Comments by Goldy

Comment #199578 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 3:03 am

Opal fruits..... is that a gay australian?

"Opal Fruits, made to make your mouth water!"
You decide ;-)

1652. An Interview with Prof. Richard Dawkins

Comment #199572 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:32 am

Did not see this when I happily chanced upon this site over 2 years ago----why so often and usual recently?

Well, you know, banks and other lending establishments realised that giving money to people who really couldn't pay back was kinda stupid, so mortgages went up, which had a knock on effect when speculators decided that maybe banking money (hahahahah) on broke people was a bad idea so decided to turn to oil insted, raising the price to way above what it really is worth, leading to people thinking making food into fuel was a great idea and driving the price of necessities up, bringing with it the price of other food, like dairy....ah, fuck it, you get the picture.
Lighten up. There is an amazing amount of drivel - I know, I contribute to it. But sometimes it's hard. Look at txtpiper on one of the threads - no arguing with him. We face, here, militantly ignorant people. Seriously militant in maintaining their stupidity (and I can say that as they just don't read) that drives some of us to despair. Steve Zara left for a spell, others of the frequent contributers have not been as vocal as they used to be, one has even become a Christian (again...for how long, we wonder).
Just go with the flow. I try, when I can, to give reasoned arguments...but sometimes I feel like Sisyphus and I am sure others do to.
Please don't be pissy with your condemnation - try and let us know in a light hearted fashion and we'll love all the more for it.
Accept my apologies for apparently making your Dicky D experience a bit off.
Mike

1653. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199569 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:16 am

Please can you wish them a fun and tea fuelled life together from me!

Allow me to add the spirit of choice for said tea :-)
Apologies, Philip! :-D
Right, best get me back to painting!

1654. Fossil of most primitive 4-legged creature found

Comment #199568 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:14 am

Mord1 - I feel for you. If it is any consolation. Probably not, but in New Zealand, there is one person that really really feels for you. Seriously.

1655. Fossil of most primitive 4-legged creature found

Comment #199566 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:12 am

Phil

and still broke the crank in 3 places.

Could you fix it?

8teist

Hahahahaa

No it was fucked

This was so funny I think I snotted gin through me nose!
Marcus

Why is it particularly surprising that it seems "out of sequence" in terms of how advanced it is?

I was wondering that too. Given the comments about whether it was pentadactyl or not.... Ah, well, maybe a hook for the cretinists...

1656. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199562 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:05 am

Although the roles are heroic and flashy, and musically a tour de force, if you are not into the genre, they will seem very very sissy.

Well, I'm sure they'll be fine and dandy :-)
(better add this, just in case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy)

1657. God hates Mars

Comment #199560 by Goldy on June 26, 2008 at 2:01 am

By reading the comments, I can see when the IDiot said

Mars is a desert planet and...

he actually meant

Mars is a dessert planet and...

1658. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199527 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 10:40 pm

The real reason for polygamy
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/men-like-casual-sex-more-than-women-ndash-scientific-fact-854323.html
Not sure how that explains the dislike of same sex marriage by polygamous men...one would have thought they'd positively encourage it!

1659. An Interview with Prof. Richard Dawkins

Comment #199526 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 10:31 pm

"if you want to chop down a tree it takes a bunch of small, precise knicks, not one fell swing"

Could do but when they cleared the bush where my house is built they used a bulldozer.
Don't mind me, only throwing oil on the fire ;-)

1660. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #199521 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 10:06 pm

That Garth has his head so far up his arse he's staring out of his mouth (I know, biologically impossible..)
He never pauses to think what religion might be doing - hell, it seems that some of those murderers who killed that Sikh liquor store owner were actually church going Christians. I know they were taught religion. He thinks religious extremism is the saviour of society without even pausing to think that maybe the malaise is not going to be sorted by the church (who fancy the souls they can save) but by working out what is wrong with some people. God isn't going to help anyone - people are, and they aren['t going to get anywhere using God to help them help others.
A fuckwit. He always was, by the sound of it. I'm swapping to the Dominion Post now...

1661. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199518 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:59 pm

Used the search function in Arab News ("Man marries" in the search box). Some cracking ones there!

1662. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199516 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:55 pm

KEYSAR TRAD: I certainly would not have entertained the thought of having a relationship without a religious marriage. Rather than entertain any thoughts of an affair, I thought the only decent thing to do was consider a proper commitment to that person.

