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Comments by epeeist


301. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #194095 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 12:12 pm

Comment #194085 by Kardashovel

Y'all are making this stuff up. Admit it.


< petulant four year voice >It wasn't our fault, we didn't start it. It was that txpiper and his friend receivedTheGift< /petulant four year voice >

Ice Canopy

302. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #194084 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Comment #194076 by al-rawandi

Look at you gentlemen. I am constantly amazed at the patience some people here show the benighted hoardes who constantly cycle through this place. I guess I don't fall under "helpful" or "educational" in my approach.
I can see "helpful" isn't really your thing.

Educational? Absolutely, even when you say things I disagree with.

303. How to reconcile Richard Dawkins?

Comment #194079 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 11:59 am

Comment #193404 by rutan668

But he offers that perhaps it's because Marxism itself acts something like a religion in its appeal to a higher power -- the Party, rather than God. And in this Dawkins may be absolutely right, though it reveals that an atheist philosophy can indeed operate as a religion, and therefore offer a logical pathway to evil deeds.
I think fizhburn has covered this. My understanding is that there is some dispute as to whether the Tamils are atheist or Hindu, but I wouldn't want to press this.

A couple of things I would dispute though. Are you certain that the Tamils are committing their terrorist attacks because of their atheism? Or are they doing it because of their nationalism.

The second thing I would want to argue against is the idea of an "atheist philosophy". How can a simple disbelief in the existence of gods be called a philosophy?

304. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #194068 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 11:37 am

Comment #194061 by MPhil


I have been strongly influenced by epeeist on this. Sometimes, with the best intentions, we let such people run rings around us. We end up pandering to them, answering every question.
That makes sense... sounds right. Still, somehow, epeeist manages not to "lose his cool" over the irrational people coming here.
I wouldn't want to lose the educational aspect of this site. But it does mean that we educate the educable, not the people who are solely here to vent their ideologies and do not read what is presented to them in the first place.

The only things that these people need to be taught is that bifurcation is a fallacy, perceived "problems" with evolution do not mean that ID/creationism is valid. Secondly, they need to be made aware that if they do have claims then the burden of proof is upon them.

As for losing my cool - I have been taken a leaf out of Shayne Dark's book. As he says, the fundies tend to be fairly sensitive to "bad language" and it can be a useful provocational technique. However, I can't claim to be any where near as imaginative with it as the Rev. Dark or Diacanu.

305. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #194009 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 9:24 am

Comment #194004 by al-rawandio Catholics still burn witches or torture Jews into fake conversions?But Catholics aren't real Christians are they ;-)

306. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #194001 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 9:19 am

Comment #193978 by ketch22


If you really want to exercise your mind, hop on over to access research network www.arn.com where real intelligent people debate without ridicule.
OK, here is a comment that I am sure you are going to dismiss as ridicule.

Anyone who can put together a web site with as poor accessibility as that one has wants shooting.

307. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193929 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 8:14 am

Comment #193917 by Mark Smith


So at 20 years per generation that gives 800 years from creation until the earth was full.


Well d'uh. Why do you think he needed a flood?

308. Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex

Comment #193887 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 7:36 am

Comment #193869 by Cartomancer

I must say this is not surprising, research has pointed in this direction for a while now.
I tend to handwave a bit on this "there is sufficient research to show that homosexuality has a biological basis". Fortunately nobody has ever called me on it.

Besides this are there any publicly available papers that you could point me (and others) to?

309. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #193880 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 7:30 am

I dropped MPhil a note querying whether this guy was a fake or not. Seems I needn't have bothered.

310. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193786 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 3:37 am

Comment #193773 by Steve Zara


Oh dear. I am reduced to crying with laughter. I just don't know where to start. I didn't believe I would ever come across ideas nuttier than those of wooter, with his "God designs each snowflake", but boy did I underestimate humanity.


Absolutely.

What I want to know is how far above the earth was this ice canopy. Given that it should be fairly easy to calculate how thick it would need to be to provide all the water that is necessary for the flood. Also, how much energy would be released when this amount of water fell to earth.

I used to live in St. Helens. In the Pilkington glass museum that had some ultra-pure glass that was used to make fibre optic cable. Even then there were problems with attenuation. How much sunlight would an ice crystal canopy let through?

