151. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159906 by Enlightenme.. on April 13, 2008 at 11:35 am

Quetz,
I don't think your polite request is gonna get through the reason sieve.

152. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159682 by Enlightenme.. on April 12, 2008 at 8:00 pm

^ Professes to believe.
There's always that possibility.

153. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159680 by Enlightenme.. on April 12, 2008 at 7:51 pm

On the subject of IQ & stupidity, I say Forrest Gump's mom had it about right - stupid is as stupid does. (Can be a verb independent of intelligence)
In the case of Collins it's clear he has to be pretty clever, and I suspect he is in the class of people who think it necessary - perhaps for the 'good of the species' - that there is absolute moral law. The arrogance that believes your fellow man cannot be trusted probably comes from the same place that makes a majority of us feel we are 'above the average'.

154. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159334 by Enlightenme.. on April 12, 2008 at 1:27 am

^ it's not 'believing in' 3 frozen waterfalls - I've never read the direct account, but my impression is he was virtually all the way to conviction already when he stumbled upon these 'triune' waterfalls and it somehow enraptured him.

155. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher

Comment #159327 by Enlightenme.. on April 12, 2008 at 12:59 am

"People are not stupid because they believe in talking snakes."

If that is understood as a metaphor for 'the devil on [eve's] shoulder', then I suppose I can somehow relate to that.

Otherwise, I cannot concieve of a compartment secure enough to contain that much stupid...
there is no compartment in my mind that can hold that concept!

I have done a quick search around to find this Bill Maher interview of Collins, can somebody post a link? - after doing a quick scan of the God vs Science article in Time magazine Collins really doesn't seem to be from the batshit crazy end of the spectrum.
But still, his Paleys watch/frozen waterfall thing is still 'far out'.

156. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #157611 by Enlightenme.. on April 9, 2008 at 10:38 am

Doesn't seem to work :(

157. The Atheist Next Door

Comment #156900 by Enlightenme.. on April 8, 2008 at 11:28 am

They found this family in America where ALL FOUR of them are rational human beings ?? This is some real weird shit.

"they suggest atheists have become more outspoken"
I think he said 'Lashing out'!

158. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #156585 by Enlightenme.. on April 8, 2008 at 1:09 am

Teratornis,
Just seen your response to my later post, I'll need time to get back to you on it, did you have a response to my (Bjorn Lomborg-based) claim that Peak oil itself is an alarmist fallacy, with us having about 5,000 years worth of shale oil to exploit, if necessary, after we exhaust tar sands. [post #248]

159. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #156584 by Enlightenme.. on April 8, 2008 at 1:00 am

Kaiserkriss:
"Since the Romans kept quite extensive records, and little if any evidence can be found without wishful interpretation of the actual existence of a Jesus, the historical record would seem to support his non-existence.

I would suggest which ever way the story plays out, our friendly believers will once again just change the goal posts to suit their argument, just as they do with new scientific evidence.

So on an aside, if the earth is only 6000 years old as our YE friends claim, how do they explain the size of the universe, when it can be clearly demonstrated that the speed of light is approximately 300000 km/sec, and that gazillions of stars are farther away than 6000 light years? jcw"


I wonder how many people saw Richard's appearance as special guest on last Sunday's 'The big questions' (BBC1).
I find myself a little puzzled by the way Richard discusses Jesus, ie he doesn't begin by questioning his existance at all, but rather treats Jesus as if he did exist, but obviously didn't rise from the dead etc etc.

On the speed of light - obviously what we would have to say here is that the great knob-twiddler, when setting up the fine tuning, does not set all of them as constants, but sets lightspeed as something that changes over.. erm, time, yes..that would be it.

160. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #156392 by Enlightenme.. on April 7, 2008 at 12:52 pm

That audio's good (thanks room 101)

You can just hear the point where her endorphins kick in giving her that righteous indignation high.

161. Biologists Take Evolution Beyond Darwin Way Beyond

Comment #156087 by Enlightenme.. on April 6, 2008 at 4:51 pm

Was gonna put a list similar to yours Vadjong, starting with our favourite Galileo, plus Dirac & Mendel.

"Darwin did not make such a dramatic leap"
...??

162. Biologists Take Evolution Beyond Darwin Way Beyond

Comment #156028 by Enlightenme.. on April 6, 2008 at 2:18 pm

"Science does not move from one earth-shattering discovery to the next in sudden dramatic leaps"

Darwin?

(No comment on the article)

163. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155871 by Enlightenme.. on April 6, 2008 at 7:39 am

"We are likely to be as different from them as Australopithecus is to us"

I think, apart from augmentation & other sc-fi stuff, there's a fair chance we could remain essentially the same, due to our adapting environments to suit us rather than all other species being adapted by environment.

164. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155869 by Enlightenme.. on April 6, 2008 at 7:25 am

Quetz:
"I was also thinking of a novel by Stephen Baxter: Evolution"

Yay! ,I got that the other day off ebay, the furry-covered Gollancz copy for £3.25
It's my furry of evolution book.
Am I going to enjoy it overall? (I've been told it get's a bit bogged-down in parts)

Also on e-bay currently (multiple copies) Growing up in the universe 2-dvd for £2.50 & free postage.

165. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155842 by Enlightenme.. on April 6, 2008 at 4:20 am

^ Entropy - there's no getting away from it!

166. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155834 by Enlightenme.. on April 6, 2008 at 3:27 am

Comment #155806 by mmurray on April 5, 2008 at 11:06 pm

However I personally am in favour of us gradually switching over to Nuclear and Wind. (Cleaner)


Remind me when it was we solved the long term nuclear waste storage problem?

Michael

167. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155792 by Enlightenme.. on April 5, 2008 at 9:04 pm

Teratornis,
Shale oil - enough known reserves to last 5,000 years at current energy consumption rates, Eroei approx 3:1, general consensus is it will eventually be worth investing in it's exploitation methods at >$150 per barrel. But we have tar sands to use first.
Prolly won't need to go there anyway once J, Craig Venter sorts us some Hydrocarbon-shitting microbes.

However I personally am in favour of us gradually switching over to Nuclear and Wind. (Cleaner)

The Stone Age did not end for want of stone, The Iron Age did net end for lack of iron.

Recommended reading: The Sceptical Environmentalist, Bjorn Lomborg. - It should be a compulsory part of the curriculum, but it's unlikely to get through the Liberal elites' reason sieve.

168. Beware the Believers

Comment #155666 by Enlightenme.. on April 5, 2008 at 7:18 am

"If you, like me, would rather discuss something other than Kardashovel, then why do people keep making this about me?"

Can you see how post 718 isn't about you, specifically?
It is about 'the rest of us' (what chance...)
And partly specifically about Cartomancer.

169. Beware the Believers

Comment #155660 by Enlightenme.. on April 5, 2008 at 7:09 am

Comment #155646 by Quetzalcoatl on April 5, 2008 at 6:25 am

Kardashovel said-


I don't claim knowledge of when a human individual develops from an embryo


Yet he has also said that it immoral to have an abortion from the moment of conception, which implies that he thinks the human individual is there from the beginning.

170. Beware the Believers

Comment #155654 by Enlightenme.. on April 5, 2008 at 6:43 am

Cartomancer:
"I apologise for my sloppy presentational skill"

I, along with many others here, greatly admire your skills, Cartomancer, and was actually hunting around myself trying to find where the misunderstanding arose.

When coming up against the (artful-dodging) likes of a Karda, or Vox, with their finely-honed abilities to twist & turn and then become jello, with the intent, it sometimes appears, simply to bait for quotemining purposes, or find moments of error from e.g. the limits of non-face to face and non-linear interaction in cyberspace.
What hope is there for the rest of us?

171. Beware the Believers

Comment #155636 by Enlightenme.. on April 5, 2008 at 5:56 am

Review:
Kardashovel:
"I don't claim knowledge of when a human individual develops from an embryo"

However, you have remained consistent in your assertion that the termination of a conceptus is to kill it.

Can you not see the contradiction?

172. Beware the Believers

Comment #155595 by Enlightenme.. on April 5, 2008 at 3:18 am

Comment #155570 by Arcane Viper on April 4,

"I know this is off topic, but does anyone think Moby is wearing a flying spaghetti monster tshirt in this video below? I know he has a cross on the back of his neck, but I'm curious if his shirt is what it looks like. The tshirt is shown at 2:00 minutes into the video. I'm really curious."

I'd say it's Original drawing,navy.

http://www.cafepress.com/venganza/

173. Beware the Believers

Comment #155542 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 5:44 pm

^ Did you see my post 652?
"I think it defies legislation."
But that would lead to people terminating a life at 35 weeks.

"If they did decide to abort, I can only hope that they would not tarry because the more the fetus develops, the more brutal the consequence."

We can at least agree on that :)

174. Beware the Believers

Comment #155520 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 4:36 pm

[Q:] What if neither of the couple want kids at all?

Kardashovel:

"..Hysterectomy is more invasive, but 100% effective. If people are sure that they do not want to have children, this is a much better option from an ethical perspective."

