151. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89589 by SilentMike on November 21, 2007 at 7:21 am

40. Comment #89580 by GSP

That being said I am also forced to reckon with the fact that Ali has played a major role in creating the mess in the Middle East.

What?!? What major role? What the hell is wrong with you? We in the middle east are perfectly capable of slaughtering each other without Hirsi Ali's help.

This hatred of Hirsi Ali is completely insane. Even if the neocons have caused this mess (and it is unfair to ignore the fact that the lion share of the blame should go to muslims) it is hardly due to Hirsi Ali. All Hirsi Ali did was tell the truth about the way women are treated in the islamic world, and if that helped the neocon cause at the time then that's too bad but it's still the truth, and it should have beed exposed.

Yeah I know I said we should stop talking about this, but I couldn't help it. Besides, it's OK to talk about Hirsi Ali. I just hope this topic doesn't become too common.

152. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89561 by SilentMike on November 21, 2007 at 5:30 am

I have a modest suggestion. We've had a conversation/debate. Everybody got a say, and everybody made their decision. Lets stop talking about this. Surely there are other matters besides miss Hirsi-Ali. No one should "shut up" but it may be time to consider donating what we can (or not) moving on.

And again, thank you Sam Harris.

153. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89510 by SilentMike on November 21, 2007 at 1:30 am

204. Comment #89491 by Veronique

Veronique. I don't know you because I'm relatively new here (and because I don't like people) but I generally don't think it's healthy to back out because of some wierdoes (wirdoes like me or of any other kind). This site is a great resource and there are many fasinating and intelligent people here. I remember when I started considering posting here (I was a silent reader for a very long time before I began posting) one of the things going through my mind was "It's going to difficult for me to shine in here", and it is. It's bloody near impossible to make a positive impression. This place is full of very bright critical thinkers that are used to being the smartest guy (or gal) in the room. This is why I personally find writing here is both frustrating and invigorating. You shouldn't let some rude people you out of the room, because if you leave this playe you'll leave the next one too. Every productive organism gets its parasites.

Again, I don't really know you but I'm interested maximizing the number of non-crazy people here. So if you do stop posting, I implore you to stay around for the articles. Maybe they will compel you to post again.

154. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89487 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 11:47 pm

Thank you Sam Harris for this explanation, which proves once again that there is a difference between rationalists and the religious. We asked for answers and we go them.

PeterK:

I just spent the last thread protecting people with dissenting views, I'm not going to tell you to shut up or to exclaim "Shame on you". Just as well as I don't think you have any shame or indeed that you will shut up. I will however tell you that your words in here and in the previous thread are mean and your claims seem unfounded.


17. Comment #89485 by Fanusi Khiyal

Again with this? If the guy says he can't afford it he can't afford it. Please don't try and shame him into paying. I don't want my proud money to sit with shamed money. I'm funny that way.

155. Are Scientists Playing God? It Depends on Your Religion

Comment #89401 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 2:45 pm

Oh how the wheel of history turns.

Look like now it's the white guy's turn to be the primitive. Thank you president Dumdum.

156. The Scientists Speak

Comment #89394 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 2:04 pm

This is one of those cases where one needs to consider all available evidence -about the changing climate and about human nature- and reach a logical conclusion about how one must handle this very serious crisis.

I'm going to see about buying some land in Greenland. That baby's going to be big on the realestate market in a few years.

157. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89327 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 10:06 am

Being quoted in this way is very flattering to me because it means my transition into the english speaking (or rather: english typing) internet was successful.

Just to streangthen my point. Some of the people who did not pay may be disgusting, but it's not because they don't pay, but rather because they went a too far with their personal attacks on Hirsi Ali. It's fine to disagree in a civil fashion, and I'm more than willing to listen to other views. The way I see it you have to actually say or do something sickening or disgusting to deserve those adjectives. Choosing not to give money simpley does not qualify. It isn't even a moral wrong in my view. This is a matter of personal conscience.

158. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89285 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 7:27 am

I don't think the US has less fundamentalist muslims then The Netherlands does.

You would be mistaken. At least if we're talking percentages of the total population. There are a lot more muslims in western europe then in the US.

Also, she is better known in Holland. She was a member of parliment there and has gathered many enemies. There are muslim crackpots in the US too of course, but they don't feel as free to operate as they do in europe, and they havn't launched the same inflametory campain against her and apostates like her. What she truely has to fear in the US is people who have heard of her from people in the Netherlands.

