251. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #264787 by hawt4dawk on October 15, 2008 at 8:11 am

Al - Agreed. I think the last two links I provided were looking at the roots rape has in society in peace time as well. Rape is a crime either way, but I think one of the concerns about wartime rape is that men who would not ordinarily commit crimes in peacetime may do so during the insanity of war due to... I don't know... stress hormones causing bad judgment, peer pressure, emotional pressures, in-group/out-group activation, etc.

Also, in Vietnam, for instance, drug use was rampant and it could be argued that a fair number of young men did drugs out of peer pressure that would not have done drugs otherwise. Of course, I'm speculating on that, because I haven't researched that at all.

But the military training and band identification in a battle setting is a pretty strong glue. One ceases to be as "individual" and maybe, in a way, one doesn't feel as culpable as an individual in that setting -- at least subjectively. That may play a part in crimes committed in wartime by people who would not otherwise act that way.

252. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #264778 by hawt4dawk on October 15, 2008 at 8:05 am

This is one of the reasons why I have had to withdraw from this thread for awhile. This is the ugliest behavior I've ever seen out of my contemporaries in the U.S. (outside of a few family dinners). :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHrExRHZnm0

Also, this video is about John McCain's temper and self-control issues for those who are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF1g

253. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #264760 by hawt4dawk on October 15, 2008 at 7:42 am

Tez -

Here are three resources on wartime rape, which I found. The first one actually compares some actual rape statistics and how the same subject is portrayed in American film and the second is about rape as a general part of war. edit: the third is an abstract of an article that might cost $, but give you some inkling of the psychology and criminology studies that have been conducted on the topic.

http://www2.iath.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Texts/Scholarly/Stuldreher_Rape.html

http://condor.depaul.edu/~rrotenbe/aeer/aeer13_1/Olujic.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VH7-4CJ3MY3-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=0f61861f3b169f2258b4d58aa069f6bf

254. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262661 by hawt4dawk on October 9, 2008 at 7:51 am

Bonzai -- Let me qualify that my reference to Chavez in this discussion is limited to his explicitly-stated negative views of America, which is why it was smear-handy for someone to mention him in the same breath with Obama.

edited

255. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #262639 by hawt4dawk on October 9, 2008 at 7:01 am

Regarding the smear campaign appearing here in this thread, in which Obama is falsely being linked to radicals, terrorists, and now being put into the same class as Putin and Chavez, please see below.


Here's what actually happened:

Obama reported the fact that a major McCain donor also solely funded the "Swiftboat" smear ad against Obama to the Federal Elections Committee, because it is against federal law.

Regarding media reporting of the issue:

CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the non-profit projects in which the two men were involved.[44] Internal reviews by The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, The Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic "have said that their reporting doesn't support the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship"

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/082408dnpolobamaad.69811d3.html

A Dallas billionaire who helped bankroll the Swift Boat Veterans attack on John Kerry is the sole funder of a new television ad linking Barack Obama to a 1960s radical antiwar group.

Harold Simmons gave $2.88 million to the American Issues Project, which is using the money to air the ad, according to Federal Election Committee filings.

Under federal law, it's illegal for independent groups to coordinate with political candidates. Mr. Pinkston said there was no contact between his group, which was founded by a former McCain consultant, and the McCain campaign.

Mr. Simmons, an investor who heads the corporate holding company Contran, is one of the most prolific political donors in the country. He was among President Bush's largest campaign contributors and has given millions of dollars to candidates and groups aligned with the GOP.

256. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261893 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 3:28 pm

PM for you in a moment Christopher Davis

257. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261720 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 9:08 am

Sev - That's happened to me so many times. I've finally trained myself to copy & paste before I submit, but I lost loads of carefully constructed stuff before.

