2151. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #153420 by Goldy on April 1, 2008 at 1:07 pm

How many Chinese women are beaten to death for talking to men on facebook? That happened last week in Saudi Arabia.

Women are murdered by the fathers pretty often in Europe for "mingling".

In answer to those, probably more than the government cares to admit. They have a huge amount of backwardness there too. And mingling is also very strong - we westerners are OK, it seems, but generally the old phrase birds of a feather, etc, applies. Parental pressure is behind a lot of that.
Quite a few French elderly were killed by global warming, I read once. Assuming the high temperatures that year were a result of the world wide warming phenomenon. Then there's flooding too, and drought. In the papers a bit :-) However, we can't prove they're a result of global warming...so I guess your figure stands :-)

2152. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #153416 by Goldy on April 1, 2008 at 1:03 pm

Al

But I would like to point out to you that fundamentalism is on the rise everywhere

Aye, it is. I do hope you are meaning both sides of the religious divide! Fundy Islam s on the rise, probably as a response to a rise in Christian fundamentalism.
Incidently, going back to the suicide bombings debate (you know, Muslims or can we count the Tamil Tigers too, seems the Chinese are accusing Tibetan monks of the same :-) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7324473.stm)

2153. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #153403 by Goldy on April 1, 2008 at 12:57 pm

i'M WITH rICHARD mORGAN HERE (hits Caps Lock key, curses under his breath, decides to leave it as it is ...)
There seems to be some perception here in NZ about some form of "Asian invasion" - specifically Chinese (well Japanese and Koreans etc all look like Chinese...). However, as I wonder down Queen Street or wander into the malls, I see quite a few mixed race couple. Indeed, someone you might have guessed I am in one myself. Where does that leave the invading Asians? Same with the Islamics in Europe - they can't all not mingle. Where does that leave them?
Already I see something about restricting immigration and barely a week goes by without some newspaper piece that cannot ever be even thought of as Islamophilic. Yes, Muslims are projected to be a large proportion of teh future populations - but what if they are not allowed to be? What if we take some ideas from China with regards to ethnic minority integration? What if they all decide that they have been misled by their imams and turn their back on the religion of their fathers (doesn't seem, after all, to bring about anything but death - hardly a good advert for joining in!) and marry into European families?

2154. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #153005 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 8:39 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/01/nmigrants101.xml

More evidence of some form of backlashing against this multi-culturalism which other cultures appear to reject?

2155. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #153003 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 8:30 pm

The Islamic Association of China (Chinese: 中国伊斯兰教�会) claims to represent Chinese Muslims nationwide. At its inaugural meeting on May 11, 1953 in Beijing, representatives from 10 nationalities of the People's Republic of China were in attendance. Its stated missions and duties are: To assist the people's government in its implementation of the policy of freedom of religion; to carry forward the fine tradition of Islam; to cherish the motherland; to unify Muslims in participating in the socialist construction of the motherland; to develop friendly relation with Muslims in other countries; to maintain world peace; to collect and edit historical data about Islam; and so on. Its governing body is the national congress. Its headquarters is in Beijing.

From Wikipedia. What, it seems, the western Muslims are calling for and what, if they're not too careful, they'll probably get...

Edited with emphasis

2156. Vatican: Islam surpasses Roman Catholicism as world's largest religion

Comment #153002 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 8:26 pm

If Syria was anything to go by, a lot of the Muslims were merely cultural Muslims and so not really part of the equation. And I know a few Malaysians of Malay ethnicity who really aren't Muslims either, despite what Malaysia's laws say.
Meaningless statistics.