(If I'm wrong I invite you to correct me, but this is the situation as I understood it)

159. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89274 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 6:35 am

167. Comment #89272 by Nighttripper

Oh please. The threat to Hirsi Ali's life came due to her activities in the Netherlands as a Dutch citizen and member of parliment. So now after she moved to the US for her own safty it's not their responsibility anymore? Bollocks!

And before I here the inevitable "well if she's safe what's the money for": "Safer" does not mean safe.

That aside it may be in order for the US goernment to pick up the tab after admonishing the Dutch government for their negligence in doing the right thing and protecting a persicuted Dutch citizen.

It is, however, not going to happen as far as I can tell.

160. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89192 by SilentMike on November 20, 2007 at 1:44 am

I'm sorry to interrupt the mixed orgy of adulation and vilification but WHAT THE BLOODY HELL ARE YOU DOING?

Granted some of the people who don't want to pay said some things that are pretty low. But that's no reason for people on "my side" of the debate to be such good christians. Brian has now been refered to as "disgusting" because he's honest. This is beyond ridiculous.

Criticize the people who were nasty, that's fine, and by all means, do try and convince the more reasonable of those who disagree that contributing to this cause is important. But please, let us avoid blanket statements. This whole "put your money where your mouth is or gag it" attitude is just off. None of you are Bill O'reilly so for the love of -WHATEVER- please stop telling people who don't agree with you to shut up.

161. Interview with Christopher Hitchens

Comment #89050 by SilentMike on November 19, 2007 at 3:15 pm

I wouldn't put that thing on my head.

162. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88987 by SilentMike on November 19, 2007 at 12:27 pm

At least 8 comments have been erased. What's with that?

163. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88976 by SilentMike on November 19, 2007 at 10:49 am

99. Comment #88973 by kaiserkriss

SilentMike.. Point taken. I'm not judging people here for contributing or not contributing,(each to his own). However after reading through ALL the posts, my impression was that certain individuals were digging a deeper hole trying to justify their position with continuously more inane and childish arguments.

Some people were digging and at may be worth pointing out that they are. Others gave other, less annoying, reasons. My point was that a debate on the question should be permitted. I think we've reached something of a common ground on that.


98. Comment #88972 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Thank you. I could not have put it better myself. Irrationality is not limited to theists. Blind idiology that disregards evidence and does not allow doubt is the real problem. Religion is just one popular manifestation of this.

164. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88968 by SilentMike on November 19, 2007 at 10:02 am

93. Comment #88955 by kaiserkriss

I don't think it's right to try and shut the other side up. We're all of us grown ups here and we can read all views before making an informed decision. I'm sure that a lot of people chose not to pay without saying anything, just like a lot of people chose to pay without advertising it. This is a public message board and everyone has a right to voice their view. I happen to think that some of the people who decided not to pay explained themselves well (Some of course didn't).

I sent my contribution but I'm not going to sit on my high hourse and judge people for choosing not to do so. It's their business. This strategy of guilting and silencing people isn't how we should do things. This is one of the things I dislike the most about organised religion: The manipulative overuse of guilt to get people to do what you want.

165. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88875 by SilentMike on November 19, 2007 at 5:30 am

That's a good point appleby. I don't know about you but I have yet to receive any concrete death threats in my many years of atheism.

166. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88868 by SilentMike on November 19, 2007 at 5:12 am

61. Comment #88861 by Fanusi Khiyal

There is no duty imposed to donate, but those that don't, like Nightripper, then forfeit any right to be considered seriously when they protest about religious tyrrany.

People have every right not to donate. They have, however, no right to change what that implies about them.

Nightstripper andothers can say what they want and every reader can decide on his or her own what that "implies about them". Personally I'd rather hear the descenting view and I don't think someone is a worthless piece of **** just because they decided against giving to this cause. I don't like this strategy of pressuring and guilting people into giving. Plus, as far as you and I know some of these people may donate more than you and I combined to various good causes.


62. Comment #88865 by Appleby

Part of "coming out" is assuming the risks just like everyone else.

Some of us assume greater risks than others.





BTW. I also put a little bit of my money where my mouth was.

167. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88855 by SilentMike on November 19, 2007 at 4:39 am

There's now need for mud slinging or for "shame on you"-s. It's perfectly OK to donate money, and it's perfectly OK to decide you have better things to do with your limited funds. It's also perfectly OK to want to know the details, especially when we're asked to reach into our pockets. I'm probably going to give a small amount anyway as my trust Harris is worth more than 10$, but I'd still like to know more about the situation.

168. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88700 by SilentMike on November 18, 2007 at 3:33 pm

10. Comment #88694 by jaytee_555

My initial reaction was to support Sam Harris' suggestion, but on reflection, I'd like some of the questions raised above to be answered before I decide.

It is allways good to get more information. Maybe Sam should elaborate and answer the questions that have been raised. This is in no way intended to be disrespectful of Sam Harris or to cast doubt on the purity of his intentions. It's just that we are an inquisitive skeptical lot after all and some explanations may be in order. I'm sure that good answers will bring about an increase in donations.

169. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88684 by SilentMike on November 18, 2007 at 2:03 pm

This is all very confusing. Are we certain that Ayaan Hirsi Ali needs our money?

Even if she doesn't (and you never really know if there's going to be an assassin waiting in the bushes till he or she strikes) others do and will. People that are contemplating whether or not to speak up need to know that we take care of whistle blowers like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I'm going to see about making a modest contribution.

170. Religious scholars mull Flying Spaghetti Monster

Comment #88429 by SilentMike on November 16, 2007 at 3:31 pm

This is playing with fire you know. If there's anything crackpot religions like scientology and christianity teach us it's that people will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous, if it's repeated often enough for a sufficient amount of time and with enough conviction. If they believe in that jewish zombie who was born of a virgin how much of a problem is swallowing a little divine pasta going to be?

One has to wonder if all religions aren't just the result of jokes, fairy tales or intentional scams, rather than failed attempts at explaining the workings of the world.

171. For the glory of God

Comment #88420 by SilentMike on November 16, 2007 at 2:28 pm

Well what do you know? A non-hostile report. That's nice.

There may be some hope yet.

172. 'Growing Up in the Universe' now available free online

Comment #87986 by SilentMike on November 14, 2007 at 2:21 am

Is any else having problems downloading this? It downloads incredibly slowly then eventually cuts off.

I can't get it to start downlaoding at all. I hope the problems. get solved soon.

richarddawkins.net, please setup the file downloads through a torrent...

According to robertobech (comment #87943) it's already on torrent. Since it's being given away anyway, how about just putting to links to the file sharing networks online (not that I have torrent installed, but it would help many others)?

173. A third of adults believe God watches over them

Comment #87535 by SilentMike on November 12, 2007 at 11:54 am

A third of adults believe God watches over them.

I would like to object to the use of the term "adults" in this context. These people are not adults. Not really.

174. Pat Robertson Says Giuliani Presidency Appears in Book of Revelation

Comment #87224 by SilentMike on November 11, 2007 at 2:19 pm

As a concerned non-american I can't say I'm too happy about any of the merry bunch in the run for the american presidency. I don't see Giuliani as too bad.

As an Israeli,he's good for us, though most of you wouldn't care about that. As an rational atheist, I have to say he's among the less christy of the republicans and actually measures up pretty well in comperison with the Democrat hopefulls as well (If I head Hillary Clinton start going on about her faith again I swear to The FSM I will vomit). He's pro-choice so he'll appoint the right judges. He managed to not raise his hand when requested to show allegiance to creationism.

Giuliani may go on about 9/11 but he doesn't really have anything to do with the current administration. Being Mayor of a liberal city he's hardly the kind of conservative that's going to obsess about people's personal morals. Quite frankly I don't really care what he says in this campain circus. It isn't like you can believe that anyway.

I think that there are some choices out there that are a lot worse than Giuliani.

175. Holy communion

Comment #87092 by SilentMike on November 11, 2007 at 6:58 am

From Richard Norman's closing paragraph:

but it's actually more complicated than that. Some of our allies against creationism may be deeply prejudiced against gays. Some of the best people working to combat global poverty may be Catholic anti-abortionists. Some of the Muslim allies we need to counter Islamist violence may have deeply sexist attitudes to women. It all demonstrates what a deeply contradictory phenomenon religion is.

And this tells you... what?

Seriously, he's almost there. The moderates are better to work with then the extremists/fundamentalists because they are less religious. But even the moderates have their imperfections. Why? Because of religion. Religion is false. If you're less religious the human being comes out (sometimes that's good and sometimes not so much) and we can work together based on reason. Nobody's against cooperating with moderates on some issues. All rationalists (Richard Norman's word. Not mine) are saying is let us not forget that religion, even in moderate dilute form, is a very real problem.