I am feeling pretty annoyed, not at you particularly, but in general, at being miscontrued because I placed the comma wrong so that it looked like I was suggesting that all conservatives are haters and then I get criticized for it, despite all the stuff I've said in other posts about how I don't hate Republicans and how I think it's a shame there is so much animosity, etc., etc.. I've consistently said that kind of thing from thread to thread, too.


I am depressed and annoyed with the kind of posting on this site where I get attacked after I've taken pains to be fair, to argue well and to back up my claims. Yet I have to listen to b&W arguments from hateful people and then see those people defended and myself attacked when I complain about all the America-hater rhetoric, which I see as being pointedly destructive to discourse about two wars my nation is fighting.


This is pretty much a waste of my time. If anyone wants to contact me, they can send a PM.

258. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261698 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 8:28 am

Sev - fair enough.

259. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261666 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:48 am

I have to take my husband to work now. I'll be back later.

260. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261663 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:45 am

DP

your quote:

you guys hate republicans just as much as I hate democrats and these whining, complaining childlike liberals who replaced god with government.

261. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261659 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:42 am

Al -- your comments about liberals showed up in the context of your defense of a conservative guy who hates Democrats. Yeah, so I assumed it was typical liberal-hating, the kind that disrupts holiday dinners at my family's house. Plus I said "right wing and Christian right wing sites". I made the distinction. I also did a fair bit of reading from neocon sites, too. I don't think you're being fair to me, because you are assuming I've been unfair to you. I just asked you to clarify your comments so I could understand them.

262. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261650 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:32 am

It was Orwell's 'Animal Farm'. It was the dogmatism that was demanded of the animals. Meaning Liberal good, conservative bad. Except the only problem is four legs and two legs connotes more information than Liberal and Conservative.

Okay, it's been awhile since I read that book. I don't think Liberal good, Conservative bad, personally. You have to construct a sensible, intelligent, informed approach where possible so I've never been a hard-liner. For instance, I recently spoke with a man recently campaigning for political office at the county fair and he repeated the old nugget, "It'll be a great day when the Air Force has to hold a bake sale, because schools are finally getting funding." I took issue with that because the fact is we have enough money to do good public funding of schools and we simply must have a strong military. The idea that we don't need that is completely naive. Read a history book! But I also don't hold with "the government can't do things as well as the private sector" as that is obviously naive as well.

263. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261643 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:27 am

You obviously aren't listening to what I am saying, so I am going to end this correspondence.

Well, if I misunderstood you, sorry.

They ran the country for eight years under Clinton and have controlled the Congress recently. What are they blamed for? Liberals are corporate lackeys just the same as Republicans. Clinton was in the pocket of the car industry. What's the point.

No, but my point was Clinton wasn't Left. He was centrist. And you are absolutely right that they are corporate lackey's the same as the Republicans.

Anyway, I thought the criticism wasn't of liberal politicians or Democrats, but of people with liberal views so I was asking why you think they're intolerant.

If you don't want to discuss it any further, okay.

264. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261640 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:21 am

I laughed out loud. Sorry.

Why? I spent over a year really trying to give myself to the conservative point of view, because I really wanted to understand where they were coming from, because I want America to heal or whatever from the growing animosity between conservatives and liberals. I read a lot of right wing and Christian right wing sites, I listened to Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Praeger and others I don't remember now. And I still check in with that stuff from time to time. I have relatives who listen to that, older ones, and they spout the most hateful stuff about liberals and say stuff at every family gathering about how all college teachers are commies and so on. This is stuff they get from Rush and others. I'm not making this up. There are dozens and dozens of sites and radio shows that do actually spout hatred of liberals. If you don't believe me, do some of your own investigation.

265. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261638 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:17 am

If I had been Al and DP had been me, Al would have lambasted him for not providing evidence. It's a big disappointment to me to see Al take his side. It makes me think I just don't know what his priorities are on this site.

Is that because you are a woman? Don't start with that shit.

No, Al, what I am saying is that when you are arguing you demand that people back up what they are saying and I learned the hard way by getting into a fight with you once.

266. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261637 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:14 am

Al, I still don't understand your four legs good, two legs bad thing.

Your average American liberal hasn't even heard of Chomsky. So don't throw all the people from the center to the far left together. My point was the Left has not been in power for decades and yet they are blamed for everything in an orgy of liberal-hating. Chomsky-style dissent is different from average American disgruntlement over being tricked into a war and watching our money go into the pockets of mercenaries Blackwater, et al, who are not accountable to the American people and who get a much better standard of living, better equipment and so on than the U.S. troops.

So people who criticize that are dogmatic and intolerant and they hate America? That's total bull.

267. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261632 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 7:03 am

Thanks for your thoughts, Sev.

People did get kind of mean to DP on the thread, but people routinely get mean to theists and each other as well. DP's been no angel and he has tried to make himself look like a victim, despite acknowledging the fact that he's said he also enjoyed the argument.

I tried to have a reasonable argument with him and provide evidence. He provided almost no evidence and was quite ugly in tone to me the whole time. I quit after he told me he hates Democrats and he assumes that all Democrats hate Republicans, because that told me he had an emotional agenda and that was why he wasn't listening to any reasonable arguments, why he kept hitting the reset button.

If I had been Al and DP had been me, Al would have lambasted him for not providing evidence. It's a big disappointment to me to see Al take his side. It makes me think I just don't know what his priorities are on this site.


Again, I'd be interested to hear someone truly elucidate how liberals are "intolerant" and "dogmatic" and particularly how that compares to the hostile, rigid views of conservatives, who foment hatred against liberals by the hour and, in particular, ones on this site, who ignore all evidence regarding Palin.

268. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261613 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 6:23 am

Al -

Four legs good, two legs bad.

You've used this quite frequently and each time I can interpret it differently. Could you be more specific?

Who do you think is being intolerant here?

I just feel my fellow liberals are completely intolerant. And there is more than a little evidence to back that up.

How so? What evidence?

269. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261608 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 6:06 am

Al - Fight the good fight for once. Our government is as right wing as its ever been and has been for decades. (Clinton was a centrist in the pockets of big government, he was terrible on the environment okay on social issues. He wasn't Left.) You're just joining the "hate liberals" bandwagon here and it doesn't serve the truth, not to mention your interests.

270. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261604 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 5:56 am

Further on this topic, I think there are different levels on which to look at this issue.

The soldier's point of view is valid. The dissenters point of view is valid. The historian's and sociologist's point of view is valid.

Feeling empathy for your enemy is next to impossible when they're actually shooting at you. Frankly, it is next to impossible to feel even if someone has cut you off in traffic. But, yes, from the armchair that empathy is possible and necessary. If, from the armchair, someone can't feel the horror and see the waste of human life, see the fact that people on both sides of a conflict just want to live and in some cases wouldn't fight without the manipulation of others hiding behind them, there would never be any motivation for non-military solutions.

Respectfully, CD, it is too easy for a soldier in danger to make a guy at home look like a fool by playing on emotions, but both view points are valid and necessary in reality.

A thing that should concern us is the fact that Osama bin Laden swore that he would bleed America to death by trying to engage us on many fronts for a long period of time. This has happened again and again in history where countries fought for so long and spent all their money and became emotionally exhausted and then were unable to resist invasion or some other kind of societal collapse. We can't afford just focus on how awful the enemy is and charge forward to destroy them. We have to think about the money, we have to think about the motivations, we have to think about where the war(s) will be fought. We also can't allow partisan haters and warmongers to muddy the discussion with emotive rhetoric by cowing their critics into silence with venomous accusations of "America haters."

edit -- I'm not calling you a warmonger, just to be clear. I think it's noble of you to stick up for the "underdog", but I just don't think he's as genuine as you think.

271. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261598 by hawt4dawk on October 7, 2008 at 5:40 am

Christoper Davis -

I'm done with you. You have shown your true colors. You are a "hate America firster".