ALISON CALDWELL: Hanefa Trad was asked if it was just about men wanting sex with more women.

HANEFA TRAD: Yes, it can be. But having it in the right way but doesn't happen it in like go to prostitute or just date and just go for a woman for one night and leave her.

Now this is champion! Can't make them sound more....stupid if I tried!

1663. Mormons urged to back ban on same-sex marriage

Comment #199513 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:48 pm

Senior leaders of the Islamic Community in Sydney are calling on the Australian Government to recognise polygamous marriage in order to protect the rights of women

Stunned ????????????????????????? from me!
EDIT
OK, allow polygamy. But also allow polyandry - and if the wife of a Muslim wants another man, he has to take it and love it :-) Or, indeed, if the wife wants another wife for herself :-D
I do love Muslim clerics - they just don't get this democracy stuff, eh? Demand, demand, demand without any thought for the consequences. We should encourage them more - they could back themselves into a corner and really fuck themselves :-). I have to laugh - all this pandering to them...and they just can't see the backlash coming their way!

1664. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #199511 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:40 pm

8teist - you mean this?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10518356
He annoys me. So does that Tipa Masu. And Chris Rattue. Whole damn paper annoys me :-)

1665. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #199504 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 9:23 pm

He can start with the resurrection - and he mustn't use this thread as an example ;-)

1666. God hates Mars

Comment #199457 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 7:37 pm

So what happened to marathon bars? I've never had one.

See? Just as the Abrahamic religion has subsumed all the old European religions and left us with some half forgotten snippets of the old days, the Snickerites assume the Marathon bar has always been called Snickers.
You have had a Marathon Bar TB - for some reason, unknown to us Brits, Johhny Foreigner could not pronounce "Marathon" so we had to change over to Snickers. I have never allowed my mind to forget the True Name!

1667. God hates Mars

Comment #199440 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 7:06 pm

Snickers? Pah! Marathon bars they were and Marathon bars they shall remain!
Deep fried Mars Bars, invented, apparently, in Stonehaven. Actually, the chippy there would deep fry anything - pies, pizza, you name it.
"Snickers"....aaah, how the young are easily misled! How whitewash is applied to history!

1668. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199402 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 5:37 pm

Fanusi - maybe it's already too late...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2192715/Blonde,-white-schoolboy-is-al-Qaandrsquoeda-extremist,-say-police.html

1669. Where do US lawmakers stand on science?

Comment #199397 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 5:23 pm

My old was an engineer (petroleum) and an atheist. I work in the the medical school of Auckland Uni - about half of the scientists are very religious (one PhD was actually a Bible literalist...).
Maybe in my case, acs, it's something to do with being in the southern hemisphere...you know, like the Coriolis effect or something ;-)

1670. The Flea Delusion

Comment #199394 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 5:13 pm

Regarding RM - I still feel for him. After all, he cannot be of sound mind if he needs, as opposed to just wants, a religion to help him through. People like that need help and I am willing to give my time (within reason) to help. Only thing that troubles them is the need for a god.
"We can love Him, because He first loved us."
A cry for help. Read it - can't you see how pathetic it sounds? (Of course, hard to love something that doesn't think twice about wiping us all out by flooding...and send us to hell if we don't love it "Love me or else!" - but that's my personal opinion). He needs a love. Here's a hint (read his blog entry)

So there I was.

Alone again.

1671. Science is not philosophy

Comment #199353 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:56 pm

Goldy, stop touting your course. If you haven't got enough students, then maybe, just maybe it's because your course is intellenciontalylly challenged. :D

Ain't true! It's the funding, innit! All going to forensic science cos that's on telly and it's farking ace!

1672. Science is not philosophy

Comment #199345 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:46 pm

And the way the guru's are fawned on by some people is somewhat sickening too.

Hmm, gurus eh? I keep telling the students I work with I am a guru. Not sure if I qualify here.
May I ask a personal question - are you a student? Young? (OK, that's 2 questions...)

1673. Science is not philosophy

Comment #199340 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:41 pm

"philosophy" = "just finkin', innit?"

Nah, mate. Jus' sam farking old git finkin intellectionally and sayin it wiv farked up words.