311. Holiday in Hellmouth

Comment #193776 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 3:17 am

Comment #193772 by Quetzalcoatl

But there is no atheist creed! That was the whole point. How can I be defending a creed by saying that there is no creed? That is ridiculous.
He has never managed to define the "creed" or "tenets" that atheists supposedly adhere to.

Like all his posts the aim seems to be to antagonise rather than anything else.

312. Holiday in Hellmouth

Comment #193770 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 3:03 am

Comment #193765 by Steve Zara on June


You truly are an awful person, David. You are now reduced to insulting someone who clearly has a deep understanding of philosophy (unlike you).
And after his comment one has to wonder how much he understood of the Professor of Philosophy at the University of Dundee.

313. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193734 by epeeist on June 16, 2008 at 1:11 am

Comment #193626 by ReceivedTheGift


All Macroevolution inferences are based on faith. Again, present me with one scientific proven fact which undeniably proves Macroevolution. Please leave out the "may be's" the "might's" the "possibly's" the "could be's" ....
Chaps, you have let this frothing-at-the-mouth fundie define the discourse.

As I suggested he just came back with his reset button pressed and tried to restart the debate as though nothing had happened.

He has been shown the link to Theobald's site so he knows there is evidence for macro-evolution.

What he has not done is provide evidence for a creator or designer. Burden of proof - its all on him.

So RtG. Let's have some evidence of a creator/designer. I asked you before and you didn't answer, Brian English has subsequently pressed you on the matter. As a result you were given a first strike.

Now I am willing to be magnanimous, I won't call another strike unless there is nothing in your next post that gives us some evidence.

314. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #193394 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 2:03 pm

Comment #193383 by Corylus

Maybe Lane Craig too.
So this would be part of his "objective morality"?

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5767

I have just bought Bernecker and Dretske's "Knowledge: Readings in Contemporary Epistemology" on MPhil's recommendation. I am having an interesting time in reconciling some of the material with some of the online material of Paul Churchland but I haven't got very far as yet. I have a suspicion that "properly basic belief" might be one of the things that should disappear as a consequence of eliminative materialism.

315. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #193380 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 1:41 pm

Comment #193369 by ketch22


1. God makes sense of the universe's origin: both philosophically and scientifically it can be argued that the universe had a beginning. Whatever begins to exist must have a cause... the universe began to exist... therefore the universe has a cause. We know the cause must "not" have a cause itself or a beginning because it is impossible to have an infinite regress of causes. We know that it must be timeless because it created time and we know that it must be immaterial because it created matter.
  1. Quantum vacuum fluctuations - no causality required.
  2. If time began with the universe, before does not even apply to it, and it is logically impossible that the universe be caused.
  3. You say that infinite regress is impossible, but you want to stop at term 1 of the series, your god created the universe but nothing created it. However you offer no reason for this. Why not stop at term 0, why should the universe need a cause if your god doesn't?

2. God makes sense of the universe's complexity: In the last 35 years, scientists have come to the conclusion that the big bang was not some chaotic event, but rather an event that was well organized and required a lot of information. This points to an intelligent designer.
Your first and last sentences are obvious cases of begging the question. The obfuscation between entropy and information. The entropy at the Big Bang was actually very low.

3. God makes sense of objective moral values: Are all values evolved from nature or from what we have created in society to make it work? Isn't the holocast wrong even though the Nazi's say it isn't? Just because one group of people or even 1 person says something is OK, aren't there certain things such as rape, murder, etc... that we just know to be wrong no matter what somebody else believes. This is objective morality and it had to come from somewhere outside of nature.
So demonstrate an "objective moral value" and explain why it is objective. How can you tell what is objectively moral?

4. God makes sense of the resurrection: I could spend hours debating this subject, but there is significant historical proof that Jesus rose in 3 days.
Some actual documentary proof that Jesus existed would be a good start. Let us see your "significant historical truth".

5. God can be immediately experienced: "Properly Basic Belief" is a philosophical idea that we can only truly know what we truly experience ourselves. Our belief that the external world exists is "properly basic" as we can't prove that it does, but it is entirely rational that we "know" it does because of our own experiences in that world. Same with God. Those who have had an experience with God, know that this is an experience with God and nobody from the outside can tell us otherwise. It is appropriately grounded in our own experience.
A follower of Plantinga are you?

