201. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #77140 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 2:38 pm

Steve, you have read some of my posts where I have absolutely lost it:-) Nothing mature about me at those times was there?

As for campaigning, try being the only female director on a board of old fuddy-duddies who just refuse to learn anything about governance and business in the 21st century. I lasted 3½ years. Goddamn that was frustrating. I really tried not to lose it, but, in the end, did.

That AAI thread was a pretty heated one. And I know I got cross. I am also an ameliorator. I think that things can get out of hand with all of us. Not sure about Teratornis though. He is a very studied person:-).

I sort of had a go at you as well, but I didn't lose my block. And it all panned out at the end. I hope he comes back, I enjoyed his posts and he has said some great things, like you, like me and many others. Humph, not WF:-).

Now! Did you like my book list? Can you help by adding some? Not that my list was exhaustive, I have heaps more. It's a small step I know, but, as I said we have to keep trying:-)

And I read everything your faceless avatar directs me to as well:-)

Time for a cuppa
V

202. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #77084 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 11:59 am

51. Comment #77012 by steve99

I think his exasperation hit boiling point:-). But I don't like talking for someone else.

Cheers
V

203. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #77081 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 11:55 am

Thanks for that link d4m14n. A chilling and very sad story to read. It is so easy to understand the radicalisation of Muslims since 2003. I am so full of sorrow for these people who see no other way to redress their perceived wrongs. It makes me want to weep.

I hope you read that article Nick. I stand by my statement that Bush and Cheney enabled this appalling state of affairs. Someone added Blair. You could also add Howard and every other leader who decided to join the so-called Coalition of the Willing. However the manic zeal and desire to control oil wealth and supply was spearheaded by the US; the others merely fell into line; greedy little shits that they are, hanging on the coat tails of America and Britain.

Anyone with a jot of compassion, common sense and an understanding of history was horrified by the events that emanated from Shock and Awe. The fact that Bush and Cheney have no understanding of history and religions apart from their own meant that they couldn't see the inevitable results of their actions. That does not let them off the hook.

To say to me that those actually carrying out the suicide bombings and those who train them and supply the explosives are more culpable merely begs the question. Those who set up the circumstances for this type of resistance are the ones who bear the brunt of responsibility.

Go back to Andy Thomson's figures on the incidence of suicide terrorism and look again at the escalation and when that escalation arose.

Do you honestly think Bush and Cheney are more culpable than this lot....really....honestly?

Yes

There are a couple of books worth reading. Abid Ullah Jan wrote The Ultimate Tragedy and Mark Lilla has just published The Stillborn God: Religion, Politics and the Modern West. Chalmers Johnson (a Yank) has written a trilogy, the last book being Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic. Read them and then get back to me.

Don't try to insult me with charges of lefty racism. A cheap shot and nasty throw away comment. I am far too old to feel insult.

BTW, if you are going to change and/or add to your posted comment after my reply to it, please be so good as to indicate to everyone else the fact that you edited it after posting. It's more honest.

204. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #76988 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 3:34 am

40. Comment #76753 by briancoughlanworldcitizen

Shit, I have missed you. Nice to see your revolving changing face:-)

Thank you for appreciating (if not necessarily endorsing) my rant.

I have realised that I am getting pissed off with the cappucino set. No wonder Yorker has gone. I loathe pussy footing pretend philosophy on the chaise longue.

I like Russell Blackford and don't have to agree with him - mighty fine.

The wankers trying to post pseudo-erudite comments get up my nose. There are heaps of them, my dear. I prefer people who actually do something rather than those who pontificate.

But that's me - and a lot try to take me to task. I am not subdued yet. And am unlikely to be.

Good vid, Brian. And good on you.

My best (glad to see you back)
V

205. Teachers 'fear evolution lessons'

Comment #76977 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 2:27 am

45. Comment #76973 by rationalteacher

I am so pleased to read your comment!!

You have no idea how pleased I actually am:-)

You give me hope and a smile:-)
V

206. Honest Mistakes or Willful Mendacity

Comment #76960 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 12:48 am

Northern Bright

Haven't visited this thread for ages, so was delighted to read your review. Well done!! I knew you were good:-)

Cheers
V

207. Honest Mistakes or Willful Mendacity

Comment #76959 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 12:43 am

125. Comment #76947 by The Wee Flea

One other comment to Jamerg - you wrote "Cornwell was simply totally misrepresenting things as RD's opinion (eg. Richard Dawkins thinks that any form of religion is the same as paedophilia). " That is not a misrepresentation. That is the impression that RD clearly gives in TGD and which any normal person reading it would get. Read the section entitled phyisical (sic) and mental abuse in chapter nine.

I did read and I didn't get that impression. Try again, or is that read again with a normal mind.

And with that comment, I have broken a self-imposed vow never to talk to you again. Just couldn't resist this once.

Ah well. Life's full of broken promises and history is littered with the wars which everyone knew would never happen.

I won't respond, you realise.

208. Teachers 'fear evolution lessons'

Comment #76951 by Veronique on October 8, 2007 at 12:01 am

21. Comment #76436 by Strappado

Because it is so important, silly:-). So many teachers are trained to teach to a curriculum. Over the years the topics within a curriculum (say, Science) have grown in number to such an extent that teachers barely have time to cover these increased topics, let alone in much depth.

The other problem (well, it used to be, someone can correct me) is that teachers now coming into teaching institutions to gain qualifications have been subject themselves to poor education curricula standards. This started, at least, in this country in the 1960s.

To my mind, this is an ongoing, virtually 'dumbing down' problem. It may be not so much a deliberate thing but is happening because modern education tries to cover so much in the way of teaching students facts, that it has lost the capacity to teach students how to think for themselves.