1674. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199337 by Goldy on June 25, 2008 at 2:36 pm

On marriage - I got married becasue my wife told me to. Chinese don't see unmarried couples in the same light as we westerners do. Turned out to be quite good, mind - if we hadn't married, my children would not have got a British passport.
Parenting - so many different forms of parenting, not that many (relatively speaking) fucked up children. Stop being swayed by the media. And gay couples can bring up children - it won't fuck them up. After all, all gays I know are a product of the traditional family...
Moslem/Muslim - Moslem to my ears (and eyes) appears old fashioned. But I don't think it matters. Check out how many different ways Gadafi is spelled (and my way is yet another :-))
HitbLade - if you must, but within the next week - wife comes back then. And did we have a wee accident with out name? A bit late on the capitalisation, methinks.
bnow, back to hating Mu(o)slims...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7469180.stm

"I am so sick and tired of hearing nationalists talk of killing Muslims, of blowing up mosques, of fighting back, only to see these acts of resistance fail to appear."

I'm waiting for this line to appear in these threads one day ;-) (joke - but with a serious undercurrent. Sometimes I feel this sentiment is heartfelt in some of the comments I read)

1675. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198978 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 11:49 pm

Goldy, I must agree with you in regards to #234

I'm sorry for bringing it up - just a small peeve of mine and irrelevant here except to try and make a point. Maybe the rugby had something to do with it to... ;-) Can never read the Herald's sport pages for about a month after any game against England!

1676. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198977 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 11:44 pm

It was obviously a completely different mindset back then

Indeed it was. I think the same probably carried on in Europe at the same time.
However, what happened then has no bearing on what happens now. These people that say Mo has an absolute hold on morality and use his example on how to live today are screwed in the head - I am pretty sure Mo would not have done now what he did then.
I am reminded of a story in the NYT about falafel sellers in Baghdad being targetted - apparently falafel was not around in Mo's time so was un-Islamic. One falafel seller did try and point out that AK47s were not around during Mo's time either, but that didn't seem relevant to the militias...

1677. Science is not philosophy

Comment #198976 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 11:35 pm

I can't imagine what a Ph.D. in business has to do with "philosophy" except in the very broad sense that tera explained.

Tried to explain in Comment #198953. Makes sense to me...but then, I wrote it, so it would :-D

1678. Science is not philosophy

Comment #198953 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 9:10 pm

I got the same, so I looked it up. That's how I heard of Natural Philosophy. And then someone told me that one had to research something no one else has done - going out into uncharted waters as it were. One has a hypothesis - an argument, if you will - which one has to defend. To defend, you need data and information, which is why one does the research. But in the end, it is your hypothesis which is the subject of your PhD - you are defending your philosophical "musings" on a particular subject, with evidence to back up your arguments from your research.

1679. Science is not philosophy

Comment #198949 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:39 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy
Reagerding science and philosophy - all in the definition :-) By the way, ever wonder what the Ph part of a PhD stood for? Or the Phil part of MPhil (I have one of those...in biological sciences)?
Mordacious1, I feel for you. Bad enough having teeth pulled, even worse when having your child have to go through that pain. It is hard enough to comfort a toddler - having an autistic child as you describe must be very very hard.

Edit - ID is not a science, nor a philosophy. It is a religion.

1680. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198947 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:28 pm

People who get massive payments can't be living in poverty. Poverty implies having no money.

Depends which people get the money. A holocaust survivor is not necessarily the receiver of funds if said funds get handed to a government authority for distribution. I have found that governments have a habit of sometimes diverting money from the recipients it was paid for to other projects...

1681. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198945 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:25 pm

http://www.codoh.com/zionweb/zizad/zizad26.html

As a precaution, Stern sent Naftali Lubentschik to Beirut, which was still controlled by Vichy, negotiate directly with the Axis. Nothing is known of his dealings with either Vichy or the Italians, but in January 1941 Lubentschik met two Germans --Rudolf Rosen and Otto von Hentig, the philo-Zionist, who was then head of the Oriental Department of the German Foreign Office. After the war a copy of the Stern proposal for an alliance between his movement and the Third Reich was discovered in the files of the German Embassy in Turkey.

There's more - I'll let you read it. Of course, it is just something from the old interweb - no idea how the truth has been twisted to fit any political agenda...

Edit - one doesn't even have to look hard to find Jewish Wehrmacht soldiers...
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/020705/army.shtml

1682. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198944 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 8:20 pm

Contrast that with what the British colonizers did to the indigenous cultures in Australia and New Zealand in the 19th century -- kidnapping Aboriginal children to be brought up white, beating Maori school pupils for speaking their own home language. That's what I would understand by the term "cultural imperialism".