316. God and Science Collide in Nation's Capital

Comment #193371 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Comment #193367 by Theo

I can tentatively conclude that life arose by intelligence.

A much wiser person than I said "if an entity X is postulated to exist, and no substantive evidence capable of withstanding intense critical scrutiny is present to support the postulated existence of entity X, then the default position is to regard entity X as not existing until said substantive supporting evidence becomes present."
Zara, I cannot prove that a phenomenon will never be explained naturally just as you cannot prove the non-existence of God.
But using the tentative methods of science we can advance the hypothesis that gods do not exist. This is falsifiable given substantive evidence.

317. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #193335 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 11:30 am

Comment #193332 by davelynch

A Christian posted on an Inverness website called christianstogether, saying that he stole and destroyed a copy of the Koran from a local prison. Other christians on the site condoned this action, saying that the 'thiefs' motivation (to save people being from satans influence) made his action okay.
If the post is still there then I would prefer that provide a link to it. Otherwise this is simply your unsubstantiated word.

318. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #193329 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 10:56 am

Comment #193326 by Paula Kirby

And, talking of quoting me, I see that you have lifted my report of last week's UHI theology lecture and put it on your own website (http://www.christianstogether.net/Publisher/Article.aspx?id=114100) without acknowledgement of where it came from - despite 2 requests from a guest on your site to provide a link.
So copyright theft is fine, presumably providing you are only stealing from atheists.

319. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #193304 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 8:26 am

Comment #193262 by DamnDirtyApe


Can we make one of the RDF objectives to be bigger than the TBF?
And there was me thinking it was the Blair Foundation for God.

As a free gift when you join you get a complementary snozzcumber.

320. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #193301 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 8:24 am

Comment #193297 by Mark Smith


Does your experience involve anything more than strong conviction, regularly reinforced by worship, prayer and mutual assurance from other believers?
Perhaps he got his 72 virgins early.

321. Saving Us from Darwin

Comment #193294 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 8:11 am

Comment #193284 by ketch22

You sound bitter
Oh for fucks sake, what is it with people being accused of bitter? Is the mot de jour or something, I have had it from clearthinker and receivethegift and now border collie is being accused of it.
Isn't the "little world view" really belong to those who can't conceive of a creator and that this is all there is? Isn't that limiting mankind?
Look you stupid cunt. Rather than just whining about the possibilities that we might have made mistakes in our theories why don't you actually present some evidence that your creator exists?

322. How to reconcile Richard Dawkins?

Comment #193255 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 4:33 am

Comment #193251 by rutan668


It's good that this Peter McKnight pointed out some of Dawkins's many inconsistencies - and even better that they were posted on his website.
This is rather a blanket statement. Do you want to enumerate these inconsistencies?

323. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193241 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 3:44 am

Comment #193233 by Quetzalcoatl

From reading RTG's posts he seems to be an evasion specialist. I don't think there will be any straight answers coming from him.
Agreed. I approve of the new assertive Steve Zara, pressing creationists to explain why their claim of a higher standard of intelligence and credibility than those working in an area should be accepted.

In the same way one should require such people to present positive evidence as to their claims that, for example, the universe was created. No allowing them to run off into other topics or simply claim that there are "problems" in our explanations. The burden of proof is strongly upon them, they shouldn't be allowed to escape from it.

324. Holiday in Hellmouth

Comment #193236 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 3:27 am

Comment #193227 by scottishgeologist


Interestingly, certain churches and other outfits DO take a stronger line on Sabbath observance and will actually close down web sites. Now this may sound fundie extreme, but give them their due, they are practising what they preach. At least they are consistent. Try these 2:

F P Church: www.fpchurch.org.uk
Well they obviously forgot today, it still seems to be up.

Is this a mortal sin? Will they be consigned to the pit along with us atheists?

For DAR's benefit. The above was a joke.

325. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193231 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 3:13 am

And so RtG disappears without providing us with any evidence for creation or acknowledging that he has been provided with evidence for macroevolution.

Let's be charitable and assume that it is late where he is and he had to go to bed. Given that it will presumably be Sunday when he wakes up is he, do you think, going to go to church and ask his pastor for some answers to our questions? Or will he not raise the fact that he has been to this site because it might be construed as a sin? What odds he will just come back with his reset button pressed and try to start the conversation all over again as though all previous posts were null and void?