176. The New Atheism rocks

Comment #85886 by SilentMike on November 7, 2007 at 12:14 pm

Very good article. I really enjoyed reading it.

177. Fox News Discussion on 'The Golden Compass'

Comment #85723 by SilentMike on November 7, 2007 at 12:08 am

What's the american term? "Partisan hack"?

178. Response to Dinesh D'Souza op-ed

Comment #85722 by SilentMike on November 7, 2007 at 12:07 am

70. Comment #85641 by Corylus

Thanks you for your clarification. I think now a short clarification from me is required in regard to my use of the term "Dishonest".

a) Not bothering to report what your opponent actually said
b) taking quotes out of context,
c) 'fiddling' the figures
d) Repeating commonly held but fallacious viewpoints (e.g. that the founding fathers were Christian – like D'Souza did)
e) Playing on prejudices that you think your readers probably hold
f) Using logical fallacies in your argumentation.

I certainly didn't mean to imply dishonesty of that kind. I meant exactly what I said about misrepresenting your own opinion. Again this is "Kosher" if you're being ironic and using humor to poke fun at you're opponent. But if you're writing something that's meant to be taken seriously by the reader as your sincere opinion on the matter (and this was what I actually meant be "a serious article") then you should, in my judgement, be very clear about where you stand. If you think D'Souza is a disingenuous little sh*t then you should make it clear that you're not a fan pretty much from the beginning of your article. If I'm a partisanm I don't think it's honest to "start with completely unemotional and non-partisan exposition" and then continue as you instructed, slowly creeping into my true stance. I follow the exposition by saying "Ok, I totally disagree with this, and here's why" (Agian, unless I choose to employ humor as my main weapon).

179. Response to Dinesh D'Souza op-ed

Comment #85586 by SilentMike on November 6, 2007 at 9:31 am

42. Comment #85403 by Janus

Gasp! Have I been called an amateur? Well of course I'm an amateur, much more so than Kelly.

However, Corylus is obviously not. I wish had I read her little guide half a decade ago. Listen to her. :)

Being the compliant person that I am I quickly tapped the "page-up" button till I reached Corylus' message. The message below is dircted at both of you.


35. Comment #85370 by Corylus

Corylus. As I am always interested in improving my writing skill I was exhilarated when I saw your list of tips. I quickly copied it to a file in my computer, and then proceeded to read it.

I have to say I didn't particularly like your list. In fact I'm afraid I'm going to have to take issue with it.

My problem with the method you propose is simple. I find it to be a recipe for a snide and dishonest article. Now snide I can live with, at times. I'm feeling a bit on the snide side myself at the moment. I would not, however, put a snide attitude on a list of general tips as part of the correct way to write an article.

Dishonesty is a bigger problem. Pretending you don't have an opinion and then sort of "leading" your reader ("making him feel smart" and the like)... I don't know, I just don't like it. All those techniques seem OK on their own and when used in moderation (Though there are many alternatives). But from your description I get a feeling of dishonesty in writing. A lot of it could work if one adopts an ironic/sarcastic style of writing (where sarcasm resides what would usually be seen as dishonesty is permissible), but when writing a serious article I'm afraid it just won't fly.

And BTW -and this is just one person's opinion- I think the article is pretty good. It's good as a blog/forum post (though a bit long) and it's also good as an article. I don't think the two form of writing are unconnected. Yes there are differences but good is good. It isn't perfect, it could be improved, the writing style could use some refining. But I think that, all in all, it's pretty good.

180. Mother dies after refusing blood

Comment #85297 by SilentMike on November 5, 2007 at 12:47 pm

Well, this isn't news to anyone here is it? Believing in ridiculous nonesense can have repercussions. It's very sad that these kinds of things happen but it's to be expected. The woman is free to make her own decisions, and if she's basing them on false ideas horrible results are to be expected. This kinds of sensless deaths are going to continue happenning as long as people are uninformed about the way the world works.

181. The Turning of an Atheist

Comment #85044 by SilentMike on November 4, 2007 at 4:36 pm

havn't read all the replies so I'm not sure whether or not someone already said this but this kind of shameful behaviour seems to me to be a very strong indication of a sort of panic on the other side. I mean this isn't the old fashioned use of force, because they don't have that option anymore. It's not clearly effective like actually succeeding to ged ID taught in schools. It isn't anything. It just seems like these guys stooped as low as one can stoop in order to get some seemingly worthless achievement. The act seems more than a bit desperate.

