301. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220715 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:14 am

There we are then, rinse and repeat.

302. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220711 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:11 am

The question really is, what have they done every previous time an infallible statement has to be overturned?

303. Obama Should Re-Think His Faith-Based Agenda

Comment #220505 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 2:08 pm

I read a similar article somewhere else and I can't remember where. Either way, referring to walls coming down in Berlin is quite appropriate.

The Democratic Party is supposed to be opening a conference soon with a prayer (first time in its history) according to my Grauniad Weekly (I'm a little behind on them to be honest). Very worrying.

Other than the hypersensitivity to the use of walls, great article.

304. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220500 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Thewhitepearl:

Apologies for thinking you were doing a "me too" style wind up of Big Dog.

305. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220498 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 2:02 pm

"I am not ignorant. You are unable to read, like I said "Most Muslims"... which is true. But believe it or not, the Chechens can be just as bad as the Palestinians. So no I don't discriminate."

Please do wander back through the thread to regain some semblance of the point dear chap.

"And another aside, the "racist" card gets really old when applied to anti-Islamism. Grow up..."

That is just your guilt speaking. I clearly marked what I was referring to, you might look back to "that is all you had to say".

"The self righeous who constantly attempt to ferret out racists whenever someone decries Islam are rarely able to take a joke."

More guilt speaking?

"The Doctor doesn't seem to know about the black tribes in Sauid Arabia (Bani Harb and the like), he wouldn't know about them, so he probably assume Saudis are white.... when in fact there are more than a few in the Hijaz that are absolutely black as can be."

You really need to stop making things up. Either you don't actually read what people write before replying (and that seems to be the way of it) or you are trying to retrofit a frame to the argument that makes you feel better about your own dismal performance on this thread.

You might want to review your tactics, they only work against people you can actually intimidate. If you would argue without resorting to rants and insults so quickly you might win a few more.

Either way, I see no point in the continuing this particular conversation with you. There is only so much poorly argued ground shifting I can be bothered to reply to or try to correct.

Plus, it is time to sleep and I am slightly narked I let myself get sucked into this as the punishment is that I only finished working some 15 minutes ago. I'm only going to get grumpier and pour more fuel on your flames, so time to "plonk" for all our sakes.

Watch Lawrence of Arabia, and pay attention to the script.

*plonk*

306. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220372 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 11:21 am

@285

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

Really, it has been done before.

307. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220370 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 11:19 am

"Hey where did Dr. Doctor go????"

Earning a living and then eating dinner, then earning a living again. Time spent on this forum takes it out of the working day. I really have to cut back soon as working late to make up for it is a real pain in the arse and is quite unsociable.

"He made all these personal assertions about me"

How does it feel to have the recipient of it for once?

"then took off when it was time for the rubber to meet the road... oh well."

You might be getting dangerously obsessed, consider stepping away from the keyboard and get some fresh air, seriously.

308. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220368 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 11:16 am

"University of Google, hilarious. Actually I have done quite a bunch of research on these topics."

And yet you remain ignorant that there is a significant part of the Muslim world that is white in skin pigmentation, astonishing.

"It is as relevant as asking me if I saw Lawrence of Arabia."

Wrong. Watch it again, you will see what I mean.

"It was found in the libraries of universities and Saudi Arabia itself. But like you said, I don't have the time to travel."

You went to Saudi Arabia and yet you still remain ignorant? Perhaps Saudi Arabia isn't the best place to encounter "white" Muslims. I don't know, I haven't been there.

"Ignorance of what? Are you really this dense. How the fuck am I ignorant. You randomly bring up T.E. Lawrence and then declare me ignorant. What did I miss here?"

3/4 of the point, it seems. The film Lawrence of Arabia contains at least one point in it which should shake prejudices on skin colour.

Plus, you should visit Turkey some time, if you really can't get past relating Muslims to a skin colour.

309. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220296 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:29 am

"I know that asshole. I was quickly listing countries that have both Muslim and white populations. Is it too much to ask that you pick up on the obvious, or do I need to spell everything out in Teratornis fashion."