2157. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #153000 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 8:22 pm

Well, what a perfectly depresing day to log in and read comments! Both here and at teh other thread about Muslims!
I have been taking time off - got some life things to sort out, like cars that break, babies and gardens, etc, so can't jump into the conversations as before.
Here, I can see a problem - but then again, look who voted for what. Saudis in bed with the Chinese government - that'll be a marriage in hell :-) As the article said, they don;t care about freedom of expression or indeed human rights. Well, if they don't adhere tothem, fuck'em. We won't either. I believe there is an expression cautioning one to beware of wishing for things as they might come true. Fine, the religious want freedom of expression to be silenced, then they shall be. No more mosques, no more sermons without governmental supervision. Islam in the west will become like Islam in the East - oppressed. They can't complein as their compatriots and co-religionists wanted it that way.
There is no need to worry - things look bad but wait 20 years or so. My wife's family mananged to get through the cultural revolution, we got throught the spectre of nuclear warfare, the anti-Islamic backlash is probably starting now (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/world/middleeast/04youth.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=iraq, clerics&st=nyt&oref=slogin and http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Turkey-Secularism.html?scp=2&sq=turkey&st=nyt - sorry it's all from just one news source).
For all the destruction we see, there has to be reconstruction. And as bad as things look, remember, we aren't Burmese or Darfuri or Tibetans (though, in the case of the latter, many Chinese see them as we see our own aboriginal peoples in our ex-colonial lands. Think how you consider that drunk Abo or that moko'd Maori in the bar or that drunk Indian in his beat up old pick-up next time....) - we have these freedoms, we just need to make sure we use our voting power to keep them for a bit longer.

2158. Vatican: Islam surpasses Roman Catholicism as world's largest religion

Comment #152877 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 4:59 pm

I had a titter at tyhis meaningless statistic too, but then, China sees Catholicism as distinct from Christianity too - I wonder what the Holy See has been doing behind our backs...

2159. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152760 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 1:29 pm

Wonder if China and India would allow all this Islamicisation to happen to Europe and America? We are, after all, their biggest employers and biggest customers...

2160. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152299 by Goldy on March 30, 2008 at 4:22 pm

Saudi view...
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=108432&d=31&m=3&y=2008

2161. Fleabytes

Comment #150887 by Goldy on March 27, 2008 at 2:08 pm

Kaiser

I have this notion, the more civilized a country, the easier it is for them to laugh at themselves. Most Nations take themselves way too seriously.

I'd like all people to be like Homer Simpson in the episode where they all join a cult. Dunno if you know it, they're trying to break his spirit by pointing out all his fallacies and he's alughing and agreeing with them. Nations are sort of like that - but woe betide an outsider that dares to criticise. Look at China's reaction to the rest of the world condemning it's actions in Tibet (Bhot or Xizang, depending on your favourite name). They'll all talk among themselves and probably agree that there are grievances that need to be addressed, but come a nation that has reservations for its aboriginal people or who has a recent history of empire and tell them what to do, things get nasty.
To laugh at ourselves is one thing - to laugh with others is another. That's what I feel lacks at times.
Big Rock - yep. There's a few - I liked the strong one they had. Forget the name but it tasted of Theakston's Old Peculiar.

2162. Fleabytes

Comment #150868 by Goldy on March 27, 2008 at 1:35 pm

Interesting place, China. Mind you, only been to Shanghai and a few surrounding cities and Beijing. Stayed with family and friends, so really only a tourist.
Somehow it doesn't wuite match the adulation I read about. I hear about Pudong, how it was fields adn now it has huge buildings and towers etc. Hmmm - having seen the workers, any country can do this if using the same methods. It would be hard in the west because our trade unions are there to protect workers and their rights. In China it appears to be the opposite - trade unions are there to ensure the workers work. Tall towers do not, in my opinon, a world class power make. As I read a taxi driver saying, they might as well have made large paintings of the towers and lined the streets with them as the ordinary person can't really afford any of it. The general population live in nice communist style buildings, so even with elevators :-)
China did not strike me as a first world place - just a third world country with a veneer. Granted, things will change, but there seems to be a lot of stagnation, in government and in people's minds, that has to be overcome. I know the minds are shedding the dross and sprinting forward (mostly) but the government...hmmm...
Still a great place for a visit, mind.