In the late 1500s, Michel de Montaigne wrote a wonderful essay called On Educating Children where he expressly advises against filling children's heads with facts. He argues that the tutor should find out what interests the child and focus on that (or those) thing(s) by teasing out how the child learns.

Of course he was talking about one tutor and one child. We are not in the same position now. I wonder, however, what we see education as these days. Often, I think it is merely a baby-sitting exercise and, at best, employment fodder training.

I can understand a lot of dvespertilio's frustration and exasperation. I too think that the standards have reduced by sending out poor messages in grading so that everyone 'passes' and that mediocrity is to be rewarded.

See, I did read your comment (oh! My eyes:-). Unfortunately the 60s and 70s peace, love and brown rice movement has quite a bit to answer for (in my view). Sorry:-).

I am interested in how you are taught to teach in the US, maybe you can tell me.

34. Comment #76660 by kaiserkriss

I heard that saying differently. Keep flying like an Eagle. Don't let the Turkeys get you down. Subtle difference, isn't there:-)? One's a plea, the other is a positive.

PsyPro The Russian educational system used to (not sure about now) finish high school at age 18 and not admit students to Uni until they were 19 (or was it 20). It reduced the first year drop out rate markedly. I thought it was smart.

39. Comment #76755 by BullShifter

Our Federal Government is trying to set a federal educational standard and curriculum and the teacher 'incentive' pay system has been mooted. I think it a bad move and hope it doesn't happen here.

See, I read your comment as well:-).

Thunder and lightening has arrived in my neck of the woods. Must go.
V

209. Teachers 'fear evolution lessons'

Comment #76928 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 8:16 pm

Hey BullShifter

Could I ask you please to paragraph your comments? That one of yours is just so difficult to read:-)

And you too please dvespertilio?

Take pity on me and others of my age with old eyes.

Thanks in advance:-)
V

210. The Squirrel Wars

Comment #76891 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 3:51 pm

Baron
Haha. Very un-PC of me wasn't it? Tradescantia is what the committee would insist on it being called:-).

Logan
Status of rabbits eh?
Gee – I go for a walk at dusk and the first rabbits I see are about 150 yards from my house. Mullum, in parts, has them by the dozen. There's a continuing problem in that pet shops sell the cute, white, fluffy little blighters, kids love them and eventually they escape and – well – breed like rabbits among the wild population:-).

Rabbit Calcivirus is used these days and it is infectious and therefore more effective. There's a web page called The Doombunny's homepage:

http://www.grendel.org/hunter/db/textual/calcivirus_lauded.html

We have a kangaroo problem as well. We have a culling scheme but everyone outside the grazing community sees them as doe-eyed beauties and, of course, unique. So there are campaigns staged by dewey-eyed city-dwelling women (mainly) to stop the culling.

They are not so much of a problem on the east coast but west of the Divide they are in plague proportions. We enable their very clever breeding regime by planting stock feed and building farm dams. They are fascinating characters. I reared a couple of orphans years ago and they were very beautiful. Mind you, I have also shot adult kangaroos for food when I lived in the bush. Ah, the bush. There's nothing quite like the Australian bush.

Now I am starting to wax lyrical:-). Come down here and check Oz out before global warming changes this country forever.

I'd love to see some of you guys here
V

211. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #76882 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 3:07 pm

41. Comment #76877 by Nick Good

Bush/Cheney are the initial and ultimate enablers. And therefore responsible.

Candidly, to me, this comes over as some kind of lefty racism...the racism, all too common on the hard left, that of low expectation. 'They can't help it', 'they don't know any better'...'they cant help themselves'.

Don't be daft - your take, not mine.Your comment smacks of superiority.
V

212. The Squirrel Wars

Comment #76879 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 2:45 pm

11. Comment #76872 by BaronOchs

I am sure your vegetation has changed over the millenia. I think that because we have only been here for a little over 200 years, the changes and damage is just so much more observable and recorded. And the introduced species were recorded and logged.

I have elected to go down the laneway that borders the side of my house every year with black plastic bags and secateurs to cut down the Madeira vine that was introduced. Not one of my neighbours does anything about it, so I have to and ensure it doesn't get into my block of land. The vine thrives in the sub tropics and has become #2 pest with wandering jew the #1 pest. Then there's Ochna - birds drop the seeds in the forests. One tough bloody plant to eradicate. And people still plant it! I feel like Teratornis, not much respect for people because of the vexing things they do:-)

Ah, darlin', don't get me started:-) I can talk about this stuff all day.

Cheers
V

213. The Squirrel Wars

Comment #76865 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm

What lovely photos Dr Benway:-)

The number of silly, ill-thought things that people do are legion. The British introduced the red fox and rabbits into Australia for sport. The damage that these animals do to Australia's native wildlife and sparse grasses is enormous.

Then there was the cane toad, introduced from South America to control pests in the sugar cane fields of Queensland. It has proved impossible to stop the spread of these loathesome creatures across the top end of Australia. They are infiltrating Western Australia, destroying the natural fauna as they go. They have spread south and are getting closer to Sydney (if not there already). They have upset the balance of snakes and we now have many more of the deadly King Brown snakes. They eat the native frogs, well – they eat anything. I kill them because the poison they spit can blind my cats. They also eat the fish fry in my creek and pond. I have no compunction about killing them. Each year we have a cane toad drive with bounties. The kids collect thousands of them. And they are still out of control.

We learnt to control the prickly pear cactus that was introduced with the First Fleet. Cactoblastis was a biological control that actually worked. A disaster weed, the pear spread all across New South Wales. The amount of legislation passed to deal with this pest was extraordinary during the 19th and 20th centuries. Now it sits high on the noxious weed list. As does lantana, introduced by British ladies as a hedge plant that is now destroying tropical rain forests. Same with the Camphor Laurel from South China. The oil from its leaves and seeds pollute our rivers and render the soil dead to native tree generation. There's a long list of noxious plants, all brought in from other countries.