Temper temper.

"I can only be so didactic with people like you..."

You mean you don't have a limitless supply?


"I did. I have a degree in Middle Eastern Studies, and I have seen Lawrence of Arabia. Have you read his books? How about St. John Philby?"

Then your ignorance is shocking, to quote you.


"So the next time you suggest someone go do something intellectual to make yourself feel/look better, make sure they didn't already do it. But if you want to talk Arabian Peninsula with me let's do it. Please select a topic:"

Where did I say I wanted to talk Arabian Peninsula with you?


"1) Himyaritic Kingdom and the Abyssinian invasion to depose Dhu Nawas in the 6th Century
2) Nabataean epigraphy at Mada'in Salih
3) Early Arabic inscriptions at the oasis of Dedan
4) Egyptian copper mines at Tayma?
5) Early Christian presence in Mecca?
6) The Wahhbi Ikhwan campaing?"

Fascinating, the University of Google is such a wonderful place with equal opportunity for all. How is this relevant to your question?

"Tip: I've lived in Turkey, and yes, there were "white" Muslims there, and plenty of them.

Did you do Ottoman Turkish? No, no it seems not. Are you an Orhan Palmuk fan?

Evet?

Hayir?"

How is this relevant? Answer: It isn't. Stop shifting your ground.

310. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220284 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:21 am

@207, Peacebeuponme

"Well, the only alternative is anarchy."

Depressingly true, except perhaps, for being nomadic. It would be nice to have a sponger free society (and I mean real spongers rather than a demographic that people with anger issues like to label as spongers), but that will come when we have a criminal free society.

After all, criminals should pay for their own damn cells.

( ;) )

311. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220278 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:15 am

Dr. Doctor,

"There was a typo,"

Not a revealing error then? OK, I apologise for that then.

"Thank you for pointing that out."

Not a problem.

"And exactly how many Muslims are of white complexion"

When I've done a head count, you'll be the first to know.

"....Bosnia, Chechneya."

Bosnia and Chechneya are countries not Muslims.

"Do you consider Turks white?"

Eh?

Like I said, go watch Lawrence of Arabia, I'm guessing you can't take the time off to actually visit the Middle East and troll around the Lebannon, Turkey et al.

Tip: I've lived in Turkey, and yes, there were "white" Muslims there, and plenty of them.

312. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220271 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:11 am

"I think I'm missing something here, what are you saying?"

I'm wondering if there really is much difference when you come down to it between Mafia extortion and taxation.

"Who is being elitist?"

Me, apparently. Thats my cup of tea, I was talking about something for me to think about. Sorry, wasn't directed at you at all!

313. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220264 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:06 am

Yes, I do and I agree with it in general, but it isn't a point I was arguing.

I'll make it clear for you: I despise all religions equally, I make no distinction of colour nor class and I think that violence is the first resort of the incompetent.

That is pretty much as far as my philosophy goes. All the rest of it is "case law" (if you get the "joke").

314. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220259 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:02 am

al-rawandi:

I thought I'd leave it as long as you did, if not longer, and see how jumped up you got.

"Do you deny that terrorists are Muslims, and many Muslims are of dark complexion?"

I do deny terrorists are Muslims. What a pathetic revealing statement.

Some terrorists have been/are Muslims.

Many Muslims are of dark complexion, many are of white.

As you like films, ever seen Lawrence of Arabia? Yes? No? Go watch, it is probably about 22% accurate.

315. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220254 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:58 am

@Peacebeuponme

On the other hand, there is a level of extortion with menaces about government taxation. How different is it really than a scaled up Mafia operation?

Something to think about over a nice elitist cup of tea.

316. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220248 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:50 am

"You are truly obnoxioes.... to quote Walter Sobchak in the "Big Lebowski".... "You are like a small child who wanders into a movie, and wonders what is going on.""

Oh yes, of course. The usual resort to movie quotes to get by.