2163. Fleabytes

Comment #150863 by Goldy on March 27, 2008 at 1:30 pm

One thing I learnt from the Brits, they can laugh at themselves, something many of us would be wise to emulate

Well, only when we're not bitching between ourselves! Read the Daily telegraph letter pages... ;-D

2164. Fleabytes

Comment #150852 by Goldy on March 27, 2008 at 1:22 pm

I used to drink Big Rock beers when I was in Alberta (http://www.bigrockbeer.com/).
I like the strong Belgian beers (Duvel, Chimay etc) and wheat beers (especially after gardening in the summer). Cider is also good for a change - I made some using the apples in my garden. Fermented using champagne yeast, so it was a bit dry. Should have thrown some other types of apples into the mix. I am now experimenting with honey - home made mead can be pretty tasty! And at about NZ$12 for a 2 litre tub in the market, can be not too expensive. Of course, now I have to watch for toxic honey (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4451539a11.html) but as I'm converting it into a neurotoxin, I'm not overly worried ;-)
Avoid Al Sharq beer from Aleppo. That defines the nastiest beer. Makes Corona palatable in comparison!

2165. Fleabytes

Comment #150838 by Goldy on March 27, 2008 at 1:11 pm

Beer! I love beer! Proper beer, mind. That's why I have to cut down as it's getting rather pricy now. Still, off to Galbraiths tonight :-)
Anyone read this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7316281.stm ?
Religion does poison everything - see how ccenturies after the crusades there is still a trend for separation of religions!

2166. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #150390 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 8:20 pm

From Arab News

Of Fatwas and Infidels
Abeer Mishkhas, abeermishkhas@arabnews.com

The Shoura Council last week defeated a proposal to adopt a law promoting respect for other religions and religious symbols. The proposal that would have had the blessings of the Arab League was opposed by 77 members and supported by 33.

In his reason for voting against the proposal, one member told Al-Watan newspaper that the negative effects might outweigh the positive ones as it would give legality to nonmonotheistic religions and consequently it would allow the building of houses of worship for those religions in Muslim countries.

The proposal was surely influenced by the Danish cartoon crisis that recently resurfaced. If we look at the consequences of approving such a proposal, we will see that it would have been an important step forward. It simply proposes respect for other religions and tolerance for those who practice them. The proposal suggests simply that people in the world need to learn to live together and to accept each other for what they are and that people must also remember that respect and tolerance work both ways.

A few days earlier, there was a report that Sheikh Abdul Rahman Al-Barrak had issued a fatwa against two Saudi writers, Yousef Aba Al-Khail and Abdullah bin Bejad. Their articles which were published in Al-Riyadh newspaper questioned the Sunni Muslim view that is standard in Saudi Arabia that adherents of other faiths should be considered unbelievers. Al-Barrak called them infidels and said they should repent or be killed: "Anyone who claims this has refuted Islam and should be tried so that he can take it back. If not, he should be killed as an apostate from the religion of Islam," Sheikh Barrak was quoted by Reuters as saying in his March 14 religious edict which was published on his website. Let us be clear â€" the two articles were entitled "The Other in the Islamic Balance" and "The Islam of the Shariah and the Islam of Struggle." Their thrust was that Islam does not denounce non-Muslims as infidels. One writer argued that early Islam did not consider people of different beliefs to be "infidels" as we now understand the word. He cites Qur'anic verses that support his argument. He reacted to the fatwa by saying that its aim was to prevent him from stating his opinion and to frighten people away from interpreting the text themselves. The other writer argued that Islam at its core was a peaceful religion that does not hate "the other" and that it is "merciful toward all mankind." He added that people have used religion down through the ages as a tool in disputes in order to give themselves and their beliefs sanctity.

The fact that those writers offered a new understanding of a difficult issue is good; at least it opened up the subject for discussion and one expected the discussion to be civilized. Unfortunately as has become the habit of some, their only response is to denounce the holders of opposing views as infidels â€" no reasoned argument, no logic, no historical precedents. Simply denounce. It is sad that coverage of this matter in the Saudi papers has been so feeble; it went unreported apart from a few comments. Writers should be aware of the danger of such a fatwa and should leap to the defense of others, even if they do not agree with what the other writers have said.

What the Shoura member and the two writers propose amounts to the same thing â€" respect for, and acceptance of, other religions and communities. This is something that the sheikh evidently failed to understand. For him it is blasphemy even to suggest something different, and his only answer was a fatwa that was a death sentence. One of the writers has said that the sheikh is not representative of the mainstream. And while he may not be particularly influential, he could certainly "inspire" one of his followers to carry out the sentence of death. One of the writers says he is going to sue the sheikh even though he acknowledges the futility of doing so.