There are heaps of other disasters and I am sure all of you have similar stories about your own countries. No one really understood what a fragile ecology exists in Australia and thought to colonise it with European ideas. Bad move. Very short-sighted. We still farm this country as though it were Europe. We are in dire straits.

I am starting to rant – better stop:-).

Cheers
V

I didn't bother reading all of the article. A bit too precious for my tastes:-). I got the drift without wading through the verbiage.

214. Be Good Now, Or Else

Comment #76844 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 1:06 pm

2. Comment #76839 by Northern Bright

When you consider the title of the article, Raichle's quote could certainly be construed as sinister - you know, pulled out for neuroscientific 'treatment'.

Though, I am sure the quote has been taken out of context. Well, I hope so anyway.

Cheers
V

215. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76834 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 12:28 pm

48. Comment #76821 by Corylus

It was shortly after the sperm donor died, that I read two of the spawn had taken over the running of Liberty U.

So, I think you are correct. Can't remember where I read that though. There was so much flying around in newspapers at the time:-)

Cheers
V

216. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #76749 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 2:26 am

210. Comment #76746 by greenglen

Yes, repeated exposure usually works. However you need to guard against the repeated arguments you come across unless you do the hard yards of learning why the original concepts were lacking.

Catholic indoctrination, however minimal, seems to take hold.

You have my strong support to eradicate your conditioning.

This site has a lot of posters who understand your indoctrination. Take note of them and allow them to help.

I think they are wonderful and I don't have religious indoctrination to counter:-).

Nice to see you; hope you stay. You are more than welcome:-)

Cheers
V

217. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #76748 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 2:01 am

This is probably extremely cynical of me, but forgive me, I am old:-).

If any of you really think that international justice is going to operate within Guantanamo walls (chain and razor wire fences), get over it. At least for the nonce. It will not happen.

How long did it take Australia to retrieve David Hicks? 5 years and our pollies did nothing except lick Bush's boots for those years. This fellow will spend x number of years looking over his shoulder for the assailant with a weapon. And what about his mental health? Does anyone give a flying fuck? Not on your nelly. We have a confused young man due to be released from prison who no longer trusts anyone (and he used to be an idealist). Good one, I don't think.

I am distressed that people can be held in appalling and inhuman conditions, subject to torture and deprived of any legal representation. The US attorney Michael Mori is some bloke. His defence of Hicks has soured his promotional road through the Marines.

For fuck's sake, these detainees are people, they are part of the human race; they may (or may not) have similar values to those who detain them. Have you seen the videos of these people in that hell-hole? Did you see the videos of these people smeared in their own (and others) excrement; their genitals exposed and vulnerable; cigarette burns etched into their skin? These atrocities were executed by the US army and marine regulars and FILMED.

And you want to sit here and have a philosophical chat/debate in your lounge room about the rightness of holding political prisoners in Guantanamo… while you have a drink?

You give me the shits, all of you. You haven't even got the balls to warrant a wank.

Simply inventing a legal system by fiat, and then applying it to anyone you choose, will no longer wash in a in a connected global world. According to Bush he can arrest and imprison you, or me or anyone for no reason whatever. That at root is what is endorsed by the casual acceptance of gitmo. Hence I have "issues" even if they are now wildly off topic

Thank you Brian. Wonderful to hear from you again:-).

We haven't come far in 10,000 odd years if you ask me (and, of course, you won't. I am not referring to you Brian:-)).

I am fucked off with petulant, precious fucking bullshit. You guys need to get a life. For god's sake read Henry Vth and understand what Thomson is actually saying. Stop doing the cherry picking that you accuse all religites of doing.

Ha - Yorker's not here, so I feel the need to take up a double cudgel. I bounce well and will survive.
V

218. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76740 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 12:57 am

43. Comment #76736 by Zeratul

Love it:-) How exciting and visually interesting:-)

V

219. Teachers 'fear evolution lessons'

Comment #76739 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 12:49 am

37. Comment #76733 by PsyPro

Hey Prof., you haven't answered my initial question. And, unfortunately, I don't know enough about the Canadian system of education from kindergarten through to high school leaving age and educational standards.

Are those who finish high school granted access to University depending on their grades and availability of faculty placements? What sort of choice do University entrants have in their choice of study regimes?

You will have to inform me.

Cheers
V

220. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #76732 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 12:22 am

I just want to re-post a comment I made on another thread. Apologies to CHeard, however you know how I think about religion and delusion:-)

No one seems to notice that all three Abrahamic religions relate to, what Sagan would call, a tiny corner of this blue dot. No one seems to understand that homo sapiens had traversed the planet long before the days of the OT.

South America was populated by tribes with different religious superstitions. North America was peopled with even more different superstitions. Australia has been populated by aborigines for maybe 40,000 years. Europe had well developed populations with yet more religious myths.

Why is it that no one seems to recognise that the big three are just other sets of religious myths? And plagiarisms to boot. Billy quotes Justin Martyr earlier on this thread. He (Justin) knew that Christianity was a hodge-podge and to facilitate acceptance amongst the worshippers of the 'old' religions, bits and pieces were brought into biblical teachings from those old religions. Mohammed was influenced by Judaism and Christianity as well.

How is it that believers in the big three slough off the fact that their religions (while arguably the biggest head count in the world) are but three of many? Why do they insist that their particular religious instruction manual is the correct and only one? That all others are incorrect?

'Tis flummoxing, don't you think:-). Very narrow vision and a mental dissonance is required to discount everything except that tiny corner of this blue dot:-).