"It was insinuated that there was some bias on my part to immigrants, who are often dark skinned..."

I suggest you go get your head around some recent stats about migration inside the European Union then.

"A Muslim immigrant is likely to be dark skinned. It was insinuated that this was being focused on, at which point I said there were plenty of white people who abuse the system. I noted this to prove incorrect the assertion that I acknowledge only immigrants in the abuse of welfare."

You and I both know that isn't the bit I am quoting.


"Skin color has nothing to do with terrorism in its cause."

Thats all you had to admit.


"You are the one living on a fucked up backwards planet."

And now for the science bit...

317. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220242 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:46 am

Still waiting for an explanation of why skin pigmentation found its way into your "argument".

318. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220241 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:45 am

"So when a resident know-nothing like Dr. Doctor whines about "share value" he doesn't seem to realize that capital gains taxes are a strong soruce for the welfare he so desperately wants."

Oh dear, thats the bottom of the barrel scraped, what do you do for an encore? Start drilling through the wine cellar floor into mud?

I repeat:

1. It was a send up of your strawman, an attempt to get you to see how your extreme example was pointless.

I add:

2. I benefit quite nicely from shareholder value, thanks, and I've never needed any welfare payments in my life.

So how about you quit stereotyping about people who don't just roll over when you start having a tantrum about them.

OK, I know, I asked for the impossible.

319. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220237 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:41 am

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Your reply about the IRA is irrelevant. The example was drawn to point out your logical fallacy of "white drunks".

Again, you still haven't explained why skin colour suddenly plays a role - does having white pigmentation suddenly make you less likely to be a terrorist on your planet?

"Explain how increasing share value of a stock is bad for people.... "

Way to miss the point.

"So in short... fuck off with your haughty, and misplaced intellectual elitism. "

Answer: Nope.

320. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220221 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:21 am

"I think that people should have basic health care no matter what their religious or political views, providing they are willing to help pay for it when they are able."

Well said. (touche).

321. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220219 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:19 am

severalspeciesof,

Well said. Perhaps being clear about extreme examples being pointless is going to be understood better than mocking it with a send up.

322. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220216 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:17 am

"You are really shocking me with the level of ignorance you are displaying. I didn't advocate capitalism. I simply was criticizing socialism. So we have your first fallacy... false dichotomy.... strike one."

I clearly said it was a sendup of your strawman. If you fail to read and inwardly digest it is your problem.

Now explain why a conversation about muslims (and immigrants) suddenly becomes about "white drunks".

Given we are talking about shocking ignorance I suggest you pootle over to Amazon and order a few books about the Irish Republican Army (and offshoots) and any bios you can get about them to find out which one of them were teetotal.


"Fucking weird, tons of unions in the US. Strike two."

You are a bit thick aren't you? The power of trades unions was all but destroyed in the US, the UK (but not in France), and it was destroyed in the USSR for the same reason.

Guess it is too much to ask that you would know it even though the convention minutes where it is discussed and voted on are publicaly available (you may have to translate from Russian).


"So not having a clue how an economy works.... strike three."

You can say that, but it doesn't make it true. Although I'm sure it makes you feel better. ;)

323. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220194 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 7:49 am

"Comment #220184 by al-rawandi

I suspect we are closer than it seems here, but sometimes your language seems far harsher than you probably are. "

Steve, I suspect you aren't close in the slightest.

324. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220193 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 7:48 am

"Taking an innocent person's money at gunpoint is civilized? Make no mistake about it - that is exactly what it is. If you don't pay your taxes armed men will come and lock you up. If you try to defend yourself they will shoot you. "

Funniest comment all day. I've got this image of a British bobby shooting an old granny refusing to pay her council tax.

325. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220186 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 7:43 am

[start strawman sendup]
Well look at the track record of Capitalism. Death... death.... destruction.... death.... death.