While I don't deny the occurences stated here, I do want to ask...how many generations have to pass before the crappy things get attributed to the colonial masters and the good stuff to the now separate colonists.
I say this because I am always told it was the British that did all the cultural genocides etc but it's never the British when talking about stuff like the Anzacs at gallipoli (oh, except when it comes to bad leadership - obviously Australia, NZ, SA etc never had anyone in a leadership capacity).
I do believe some of the excesses of cultural "assimilation" occured in the 20th century...by white Australians and white New Zealanders.
Sorry, just a bit of a peeve of mine as a Pom in Aotearoa.

1683. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198903 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 5:13 pm

From the Auckland Uni website
http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/about/news/articles/2005/11/evolution_puberty.cfm
Extracts...

They found that Paleolithic girls arrived at menarche at a similar age to modern girls - 7 to 13 years - suggesting that this is the evolutionarily determined age of puberty in girls.

"This would have matched the degree of psychosocial maturation necessary to function as an adult in Paleolithic society based on small groups of hunter-gatherers," they write.

But now there is a mismatch, because society has become vastly more complex, so becoming psychosocially mature therefore takes longer.

"For the first time in our 200,000 year history as a species we become sexually mature before becoming psychologically equipped to function as adults in society," says Professor Gluckman.

"All our social systems work on the presumption that the two types of maturity coincide. But this is no longer the case and never will be again because we cannot change biological reality. We have to work out a new set of structures - schooling, for example - to deal with this reality."

So, "What would Mo do?" is not really going to cut it as a bumper sticker, becasue Mo don't live today. What would Mo have done had he lived today be probably closer to the mark.

Edit -
http://www.liggins.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/liggins/events/2006/09/lectures/evolution-adolescent-brain.cfm

Dr Bagshaw will report that our current attitudes about young people extend back at least as far as classical Roman and Greek times.

Now, I am making a supposition here, but pre-Islamic Arabs would have known what Greek and Roman thought was - especially if they were traders...

1684. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198880 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 3:41 pm

Tera You have been posting non stop for a couple of days now. Enough to tire anyone out. Why not take a day's break and come back to things later?

Corylus, you know that's going to be hard! It's a drug - the arguments, the knowledge, the sheer liberation and the ability to argue points with people who militantly cherish their ignorance, the way you can use your brain to think of arguments! It's like mental chess, you can release all your pent-up cleverness and no longer have to think at the lowest common denomination in order to talk to someone.
After a few days the exhilaration wears off and then you can get back to normal life. Until the itch starts again...eh, Dr Zara?
TB will go soon...but let the novelty wear off first..

1685. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198864 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 3:17 pm

With regards to feminism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtaran_Bibi
She shows what can be done and has earned my deepest respect.

1686. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198861 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 3:15 pm

Having an Austrian mother, I'll have mine with mayonnaise, a la continental style :-)
Just how dis this get to feminism? I have to say I did find TeraBrat, on another thread, a bit emotional. Something to do with us being nasty to animals. I could see the point but it seemed, well, a bit girly (sorry!). Now I read that bad language might drive some back to religion. ?????????? And then we get to feminism, defense of women, fucktards, battered women, battered women with condiments and a side of fries.
And still people complain... ;-)

1687. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198855 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 3:11 pm

Pretty good, but they need Tapatio, otherwise they are just bland....

Could probably do with a side of kumara chips...

1688. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #198824 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 2:24 pm

You people really aren't any different from fundamentalists. You are as mysoginistic as the most devout Muslim

Small hand raises in the back row..."I'm not" says a shy voice...
:-)
Damn, why do you all save the good stuff for when I'm all tucked up in bed?

1689. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #198821 by Goldy on June 24, 2008 at 2:19 pm

It appears to be a relatively recent development in Sunni theology - mirroring the development of Mutta marriage in Shia Islam. Name escapes me at present - if you wish to find out, I'd suggest asking on faithfreedom.org/forum

Reading the correspondance, misyar marriages appear to have a slightly unsavoury reputation. Mind you, so does prostitution and that's still going strong...
http://www.arabnews.com/search/search.asp

1690. Should We Rid The Mind of God? A Debate

Comment #198422 by Goldy on June 23, 2008 at 9:42 pm

I'm not saying McGrath is right, but, a lot of people are won over by charisma.

Maybe, but then they'll read his book, or another fleabook, then maybe they'll stop to think ;-)
As it is, if you really believe, you'll never be swayed by anything. If you are wavering then it's either the "dark side" or another religion - my money's on another religion...probably Buddhism ;-). If you don't believe, then whatever McG's charisma, he is wrong and you know it.
Right, off home now. Must pick up fuel for fire - sodding cold today!