The problem is not simply with one sheikh and one fatwa; it is the tendency to rule out discussion and argument altogether. That is why this is no trivial, pedantic internal discussion. There are wider implications. In an atmosphere of menacing threats, it is hard to see how serious discussions of issues can flourish and, at the same time, we see very clearly the central difficulty that Saudi society has with the outside world.

2167. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150374 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 7:34 pm

Now that you mention it, however, gene transfer between organisms isn't a random means of evolving either. For example, antibiotic resistance genes are transfered from one organism to another including from one species to another. It isn't that random genetic material is transferred and sometimes the recipient gets lucky. We don't know yet (at least I don't know) how specific genes are 'directed' to other organisms. But it can be observed occurring and is pretty common.

Might it not be that we are only really seeing the lucky ones and ignoring the poor buggers that don't make it? You must admit that the passing on of genetic material can be pretty much hit and miss too. Using your antibiotic resistance, yes, it is passed on but there are many who don't get the genes are die off. Given a large population, many live and many die, net result being many living which we see and many dead which we don't.
I'm assuming specific genes are directed by vectors such as viri - we're full of virally derived genetic material.

2168. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #150370 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 7:24 pm

I blame Darwinian evolution for Hitler's ideology

Well, I guess Hitler was a product of evolution, so I can agree with you. However, I don't think you mean that, do you?
Hell, just run it past me one more time ;-)

2169. Fleabytes

Comment #150365 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 7:15 pm

....but if you want to get a message around the world....

mlf, another we question, if I may. This has never been explained to my satisfaction, maybe you can help. Why does the message need to be propagated? Indeed, why do people need to be converted (or face death/hardship) by others? After all, this is God, who created everything and everyone, knows all our thoughts etc, etc, etc - why does he need someone to spread the news? I say again, this is God we're talking about. He doesn't need people to spend millenia writing, plagiarising, copying, incorporating, etc words in a book to be read out to illiterati who have to wait a millenium or two before universal education is available so they can read the words themselves - he can just make it so. He just made the world, the animals, mankind etc, etc, so - why this need to spread a message by the notoriously unreliable medium of people?
Another point - once he did all this about Jesus - why did he send a godlet called Gabriel to tell an illiterate Arab a message, a revelation if you will, that sort of contradicts everything he said before?
Please pardon the skeptical tone to my message when it comes to revealed messages from gods - they are so very unreliable in picking messengers.

2170. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #150252 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 4:00 pm

Can you please enlighten me as to when we weren't in religious times? =P

"We have lost sincerity, morals, fidelity and attachment to our religions and to humanity," Abdullah said Monday, deploring "the disintegration of the family and the rise of atheism in the world â€" a frightening phenomenon that all religions must confront and vanquish."

Now, apparently ;-) Mind you, Gildas would have said pretty much the same around AD400-odd too.

2171. Fleabytes

Comment #150250 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 3:58 pm

I find the question of how one interprets holy writ very important.

Indeed - ask any Muslim about the Koran. Seems their every action has to be sanctioned by the writings in said book. See here, a whole section in a news publication about interpretations of a book!
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=5&d=26&m=3&y=2008&pix=islam.jpg&category=Islam

2172. Fleabytes

Comment #150246 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Some are very 'rough and ready' - eg the Greek in parts of the NT is not very sophisticated - after all it was the second language of the writers - but if you want to get a message around the world then you use the commonest trading language. In NT times this was Greek - today you'd use English.

Sooooo, not the word of God then? Hmmm... ;-)
I would have thought latin would have prevailed in the Western parts of the Roman Empire. Greek was common, yes, but the languages of Spain, France, Portugal and Italy don't seem to have been strongly influenced by Greek. But that's by-the-by. Another thing - was Christianity only meant to have been a Mediterranean religion?