Let's have no more whining and evasion from these people. If they are claiming creation then let them provide some evidence. No running off into claiming that there are "problems" with "Darwinism".

326. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193220 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 12:52 am

Comment #193219 by ReceivedTheGift


Are you INFERRING that I have not read this before? That's your problem. You base so much of what you take as fact by accepting INNFERENCES as facts.
Read what before? You wouldn't be referring to the Theobald link would you?

I am still waiting for some demonstration of the evidence for creation by the way - strike 1.

327. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193215 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 12:24 am

Comment #193209 by ReceivedTheGift

I thought you keep stating that this forum is about Evolution not Creation. Why then do you keep asking me to show you evidence of a Creator. Why don't you show me evidence of Macroevolution? The purpose of this forum.
The purpose of this forum is rational argument, not solely evolution.

You came here claiming the putative Jesus as part of the trinity that supposedly created the universe. You are being asked to validate that claim. You have been asked several times and have not done so. As a result I am going to invoke a move that Dr. Benway (one of the contributors to the site) suggested. It derives from your game of baseball, namely three strikes and you are out.

To keep the discussion tight - please provide evidence that the universe was created.

Oh, and macroevolution? See my previous post.

328. John McCain: America a Christian nation, needs Christian president

Comment #193210 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 12:19 am

Comment #193203 by Sparafucil

McCain voted FOR the Defense of Marriage Act. He voted AGAINST the Federal Marriage Admendment. Don't confuse the two. McCain is not the moderate the media would have you believe.
Nice little article in today's Observer detailing some of the problems that evangelicals have with McCain - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/15/johnmccain.uselections2008

329. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193208 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 12:16 am

Comment #193206 by ReceivedTheGift

Macroevolution?
Macroevolution?
Macroevolution?
Too easy - read it and weep - http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

However, answer some questions rather than constantly evading the questions that are asked of you.

330. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193207 by epeeist on June 15, 2008 at 12:14 am

Comment #193196 by ReceivedTheGift

Jesus is the Truth and The Way.
You haven't shown any evidence for a creator which is the first of the questions I asked of you.

All you are doing is assuming the truth of my lemma 5 without any evidence and assuming this validates all the previous lemmas.

Take it in turn. First show there was a creator, once we get past that step then we can talk about deities.

331. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193187 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 11:53 pm

Comment #193173 by Brian English

Don't change the subject you dishonest git. I'm not talking about evolution.
Exactly. Whenever a creationist is challenged to provide evidence for a creator all they do is whine and try to attack the ToE.

The default position is this: if an entity X is postulated to exist, and no substantive evidence capable of withstanding intense critical scrutiny is present to support the postulated existence of entity X, then the default position is to regard entity X as not existing until said substantive supporting evidence becomes present.

So pony up some evidence of your creator, and to be more exact why this creator is Yahweh and not Atum or Bert the Magic Penguin (TM Shayne Dark)

332. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193176 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 11:45 pm

Comment #193168 by ReceivedTheGift

How amazing it truly is. Anyone shrunk down to size with the ability to walk through one of those port holes would ask the most obvious question. WHO made/created this?
The first sentence is correct. The second and third sentences are simply begging the question.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#begging

We just have to keep them in our prayers and release it to the Lord.
Which Lord would that be? There are so many of them - http://www.godchecker.com/

And any way - you still owe me some answers, here they are if you can't remember -http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2394,Lying-for-Jesus,Richard-Dawkins,page142#192734

333. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193071 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 2:23 pm

Comment #193058 by Quetzalcoatl


Yisrayl Hawkins, the leader of a Texan sect, actually predicted the end of the world for two days ago. We're living on borrowed time. Now might be a good time for a cup of tea!
Bugger that for a game of soldiers.

If the world is ending in a couple of days then I have a nice bottle of Bunnahabhain to finish off.

334. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #193067 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 2:20 pm

Comment #193003 by Quine

It is reasonable to postulate that pockets of organic chemicals existed in contexts where energy was flowing from a more concentrated form into waste heat, and the waste heat had a place to go away.
You get organic molecules all over the place. There are large numbers of them floating free in space, easily to characterise by their spectra (Microwave gives the most specific results). A slightly outdated list is here - http://aramis.obspm.fr/mol/list-mol.html

There is enough ethanol in space to make 300,000 pints of beer for every person on Earth every day for the next billion years.