I cannot take any of the believers seriously. Not the average believer, the educated believer, the un-educated believer, the clever theologian, the scientist believer, the philosopher believer…

Hell's teeth, if it is so easy for people like Philip1978 (he thinks he's not bright in this area) and me (I know very little, like Philip), why is it so hard for others to engage common sense? Neither Philip nor I has much scientific knowledge training, although we are trying:-). So is Corylus:-).

McGrath is the one that amazes me more than most 'I used to be an atheist but…' types.

No wonder so many people refer to religious belief (of all persuasions) as mental disease. Did you listen to Andy Thomson's lecture on suicidal terrorism? That helped me a bit more to understand what goes on in the religious mindset.

Tell me Chris, did you listen to Andy Thomsons lecture? I would be interested in your take on this.

I have to say, I am not the slightest bit interested in brother john' opinion. But yours? Who knows? You may have something interesting to say (oh, Philip1978, the 'interesting' meme has certainly replicated over this site:-).

I am far less interested in the minutiae of theological argumentation on specifics, as I am in the basic argument for belief in an unseen, unevidenced and hidden god. That premise is what halts me right at the beginning. I cannot get past it.

It's a basic question and I would like to see it addressed without prevarication and slippy, slidey, sideways obfuscation. Can you oblige, please?

Cheers
V

221. Teachers 'fear evolution lessons'

Comment #76729 by Veronique on October 7, 2007 at 12:06 am

35. Comment #76726 by PsyPro

Haha. Nice one Prof:-). Is your discipline psychology?

Don't be too judgmental about this site. It's a free-for-all rather than a set of considered essays with referenced material:-).

I think our concern has to do with the ridiculous notion of teaching the threadbare 'creationism' and its tuxedoed bastard cousin 'ID' in science classes rather than where it belongs (if at all) in RE.

I have seen a number of this type of article and visit the threads rarely these days. Having said that, I appreciate your comment here.

You are doing a commendable job by ruling out the 'I think' and 'I believe' arguments. However the teaching of critical thinking would stop those arguments in their tracks if only it were taught to students at high school.

That's what is worth putting in any spare time you may have available.

Cheers
V

222. The Sacrifice of Reason

Comment #76722 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 11:20 pm

Thank you both Kyliesturgess and critica for your comments.

I, like you both, hope that posters here take up your links and actually run with CT as affirmative action. I certainly will.

dlitt see what your comment to me has spawned. You should be very pleased:-)

I hope you two have the time to hang around here and make comments on other articles posted on this site.

I can assure you both that you will enjoy Teratornis's comments on various issues. He makes some very interesting posts and has come to CT by a possibly tortuous route. There are other posters whose comments are always well worth reading (and replying to).

Please enjoy this site. It has become one of my (and others) addictions.

Cheers
V

223. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76711 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 9:13 pm

39. Comment #76682 by scottishgeologist

Well SG, I am relieved. I emailed Josh anyway:-)

Yes, I read about dear Juanita and her perfect partner.

Of course they are scandal prone, my dear. I am sure that notwithstanding my previous comments about them being scammers, they fall into the trap of believing their own advertising.

It appears to me that as they become more wealthy, as their congregations tithe more and they dip into the takings more, they come to believe that they are bullet-proof and indestructible (same thing, I know, I just like the words:-)).

Even if someone could 'keep the bastards honest' (that has a particular political flavour in Australia, probably lost on you, but you get my drift), I would be unsure that they would slide back into the woodwork.

People like this seem to need to have public accolade; need to be fawned over, held in high esteem yadayada. They are very sick little bunnies and shouldn't (there's that word again that I say I never use:-)) be let within a ten foot pole, with gloves on, of ordinary people.

They either have or develop dominant personalities that sucker in the hoi poloi and strip them of cash. They need to have a following. They are psychiatrically disturbed people.

As Carlin says, quite beautifully, god needs money!! He always needs money!! Just can't handle money!!

You can tell that I have watched Carlin a bit. He always cheers me up:-)

I haven't yet made up my mind as to whether Richard Morgan's new avatar is cheering. She certainly has beautiful and very large knockers:-). But wait 'til she reaches my age and those gorgeous boobs form part of her waistline measurement. And the rest of her skin drops towards her ankles as gravity exerts its pull.

Ah, I am glad I got to 64 first:-)
V

And yes Baron and J, thanks it was Kent Hovind. I listened to some of his taped messages from his gaol on RRS. Sapient had quite a bit to do with exposing Hovind and son to the public at large. Good on him!!

224. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #76701 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 7:30 pm

I am watching Paradise Now and had to take a break from it for a bit. I am seeing some of the things that Thomson remarked on. It is a frightening film (at least for me. I don't watch movies very much. And violent ones make my heart beat faster than it reasonably should be expected to on a Sunday morning. Syriana is next. Christ! What am I putting myself through:-).

One small point about Bush/Cheney and history which they clearly don't read. The British considered Iraq un-governable and pulled out in 1932. A pity Bush/Cheney didn't read that the British mandate collapsed and that Iraq was granted independence.

They, both of them, are responsible more than anyone else for the massive rise in suicide terrorism that is engulfing the Middle East. They have to accept this responsibility for their actions.

Dr Benway said a few threads back, and I am sort of paraphrasing because he was referring to religion, People ought to feel responsible for the ideologies or political platforms of their organisation's stated values and objectives.

OK, got that off my chest. Back to Paradise Now
V

225. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #76691 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 6:04 pm

1560. Comment #76240 by LeeC

I don't visit this thread much because it is all god based:-).

Your questions in your comment are the things that I have mentioned on one or two of these threads before – the Leprechology one in particular re: revcort.

