Comments by Quetzalcoatl

1551. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #157521 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 8:18 am

ASMarques-

Doesn't this systematic lack of focus present a problem to your skeptical mind? Why was the fog of human testimony & hearsay thought preferable to in loco forensic investigation of the criminal matter

Yes, why would they trust the testimony of the skeletal prisoners liberated from the camps? Of the soldiers who found them? And as for forensic investigation, what about the many mass graves found?

1552. Fleabytes

Comment #157480 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 6:39 am

Al-

that's probably my fault. I posted the link on several threads to make sure people saw it.

1553. Fleabytes

Comment #157473 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 6:22 am

Cartomancer-

but I suspect some unscrupulous FCOS boggart might be trying to take advantage of this little disagreement for his own ends

Perhaps, but surely Richard Morgan would have said so if that were the case? He has just posted.

1554. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157405 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 4:03 am

Styrer-

I agree with Steve. If consensus can be reached via PM discussion, then the results of that could be posted here. If, however, consensus could NOT be reached, a statement to that effect could also be posted here.

I appreciate that this has invoked strong sentiments on both sides. But at the moment the discussion has essentially degenerated into a slanging match. Perhaps PM might be the way to go to achieve resolution.

1555. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #157353 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 1:12 am

Paula-

it's a sign of respect. He's so afraid of angering you that he want's to make sure he gets your title correct :-)

1556. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #157346 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 12:58 am

Dr Benway-

I must admit, the thought crossed my mind. We will have to wait and see.

1557. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157116 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Yussel123-

Why can't God direct an average doctor to say you?

Why can't God direct a BIN MAN to save you? Now that would be faith.

1558. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157111 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 2:58 pm

A good question to religious people like that is: "So just what is it that makes science so reliable that you will literally entrust your lives to it EXCEPT when it conflicts with your faith? What prompts this sudden loss of confidence?"

Watch them struggle for an answer.

Styrer-

no offence, but it really is time to let this "debate" end.

1559. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #157087 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 2:46 pm

Don't have time to watch this all now, damn it! From skimming it, it sounds fascinating.

Completely off topic- Paula, you sound nothing like I expected you to!

1560. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157032 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 1:52 pm

I'm starting to wish I'd never put the damn link up to begin with.

1561. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156996 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Styrer-

I don't like the way this is going. The comments Al posted were only a sample of what was said. Richard did make sexist comments. I saw them. I saw Al's responses calling him on it. Others responded as well, and I'm sure when they're online they'll vouch to that.

There's no need for insults on this. While the comments might have been taken as jokes individually, they were persistent.

1562. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156963 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Styrer-

I'll corroborate what Al-Rawandi said. I read several comments Richard Morgan made towards Annabanana that were very inappropriate, and Al and others called him on it. Anna picked up on it too as I recall, but she doesn't need to be brought into this.

Peacebeuponme-

who say atheists have no joy? Me say me find funny too!

1563. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156956 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 12:35 pm

Peacebeuponme-

Yussel123 press troll button accidentally. Philip comment go troll. Yussel123 say sorry. All say ok. Philip laugh.

1564. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156868 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 10:50 am

Prankster-

Calling me Quetz is perfectly fine.

Phil Rimmer-

I'll be keeping an eye out for Robertson's response. Should be interesting reading.

Speaking of interesting reading, I liked your comment on Steve Zara's blog.

1565. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156867 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 10:45 am

Re RM's post-

I joylessly predict that it will be used as ammunition at some point when Clearthinker pays us another visit: "One of your own says that atheism is joyless and empty!!!"

I'm going to go take some Paracetamol, as I've used up my stash of Valium.

1566. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #156809 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 9:31 am

Everyone-

I just found this VERY interesting post on the "Dawkins Letters" thread of FCOS. I suggest everyone gives it a read:

http://www.fcosonline.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=79bce46b434b28dc7336ebb5c9952d17&topic=5.msg246#msg246

1567. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156807 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 9:27 am

1568. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156806 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 9:25 am

Everyone-

I just found this VERY interesting post on the "Dawkins Letters" thread of FCOS. I suggest that everyone gives it a read:

http://www.fcosonline.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=79bce46b434b28dc7336ebb5c9952d17&topic=5.msg246#msg246

1569. Fleabytes

Comment #156804 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 9:23 am

1570. In search of the God particle

Comment #156785 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 8:55 am

"Jesus will put a stop to this ungodly experiment." Thomas Jones, London, UK

I doubt it, Thomas.