2173. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150194 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Reading this and then seeing this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7304592.stm makes me feel that some people really do not deserve to have children.
I also have to ask where the religious are in these discussions? They swarm over anything when Darwin or evolution is mentioned...

2174. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #150186 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Suicide bombers of course both kill themselves and others in the name of religion

Unless they're Tamil Tigers...
Sorry, been covered before, won't mention it again! ;-D

Does this mean in the end the forces of unreason will always defeat the voices of reason?

No, why should it? Did the Islamic sxpansion from the Arabian peninsula result in the cessation of science and reason? No, quite the opposite. Did the Enlightenment not come out of religious times?

2175. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #150174 by Goldy on March 26, 2008 at 2:21 pm

She wore a headscarf. I was uncomfortable seeing her, and only after the deal was done did I consider that I might have refused to sell him the car, based on his treatment of his daughter.

Rod, you might have been surprised if you had brought it up - he himself might have said he tried talking her out of it but she insisted. Odd, I know, but there have been a few stories about it in Arab News. Quite a few commentators have said the veiling is getting out of hand, with younger and younger girls asking for the veil against their parents' wishes (the mothers generally say they didn't veil up until they were about 12 or so).
Christianity is polytheistic - plastering over the event by caliming 3 gods are but 1 doesn't quite cut it. And then there's Satan - he's not a god too? My arse he isn't!
As it is, I get the impression this isn't a dialogue of faiths as such, more a "quit picking on us" plea. I dare say the monarchy there also have their finger on the pulse of world opinion and can see the West doesn't appear to like Islam and the East sure don't either, so maybe now is a time to mend a few bridges...

2176. Are the 'New Atheists' avoiding the 'real arguments'?

Comment #149529 by Goldy on March 25, 2008 at 8:49 pm

Bonzai - yep, slightly. Got a sore eye - amazing how that affects the thinking! :-)

More people believe in the Christian God than Zeus. Does that make the Christian God more likely to be real

Didn't people believe in Zeus for longer than they believed in the Christian god (as opposed to the Jewish god, I presume). Wouldn't that make this Christian god a fad of some sort? Aren't the Hindu gods older than all other gods? Wouldn't that make them more real than the others - all others being mere evolutions of these ur-gods?

Do you have so much FAITH in free will that you cannot imagine a similarly shattering future analog?

My free will, your free will or Bonzai's free will?

2177. Are the 'New Atheists' avoiding the 'real arguments'?

Comment #149523 by Goldy on March 25, 2008 at 8:19 pm

Chinese of course do believe they have free will, without it they'll be zombies. The question of how to exercise it under a situation may be different among cultures

Well, there you are then. We know what the term means, but it doesn't always have the same answer.
Bit like Fridays, I guess. We all know what Fridays mean, unless we're in an Islamic country, in which case that's a Thursday. Fridays, for citizens of the aforementioned Islamic country, are Sundays, unless we're in Israel, when they'd be Saturday. The days are all the same, just people use them differently.
Edit - just thinking, even my use of "Chinese" can be open to interpretation. After all, there's 56 official nationalities there. Even them Tibetans, from Xizang and surrounding provinces, are Chinese. As are the Uighers, Miao, Manchu, etc, etc...

2178. Are the 'New Atheists' avoiding the 'real arguments'?

Comment #149516 by Goldy on March 25, 2008 at 7:44 pm

Aha, this thread splutters on, never quite dying, never quite getting anywhere.

"Why does it FEEL like we have free will, which might not exist, and certainly no evidence for exists?"

I'm guessing you're talking of the western concept of free will. I dare say in China it will be different - we value the free will of the individual, I think Chinese value the free will of the clan or collective more. Bonzai will be able to yay or nay this idea.
You said way back

A Wednesday is not a "thing" either, nor is feeling "sad" or even "truth" but they are concepts to which we agree on the definition and the ideas to which they are attached, whether they be arbitrary day labels, an observable but personal physiological state, or a designation for what is and what isn't.