No one seems to notice that all three Abrahamic religions relate to, what Sagan would call, a tiny corner of this blue dot. No one seems to understand that homo sapiens had traversed the planet long before the days of the OT.

South America was populated by tribes with different religious superstitions. North America was peopled with even more different superstitions. Australia has been populated by aborigines for maybe 40,000 years. Europe had well developed populations with yet more religious myths.

Why is it that no one seems to recognise that the big three are just other sets of religious myths? And plagiarisms to boot. Billy quotes Justin Martyr earlier on this thread. He (Justin) knew that Christianity was a hodge-podge and to facilitate acceptance amongst the worshippers of the 'old' religions, bits and pieces were brought into biblical teachings from those old religions. Mohammed was influenced by Judaism and Christianity as well.

How is it that believers in the big three slough off the fact that their religions (while arguably the biggest head count in the world) are but three of many? Why do they insist that their particular religious instruction manual is the correct and only one? That all others are incorrect?

'Tis flummoxing, don't you think:-). Very narrow vision and a mental dissonance is required to discount everything except that tiny corner of this blue dot:-).

I cannot take any of the believers seriously. Not the average believer, the educated believer, the un-educated believer, the clever theologian, the scientist believer, the philosopher believer…

Hell's teeth, if it is so easy for people like Philip1978 (he thinks he's not bright in this area) and me (I know very little, like Philip), why is it so hard for others to engage common sense? Neither Philip nor I has much scientific knowledge training, although we are trying:-). So is Corylus:-).

McGrath is the one that amazes me more than most 'I used to be an atheist but…' types.

No wonder so many people refer to religious belief (of all persuasions) as mental disease. Did you listen to Andy Thomson's lecture on suicidal terrorism? That helped me a bit more to understand what goes on in the religious mindset.

And now I will join everyone in a cup of Assam:-).
V

226. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #76677 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 4:30 pm

6. Comment #76598 by MacPrince

Thank you for that link. It worked:-).

I agree that Lionel's voice was very grating but he asked decent questions and used language well. A great change from most of these presenters. He was quickly appreciative of RD's little jokes and explanations. Again, more than I have come to expect from RD's interviewers.

It didn't finish though, did it? It was cut short:-)

Good one
V

227. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76659 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 3:49 pm

mother2eight

Just as well you didn't read the comment threads here and all over the world when Jerry Falwell died. You would have been more than appalled.

These people are parasites on the vulnerable and gullible. More and more of them are being shown up for what they are. They are cynical con-men with vapid wives who dip their varnish-nailed fingers into the collection plate. It's usually called stealing.

There's another one of these men (can't recall his name) who is languishing in gaol because he defrauded the IRS of tens of thousands of tax dollars.

These types of people are immoral; some (if not most) of them are amoral. They deserve exactly what they get at the hands of the law of the land.

Most posters here are relieved that, one by one, these fraudsters are being exposed and removed from their sphere of influence over the hearts and minds of children and adults. That's all.

You want to see the biggest send-up of all? Watch George Carlin on youtube - his skit on religion is something that everyone here can relate to.

Cheers
V

228. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76651 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 3:28 pm

23. Comment #76491 by scottishgeologist

Does sound a bit that way doesn't it:-). I vaguely recognised something as I was typing it.

The worrying thing is that this behaviour is about 5-6 weeks earlier than usual. They are racing up and down the creek, not interested in food. They are all of a frenzy:-). The males didn't lose their '5 o'clock shadow' (sexually active signature) from their cheeks and pectoral fins at all this year.

Another thing is that all the spring flowering bulbs have flowered already and are staring to die down. The winds didn't arrive in August. We have temperatures ranging between 29 – 32ºC and not much spring rain. We are in for a long, very hot and dry summer. Mullum is in the sub-tropics and, although we normally get some rain every month, summer rain is what flushes out the creeks and rivers and replenishes the ground water.

It's dire here SG. There is virtually no rain out west and farmer suicides are increasing. The government is offering drought relief, but that's just helping to shore up marginal farming land. It's not a long-term solution. There won't be any water allocations from the Murray River this season. Relocation and re-training can help, but, like all counties, we are reliant on our agriculture to actually live. There's talk of shifting our agricultural sector up north into the tropical lands that receive more rain and have permanent rivers. Of course, the sorts of crops that will grow in the tropics are different from those that grow in the Mediterranean climates further south.

I guess I'll get a serve from the climate deniers if they read this:-). Sorry to go OT like this.

And earlier on I fed a troll. Tut, tut, smacks wrist:-)

I just cannot believe that any parent would call a child Oral, can you? Bizarre. Ah well, at least another one bites the dust. That's a lyric too isn't it? Haha. I am becoming a cliché in my own breakfast time:-).

Cheers
V

Edit – oh SG I clicked the offensive tab by mistake. Please forgive me. I don't know how to fix it. I have never done that before. Shit. I'll contact Josh:-(. Oh dear.

229. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #76633 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 1:52 pm

139. Comment #76546 by garp

And a great chuckle it was. The comment thread was sort of interesting. The best was some bloke asking whether the canons had to be registered with the Federal Gun Registry. LOL

Thanks for the link. Thoroughly enjoyable.

Cheers
V

230. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #76470 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 12:43 am

97. Comment #76431 by blackhaw

It would help if you could write a coherent comment.

Why to you refer to Lennox as Dr. Lennox and Dawkins and Hitchens without their titles? Your bias started to show here. Your hasty posting leads you to even un-capitalise the first letter of Dawkins' name. Why is this?

You also capitalise the first letter of Christian but fail to do so with Atheist. Why is this?

May I offer to you the SOD definition of 'fundamentalism'.