1571. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156782 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 8:52 am

Dunf2562-

A lot of hostility in your post. If you take the time to read the rest of the comments, you'll see that there was a lot of debate about this.

1572. In search of the God particle

Comment #156765 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 8:32 am

irate-

it's also possible that the envelope, upon being opened, could be found to contain a very pissed-off cat.

1573. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156747 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 8:18 am

Irate-

WTF? Is 'Holby City' irredemably damaging me?

No. The fact that you even watch Holby City suggests that you are already irredeemably damaged. :-)

Yussel123-

I agree with Hungarian Elephant on this one. Just saying "look at the world" doesn't cut it, you have to demonstrate a causal connection.

1574. Fleabytes

Comment #156740 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 8:09 am

Might be Richard Morgan purging his comments.

1575. In search of the God particle

Comment #156728 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 7:55 am

I'll be keeping my eyes open for the findings of this.

1576. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156725 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 7:43 am

Yussel123-

since we're in broad agreement on the Hell point, I'll leave that alone for now.

however, you would have to distinguish between religious teachings that include burning in hell and those that don't.

There is an argument to be made for that. But even if you do distinguish between them, the issue them becomes: should the non-Hell religious teachings be taught to the child as fact? I don't believe so.

The fundamental difference between the fairy-tale and religious teaching examples are that the religious beliefs are taught to the child relating to the real world in a way that the fairy-tales are not. Thus the religious ideas endure whereas the fables fade away. A child can be taught to see God's hand behind everything they see in the natural world, and that kind of thinking is very hard to change.

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child about religious belief, but not in a "this is fact" sense. When I have children, I'll probably (assuming the wife doesn't object) tell them about what the major religions believe, and leave it up to them to make up their own mind, and make it clear that they are free to do so.

1577. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156719 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 7:30 am

DrBenway-

then how do you modify a narcissist's behaviour? Doesn't pointing it out to them simply fuel their persecution complex, and reinforce the notion that it's everyone else who is wrong?

1578. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156717 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 7:27 am

Yussel123-

perhaps there is an element of that, but I think quite often it is less about "bitter disappointment" and more about harking back to a time when things were simpler for them.

Perhaps we all have a "fairy-tale mindset" to a certain extent. But the critical difference is that we are told later on that the fairy-tales are not real, or we learn it for ourselves, or eventually the parents give up on the deception. Father Christmas is a good example here.

But this does not happen with God. So on this basis, equating the two is incorrect.

In addition, even the effect of the scariest fairy-tale cannot compare to a child being told that they will burn in Hell for eternity. is child abuse, as far as I'm concerned.

1579. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156706 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 7:06 am

Yussel123-

Your example is flawed. There's a world of difference between telling a child a fairy-tale about Goldilocks and telling a child a fairy-tale about an omnibenevolent God who watches everything you do, but will nevertheless condemn you to hell if you don't follow a set of very specific rules.

Nobody tries to make their children believe that the Three Little Pigs really existed.

1580. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156692 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 6:39 am

Yussel123-

Personally, I don't care what people believe. I start to care when they tell me I have to join them or DIE

I don't know about that. If the people saying that are members of the Immortality And Eternal Youth Association, I might be persuaded to at least hear them out.

1581. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156685 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 6:29 am

Styrer-

Damn, I hope you're wrong, having just hatched a cunning plan to call on all members on this thread to self-immolate by troll button in solidarity with Philip.

I'm onto you now. You were going to get everyone to troll themselves, except for you. Then you would rule this thread, and be able to say what you like! A cunning plan indeed.