I mean it's an underhanded revolting thing to do. But still, pretty desperate.

182. Rome playing politics

Comment #84756 by SilentMike on November 3, 2007 at 12:58 pm

"The catholic church. Screwing everything up for absolutely everyone since 313"

183. A House Divided: Hitch at Georgetown

Comment #84644 by SilentMike on November 3, 2007 at 3:30 am

McGrath is a Non-Opponent.

184. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #84292 by SilentMike on November 1, 2007 at 4:18 pm

Many people have the mentality of teenagers. I don't remember all the details (and I have no intention of watching this again) but when I watched this I got the distinct impression that Hitchens missed some marks and that some of his ready made stories were themselves showhorned as responses to questions and challenges. One that comes to mine is the somewhat inadequet response to the "constants of the universe" nonesense. Another example was the "where did our morality come from" point, though this is probably due in part to Hitchens' lack of scientific knowledge.

The details are by now a blur in may head. The overall impression was and remains that Hitchens gave D'Souza rope, and he did not hang himself with it. In the words of the second responder, Hitchens was too defensive.

185. Are the 'New Atheists' avoiding the 'real arguments'?

Comment #84111 by SilentMike on November 1, 2007 at 7:25 am

Good article. A good answer to the "It's not my God you're denying" crowd.

If you believe in any of this nonesense then it is your god I'm denying. If not, then what the hell is your god and why should I take him seriously?

186. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #84031 by SilentMike on November 1, 2007 at 3:22 am

183. Comment #83981 by Diacanu

I finally made myself sit through the whole thing.

....you people who said D'souza won are nuts!

Hitchens mopped the floor with him!

Oh, D'souza was slick, and a lot of the audience wooed him, but Hitchens got his share of applause too, and argument wise, he trounced D'Souza!!

What debate were you people watching?!?!

We were watching this debate. On pure logic and to the informed person D'Souza was pitiful. You could have put a traffic cone in Hitchens' place and D'Souza still could not have won with what he had. The problem is that in a public debate you can't count on people being well informed and sharp minded. Naturally some viewers will be, but not all.

I was trying to pretend I didn't know what I know about this subject. I was trying to think like someone who was wandering whether "Christianity was part of the problem" or not. I think to those people D'Souza seemed to make some good points. In actuallity these points weren't even real points. But he timed those fake points in a way that Hitchens could not reply. Hitchens on the other hand gave the usual spiel. Don't get me wrong, I love that spiel but this time it wasn't always appropriate. This is Hitchens' problem. He always seems to give the exact same points in the exact same way. It seems that D'Souza studied Hitchens and managed to give the right questions so that Hitchens' ready made answers won't sound as good as they usually do.

Maybe I am judging Hitchens a bit too harshly. I tend to be critical and have high expectations from "our guys". And on the other hand I really don't expect much from the likes of D'Souza. I may be wrong (Though I think I'm right), but in any case my point is this: D'Souza is no Mc'Grath (ever notice how all the apologists have an apostrophe in their names? what's up with that?). He's an effective debater.

On the plus size D'Souza probably lost all those people who don't like aggressiveness because of all his personal attacks. This was probably the first time Hitchens ever got those guys on his side.

187. Leslie Orgel, 80; chemist was father of the RNA world theory of the origin of life

Comment #83921 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 4:35 pm

It's good to see that in death like in life this site focuses on some of the important people that the popular media gives no attention to.

Death is a sad thing any which way you put it. I believe you should try and find the way to do good and derive good from everything. This man who died illuminated our world with his work. As a young scientist in the making it is all I can wish for to have a chance to do the same in the future. There is nothing that shows more respect to the lives of those who went before us than making the choice to continue in their quest to make this world a better place by improving our understanding of its workings.

188. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83917 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 4:20 pm

The Kurdish state doesn't have to include the turkish part. I think these guys should sit down and talk instead of getting each other all riled up. They can establish a Kurdish state in northerd Iraq (and maybe north-eastern Iran if all the puzzle pieces fall into place) and then the kurds in Turky will have a choice. They can stay in Turky as turkish citizens or move to the new Kurdistan (like jews converged to israel). Things can work out when people make compromises (A word some religious people have truble with).

189. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83910 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 4:02 pm

Actually I am wating for a Kurdish homeland to appear. Wouldn't it be nice to have another one of those all too rare non-crazy Muslim majority states?

190. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83899 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 3:32 pm

For such a all powerful and influential lot we sure got our asses kicked a lot throughout history...

191. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #83884 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 2:28 pm

Yes. "Panic" is a bit of an exaggeration. My someone thinks highly of himself!

We're just honest enough to state it when something less than favorable happens. D'Souza probably isn't used to that.

192. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #83851 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 1:29 pm

177. Comment #83844 by mcadamsdj

I agree with your analyses on the last word thing. The fact remains that for the average person it would seem that D'Souza made some points. He didn't in our eyes because we know all these arguments and why they're wrong, but it seems that he did in the eyes of someone who doesn't know that.

193. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #83838 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 12:44 pm

It's a free web. If he wants to read my comment he's more than welcome. I'm not going to censor myself because he might be reading. He's not the secret police and we're not in north Korea, so there's nothing to fear.

BTW. I find his arguments utterly unconvinsing (and quite dishonest). I just think he's effective on people who aren't well aquainted with the arguments and facts (and this is true of many people who are not as obsessed with this nonesense as we are).

194. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #83817 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 11:56 am

It pains me to say this but as I see it to the external observer I believe that D'Souza won. There was no KO, but the point margine was quite clear.

D'Souza is low, he makes personal attacks, he plays dirty saying egregious things when there is no time for an answer. And Hitchens lets him. This is a real disappointment for me. I don't know what happened to Hitchens. He was just standing there reciting his regular lines. I'm sorry to say but some of them were just not appropriate.

He's no McGrath this guy. He's good at what he does.

195. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83764 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 7:14 am

27. Comment #83718 by Mike O'Risal

In other news, Jews are preventing Muslims from ruling the world by selling them drugs. No, really, Lebanese television says so. In fact, all that Jewish drug-dealing is why the Nazis had to exterminate a few million Jews. It all makes perfect sense now, doesn't it?

I'm confused. Do these guys hate me more because I'm an atheist or because I come from a jewish background? It's really important to know these things...

I find this obsession with "The jews" highly unhealthy. Christianity and Islam have been around for thosands of years. Isn't it about time they grow up, stand on their own feet and stop blaming every damn thing on their parent religion and it members (practicing or just born into)?

196. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83701 by SilentMike on October 31, 2007 at 1:34 am

5. Comment #83614 by NakedCelt

And where is "their" money coming from? We are funding these people at the petrol pump.

Yes. I am aware of the irony. I would say though that the house of Saud bares some resposibility because of the way they choose to use the oil money.

If you want to see radical Islam weakened, a good first step would be finding a viable, renewable alternative energy source to oil.

Agreed. But I don't see oil becoming valueless any time soon, so in the meantime I suggest we try to do something about the way all that oil money is spent.

197. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83613 by SilentMike on October 30, 2007 at 4:20 pm

It's time that somebody told the Saudi royal family that if they don't don't stop enciting every crazy violent urge in Islam they're going to be made to drink all that oil.

Seriously. We already know that their money's going to enciting crazy radical Islam. How much more of this backstabbing are we supposed to take?

198. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83607 by SilentMike on October 30, 2007 at 3:52 pm

The report said: "On the one hand, the results were reassuring: in only a minority of institutions - approximately 25 per cent – was radical material found.

Reassuring? "Only" 25% had litarature in the advocating murder?

What the bloody hell is wrong with these people?

199. Religion is not incompatible with Science: 'Non-Overlapping Magisteria'

Comment #81778 by SilentMike on October 25, 2007 at 7:00 am

I have to agree with most of what the people above said. The main point here is that science is the study of the real world (wonder where I first read that...), and if religion has anything to say about the nature of that world, then that's an overlap. As I mentioned this has been said by almost everybody.

But if my opponent said that his religiosity is really and truely not like that, and concede that most people's religiosity is, I still would not let up. In such a situation I would say the following: Even in the areas outside of science's magisteria religion is still a poor option. There are more rational attempts at moral philosophy, there are less confusing and mind-fettering attempts at inspiring proze, there are better ways to live your life.

200. Christopher Hitchens at AAI 07

Comment #79997 by SilentMike on October 19, 2007 at 1:46 pm

This is going to be a lot of fun.