1691. Sarcasm Seen as Evolutionary Survival Skill

Comment #198417 by Goldy on June 23, 2008 at 8:36 pm

Comment #198407 by Cartomancer
Oh dear - tears are rolling down my face! People look at me and slowly move away...

Edit -

Working out what the hell other gay people were talking about must have been a nightmare though...

http://www2.prestel.co.uk/cello/Polari.htm
I had to look it up!

1692. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198410 by Goldy on June 23, 2008 at 7:53 pm

Further along the north African coastline...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/world/africa/23algeria.html?ref=world
Why sometimes it's not the people's fault they are as they are...

1693. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198400 by Goldy on June 23, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Despite the report, the holiday season at the Taba/Sharm El Sheikh/Alexandria is as busy as ever. Great coral treasures at the red sea for those who are interested.

I have to say I really enjoyed my holiday there. Of course, after the Luxor massacre security was damn tight. I think Cairo is one of the nicest cities I have been to - don't know why but it felt really good there. Friendly people too.
As for the heeadbanging mark - it that any worse than walking around with a Bible, as I believe the Bush administration does...?

1694. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #198348 by Goldy on June 23, 2008 at 3:43 pm

I'm wondering how many times I've been trolled for worthless comments now ;-)

1695. 'I despise Islamism': Ian McEwan faces backlash over press interview

Comment #198339 by Goldy on June 23, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Meanwhile, in Egypt...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7469221.stm

1696. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #197972 by Goldy on June 23, 2008 at 2:42 am

I was trying to talk about the context in which accumulated information finally allows us to "transcend" (there's that pesky word again) undirected selection.

Hmmm. If selection made us the abstract and logical thinking machines that we are, would the "directed" selection merely be a continuation of the "undirected" selection? We think we are directing it, but in fact we are just following what selection has conditioned us to think?
Getting out of my area of comfort now :-)
Jethro, the same Genesis that has God making men and women on the 6th day? Forgetting to make it rain? Making Adam after the 7th day and Eve some time way after that and confusing forever those of us who were told Adam and Eve were the first people? I have read through Genesis - a more blatant cut and paste job is hard to fathom. What is even harder for me to fathom is how it endured...

1697. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #197921 by Goldy on June 22, 2008 at 10:48 pm

What I'm interested in is, what's the reason why our particular type of agency---a rather complicated form, no doubt---makes our deliberate intervention in our genome a different type of selection from all the others that fit so nicely into being "natural"?

That I am not sure of. I think it is natural. We know what we want - why? Because it has been imprinted into us, as it were, by our evolution. By carrying on the same theme "outside" natural selection doesnt make sense to me as natural selection got us here - we're not transcending anything but carrying on the same journey, as it were.
We evolved into thinking things naturally. That the thinking makes us try to direct the evolution is part of our evolution. That by natural selection we got this far shows it is a good strategy and we carry on the same because we select for it ourselves following our instincts (hmm, is that the right word - hopefully you know what I mean. Nothing to do with aliens...).
Hominids have already selected smaller brains - H. neanderthalis had bigger brains, apparently. And then there's the Flores hobbits to consider (though that seems to have really gone into all sorts of directions now!).

1698. Atheism's Wrong Turn

Comment #197916 by Goldy on June 22, 2008 at 10:35 pm

Written language, I believe, originated with clerics to record taxes and revenue, expanding to tracking production, crops and trade, then general government bureaucracy (with bureaucrats recruited from the clergy as only they were literate much of the time).

Are you sure about the role of clergy here? Sounds very Eurocentric and Dark Ages to me. Roman grafitti suggests otherwise...and reading one the origins of writing as we have it in the west, cuneiform usage suggests not so much clergy as accountants being the main users.

1699. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #197908 by Goldy on June 22, 2008 at 9:53 pm

Well, now I feel like a naughty child. But you're right LL1 - I'll stop.

1700. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #197900 by Goldy on June 22, 2008 at 9:22 pm

Maybe I need your help to solve Roswell.

Ok...but first you help me extract hydroxychloroquine from tablets!
I done plenty of speculating on this one and I'm still getting really poor yields.
Don't you ever let your mind go on a flight of fancy? And the aliens was completely irrele...ah, forget it. Yes, they were central to my argument! You win! Beers on you!