1582. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156667 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 5:58 am

Yussel123-

Try here: contact@richarddawkins.net

1583. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156655 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 5:41 am

Yussel123-

fair enough then. And it has to be undone by the site admins. I've clicked the troll button mistakenly in the past, and when I do I drop them a quick e-mail and let them know that it was a mistake. That usually does the trick.

1584. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156653 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 5:36 am

Hey, who the hell Trolled Philip's comment? There's nothing offensive about it. Speak up, don't be shy. What's wrong with what he said?

1585. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156637 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 4:59 am

Yussel123-

If Dawkins wasn't so "in-your-face" about his atheism, perhaps people on the "other side" would give him a hearing.

Do you honestly believe that? Being quiet about atheism hasn't done much good, why should being louder about it be harmful? It brings it to the attention of the public. More importantly, it can help atheists within deeply religious families.

You call his style "In your face" but is it really? His language is positively mild compared to that of any other subject. Yet he is condemned for speaking up because somehow the idea that everyone must be polite about religion has gained strength.

And I disagree that Dawkins has instigated an either/or situation.

1586. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #156609 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 3:27 am

Brother John-

nice to see you back on the site. Hope you'll be sticking around.

1587. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156607 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 2:59 am

One ball left.

Robertson is is up to bat. He faces the steely gaze of the bowler unperturbed. The bowler runs forward..... Robertson is out for a duck! He didn't even attempt to engage with the ball, just threw himself flat. The crowd goes wild.

1588. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #156420 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 2:00 pm

It's not often that I say nice things about the UK political parties, but you would never get MPs in our country standing up and saying crap like this in public. If they did, they would probably be forced out by their own party.

In America people seem to think that you have to respect religion, and people without it are subversive, that they lack something. It's very sad.

1589. Two More Fleas

Comment #156300 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 9:26 am

The Reverend Dark-

I TOLD you not to speak his name, but you just wouldn't listen, would you? Now he has returned on the "Expelled Overview" thread.

I hope you're happy.

1590. Fleabytes

Comment #156297 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 9:18 am

MaxD-

I think it changed. But I'm not inclined to search through his posts to find out, so it's just a guess!

1591. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156262 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 7:51 am

Rod-the-farmer-

I noticed that as well, but I think it's just bad phrasing on the newspaper's part. You are right, though.

1592. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156256 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 7:44 am

RobDinsmore-

depends what their age is. If they're young enough, they'll go home and ask their parents, then their parents will cry "Offense!"

1593. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156243 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 7:10 am

Black Wolf-

but the first part of Vadjong's statement is still accurate. Telling believers that certain ideas are unchristian is an effective method of control. The problem is getting politicians to believe that opposing creationism and religious oppression (ie treatment of women in Islamic countries) is not a bad thing. Perhaps if it were made clear to them that a large number of moderates would probably support them, they might be prompted into doing something.

1594. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156236 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 6:39 am

MedMonkey-

I think consciousness raising has a lot to do with it. We're far more aware of creationist influence now than we were before.

1595. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156225 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 6:21 am

HoyaSaxa87-

apparently, Australia is supposed to be a Catholic country.

At the risk of sounding like a blind follower, I agree with what RD has said. There are a few creationists espousing their agenda in the UK, particularly a guy named Vardy, who made his money selling used cars(!) He's funded or is funding creationist "educational" ideas.

Emmanuel College is his handiwork:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/mar/17/schools.religion

1596. Two More Fleas

Comment #156219 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 6:10 am

The Reverend Dark-

do not speak the creature's name, or it will return with new inanity.

1597. Russell T Davies: Return of the (tea) Time Lord

Comment #156205 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 5:25 am

Bunnyboiler-

fortunately, no. Reportedly some guy named Julian Sands will be playing Davros.

1598. Fleabytes

Comment #156173 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 2:37 am

Philip-

since when have you been one of the quiet ones?

:-)

1599. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156161 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 1:35 am

At the risk of butting in:

Perhaps Octopus did not intend to suggest that he was sad that the guy had failed to kill himself. Perhaps he simply phrased his post poorly.

1600. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #156151 by Quetzalcoatl on April 7, 2008 at 12:54 am

Clearthinker-