Isn't that also what free will is? A "concept to which we agree on the definition and the ideas to which they are attached"?
I know how I see free will.I know people can argue that I don't have any in the choices I took because for one reason or other, my actions were predetermined by events around me. Some even say everything I do is preordained, either by Fate, the Muses, God, gods or any other reason, sort of illustrated in this article http://www.arabnews.com/?page=5§ion=0&article=108072&d=26&m=3&y=2008&pix=islam.jpg&category=Islam. I know what I mean by having free will, I know where free will is constrained (I can't shoot my neighbours' cats, for instance) and when someone mentions the term, I know what concept they are trying to describe. I don't need to go too deeply into the philosophy of it - if I did, I would have to question Wednesday too - after all, why is this Woden's day if Woden does not exist. Indeed, why do the Sun and the Moon have their days? Or Tiw, Thor, Freya (or Frigg) and Saturn? See my point? It is pointless, as pointless as disproving God or proving God. As it is, free will is what we strive to have for ourselves, within reason. God is thrust on us (have just had Easter. What this has to do with the Chinese population, the Muslims, Jains, Maori, etc who are not Christian is something I can't understand) whether we like it or not - it is part of the society we live in. It jars with what we are now coming to interpret free will as (why shut shops during certain days in Easter - this penalises us who do not follow God or Jesus) and why athiests, as well as other religions, are starting to use this westernised concept to further their agenda.

2179. Two More Fleas

Comment #149454 by Goldy on March 25, 2008 at 4:08 pm

This is How God created all the animals on purpose with their specific duties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycobacterium_leprae
Nice God you worship there! Strange how he made this specific bacterium and then made sure there were laws to ostracise all the sufferers...

2180. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147097 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 7:40 pm

Some sociologists actually did detail studies of attitude change regarding homosexuality in Chinese societies and found that a century of missionary penetration into China has drastically changed the attitude of many people regarding sexuality (and other things too).

Hmmm, won't tell that to the wife then. Another example of western interference! Then again, it may temper her slight homophobia....
On another note, I did chortle a bit on the "missionary penetration"... ;-D

2181. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147089 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 7:16 pm

Not only in every culture but in many species; again suggesting a genetic link.

There was a documentary on TV here in NZ fairly recently. A veritable gay fuckfest with every animal imaginable (OK, maybe not them deep sea fishes with eyes like dinner plates - forgive my exaggeration!) :-)
Strange, though, how people claim that it's an abberation that displeases their gods. Especially those God god followers. After all, he invented it. Even blaming Satan is neither here nor there because God invented Satan too - unless Satan is a god, then that mucks up the old "there is only one god" argument.

2182. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147084 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 7:06 pm

So then being gay is like having a hair colour. You can be red headed, going through blonde to brown and varying shades until you've a fine head of jet black hair.
So how is hair colour determined - and could the same mechanism not work with sexuality?

2183. Fleabytes

Comment #147073 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:34 pm

I am part German and can attest that it isn't just they that wear socks and sandals - I've seen Brits, Canadians and Americans do it too; tends to be age related!

Hmmm, maybe a German component there? Mind you, that doesn't explain Bonzai, but his dress sense sounds like our recently doctorated ex-PhD student from Hong Kong. My wife is itching to give her a makeover.... ;-D
I generally don't wear socks in the summer, but the transition times (Spring and Autumn/Fall) brings out the socked sandal. Or I wear clogs (http://www.clogs.co.uk/) - you can wear them forever without socks and they'll not smell! Amazing things!

2184. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147068 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:29 pm

Homosexual behaviour were a lot more widespread in pagan societies such as ancient Greece and ancient China. It is unlikely that they were drastically different from us genetically.

Dare say it would be now if it weren't for some people deciding it's a "sin" and trying to make people change.
Homosexuality is not that openly admitted in China now, is it? At least, that's the impression I get from my wife.

2185. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147064 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:23 pm

1) Correlation is not causation, there may be a correlation of the presence of some structure and certain behaviour but it doesn't prove one causes the other.

2) Having a "genetic component" is not the same as saying that there is a gay gene. I think the connection leading from genes to sexual behaviour is complex and convoluted, it is not like your eye colour or nose shape.