And this report from Imperial College gives details of the nucleobases uracil and xanthine being found in the Murchison meteorite - http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_13-6-2008-14-44-59?newsid=38534

So, no hassles with catalysis on zeolites or ice for molecular formation. However, it looks as though there might have been the possibility of a kick start. And even if this isn't the case then it certainly shows that precursors to RNA are not exactly unknown in the rest of the universe.

335. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192932 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 9:31 am

Comment #192920 by txpiper

I'm good enough with AIG's date. Whatever it was, it is 1656 years after Adam.
I do like someone who is good with figures. Notice how txpiper has the courage of his convictions and gives us an exact date for the flood.

Realise how, when we starting picking off the arguments for the flood he is going to start shifting Adam's date about.

336. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192894 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 6:39 am

Comment #192886 by Steve Zara

You will note as well that Paula did not threaten me with physical harm or everlasting damnation for disagreeing with her
Whereas if I disagreed with SWMBO...

I now coach two pairs of girls from different families. The first family is one guy, his wife and four daughters. The second is one guy, wife and two daughters. We fathers occasionally compare notes as to what it is like to be the only man in a family of women. There are definite conclusions as to the number of bathrooms you need, especially when daughters reach teenager-hood.

337. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #192892 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 6:33 am

Comment #192834 by rod-the-farmer

Good grief. What bafflegab. And this guy was in charge ? Did he display this sort of nonsense when running for office ?
Not when he was running for office.

Once he was in office, then yes. Google some of the antics he and Cherie got up to with Cherie's life style advisor Carole Caplin.

338. As the world becomes smaller, the need to understand each other's faith grows

Comment #192889 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 6:29 am

Comment #192808 by agn

Faith is to eradicate deaths from malaria???
Oh absolutely. Of course it is only doing this so the policies of Tony's new best friend can contribute to their death by HIV and AIDS.

339. Teenager faces prosecution for calling Scientology 'cult'

Comment #192883 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 6:10 am

I was in Manchester treating my camera to a new lens when I came across this lot. The dismissal of the prosecution has hopefully made people a little more adventurous.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10983076@N08/sets/72157605608780481/

340. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192875 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 5:29 am

Comment #192853 by Paula Kirby

Steve Zara: Paula. I am very sorry, but I am going to have to disagree with you. I hope it is going to be in an interesting way.

Steve, it is always interesting when you disagree with me! No apology required, especially when I'm venturing into areas about which I only have the most rudimentary knowledge.
The thing about this site is that people and ideas bounce off each other. I note that Al-Rawandi raised something that MPhil raised going back to somebody else talking about memes.

This is why I find it so laughable that somebody like RtG can claim that we are small minded and bound to a particular set of ideas. As was obvious he had swallowed the pap fed to him by his pastor without thinking. One can see the pastor claiming lots of evidence for the existence of Jesus and his congregation nodding in agreement. The authoritarian nature of the arrangement ensures that they will not doubt the claim nor will they go check that it has some truth to it.

341. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192801 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 1:30 am

Comment #192787 by Goldy

:-D
28 minutes:Penalty: New Zealand 20-6 England
:-(
Ah well, I suppose they have to make up for the cricket somehow.

I see from RtG's registration that this was his first visit and that he hasn't read TGD. The question really is whether he has read anything apart from some tracts that his pastor gave him. He obviously didn't even know his bible particularly well.

Ignorance I can understand. I take beginners who know nothing about fencing apart from what they have seen on "The Spiderwick Chronicles" and the like all the time. There is an asymmetric but mutual learning experience as I relieve them of their ignorance.

I can't understand the likes of RtG though. With all the books published in a year, with the whole of the Internet available to him he is comfortable in retaining his ignorance, in not stepping outside the bounds defined by his ideology.

342. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192794 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 1:20 am

Comment #192788 by ReceivedTheGift


I truly am trying to understand why this discussion resulted in most of you displaying such an animosity and heartless attack on Christianity.
Oh look, he just pressed the reset button.