Horrified, totally..
Why on earth should a couple be forced to commit an irreversible procedure - the relationship may break down, and, ie a young woman with no children in a relationship with a man with three kids may miss the option to change her mind later.

That's just one of a myriad of circumstances where this could lead to an entirely unnecessary, miserable outcome.

175. Beware the Believers

Comment #155515 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 4:10 pm

Phil:
"...we'd be Vulcan.
(No offense Enlightenme..)"

My Human half remains offended ;)

Karda: "I did manage to offend Steve, tho"
Hello..oh?

176. Beware the Believers

Comment #155489 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 2:51 pm

"Damn society for getting so bloody tolerant all of a sudden!"

When I were a lad we were brought up in't 'ole in't road.

You two can come back with me in a time machine to when I was a raving homophobe in the air force in my 20's.

(mind you - it didn't help being aroused from alcoholic befuddlement at three in the morning in a gliding club bar with a mates tongue in my ear)

177. Beware the Believers

Comment #155454 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 2:02 pm

568. Comment #155149 by Kardashovel on April 4,

"Just so I'm clear when I come back, it seems that Cartomancer and possibly Quetzalcoatl are asserting that it is not immoral to kill a "conceptus"...
I am curious when they believe it becomes immoral to kill a fetus, if at all."
(Me too - asserting that it is not immoral to *abort* an early-stage embryo)


And there you go again, please do not be so disigenuous as to pretend that is not the implication once again, by the equivocation of the words Kill/Murder, in this context. [Your invention]
God knows I don't normally like playing the 'offended' card, and it takes some doing (to offend me)
But your continuous and clearly implied SUBJECTIVE assertion that I am an apologist for murder really get's my goat - It's libellous (Or slanderous, or something)

This, as far as I am concerned is the absolute heart of the matter as to why Man-made law must remain Supercedary to what you earlier stated you would like to see - Your [man-made] objective standards based on interpretations of texts written 2,000 years ago.

And - how can you hold to this position, and still state that you support RvW?
Is there not a clear destiny pre-scribed for such Hypocrisy?

As to the second question - for me that is actually difficult to answer, my knowledge of the science of embyology is weak, it runs along the same lines as Cartomancer's, and the Law in Britain currently points towards the consensus of medical opinion arriving at this distinction between abortion, or a life being terminated, to be in the order of 22-28 weeks or so, I believe.

178. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155353 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 11:33 am

"..If he does not, not all that much is lost by believing in Him."

Oh for f**ksake, 21 posts in I give up - has he got a bet on with his mate to see how long it takes for someone to mention [ SI derived unit for pressure ], or the multibillions of manyears lost to it.

179. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155348 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 11:20 am

"I would imagine many here would jump on any inaccuracy he made pretty damn quick"

Understatement - the vast majority I'd say would relish the thought of being first to post - kudos 4 1.

180. Protests no concern for outspoken atheist

Comment #155030 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 4:56 am

RobDinsmore - Apologist for apologists

Sorry! ;)

181. Protests no concern for outspoken atheist

Comment #155024 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 4:49 am

"I hope this fairly full description doesn't spoil the video when it's available - but it'll always be more fun to watch it for yourselves than to read about it anyway."

Agreed.
Paula, I don't want to stifle, please don't be tempted to tell us any further whodunnitt - I'm looking forward to when the film comes out!

182. Protests no concern for outspoken atheist

Comment #155018 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 4:35 am

Treyreynols86,
Quite right - even a Deist who clings to a belief in the great knob-twiddler is still a creationist.

183. Beware the Believers

Comment #155000 by Enlightenme.. on April 4, 2008 at 4:07 am

Kardashovel:
"Now you may think that it is no big deal to deliberately kill a "day old" embryo, much less a second-trimester fetus. I don't share that view. I think abortion is immoral"

How do you make that call?
Why would it be wrong to abort a male embryo before 40 days or a female embryo before 80 days.

From what basis do you assert the word 'Kill' in the case of a 24-hour embryo?

184. BBC 'too scared to allow jokes about Islam'

Comment #154475 by Enlightenme.. on April 3, 2008 at 10:33 am

Three comedians, a muslim, a christian and a jew went on Newsnight to respond to this news item, what they basically came up with is the Courtiers Reply, and a bit of a winge from the christian.

(Sorry if I wetted your appetite for a joke, but it simply wasn't funny)

No Atheist representation of course.

185. BBC 'too scared to allow jokes about Islam'

Comment #154240 by Enlightenme.. on April 3, 2008 at 1:14 am

Omid Djalili can. :)

Did anybody see bbc newsnight cover it?