I am sorry, CD, but you don't have a right to tell people who dissent with government policy on the war that they "hate" America. This is a dangerous trend that has to stop. The first thing that totalitarian countries do is start locking up and killing dissenters. So fuck that stupid, democracy-busting attitude right now.
We love America. U.S. soldiers in Iraq have been placed in harm's way by their own government, not receiving proper equipment, etc., so funds could be diverted to Halliburton and Blackwater, et al. There has been a huge, proven, undeniable personal profit motive in the Iraq war. You're a soldier in Afghanistan who, risking his own life, is really trying to help the people of Afghanistan. That's excellent work and noble and courageous, but it does not give you license to tell your fellow Americans to shut up about their criticism of the Iraq war and the Bush Cheney's responsibility or blame for it.

Furthermore, DP is not worthy of the defense of a man like you. He has argued most disingenuously, irrationally, and contemptuously. He's spread hateful smears about Obama and he's defended Palin no matter what evidence he's been presented with. He's been disrespectful, angry, snotty and sarcastic. He's said straight out that he hates Democrats and he has expressed contempt for liberals. He thinks the government is to blame for everything that's wrong with the U.S except for the Iraq war. He's not some poor guy that everyone is picking on just 'cause he's voting McCain. He's basically a Republican troll who is here to smear Obama and people were picking on him because of that, I think.

272. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261374 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 6:24 pm

Roots -- I know "yikes", right? Yikes. Yikes. Yikes. This is people in the government telling other people in the government agree to this or it'll be martial law. Not some survivalist's fantasy, but a real threat.

Edit -- Okay, for realzies.. good-night! :)

273. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261373 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 6:19 pm

Well, Goldy, it's been my hope that the neocons have just been playing the religious right like a guy in a bar pretending to be interested in astrology. The Sarah Palin thing has given me paws. Wait, I already had paws! oo ^-^ oo

da-bump-sha!

Well, it's off to bed. Too bad I have to hit the hay so early and so rarely get to hang out with the cool dudes from the Southern Hemisphere. :) Night-night!

edit -- that's what my father-in-law (ex-Air Force pilot) always says, "Cans of beans and shotgun shells!" Jay-su!

edit again -- Yeah, Goldy, but that's Canada where people are (mostly) sane...

274. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261362 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Speaking of the sky falling...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8

275. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261357 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 5:49 pm

Has anybody seen this? Troops being deployed inside the U.S.? Are they predicting massive civil unrest for some reason or anticipating attacks on the homeland? Kind of concerning.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

3rd Infantry's 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping 'people at home' may become a permanent part of the active Army

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the "jaws of life" to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area.

The 1st BCT's soldiers also will learn how to use "the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded," 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

276. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261241 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 2:45 pm

Caudimordax -- I really think there's a connection there. Clear thinking with clear language. Mess up the language and people get confused and easier to dupe. It makes people feel stupid and more childlike and maybe that makes them more psychologically vulnerable. Just look at the theology article posted today. Or posts by IsThatClear!

Decius - A meteoroid 2 metres across is about to strike Earth

Yikes! I look forward to the YouTube videos! However, Jupiter is supposed to toss those big ones away from us!

I have to dash off now. :)

277. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261230 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Sev & Goldy - de nada

Caudimordax - "and your bonnet over the windmill?"

**quietly** yeah, with any luck, a little bee will still be in it when it goes. Tee. Hee.

278. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261220 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Al -

can only hope people are indicted for this gross malfeasance.

Amen, brother! It's truly sickening and criminal.

279. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261219 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 2:31 pm

5073. Comment #261211 by Caudimordax

Yep! There are plenty of other "irrationalists", like cult-type groups such as Landmark Education with their "The Forum" where they tell you to "stand in possibility" and "throw your hat over the wall".

280. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261212 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 2:27 pm

As for Palin - how can anyone vote for someone who really thinks the world is younger than farming?