Like I said before Capitalism is entirely dangerous because it places the "economy" above individual rights. The problem being that in the name of the "economy" anything can be done. If it is in the economic good to remove Jews, then that flies. If it is (and this is more realistic than the "Jews" example) in the economic benefit to fire everyone who makes less than $250,000 for a corporation per year, than so be it. But it has been that many people have died in the name of economic benefit.

[end strawman sendup]

Sing yay for shareholder value. If only those dang half employed academics felt the taste of my whip from time to time they wouldn't entertain these airy fairy notions!

Please tell me why the Bolsheviks destroyed trade unions (answer: same reason why capitalists did).

326. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220180 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 7:32 am

Hold on a minute .... I thought this was about religion

"White drunks"

When did it suddenly become about race or skin colour?

327. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220178 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 7:30 am

White drunks have bombed London and other places before now.

Besides, I thought all the terrorist bombers involved in the 7/7 attacks and the later attempts all had jobs, but I admit I didn't keep up.

But I object to the "slacker/sponger/immigrant" to "terrorist" correlation.

I am reminded strongly of watching repeats of "Till Death Do Us Part" in digs whilst trying desperately to focus on my AI coursework.

328. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220145 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 6:26 am

Steve,

Please don't take it personally.

329. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220083 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 4:30 am

I don't see a proper technical criticism that would require decades of experience in there Steve.

I will wait for someone who has the time and patience and experience in the field of Biology that this is targeted at to download it and try it before denouncing it, or a reasonable, analytical report on it from a software engineer doing a source code review.

"Running LISP on Matlab, and with only a currently a Windows-based deployment available is not (yet) anything to get excited about."

If that is ALL it is. Download it and see (you can use a Wine variant I presume).

One mans' "decades of experience" is another mans' prejudice ;)

330. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220069 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 4:05 am

It is very easy snippy to be about an innovation, no matter how small. Judge them by the results, not by any aesthetic sense of what should or should not happen.

So this:

"They key is whether it will actually yield any revelations. If it does, it might gain acceptance."

..is what is important.

331. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220045 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 2:34 am

Sorry.

332. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220027 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 1:23 am

"However, I think you are backing up my point about this article to an extent."

Yes, probably, I'm going to shut up now. ;)

333. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220023 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 1:13 am

"I assumed the point was that you had written something easy for non-specialists to use that sat above a lot of useful functionality."

OK, so you did get the point.

"My point was that there are already languages that are easy for non-specialists to use - Smalltalk, Python. Python is a particularly good systems language, yet was chosen for the OLPC project because of its ease of use. "

Yes, there are now.

These days if I was looking at doing something like that I wouldn't bother writing a new language, I'd use an existing one and get that to drive my runtime as so many people use general purpose languages that have open source interpreters and the languages are more extensible.

But given the whole thing was registry based (you "register" the tasks at execution in a network attached registry - at the time SNA based so the example of using a webpage is my modern spin on it), and someone runs the task and it can run anywhere on the plex in whole or in part (A runs main task, B runs subroutine x) and there was no way of describing that in the language environments I was allowed to use at the time that would have been taken up by the people whose problem I was trying to solve. It saved a lot of time and therefore money.

Which is kind of the point.

(edit: Not sure where "seconds" came from there.

334. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220018 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 12:56 am

"That was written without even looking at your code."

Why code in italics? But again, you are missing the point. The code was there to demonstrate similarity of layout with COBOL, REXX etc. The idea being that like an iceberg, the "look" of the thing is often only the tip. I'm not a great explainer, so it is probably my fault you aren't getting it.

"Aaaah, those were the days - brings me right back to my youth when computers caused streetlights to flicker across town when you turned the power on. My first job was writing REXX code on an IBM 370 VM/CMS system. "

Yes, why on earth did we ever stop using COBOL, for that matter why did we ever leave the ocean? Damn limbs and air breathing lungs, domain specific apparatus! I remember the days when we just had cell division, none of this fancy schmancy sexual intercourse!

335. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220011 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 12:37 am

Steve

You surely cannot have missed the past tense in my posts?

