had been a leading woman in the bible....

149. The new preface to The God Delusion paperback and Q&A

Comment #58504 by Nails on July 25, 2007 at 4:14 am

Goldy, thank you for setting me straight on the Genghis Khan religious issue. Basically it was more of a guess than anything else as I havn't researched the issue, much like people who claim that Hitler was of no religious disposition.
Bonzai, Islam is something I would love to learn more about but most Muslims i know seem very reluctant to talk about their faith; either that or I have gained an unfair reputation and they don't want to end up debating with me....

One question I would love a theist to answer is how they can substanciate the biblical accounts.
After all, Jason and the Argonaughts is an old story with some elements of truth that are historically accurate. It was passed down by word of mouth and possibly altered, made more fantastic for generations before being written down. Maybe in modern times we have added a new level of drama for TV, I don't know. But is the bible any different?
After all, the gospels were written after their deaths and there is no written account from Jesus himself. There is suprisingly little written evidence from the Romans etc, so maybe his life was not such a big deal and the furore has arisen after his death.
Recently there has been an uncovering of a gospel of Judas - but how can that be if he hung himself three days after the betrayal?
if there are more gospels, as has been suggested, were they based on the actual teachings of the disciples or just words put in their name?
How can you prove their authenticity or accuracy?
Was the current edition of the bible ruthlessly edited by the early papel administration? And how does this effect its impartiallity as a historical document if others have been destroyed which could either corroborate or refute the biblical claims? Why were the other gospels destroyed?
Long question I know, please entertain me on this one. I need to know.

150. Richard Dawkins on Hardtalk

Comment #58418 by Nails on July 24, 2007 at 6:21 pm

Without reaching for my bookshelf i cannot prove that I am right....
Too tired.
Gone 2am here, time I was dreaming of a religion-free state... Goodnight to you all.