Goldy! LOL! It was created before the domestication of dogs!! That was Richard Dawkin's line from somewhere. Always makes me laugh, that one.

281. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #261200 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 2:21 pm

I found an interesting site called factcheck.org.

They have an interesting article on "who is to blame for the current financial crisis?" Both Republicans and Democrats are trying to blame each other and both are using inaccurate info to do so.

So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

* The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

* Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

* Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

* Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

* The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

* Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

* Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

* Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

* The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

* An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

* Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.

282. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260989 by hawt4dawk on October 6, 2008 at 9:27 am

Quetzalcoatl --

PM for you in a minute.:)

283. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260504 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 3:51 pm

Diacanu -- hive brain creates a rash. You'll notice it is illogical because Obama has spent time in Washington. Ha ha! Palin is a Fundamentalist! These people are reality-impaired.

edit McCain is part of the problem because he voted 4 out of 5 times for Bush's budget, etc., etc.

Never mind the facts!

edit again, well, I gots ta go

284. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260503 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 3:48 pm

Mordy and Hellene:

They're lying about so much. I posted this before it shows that there is little to be gained by more drilling and that the oil companies already have a huge amount of federal land to drill on that they're not using. Despite an increase in domestic production, gas prices still keep rising.

http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=388&Itemid=70

But never mind that! We have a climate crisis to consider and we simply must put our resources toward developing new technology, not pouring more wealth into the pockets of the oil companies!

285. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260497 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 3:40 pm

But Obama's character doesn't seem to bother you. You don't care that he went to a racist church, you don;t care that he worked with Ayers, you don't care that he worked with ACORN, you don;t care about his association with Tony Rezko and you don't care about his association with Saul Alinsky. So that is where we differ.

**sighs** No, DPB, you don't know me and you don't know what I care or don't care about. And you're not respectfully asking me any questions, I notice. Your attack on my own character by suggesting I don't care about the character of the person who might rule my country doesn't hold water for that reason and for others, which I think have been illustrated in many of the comments I've made. So stuff it!

Since you've admitted you have nothing but contempt for "liberals" and you hate Democrats, you're just repeating smears I've already debunked, I'm going to have to decline to engage with you further.

286. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260457 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Thanks to those who have been supportive of me in this argument.

I don't think Darwins Pit Bull is being fair edit-- and reasonable. I am wondering if he is just here to do some liberal and Obama-bashing end edit -- and I am wondering if I want to continue this argument. He's going to vote how he wants and I'm going to vote how I want.

Since this thread was about Palin and we were discussing her performance in the debate, I made my comments. It seemed to me that DPB hijacked the conversation to attack Obama with smears. At first, I didn't want to let him get away with that tactic and tried to focus on my complaints about Palin, but then I decided not to let the smears stand.

The thing is I don't hate Republicans. I think the Republican party has been, speaking of hijacked, taken over by extremely right wing people and is absolutely pandering to the lowest common denominator in the U.S. I have several people in my own and my husband's family that are Republican and we don't sit around hating on conservatives like it seems they do with us progressives. I think it's really a shame actually that there is this level of hostility. I am certainly not willing to let myself be abused on some chatboard by someone who makes such absurd attacks as this:

You guys hate republicans just as much as I hate democrats and these whining, complaining childlike liberals who replaced god with government

You're just plain wrong and it is time for you to head straight back to Rush Limbaugh as fast as your little pit bull legs can carry you.

287. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260451 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 2:24 pm

DPB -

That budget was "submitted by Mayor Sarah Palin" on April 24, 2000.

Nice article though but I thought you were going to show me how she directly said that she wanted rape victims to pay for their kits.

Are you suggesting that she had no knowledge of the policies of her own Chief of Police whom she directly hired to replace another one and that she somehow missed this issue when going over the budget reports? If so, you are proving my points about her being a poor leader.

288. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260441 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 2:12 pm

DPB - Maybe you could help me. If he's going to be our president, I'd be interested in real facts. I didn't see anything but a political agenda in the link you provided. I don't know much about ACORN, I'll admit, but if he's not genuinely connected to them, I don't see how it's relevant.

In the black community, in poor communities, there are all different sorts of people trying to help out. Some approach the problems from radical ideological vantage points,. Maybe that is true of ACORN. I don't know. What I do know is that Obama is a mainstream politician and I am not afraid of him because he incidentally knows a bunch of weirdos who have the same interest in a particular community.

4754. Diacanu, forgive-zies. really funny!

289. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260435 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 2:02 pm

DPB

SO I hear a lot of stuff that police chief is saying but nothing about Palin. Even the post you made said nothing about Palin. But once again, you can prove me wrong by posting something she directly said about this or maybe a list of rape victims who she made pay for there own kits. If this was a court case, you would lose.

Don't be too cocky now, son. Has all the evidence been presented?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-alperinsheriff/sarah-palin-instituted-ra_b_125833.html

Of the insufficient $1,000 allocated, only $152 had been used by December 31st, 1999, according to data from the FY2001 budget. That budget was "submitted by Mayor Sarah Palin" on April 24, 2000. At this time, the bill banning the "victim pays" policy was under consideration in the state House, and as a result, this budget included the FY99-level $4,000 allocation for "contractual services," and starting in June of 2000, the city began paying for the exams again. The interesting thing about the $152 spent during that 6-month time period (there were probably 5 sexual assaults reported during that period) is that it was not even enough to cover a single rape kit, using the $300-$1,200 range given by the original Frontiersman article. Perhaps Fannon was still using the fund for intermittent DWI blood testing, which had skyrocketed as a result of his decision to shift back bar closing times to 5 a.m. from the 2 a.m. closing time set by former Police Chief Irl Stambaugh.


The budget document for the 1999-2000 fiscal year includes a budget message by Mayor Sarah Palin. According to item A.6 of Section 2.16.020 of the Wasilla Municipal Code, the mayor must "repare and submit an annual budget and capital improvement program for consideration by the council, and execute the budget and capital program as adopted." This message ends as follows:

Though change is sometimes initially unsettling (and in the Woodrow Wilson: "if you want to make enemies, try to change something.") It is Administration's desire that this budget format be viewed objectively. I look forward to council discussions and continued input from our residents on the budget as we mindfully prioritize the public's dollars to plan, construct and improve our vital infrastructure


At the end of the letter, under the words "Sincerely," is the signature of Sarah Palin. The McCain/Palin campaign did not respond to requests for comment.

edit-- By the way, Fannon is the chief Palin instated after she fired the old one.

290. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260424 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 1:53 pm

DPB:

Thank you for the link. I was interested to learn that the author of the piece is from Ethics and Public Policy Center.

From SourceWatch:

"Created in 1976, EPPC was the first neocon institute to break ground in the frontal attack on the secular humanists. For nearly three decades, EPPC has functioned as the cutting edge of the neoconservative-driven culture war against progressive theology and secularism, and the associated effort to ensure right-wing control of the Republican Party."

From your own article:

Nevertheless, the possibilities suggested by a combined reading of the New York Times piece and the Foulkes article are disturbing...
I offer no settled conclusion, but the matter certainly warrants further investigation and discussion.

This writer suggests that because Talbot of ACORN, who knew Obama as a community organizer working with the same low-income, disenfranchsed minorities with whom she also worked, asked him to become a trainer, so that means he has "longstanding ties" with ACORN.

Just because you know somebody and they offer you a job, doesn't mean you're actually tied with them.

There is no evidence here. Just insinuations and smears brought to you by the culture warriors who support Bush, Cheney and the other neoconservatives in power.

291. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260416 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 1:35 pm

The woman's body is the crime scene in a rape case. The seminal fluids inside her vagina or rectum along with the type of bruising, tears or other physical damage is the evidence. In no other situation is the investigation of a crime scene billed to the victim.


