Comments by Quetzalcoatl

1601. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158368 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 11:55 am

We ask for where the comments came from. ASMarques says:

You'll have to trust me. Or not. As you wish

Considering you've provided copious links in the past, it strikes me as very strange that you cannot provide a source for these quotes. Some might call it convenient. If they were cynical.

1602. Fleabytes

Comment #158339 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 11:06 am

Al-

I'm not sure if that's true. There was a gap between you chastising him and the deletion of his posts. The battle royale with Styrer happened after the event as well.

1603. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158336 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 11:03 am

Al-

reading them, it struck me that some of them could be true (the commander sniping prisoners was in Schindler's List) and some could easily be the understandable exaggerations of the traumatised. But without context and authorship, it's impossible to know.

ASMarques- this is where you step in.

1604. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158330 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 10:54 am

Everyone-

it occurs to me to wonder how many of ASMarques' contradictory witness statements came from those who were mad, delirious or traumatised by the horrors of the war or their experiences within the camps.

If this is true, it strikes me as being especially reprehensible for said statements to be used to cast doubt on the veracity of the Holocaust. Some might say contemptible.

1605. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158279 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 9:27 am

Steve Zara-

He does. It's just such a shame it's all a pile of crap. Or is that too blunt?

1606. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158274 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 9:24 am

Well, that handful of cherry-picked statements wih no context has certainly impressed me. What was I thinking? Clearly you are right, ASMarques.

Or not.

1607. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158252 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 8:59 am

Sargeist-

I take your point, and looking back at it I admit I was over-generalising. You're right.

ASMarques-

clever. And way to turn it back on me! Although it seems clear that we disagree on the definition of "mass of corroborating evidence".

1608. Rep. Davis: The Worst Person in the World

Comment #158241 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 8:50 am

A quick search of Google has turned up the following:

http://blog.kjmastaw.com/

The first post is VERY interesting.

A quote from it: "In a previous blog posting, I pointed out that evolution is not scientific fact. It's a theory and nothing more".

Guess that the question of whether HE even knows what a scientific theory is, and what it means.

1609. Rep. Davis: The Worst Person in the World

Comment #158227 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 8:34 am

Kjmastaw-

but I'd venture to guess that very few of you really understand what the scientific method is, could explain the difference between scientific fact vs. scientific theory

Can you?

Epeeist has given you a large list of people who do with certainty. There are many here who do not have a background in science (I freely admit that I am one of them). But most of those people still know a great deal about the subject.

Do you?

1610. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158220 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 8:22 am

Al-

I know. The overwhelming nature of the evidence just serves to underline the absurdity of the claim.

You've got to have a really big reason for wanting to believe that it didn't happen to claim that it did not.

1611. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158206 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 8:05 am

A massive 60 year conspiracy involving hundreds of thousands of people that has not been refuted in all that time, with a mass of corroborating evidence to support it plus eyewitness and direct testimony that has not been recanted.

Gee. Sounds really easy to organise. You'd also think that modern Germans might have something to say about this monstrous conspiracy.

1612. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158164 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 6:53 am

Epeeist-

excellent. I now have the Stonecutters' song in my head!

1613. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158154 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 6:39 am

I should probably leave this alone, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

A key passage to note:

In Heinrich Himmler's speech at the Posen Conference of October 6, 1943, Himmler, for the first time, clearly elucidated to all assembled leaders of the Reich, in frank and brutal terms, what the "Final Solution" referred to.

So much for there being no central plan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_holocaust

This contains more than, quite frankly, I reckon that most people would want to know about what went on.

1614. Fleabytes

Comment #158149 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 6:18 am

Anna-

it says very little, and I'm sad to say was exactly as I expected. You can bet this will come up in the future as well; he probably use it for ammo in one of his talks.

1615. Fleabytes

Comment #158085 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 4:01 am

Incredulous-

I noticed. And for me it is the afternoon....now.

1616. Fleabytes

Comment #158077 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 3:48 am

I'm not taking a position on this, I'm just linking to the posts when I find them.

Epeeist-

like all good Biblical prophecies, Keith's was after the fact. Richard Morgan was back on Fleabytes yesterday (comment 7532).