The item before about 70 'Brain gym' instructors being in the employ of our education authorities was even more scary.
The headmistress of Acresfield primary school is a total fanboy of this Woo, and I expect her to have about 5 minutes left in her job, hopefully.
They interviewed kids about why they're doing these actions, and their brainwashed responses got my blood boiling.
'connecting hemispheres'
'opening up the electrical channels' you know - that sorta thing.

186. Beware the Believers

Comment #154072 by Enlightenme.. on April 2, 2008 at 2:06 pm

429. Comment #153689 by MPhil on April 1, 2008

"or might satirize exactly that sentiment :)

I'm still unsure..."


What I meant to say was, it's anti both sides in my opinion.

It doesn't have to refer to theists who *are* believers, but it asserts the cliche that 'rabidest atheists' are also susceptible to becoming *believers* in an ism - 'scientism'.

I think it may also be attempting to portray us as having become 'haters' too, ie; we are identifying religion as an object of hate
(with the ever-present danger that you have to assign that emotion of hate towards agents - and since God doesn't exist the poor theists become the agency you target)
I don't think hate in "hate dog too" is chosen merely to scan well.

But, I still really like it - I think that like the 'Read a book' video, it has a great message for rebellious adolescents, it contains the warning, but also the message 'Science - it works, bitches.'

187. Beware the Believers

Comment #153687 by Enlightenme.. on April 1, 2008 at 8:40 pm

Title: Beware the *believers*

" rabidest atheist who..
..*believes* that no God but science could ever be true.
hell, if I was dyslexic I'd even hate "dog" too. "


Suggests:
That Atheism is a belief system - that science is Richard's god, and further suggests that that makes him a 'hater'.

188. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #153511 by Enlightenme.. on April 1, 2008 at 2:20 pm

#152618 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008

"Isn't that the scariest thing with the Iran situation. That if the Bush administration do decide to carry out a tactical air strike of Iran (probably through Israel) the consequences would be incalculable. Perhaps the destruction of most of the Middle East? "

Irradiating three quarters of the world's oil reserves would give the US a larger problem than it would solve, I suggest.
Iran probably makes this calculation as well.

189. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #152956 by Enlightenme.. on March 31, 2008 at 7:06 pm

Re; 24

Blimey Al, Erdogan really said that?
He must not know his Ataturk and his Turkish military properly.

The shit is actually hitting the fan right now in Turkey - the judges are trying to ban the A.K. for acting against Secularism.

190. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #152914 by Enlightenme.. on March 31, 2008 at 5:42 pm

Well, Darfur, Rwanda, Somalia, Iraq, Kosovo, the UN has been as bust as the League of Nations for some time now.

I don't know why it entertained the OIC being in anyway - see the Cairo declaration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam

"The Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam (CDHRI) is a declaration of the member states of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, which provides an overview on the Islamic perspective on human rights, and affirms Islamic Shari'ah as its sole source."

"The CDHRI gives men and women the "right to marriage" regardless of their race, colour or nationality, (but not religion). In addition women are given "equal human dignity", "own rights to enjoy", "duties to perform", "own civil entity", "financial independence", and the "right to retain her name and lineage", though not equal rights in general."

"The Declaration prohibits to force anybody "to change his religion to another religion or to atheism", but it gives the individual no freedom to change his religion or belief"

"The Declaration grants individuals the right to express their opinion freely. It encourages them to propagate that which is right and good. However, it forbids the misuse of this right in order to "violate sanctities and the dignity of Prophets" "

Theres always a however isn't there - it reminds me of a forum exchange I had with a guy once who said:

"...Islam says that men and women are equal, but men are "a degree above"...
...Islam believes in equality for men and women, but in differing roles..."

I advised him to read Animal Farm.

191. Vatican: Islam surpasses Roman Catholicism as world's largest religion

Comment #152894 by Enlightenme.. on March 31, 2008 at 5:18 pm

I have a suggestion - seeing as the Vatican now recognises the ToE, a quite easy further step would be to pass an edict imbueing all subjects of the class Primates, or the order Chordata with a soul, then decree that all water on the Earth is holy water so that they self-baptise.

Either that or sabotage the condoms.

192. Christian Founders 3D Adventure Computer Game

Comment #152871 by Enlightenme.. on March 31, 2008 at 4:55 pm

Thing is, say you dug up some relics in a forgotten bank vault that could prove beyond all reasonable doubt that every single one of them was a confirmed X-tian, as well as holding an assured belief that the white man was inherently superior to all other 'races'...

what the ***k relevance to how to run your nation should that bear now?