Fundamentalism. 1923. Strict adherence to traditional orthodox tenets (e.g. the literal inerrancy of Scripture) held to be fundamental to the Christian faith: opposed to liberalism and modernism. Hence Fundamentalist, an adherent of f.

As you undoubtedly realise the SOD brings out a revised edition every ten years or so and incorporates the current nuanced, additional and changed meanings of words that we use daily to communicate in a common language.

I have posted on these threads previously (as has virtually everyone else) that atheism is non-belief in supernatural entities and therefore doesn't not come under the aegis of fundamentalism.

Please post again and be a little more considered with your use of language and, ahem, spelling and grammar. A little logic wouldn't go astray.

If this sounds pompous and like an English teacher's criticisms, then believe me, it is.

Grade C+
V

231. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #76462 by Veronique on October 6, 2007 at 12:21 am

25. Comment #76088 by Teratornis

By Zeus, you're a wordy bugger:-). I have never read a short, succinct post from you:-). I think you must be a very serious person.

Loved this post of yours though:-). At least, I now understand what you have had to put yourself through in learning properly how to hatch the successful escape route:-). You make some very cogent points. Thanks.

53. Comment #76190 by Corylus

I had never seen the two Ronnies on this. Great video and very cleverly put together:-). That sort of thing takes heaps of time and lots of wine.

70. Comment #76248 by captain underpants

Thanks for that. I haven't listened to this 'debate' because I couldn't get anything to work and after reading the comments thus far, I was uncertain as to whether I wanted to bother. You have made my mind up for me. Thank you:-).

76. Comment #76280 by Teratornis

Ooh, done it again I see. Good one:-). I have to say I am a smoker hides head and runs into the corner to hide dissonance. On the other hand, I never got caught in the religion paradigm:-). There's hope for me.

I have to stop here to read further. I have just come across Styrer. Golly, gosh. OK. Will post later maybe.

Cheers
V

232. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76443 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 10:48 pm

13. Comment #76424 by thompjs

Did you mean Carlton Pearson? He's listed as a graduate from ORU.

So is Ted Haggard!!

Cheers
V

233. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #76423 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 7:52 pm

199. Comment #76398 by Richard Morgan

You know, I thought you were joking when you mentioned your English language training slipping away after 25 years in France.

I am only now seeing how you may be correct.

Noun - I am an atheist. Not a problem. It is self descriptive although listeners will interpret that word through their own mental filters and/or prejudices.

Adjectival use - I am atheistic in the way I view the world and its origins/my world view/my outlook on life etc.

The SOD also says of atheistic as an adjective:

Atheistical – a. of or befitting an atheist; involving atheism; of the nature of an atheist, godless impious. Atheistically adv. Atheisticalness. Obs

Yes, I do see. I think your description of the noun as in-your-face is quite correct. It is milder to use atheistic as an adjectival description of oneself and one's views. Your misunderstanding came from trying to use the same word for both.

And thank you for the link Tyler James. PZ Myers is a very clear headed man and good communicator. I should visit his site more often and I certainly should have realised he would have something to say about SH's speech at AAI.

Love you Richard Morgan:-) Sorry I didn't see your fraught comment until just now.

Cheers
V

234. 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' Religious Group Turning Heads at MSU

Comment #76399 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 5:48 pm

14. Comment #76333 by prettygoodformonkeys

Hahaha. Love it.

Nicely done; I am appreciative:-).

Cheers
V

235. Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

Comment #76379 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 4:42 pm

ThePuckishOne Welcome, you lurker you:-).

I reckon all these guys looked at what could be achieved by tracking the exploits of Mormonism and Scientology and rubbed their hands with glee.

The more of these fellows (and their wives) who are rumbled legally, the better. As far as I am concerned, the more airplay their appallingly selfish and grubby behaviour gets, the more chance this house of evangelical cards will topple.

Good to see students leaving to protect their educational credibility.

All is good:-).
Beautiful morning in Mullum and the goldfish are frisky
V

236. Norway flourishes as secular nation

Comment #76372 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 4:22 pm

26. Comment #76360 by Johnny O

At best we can show this as an example that Religion is not in any way needed when it comes to government and that it does not lead a country into moral decline.

Nicely said and agreed. It's the separation of belief systems and government policy that is important. And a titular, as distinct from real, religion seems to work better and possibly, by and large performs the role mentioned by hcholm.

Cheers
V

237. Norway flourishes as secular nation

Comment #76370 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 4:02 pm

4. Comment #76105 by tieInterceptor

I just had a look at some of the comments, only the front page, though. I see that the commenters are getting into a debate about morality.

Let's hope it doesn't wind up with the thousands of comments that defined the McGrath thread here:-). Though I suppose the newspaper will close the comment thread before the debate fizzles out.

24. Comment #76343 by hcholm

Thanks for your comment:-).

It is an interesting theory that the widespread atheism in fact could be a result of having a state religion. In principle, I'm strongly against both monarchy and state religion, but perhaps monarchy and state religion are the safest ways of channeling and controlling certain irrational and potentionally dangerous genetically inherited dispositions in humans?

Interesting theory indeed. The 1814 Constitution deeming a state religion would have had little actual weight and could have been an apologist sop, I suppose. I would think that the watered down version of religion as she is practised in Europe has as much to do with the bitter religious wars that were fought. I don't think (but would love your take on it) that the passion for religion ever really recovered. Europe ended up with little heart for more war.

Cheers
V

238. Norway flourishes as secular nation

Comment #76244 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 7:54 am

You won't stir this one up fides. We are awake to trolls. I guessed one of you guys would turn up on this thread.

Why don't you just go away, there's a good chap. Some of us are becoming irritated with the religious teasers that you guys post on here in the hope of sucking other posters into replying. We realise you throw these little lines in so that you can hijack these threads.