I agree - said so when I first mentioned it regarding point 1. As for the "gay gene" I dare say there's a whole heap of things that control the processes that leads to the sexuality of the person. I'm not 100% sure it is all down to just the one gene, though there may be. Might even be part of a cascade - so if you block one gene, the process stops.
But I don't know, so I'll leave it at that :-)

2186. Sci-fi guru Clarke to have secular funeral

Comment #147062 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 6:18 pm

PArt and parcel of funerals are commemoration. Here's something I thought ratehr nice...in today's Telegraph

Arthur C Clarke's orbit

Sir - One of Arthur C. Clarke's inspirations was the "synchronous geostationary orbit". Let us honour his memory by always referring to satellites as being in a "Clarke Orbit".

Rodney Witter, Chester

2187. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147007 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 4:49 pm

How do you know they are there?

Good question - the hippocampal studies might suggest there is a genetic component. As it is, the sexuality one has isn't really chosen - you are what you are, as it were, which suggests, at least to me, that there is a genetic component.

2188. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147006 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Should I say "don't produce any children" or "don't produce any child"? "Don't produce any child" seems grammatically more correct but doesn't sound right. :-)

Think the "any" implies more than one child, hence children. Don't produce a child/don't produce any children, that sort of thing.

2189. Fleabytes

Comment #146983 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 4:04 pm

yes, but the Germans also wear lederhosen. Shudder.

I believe the popularity of said apparel is more a Southern german thing. I still miss mine...wore them around the age of 5-10 - never need cleaning. Ah, well.
I'm off too - catch you all later!

2190. Fleabytes

Comment #146980 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 3:57 pm

As everyone knows, you never wear socks with sandals.

Unless you are German...then it's de riguer!

2191. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146979 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 3:54 pm

There has to be, otherwise it would not be there.

Maybe - the societal thing helps. I did put a lot of "think" and "maybe" in my piece :-) But I don't see it as, say, as important as skin colour or eye colour in the grand scheme of things. It is there in all populations (and species, I believe) and it does not affect the population growth any. Maybe I'd put it there with hairiness :-)
These are, however, my personal views.
Male nipples - good temperature sensors, great for stimulating and for hanging nipple rings on ;-) As Steve said, kinda hard to get rid of them as women actually use theirs for feeding children. Bit like those useless blanked off spaces in economy cars to remind you what you saved your money on when you didn't by the higher spec cars :-)
Right, back to the grindstone - work does get in the way. At least there's some religious festival coming up that gives me a few days off :-)

2192. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146873 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 1:57 pm

What is the evolutionary advantage of being gay? I am curious about the opinions on the matter.

Not sure there is a great evolutionary advantage - the sex drive is strong and can take over actions, as it were. I think it's more to do with the wiring in the body - we're pretty complex, after all and cannot all be the same. Hence we have very hetero people, half and half and very gay people, as well as all manner of inclinations in between.
I was watching Louise Theroux in a prison once - San Quentin, I think. He interviewed a white supremacist (I think - had just put daughter to bed and had to try and get the gist from what he was saying) who was having a relationship with a gay Jewish inmate. Outside, he was not gay. Inside, I guess we'd call him that.
I was at a boys boarding school and I have to admit quite strong urges for some of the other pupils. Once out and in a mixed society (university) I had no homosexual leanings at all - actually rather fancied girls who were adamant they didn't fancy a rather spotty youth (cursed acne!).
We all have the ability to be gay and we can all reproduce. Forcing your homosexuality underground and having children (a la the above article) probably perpetuates the stronger homosexual leanings (or not - all gays I know were from straight parents, but who knows how straight those parents were?).
As an aside, there was some study, if I can recall things correctly, about the brains of gay men being similar in structure to those of women (in the hippocampus? Tried looking it up and all I can find is something about gay men navigating as well as women - hmmm, wife is generally the navigator as I get lost easily...). Aha, I remeber them saying, see, it's biological. But as it isn't really possible to do biopsies of the brain throughout the life of the individual (hard to pinpoint gay at birth too), it's hard to say whether the the brain was born as the woman's or became as the woman's.
Either way, it's normal, natural, evolutionarily OK (doesn't really affect anything) though, as it doesn't lead to reproduction, remains as a minority.
Hope this doesn't make me sound bad!