The animosity you received was because you came here with the assumption that we needed saving for Jesus because we are bad people. You compounded that by making asinine statements which were clearly wrong, you were asked questions to which you made no answers but claimed you had, you tried to evade making answers by diverting the thread in another direction.

Now you are trying to go back almost to your original posts as though no conversation had taken place.

You have some questions to answer - please get on with it.

343. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192786 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 1:11 am

Comment #192778 by ReceivedTheGift

This discussion is going nowhere.
Can I be Al-Rawandi, can I, can I?

Well I am going to be anyway.

Time of death 08:10 UTC. Reason, "I can't answer your questions".

344. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192776 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 12:58 am

Comment #192765 by ReceivedTheGift

I did answer epeeists points. The origins of life does not matter in regards to Evolution? What then is your beginning point of Evolution?
Liar!

You were asked to show us your evidence for creation. You evaded this in an attempt to divert the thread into one on evolution.

Show me the answers to the five lemmas that I put forward in post http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2394,Lying-for-Jesus,Richard-Dawkins,page142#192734

345. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192764 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 12:42 am

Comment #192762 by ReceivedTheGift


There are plenty first hand accounts of Jesus and his miracles. Show me first hand accounts of any disputing of Jesus and his miracles.
You need to name some names and point us to some documents.

The gospels were written decades after the supposed Jesus lived by followers of his cult, none of whom had ever met him. Not first hand and hardly unbiased.

346. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192759 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 12:38 am

Comment #192743 by ReceivedTheGift


If you have any knowledge of history, there is quite a bit of secular historical accounts of Jesus. I assume you know this.
That would be a disputed claim in Josephus and...?
Can you prove the universe wasn't created? How then did it come about?
This isn't the way discourse works. You are claiming a specific deity. The burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate the basis of your claim. Evasion and the attempt to shift the burden simply shows how incredibly weak your case is.

347. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192734 by epeeist on June 14, 2008 at 12:18 am

Some little while back I put together a series of lemmas which have been used by others on the site. I repeat them here for RTG's benefit.

RTG - before we can accept Jesus (a figure who may or may not have existed any way) you have to show that:

  1. The universe was created
  2. It was created by a deity
  3. This deity is interventionist, omnipotent, omniscient and omni-benevolent
  4. This deity is the one worshipped in one small area of one small planet circling an ordinary star in a galaxy of 400 billion stars in a universe of 150 billion galaxies
  5. That all of this is documented in the holy book of a tribe of cattle sacrificing primitives


Until you can at least make an attempt at this then there is no reason for us to take you seriously whatsoever.

348. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192722 by epeeist on June 13, 2008 at 11:56 pm

Comment #192663 by phasmagigas

RTG has done the unholy three in one post:

insists evolution is all rather silly
then throws scripture
then prays for us.

it usually takes several posts to get that far but at the very least this person has shown in one post what a busy body they are.
Yes, just waiting for the last one. Getting his god to damn us to eternal torture.

Why is it that as soon as you become religious your vocabulary and grammar go completely to pot. "Degredated", what does that mean?

349. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192711 by epeeist on June 13, 2008 at 11:45 pm

Comment #192631 by ReceivedTheGift

Their bitterness and frustration is so apparent, it's if they have some deep rooted issues going on, besides the lack of confidence in their beliefs.
To follow in the honourable steps of Shayne Dark and Diacanu.

I am fucking sick of stupid, sanctimonious cunts telling me that I am bitter (are you listening David Robertson) because I haven't found Jesus. You know fuck all about me, so take your unwanted cloying humility and obsequiousness elsewhere.

If you want to believe that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and
telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humans because a woman made from a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree and thereby pissing off an invisible wizard who lives in the sky then fine.

Just don't bring such unsubstantiated shite here.

350. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #192539 by epeeist on June 13, 2008 at 10:34 am

Comment #192534 by The Reverend Dark


So Txpiper, Laughing boy, you base and cowardly smudge of Thora Hird on the otherwise spotless loo pan of intellectual endeavors; when do you think the global flood of Genesis took place?
Strange to say the varves in Green River don't seem to have any evidence for a flood either. Mind you, that may be because it only took a few days (hours, minutes?) to create all that oil shale.

www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/varve.ev.pdf

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