1617. Fleabytes

Comment #158071 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 3:41 am

Brian-

what's with the lurking? And why delete your posts?

1618. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #158052 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 3:06 am

Steve-

lack of radioactive materials and cloning vats might be another factor. But you're right, they are great!

1619. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158034 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 2:31 am

At the risk of starting an all-out conflict/depressing everyone, there has been a response:

http://www.fcosonline.org/index.php?topic=5.msg249#msg249

1620. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #158033 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 2:31 am

At the risk of starting an all-out conflict/depressing everyone, there has been a response:

http://www.fcosonline.org/index.php?topic=5.msg249#msg249

1621. Fleabytes

Comment #158030 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 2:30 am

At the risk of starting an all-out conflict/depressing everyone, there has been a response:

http://www.fcosonline.org/index.php?topic=5.msg249#msg249

1622. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158028 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 2:24 am

Irate-

we don't like to steal your thunder. I don't say fucktard much in the same way that you hardly ever proclaim yourself to be a god.

1623. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #158021 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 1:49 am

Steve-

I have some monsters for you. Check it out, fresh from Billy's Lab:-

http://musingsofastrangemind.blogspot.com/

1624. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #158013 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 1:24 am

Artful-

nice quote, but you didn't actually provide positive evidence to back up your assertion, did you?

I would also question your use of "vacuum", but let's not get off the point.

1625. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #158004 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 12:57 am

I've just read some of ASMarques' posts. My head has hit the desk hard enough to give me concussion.

1626. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #158003 by Quetzalcoatl on April 10, 2008 at 12:54 am

The rationalists among you are at the "I have a dream" stage. If your dream (unlike Martin LK's dream) were ever to translate into policy the result would be tyranny

Hmm. What an interesting assertion. Any present-day evidence of this in action? Some of the Scandinavian countries are highly secular. Given what you say, should we not see some evidence of tyrannical behaviour?

I'm sure you'll be able to provide examples to support your position.

1627. German Church admits aiding Nazis

Comment #157794 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 2:36 pm

It should not be concealed that the Catholic Church was blind for too long to the fate and suffering of men, women and children from the whole of Europe who were carted off to Germany as forced labourers

The word the Cardinal was looking for should not have been blind. It should have been complicit.

Still. A bit late, but at least they've admitted it.

1628. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #157791 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Ignore my last comment. On a serious note:

That is where the threat of atheism lies. Not so much in the absence of belief in a transcendent Deity before whom we are accountable as in what that vacuum is filled with.

If we take away accountability to God, what do we fill it with? Much better to keep it there, just in case.

Wrong. This is a solution from fear: fear of change, of the unknown; and a solution from inertia: better to stick what we know and are comfortable with.

This is not how things should be. But you raise a good question, Artful. What should the void be filled with?

The answer is plain. Replace human accountability to God with accountability to each other. To society, to shared standards of morality that do not come from any God. Teach that actions have consequences; not in the afterlife, but here and now.

1629. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #157782 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Artful_Dodger said:

That is where the threat of atheism lies. Not so much in the absence of belief in a transcendent Deity before whom we are accountable as in what that vacuum is filled with.

I suggest we fill it with reason, science and free-thinking. Either that or turnips.

1630. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #157571 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 9:23 am

Cartomancer-

[bigot on] ah, but you're forgetting something. "The Jews" control all the banks. "The Jews" control all the governments. "The Jews" control the UN. Israel is just a diversion. [/bigot off]

I honestly don't know why the Jews seem to be blamed for everything. I know there's the whole Christ-killers "rationale", but that never made much sense either.

1631. Fleabytes

Comment #157555 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 8:57 am

Mixmastergaz, Al-

"Clairpenser" was really Brian English.

1632. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #157535 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 8:35 am

al-

and the film of it, of course. Saw that in History class.

1633. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #157521 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 8:18 am

ASMarques-

Doesn't this systematic lack of focus present a problem to your skeptical mind? Why was the fog of human testimony & hearsay thought preferable to in loco forensic investigation of the criminal matter

Yes, why would they trust the testimony of the skeletal prisoners liberated from the camps? Of the soldiers who found them? And as for forensic investigation, what about the many mass graves found?