I question if taxpayers really find it a "burden" to help solve a crime that affects the safety of the women in their community. Even so, there are federal funds available to a state to help defray such costs, yet they were not sought out even at the time as a local sports arena was being built (during her term). So tell me why this isn't relevant information to me about a politician?

In 2000, then-Governor Tony Knowles signed a bill in Alaska that ensured law enforcement around the state would pay for the processing of "Rape Kits" - forensics evidence collected in rape cases. Seemed common sense enough. Knowles noted, correctly, that we don't charge robbery victims the cost of dusting for prints, so why would be charge rape victims the cost of gathering evidence to apprehend their assailant?

Except one little town objected, and had previously refused to foot the bill to solve rape cases - Wasilla, under Mayor Sarah Palin.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/palins-wasilla-to-rape-vi_b_125047.html


http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt

292. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260377 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 12:18 pm

It was presented in the news here like it was a big coup for the super conservatives, surprising everyone so that the opposition wouldn't have time to muster effective campaigns, etc.

293. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260371 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Mitchell -- how so? I was pretty surprised!

294. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260370 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 12:02 pm

Hi Mordy, I missed them, but read the references to them all the time.

Mitchell - If Brent Horst gets his policies through then we'll definitely be heading up to Canada. Two day work week and free ice cream, reverse taxes..

295. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260365 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 11:55 am

Mitchell -- What is going on in Canada with that suspension of parliament and the call for a new election? Were Canadians upset by that tactic?

296. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260364 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 11:54 am

I respond with actual arguments and you people respond with "you are a troll from the religious right". But just like in politics, you can always tell the level of threat someone feels by the viciousness of there attack

Here's the problem: I have posted argument after argument with evidence, most of which you have ignored or dismissed out of hand. You have made assertion after assertion with no evidence and then you turn around and say you respond to actual arguments and we only respond with personal attacks. I speculated that you might be a troll, because of your behavior.

297. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260362 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 11:47 am

DPB - Did I call you an idiot? You don't listen to evidence. Your mind is made up. You repeat lies and smears.

I just need to look at his voting record on abortion, as well as his comments on why he voted against the born alive protection act. He said he didn't feel it was right to have the mother revisit the decision of whether to kill the baby or not, because of a botched abortion. He believes that once the mother made the decision to kill the child then you shouldn't have to make her reconsider that decision just because the baby was born alive.

Listen, I agree with you that it is disgusting and horrific that some babies are still alive after a botched abortion and left to die. To whatever degree that can be completely prevented, it must.

But what you're presenting is a smear. Even the Republican state senator who sponsored the bill does not support these smears. In fact, he freely admits that "None of those who voted against SB-1082 favored infanticide."

Here are the facts:

Barack voted against a bill containing language designed to protect infants who were "born alive," because such protection was already on the books as Illinois state law.

The bill was opposed by many legislators and groups like the Illinois Medical Society because of the unintended impact it would have had on other laws and legal precedents in Illinois

Barack is said that he would have supported a similar bill that came up in Congress -- but that didn't pose a threat to a woman's right to choose the way that particular Illinois bill did

298. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260359 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 11:38 am

Despite the fact that I am not going to argue with certain people anymore, I wanted to let others knows something about Obama and ACORN.

Barack was

-never an ACORN community organizer.

-never an ACORN trainer and he never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.

In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law.

ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.

299. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260347 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 10:55 am

4708. Comment #260341 by Caudimordax

You clearly have some sort of a bee in your bonnet about liberals, so there really is no point in taking up the discussion.

That might be a hornet's nest rather than a bonnet!! :) Seriously though, I agree with you, too. There is no point in continuing to argue rationally with someone who won't do the same.

300. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #260345 by hawt4dawk on October 5, 2008 at 10:51 am

Hellene - I agree. Peak oil is a real issue.

Oil is not the answer for so many reasons.

edit - What an insult to the remarkable octopus!