If Charles Darwin left an early wax cylinder recording stating that he was in fact a X-tian, would that then become evidence that the X-tian God exists?

193. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152367 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 8:31 pm

*News update*

Satanic verses play now being staged in germany.

Also in the news report (BBC 24):

"A fatwa calling for Rushdie to be executed was issued by Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989, and is still in force today"

I didn't know that, I actually thought that the Fatwa calling for his death had been rescinded, am I wrong?

I was wrong:
Wiki:
On September 24, 1998, as a precondition to the restoration of diplomatic relations with Britain, the Iranian government, then headed by Mohammad Khatami, gave a public commitment that it would "neither support nor hinder assassination operations on Rushdie." Hardliners in Iran have, however, continued to reaffirm the death sentence. In early 2005, Khomeini's fatwa was reaffirmed by Iran's spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, in a message to Muslim pilgrims making the annual pilgrimage to Mecca. Additionally, the Revolutionary Guards have declared that the death sentence on him is still valid. Iran has rejected requests to withdraw the fatwa on the basis that only the person who issued it may withdraw it, and the person who issued it is dead.

194. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152356 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 7:42 pm

"I think we all agree the Islamic people are violently against humanity, and that the Islamic are beyond recovery."

Ah! Mr Wilders little film does have a target audience.


"...their beliefs and religions are not just different, they are barbaric, and disgusting through the..."

Edit; Sigh.. Again :(

195. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152353 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 7:30 pm

Dextrose - to be unbiased, in this video at least, Wilder's clearly calls for the Quran to be changed to *not* the infallible unalterable word of Allah, but to be excised of its uglier texts.

So nothing less than an Islamic enlightenment will do.

It's not realpolitik - that's for sure - but he does not (at least in this video) call for it to be banned.

However, from elsewhere that I've read, this film doesn't cover what I believe you may be correct he has called for elsewhere (but don't quote me on that).

Aidan86;
The MCB is the Muslim Council of Britain, for all it's irony, that placard template was, as I said, in a collection available for download on the site, and I also still have them.
Also - they were professionally made up in a DTP programme, and downloadable as a powerpoint, there were numerous press photos of these, and the homemades, if you only care to look.

"Oh really? Pray do tell, where did you hear that you can't publish works that incite violence?"
...erm, actually, there are are laws you know..

196. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152341 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 6:39 pm

I guess one thing we have to ask is; if this was published by the BNP, would we be unreservedly in support of it's legitimacy to be seen?

Still Yes, I'm afraid to have to say.

You have probably seen some posts by a fellow going under the name Fanusi Kayal, LaTomate? - He often says much the same thing - though he tends to go further rather apocolyptically about nuclear conflict and the like also.

Funily enough though - I think we may see less trouble here in Britain - my feeling is that last year's Mohammed the bear incident made some farce of the whole 'taking offence' thing in some quarters, and has caused a sort of schism to develop between those who think this is the way to say 'I'm Muslim and proud' and those who've decided to grow up, and attempt to change British foreign policy through the more grown-up channels.

197. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152332 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 5:57 pm

^ Re 28, Paine
Some of it was from 'Undercover mosque'

One thing I can say I have never seen before, is the head of the man beheaded [with sound also] nor a woman's severed head still with hijab on.

I liked the part where Wilder's states that the actual 'desecration of Quran' tearing sound actually wasn't, and states that that is not up to him.

A possible reason also for this getting pulled was because Kurt Westegaard was unhappy with his cartoon being used for what he sees as anti-Islam use rather than his original intention of anti-Islamic terrorists - obviously an important distinction.

Sadly, Paine, concerning your hopes for the British media to continue to screen documentaries like undercover mosque, this is less likely to happen now, because it was put under serious investigation by the police for supposedly being sensationally edited to sow disharmony - for which I'm pretty sure it was cleared unreservedly, but the message from the authorities was clear - Watch Your Step.

198. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152326 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 5:29 pm

Comment #152287 by gyokusai on March 30, 2008 at 3:53 pm

"Behead those who say Islam is violent!"


That pic was a spoof.

199. Beware the Believers

Comment #152216 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Thanks for the Belgian footie Geoff!

Frankus - I think your dog Shayla has distemper or summat - have you had her checked, she's madder than my mum's siamese cat.

200. Beware the Believers

Comment #152186 by Enlightenme.. on March 30, 2008 at 11:25 am

^ Perhaps a bunch of us could pimp our avatars for a week or 2 in tribute to the vid - which I like, for it's main message that you'd do best to learn some science, find out who Sam Wilberforce [not William Wilberforce - see pharyngula] was, etc.

Yo Frankus..erm..podaar..my maan.