This is not something I am doing right now, it is something that was developed at the time to solve a specific problem in a specific place and it did so.

I am interesting in resurrecting it, but not at the cost of my livelihood.

As for you claiming you didn't comment on the syntax and semantics, oh please ;)

"There are plenty of existing languages that allow precisely that already, and in reasonably clear English: Ruby, Python, TCL."

The best computer languages are written for a purpose: to allow a target audience to operate an environment without having to think too hard about it.

As for XML, please, there is nothing *technical* in XML itself that *suddenly* allowed "portability" and "use of standards". Standards bodies can use whatever data format they like. It is a matter of what becomes popular - a de-facto standard. In this case XML was created by a standards body, and had wide acceptance.

Oh damn we are hijacking the thread.

336. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220004 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 12:15 am

You cannot suppress ideas and thoughts, you can only police those who would act on them.

337. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220003 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 12:13 am

Steve,

I can't explain in depth about the language and its runtime and how it differs from traditional two phase commit models on this thread without hijacking it. But that wasn't my point, my point was to provoke your initial reaction and then demonstrate there was more to it than you initially thought just from a cursory look at the syntax and semantics.

I had a reaction similar to yours when it was introduced "Oh it is just like REXX and Object REXX" through to "what is the difference between this and COBOL". When you demonstrate how the code can be deployed around several systems, with recovery and playback of the stack and the heap and without having to think about it too hard, once people start to see what problem you are trying to solve even the poorest explainers' ideas can take off.

Except, of course, that company still owns the rights and won't market new languages so it is stuck being a useful engine in a given environment. Such is life ;-)

338. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #220000 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 11:57 pm

Steve,

That is exactly what I mean (your reaction to that code).

;-)

Correct me if I am wrong but Ruby, Python, TCL are not distributed two phase commit languages. The power of a language is not necessarily in the syntax and semantics but in the environment it harnesses.

(Edit) Note, also just want to point out that there is a keyword at the top that is very revealing:

environment:
restrict to local process

Without that, any computer on the network could run any part of that program.

That is what I meant by cross system.

339. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #219997 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 11:51 pm

Steve,

I'll give you an example of a language I wrote as a project at a company I used to work for:

contents:
    main program.
    "handle message".
    "log data"
    
environment:
    restrict to local process
    task "read webpage"
    attach "c:output.dat" to environment.file    
    attach "http://news.bbc.co.uk" to environment.input
    attach sink stdout to environment.console
    define environment.storage as a list
    
main program.
    steps.
        until environment.termination
            "handle message" from environment.input
            "log data"
            
    signals.
            on "terminate"
                environment.termination becomes true

handle message.
    adopt role "handle message"
        for each line
            environment.console line
            environment.storage append line

log data.
    adopt role "log data" in "read webpage"
        hold environment.storage
        save environment.storage to "transaction file"
        clear environment.storage
        release environment.storage

transaction file.
    adopt role "transaction file" in "read webpage"
        write to environment.file

340. Biology Enters 'The Matrix' Through New Computer Language

Comment #219985 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 11:02 pm

Before rushing to judgement Steve, it might be an idea to get our mits on the language and review it.

This strikes me as the kind of executive overview I hate, no concrete examples and hyped promise editorialised around what facts there are. Just because the article is poor doesn't mean the language is not innovative.

Technical people tend to describe their innovations in past terminology, inevitably leading to claims of reinventing the wheel.

341. Response to Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris

Comment #219655 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 10:51 am

A mothers' love is a wonderful thing to see.

342. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #219643 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 10:39 am

Joe, why do you hate women so?

343. Write to UCF

Comment #219636 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 10:31 am

Mitchell Gilks:

Precisely.

Yet there are still people out there who think it was a positive contribution to what we laughably call the Atheist Movement.

Astonishing.

344. Write to UCF

Comment #219632 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 10:30 am

I suspect the Rational Response Squad are just as much of an blot on our landscape as the Catholic League are to lay RCs.