2193. Fleabytes

Comment #146821 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 1:05 pm

The devil was at work with me then. The only thing is, if I were not a Christian I would be far, far worse

Doubt it. You'd still be the same person, athiest or believer. And there are no devils - just states of mind...and I purposely started teh sentence with "and"...I like living on the edge ;-)
Have to say with your new spelling you come across much much better. Intelligent and, well, normal.
In the funeral business, eh? I used to want to be a pathologist in my younger days. Work with students now...not much more reaction at times...

2194. Fleabytes

Comment #146318 by Goldy on March 19, 2008 at 12:02 am

I shall humbly enjoy watching you roast, along with your fellow atheist fools, from my vaunted place beside the Lord

Ooooh, a Satanist! Stands to reason - 1.6 billion people say you're condemned to hell. Lord of hell is Satan (or that other Greek god, one with Cerberus as his guard dog...).
Cool!
But...

I leave now. My task complete. I shall not return unless the Lord sends unto me another vision.

Well, how typical. Give us a taste of nothing, promises of spending eternity with some god and him (conversation will really be tiresome - thank Christ for Hell!) and now fucks off. Cheers mate!

RM

I didn't know you raised herds of Welshmen down there! How do they compare with sheep?

Not too bad. Not as wooly, but better at rugby ;-)

2195. Fleabytes

Comment #146317 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 11:58 pm

Feeling left out are we Goldy? Poor little soul awaiting the fire. Don't you see? Atheism is no shield against damnation! This is why you feel lost and need reassurance.

Damn right we wuz! That's better - now just don't leave me out again.
As for shields against damnation - we're all damned. You, me, RD, Steve, Clearthinker, that other religious dude. for every believer/unbeliever there's someone convinced we've got a one way ticket to hell. You're a-coming with us, old boy :-) One way or another, you're as fucked as we are :-D

2196. Fleabytes

Comment #146244 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 8:09 pm

Well, if I'm not worthy of a retort, then I'm not queueing. So there! You go to your place after death, I'll become a muslim and have my perpetual virgins.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Edit - I see you mention cattle fondlers. How do sheep shaggers stack up? Only saying because there is a large landmass about 3 hours flight away from where I live who engage in the practice. They even have the temerity to accuse us on this long clouded isle of indulging! Then, of course, there's the Welsh... ;-D

2197. Religious groups want Russian cartoon channel shut down

Comment #146223 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 7:37 pm

.....though they mark as being low in religion, most dont count other superstitions

Ask a mainland Chinese person what they are and I guess most will say they are athiest. But by 'eck are they superstitious!

2198. Immune system differences found

Comment #146221 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 7:35 pm

MaxD, indeed. Being in an interracial marriage, a lot of importance seems to be attached to the racial part of the marriage by some. This annoys me a bit as the cultural aspects are more divisive (if there are any arguments - me being phlegmatic to the point of comatose, I take the phrase "yes dear" to new levels :-)). And where does that leave my daughter?
That's why I'm not too enamoured with the word, though I will fully accept the concept.

2199. Immune system differences found

Comment #146201 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 6:38 pm

This is the kind of thing the BNP use to justify their racism

Dunno - thought skin colour and sexual orientation were more important to their ideology. I found out I have a mutation on my CYP2C19 gene. Doesn't really do much - I probably can't metabolise omeprazole as well as a wild type. This mutation isn't that common in Europe. Why do I bring this up? It is quite a common mutation in the Pacific islands. By bad reasoning, I must be a Pacific Islander - but I am not. So it doesn't work too well on the race thing.

Race is not the discredited idea some would like it to be

Race as a concept is OK but the thinking that it engenders has made me not fully accept it. However, having read some of Oppenheimer's books (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/science/06brits.html?scp=10&sq=british origins&st=nyt) I know there have been long periods of isolation and that these are remarkably conserved in populations even now.

2200. Fleabytes

Comment #146199 by Goldy on March 18, 2008 at 6:30 pm

More than that, I hope Goldy hasn't played with them first.

I'm still trying to find them, Brian!
Mind you, should wife know I was sort of looking, Eclair's vision will come true for me!