It is called trolling and we have seen you all before.

Have a cup of tea and a lie down. Read a good book
V

239. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #76200 by Veronique on October 5, 2007 at 3:22 am

Mark Taunton

I suggest you listen to Andy Thompson with his lecture on suicide terrorism. You will find the lecture on the home page.

He makes a good case for the proposition that religion, as a human cultural construct, is carefully constructed so that it hijacks human brains and their evolved behaviour patterns that advantage human society.

I promise you, this is an interesting lecture. It is worth your time. I am going to write a synopsis of it. The lecture certainly tweaked some of my concepts. I hope it will tweak yours.

Cheers
V

240. Christianity's Image Problem

Comment #76156 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 11:19 pm

Crazymalc

Were you the one who posted the link to that list of destructions carried out on Buddhist religious and cultural treasures? That horrified me.

And you are right, this is new. The whole bloody world is going mad.

I got my drink:-)
V

241. Christianity's Image Problem

Comment #76155 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 11:13 pm

Oh Bonzai

OMG. This is so bizarre. Thank you for this link - I nearly had a heart attack. My mouth dropped to the floor.

Oh dear, oh dear. 400,000 Muslims in Texas.

Got to get a drink
V

242. We Few, We Happy Few, We Band of Brothers

Comment #76148 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 10:42 pm

What a fascinating lecture from Thompson. I was riveted. I wrote down quite a lot while he was talking, and a couple of things stood out:

He spoke of the cognitive 'software' needed for apes etc to plan and successfully executive lethal raids on neighbouring more vulnerable others.

It reminds me a bit of Paul Davies' thesis of the concomitant 'evolution' of the hardware of the universe and the software of the natural physical laws. Essential components of the whole.

I started thinking of the brain as the hardware and cognition and the functions of mind as the software. Both evolving in tandem. Very neat. (Come on, pull it apart, please:-)).

He also brings us down to earth with his thesis of male bonded coalitionary violence that can be demonstrated to be older than before we and the chimps split off from our common ancestor.

I liked his neat way of arguing that religions are carefully constructed so that they hijack our cognitive mechanisms by decoupling cognition, redirecting reciprocal altruism and kin loyalities by erecting pseudo loyalties.

What a marvellous talk. Thanks Josh for posting it. You do very well by us here in the boondocks who can't get to events like these:-).

With gratitude
V

243. Christianity's Image Problem

Comment #76093 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 5:21 pm

All good news. I wonder if as the stats started to change, it in part accounted for the upsurge in fundamental Christianity in the US?

I agree, there appears to be more hope than I had thought. I guess I hope that Christianity continues to have an image problem:-). The change will be so much faster.

Ah, the death throes of the dangerous meme. What a lovely sustaining thought:-)

Can't sit on laurels yet though:-).
V

244. Norway flourishes as secular nation

Comment #76085 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 4:35 pm

And what has secularism done to Norway? The Global Peace Index rates Norway the most peaceful country in the world. The Human Development Index, a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standard of living, has ranked Norway No. 1 every year for the last five years.

Norway has the second highest GDP per capita in the world, an unemployment rate below 2 percent, and average hourly wages among the world's highest.

Well then, maybe we should send this little quote to all our pollies together with a plea to resist any religiously-based legislation. I think I might just do that as we have a federal election looming.

I hope that Norway has a decent immigration policy:-). As the nutters infiltrate more and more into governments and public service areas, there may be an influx of would-be immigrants into Norway as we turn our backs on our countries of birth:-).

Good morning all
V

245. The Sacrifice of Reason

Comment #76072 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 3:24 pm

110. Comment #75987 by kyliesturgess

Thank you very much. I have received your PM:-) Hope to see you in November.

109. Comment #68030 by DingoDave

I know – it's just that for the first time in our history, we have the capacity to blow ourselves up:-). And we have this wonderful tool, the internet, that can misinform as well as inform.

Kids need critical thinking tools much more quickly these days (I think). With so much bullshit 'science' around especially in the health area, it has become dangerous. We had eradicted small pox, diphtheria, whooping cough, and other diseases. Because of the rubbish put around about vaccinations, we have parents refusing to vaccinate their babies. So these diseases are on the rise again – in developed countries!!

Very frightening. I'll keep my chin up, but I just can't sit still:-).

Cheers
V

246. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75955 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 6:30 am

158. Comment #75925 by mmurray

Susan Blackmore

how the brain behaves when you deprive it of oxygen.

Maybe sleep apnoea could be a contributing factor to hallucinatory events. However my brother suffers from sleep apnoea and he has not reported any hallucinatory events. Mind you, I have never asked him. I certainly will, in November, when I go to Perth and stay with him.

I don't know that it's merely oxygen deprivation that produces these hallucinatory effects. It maybe part of it but I suspect it's more complex (I know; Occam's razor notwithstanding).

That's all I can really say at the moment. I DON'T KNOW. Let's keep this thread alive while these discussions continue.

It is truly fascinating.

Cheers
V

247. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75938 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 5:55 am

157. Comment #75923 by Richard Morgan

No wonder people don't understand your humour and cynicism. Which wife was that? We both number a few partners, don't we:-). You really are a crack-up, my dear (the card hasn't arrived, so your earlier observation was correct. Mine made it – an aberration:-)) That's life in a post office. Do you think that postal workers try to fit themselves into those little boxes with their duvets overnight?

Sorry, silly, I know. This is a very interesting subject nonetheless. I don't know that I will ever get any closer to understanding it than your French joke:-).

And now, to be serious, what happened in your NDE episode/experience?

156. Comment #75922 by AnthonyH

Hi, haven't met you before. Yes, I am interested in some sort of explanation. If there isn't a satisfactory one, then I don't have a problem. I'll just wait for the neuroscientists to work it out. If they can!!