1634. Fleabytes

Comment #157480 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 6:39 am

Al-

that's probably my fault. I posted the link on several threads to make sure people saw it.

1635. Fleabytes

Comment #157473 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 6:22 am

Cartomancer-

but I suspect some unscrupulous FCOS boggart might be trying to take advantage of this little disagreement for his own ends

Perhaps, but surely Richard Morgan would have said so if that were the case? He has just posted.

1636. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157405 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 4:03 am

Styrer-

I agree with Steve. If consensus can be reached via PM discussion, then the results of that could be posted here. If, however, consensus could NOT be reached, a statement to that effect could also be posted here.

I appreciate that this has invoked strong sentiments on both sides. But at the moment the discussion has essentially degenerated into a slanging match. Perhaps PM might be the way to go to achieve resolution.

1637. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #157353 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 1:12 am

Paula-

it's a sign of respect. He's so afraid of angering you that he want's to make sure he gets your title correct :-)

1638. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #157346 by Quetzalcoatl on April 9, 2008 at 12:58 am

Dr Benway-

I must admit, the thought crossed my mind. We will have to wait and see.

1639. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157116 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 3:00 pm

Yussel123-

Why can't God direct an average doctor to say you?

Why can't God direct a BIN MAN to save you? Now that would be faith.

1640. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157111 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 2:58 pm

A good question to religious people like that is: "So just what is it that makes science so reliable that you will literally entrust your lives to it EXCEPT when it conflicts with your faith? What prompts this sudden loss of confidence?"

Watch them struggle for an answer.

Styrer-

no offence, but it really is time to let this "debate" end.

1641. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #157087 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 2:46 pm

Don't have time to watch this all now, damn it! From skimming it, it sounds fascinating.

Completely off topic- Paula, you sound nothing like I expected you to!

1642. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #157032 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 1:52 pm

I'm starting to wish I'd never put the damn link up to begin with.

1643. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156996 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Styrer-

I don't like the way this is going. The comments Al posted were only a sample of what was said. Richard did make sexist comments. I saw them. I saw Al's responses calling him on it. Others responded as well, and I'm sure when they're online they'll vouch to that.

There's no need for insults on this. While the comments might have been taken as jokes individually, they were persistent.

1644. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156963 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Styrer-

I'll corroborate what Al-Rawandi said. I read several comments Richard Morgan made towards Annabanana that were very inappropriate, and Al and others called him on it. Anna picked up on it too as I recall, but she doesn't need to be brought into this.

Peacebeuponme-

who say atheists have no joy? Me say me find funny too!

1645. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156956 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 12:35 pm

Peacebeuponme-

Yussel123 press troll button accidentally. Philip comment go troll. Yussel123 say sorry. All say ok. Philip laugh.

1646. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156868 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 10:50 am

Prankster-

Calling me Quetz is perfectly fine.

Phil Rimmer-

I'll be keeping an eye out for Robertson's response. Should be interesting reading.

Speaking of interesting reading, I liked your comment on Steve Zara's blog.

1647. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156867 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 10:45 am

Re RM's post-

I joylessly predict that it will be used as ammunition at some point when Clearthinker pays us another visit: "One of your own says that atheism is joyless and empty!!!"

I'm going to go take some Paracetamol, as I've used up my stash of Valium.

1648. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #156809 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 9:31 am

Everyone-

I just found this VERY interesting post on the "Dawkins Letters" thread of FCOS. I suggest everyone gives it a read:

http://www.fcosonline.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=79bce46b434b28dc7336ebb5c9952d17&topic=5.msg246#msg246

1649. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #156807 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 9:27 am

1650. Richard Dawkins: 'Growth in creationist beliefs a problem for schools'

Comment #156806 by Quetzalcoatl on April 8, 2008 at 9:25 am

Everyone-

I just found this VERY interesting post on the "Dawkins Letters" thread of FCOS. I suggest that everyone gives it a read:

http://www.fcosonline.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=79bce46b434b28dc7336ebb5c9952d17&topic=5.msg246#msg246