345. Write to UCF

Comment #219626 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 10:24 am

I agree, things like the Blasphemy Challenge are needlessly adolescent.

346. Write to UCF

Comment #219623 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 10:20 am

Steve

I'm not [b]that[/b] easily upset, I just don't want to escalate the discussion further when we are clearly talking at cross purposes.

I have very specific views about the incident, about the group of people that should be reacted to with ridicule (which I've clarified above) and posted them on your blog.

You are talking past me with your criticisms and expecting me to respond not just to your criticisms of my point of view but of a point of view that I do not represent which is completely unreasonable.

I object to this as I see it as putting words in my mouth. There is something I consider as a good tactical reaction to THIS incident (ridicule, always the best reaction to bullies and not just for the Sun Tzu rationale I pointed out on your blog). However whether this tactic is useful in all situations is not something I'd care to extrapolate on but you keep looking at the wider effects and taking my views (which I thought were clear about this localised group).

I'm not prepared to be an advocate for anyone else 's opinions.

OK so I generalised about the American Catholic vs French Catholic vs British Catholic, but I did so with a disclaimer either side. It was clearly not a statement of fact.

What mildly irritates me is that you continually use generalisations in your own posts and pick up others on it when their generalisations do not suit your world view.

I wrote a post, quoting yours with annotations of where you had made generalisations, what was a straw man and where you had quoted me directly and made a comment that you later clarified was not specifically directed at me. I realised this was aggressive and likely to just escalate further and offend someone I didn't want to offend. I removed it by editing it.

What might be useful would be to have some of these round table discussions over Skype or something with a bunch of us talking the issues into greater depth - then we can spot nuances.

You owe me no apology, but you've given me a few "eh what?" moments in the last few pages.

- Dr Doctor.

347. Write to UCF

Comment #219611 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 10:05 am

You know it is time to walk away from a thread when you write a post annotating sentence by sentence with a critique just to make a point that isn't being groked.

348. Write to UCF

Comment #219605 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 9:59 am

"Im not generalising based on personal experience. The Golden Rule is part of biology."

Don't try and hide behind the golden rule. I hope you are not deliberately mixing the issues here.

If an entire "demographic" believes something patently false and absurd, then there is reason to call it out for what it is.

349. Write to UCF

Comment #219603 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 9:56 am

This post:

"As I said with the "applying pressure" discussion earier, it may be correct to call an entire group idiots or whatever, but unless there is some reasonable outcome expected from doing that, I just can't see the point. You have to provide a way for those you are intending to ridicule stop themselves looking ridiculous.

If you call an entire group (and by that I mean all practising catholics anywhere, not just an unpleasant group associated with the Cook business) deluded idiots, then you are providing little motivation for them to say how nasty people like Bill Donohue (and those who attacked Cook) are, even if they think it.

Sooner or later, we are going to have to have a discussion with these people about limiting the influence of religion in supposedly civilised and democratic societies. I just don't see how saying "I spit on your cracker, you silly people" takes us along that path. If we want to change society, we need to persuade people to change it with us. That includes the religious. "

Contains strawmen and generalisations. I've already had this discussion with you over on your blog, I'm quite willing to copy and paste my side of the argument over here.

I'm not calling all Catholics freaking idiots, just the ones reacting in a "dumb assed" (to quote a Catholic criticising the same people) way to the specific Cracker incident and trying to excuse manhandling someone over it or making death threats over it.

In that context "it is just a freakin' cracker".

So please, with respect again Steve, for I do respect you, please stop putting words into my mouth just so you can have the argument you want to have.

350. Write to UCF

Comment #219599 by Dr Doctor on July 27, 2008 at 9:52 am

Then if it was not specifically aimed at me, or rather that quote (seems my generalisations based on personal experience are unacceptable whereas yours based on your own personal experience are ), then really you should have made that clear.

"Having an opinion like that is still generalising about something rather specific. It doesn't make it any less of a generalisation for it being an opinion."

Which doesn't make it wrong. I never said it wasn't a generalisation, I said it was *reasonable*.