I could never put woo woo explanations on this type of phenomena. I just find it interesting that it happens. I was fascinated to read a book entitled The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat by Oliver Sacks. Sacks related many of the more extraordinary patients with whom he had extended contact. It's an old book, 1970 publication date. It still poses questions we ask today.

Have you read this book? Wonderful stuff, let me tell you:-). I really recommend it as a read. Unfortunately it doesn't help me understand and Sacks himself said that he didn't understand much. He was also full of fascination for the delusions and mental capacities of his patients. How do you explain idiot savants? There's another one that eludes most (all) of us. Immediate prime number extensions to the nth degree, in a flash? Fibonacci number sequence recognition to the nth degree, in the flash of an eye? It boggles my mind. It also apparently boggles Sacks' mind. And, probably others. I am sure that this has helped propel Harris into neuroscience as his PhD. I will also be very interested in what he has to say on these matters. He's a smart bloke.

The brain is an amazing organ (a piece of chemically organised and electrically-charged meat?). I don't think we are even close to understanding how it functions. Small inroads:-). Plod, plod, plod. That's all we can do.

Wonderfully interesting research. I hope 'they' come up with some explanation that 'we' can understand.

Cheers
V

Edit Thanks Richard, I still blame the postal unions on this:-) Humph.

Edit2 thanks mm sorry, that makes you sound like a chocolate treat:-) and maybe you are. I haven't read your post yet. Will get back to you.

V

248. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75918 by Veronique on October 4, 2007 at 4:25 am

145. Comment #75904 by mmurray

I don't think … you have to buy into the whole enlightenment and guru thing or the buddhist idea that mind is some kind of entity separate from matter.

I would appreciate some rebuttal arguments about this. I have come across a 30ish woman who claims to have 'seen' things that are not 'there' for most of her life. She related to me some instances in her life regarding this phenomenon.

I responded with an unclear understanding of chemical reactions and electrical discharge within the brain. She then replied (as did her partner) that the brain may well be the seat of perception (of this kind) but that didn't explain why we think and perceive as we do. She and he, were saying that the mind is a separate entity from the brain (matter); that that sort of energy was different from the energy that propels our physicality.

There's another woman (in her 50s, I would guess) who said she has always been called a witch. She is convinced that she astral travels during her sleep. She told me she wakes up utterly exhausted, but convinced of her 'journeys'.

I have a memory of 'seeing' myself asleep in bed next to my then partner. I 'saw' myself and him from what I thought was the ceiling of the bedroom. I remember the bedside clock pointed at 1:17am. This was in Perth and, at that time, the streetlights were extinguished at 1:15am. Yet the room appeared bright. I can't tell you for how long this 'thing' happened.

I have never been able to explain just what was going on and I have never tried to put it into any particular context. I am perfectly happy to not have a rational explanation. I am not about to attempt to fit it into some BS theory like Shirley MacLean did. But can you put any light on these things?

BTW, do you live in northern NSW? There is a Michael Murray not far from me. Wild assumption:-) please put it at rest for me:-). Either here or on a pm to me:-)

Cheers
V

249. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75874 by Veronique on October 3, 2007 at 11:42 pm

131. Comment #75857 by BAEOZ

Thanks for the link. So long as this country and its judges never allow religion to be a defence, then we have some hope:-). And shit, we need some hope:-).

As an aside, does anyone know how many Pacific islanders have been relocated as yet? I know of a couple of islands (the names escape me) whose populations have been relocated to that dramatically, already over-populated set of islands that make up Indonesia.

I suspect The Maldives won't be that far behind. The 2004 tsunami made me aware of their potential problems. And what happens when the inhabitants of the Netherlands can no longer keeps their fingers in the dykes?

I fear we are in for one very rough ride. And I make no apologies for saying this. If it is reasonably apparent to a 64 year old living in Australia, surely it must be apparent to others?

Sorry BAEOZ:-) I am still caught up in the last couple of comments I made. Nothing to do with you really:-). Someone called me obsessive yesterday – maybe I should think about how I focus:-).
V

250. The Problem with Atheism

Comment #75862 by Veronique on October 3, 2007 at 10:56 pm

129. Comment #75848 by Bonzai

You say you are from Australia, but what you describe sounds like you live in a Muslim country or the deepest enclave in the American bible belt.

I may be wrong but it certainly doesn't sound like the Australia I heard about from friends and acquaintances (Actually the most negative thing I heard about Australia is its widespread racism especially against Asians, not that it is on the verge of becoming a theocracy)

Ah, Bonzai, you have taken my comments as referring only to Australia. Maybe I should do as Brian Coughlin did – refer to myself as a world citizen. Sorry. My mistake for not clarifying that I was talking about a global trend, your neighbour the US being very determined in this. The unified enemy is on the march. It's called unreason, biblical literalness and their proponents' growing successfulness at infiltrating government and the public service.

Russell lives in Australia, Jack in the US and Yorker in Scotland. There are pushes for theocratic rule of varying intensities in all western countries. Unfortunately it is becoming a war. And it's hotting up.

As peoples are dislocated and have to relocate into countries that can house them as global warming and climate change (particularly ocean level rise) impact more and more on people's lives, we will see clashes. Location change and religious and cultural beliefs will test our tolerance of each other further.

I fear it is very fraught.

mmurray has addressed Australian racist tendencies, so I don't need to. All I can say is that I agree with him that 10-11 years of conservative rule has not improved this country and I am concerned at the public disclosure of religious belief by our pollies. I haven't seen anything like this before in this country. So, yes, I am worried and I am worried about this global trend.

Oz is the best place I can think of living in (at the moment:-)).

Cheers
V