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Comments by mmurray


351. Good God! A politician who doesn't believe...

Comment #102126 by mmurray on December 21, 2007 at 4:00 pm

Have a look at the Clegg thread

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2047,Clegg-does-not-believe-in-God,BBC

if you are interested in why he is bringing up his children catholic. In the past the catholic church has always made it a condition of a non-catholic marrying a catholic in the catholic church that the non-catholic agree to raising the children as catholics. Of course they can't stop the couple marrying but if the marriage is not in a catholic church the catholic partner is living in mortal sin and will burn in hell for all eternity etc.

I couldn't guarantee that this is still the case but the catholic church tends to change its rules only slowly.

For those of you who are about to say that going to a catholic school does no harm remember he is bringing them up as catholics -- not the same as going to a catholic school.

Michael

352. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #101884 by mmurray on December 21, 2007 at 4:23 am

Christmas Carols: Just Say No.

One way to ease yourself out of a public carolling addiction is to only play christmas carols on your ipod or in the car when you are alone. That's what I do with my Cat Steven's CD's. Alternate them with something else until the effect wears off. Then move onto just whistling carols and trying not to think the words.

Giving up was easy for me as I hate public sing alongs anyway. To many years of singing hymns at mass and I can't sing.

Michael

353. 2007, a bad year for God squadders

Comment #101688 by mmurray on December 20, 2007 at 6:44 pm

We should forgive the grammatical mistakes. He clearly doesn't have both hands occupied by typing.

Michael

354. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #101154 by mmurray on December 20, 2007 at 2:42 am

I think some people are getting a bit excited about Catholic Schools and INDOCTRINATION!!! My parents are both atheists and quite happily sent me to a catholic school. Besides mass (which my sister and I wern't allowed to participate in) it was pretty much like any other school. I don't recall any particularly religious themes at all.

I'm fairly convinced 1/2 the teachers where atheists!

Basically I'm saying commiting to raising your kids Catholic is not like commiting to sending them to Jesus Camp. I'm sure Clegg is perfectly aware he can safely send his kids to Catholic school without the teachers going all Clockwork Orange on his kids


School is not the issue. Clegg says he is `committed to bringing my children up as Catholics'. He probably has to say this or his marriage would be effectively annulled in the eyes of the Catholic Church because he would not have entered into the marriage sincerely. He and his wife are then living in sin from the Churches point of view.

I doubt it has anything to do with politics. As others have pointed out the Social Democrats will never form government so politics is not the issue it would be if he was Conservative or Labour.

Schools of course vary. Mine was staffed 75% my Marist Brothers who I expect were not atheists :-)

Michael

355. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #101139 by mmurray on December 20, 2007 at 1:53 am


Children do think for themselves, all you have to do is use reason and leave it to them.


Of course. But you need to keep them away from people who don't want to `leave it to them'.

Michael

356. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #101111 by mmurray on December 19, 2007 at 10:00 pm


- the mother's family insisted upon it
- there were no good secular alternatives
- they couldn't afford private school or, as social democrats, rejected private schools on principle


The first of these is an interesting basis for a marriage. The others are good reasons except that Catholic schools are private schools well they are in Australia. I can't see how they can be public unless the government is Catholic.

I expect thought that the reason for his decision is simple. His wife wanted to be married in a Catholic church. If she isn't she would be in a state of mortal sin which is regarded as a bad thing you burn in hell for ever etc etc. The price for letting a non Catholic marry in the Catholic Church used to be conversion of the non Catholic but they are more moderate now. You just have to give them your first born, and second born etc. They like a lot of etc's of course.

Note again that this is not really about Catholic schools. He has not committed to send his kids to a Catholic school he has committed to `bringing my children up as Catholics' a very different thing.

Michael

357. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #101103 by mmurray on December 19, 2007 at 8:55 pm

Apart from the cultural benefits of understanding religious traditions that RD has been celebrating recently, kids get a lot of value from growing up understanding what other people believe and why they believe them. In fact, I expect that the best inoculation against silly ideas is to be exposed to many of them early and often.


That's fine. My kids are both doing this kind of thing at school. My youngest did a project on Hinduism, Islam and Judaism including visiting each type of place of workship.

But that is not the same thing at all as being "committed to bringing my children up as Catholics" . Consider the political equivalent. I am sure we would all hope our children learn about things like fascism at school but what would you think of a parent who was "committed to bringing my children up as Fascists" ?

Can someone from the US explain something? Is there no (comparative) religious education in public schools in the US of this type?

Michael

358. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #101032 by mmurray on December 19, 2007 at 6:50 pm

"Bringing the kids up Catholic" means baptism, first communion, confirmation, and an hour of CCD per week during the academic year. Oh and going to church on Sundays at least monthly-ish. It's not really a mind control thing. Or it wasn't in my case.


Monthly-ish ? What a wimp. Every Sunday thank you very much and regular confession and no meat on Friday's.

People shouldn't be too quick to assume Catholic teaching will have no effect because (they think) it had no effect on them. It all depends on the child. Yours might just decide to take it seriously and be damaged for life. In Australia many of the Catholic schools are single sex which I think is a bad idea even without the religion. And then there is the abuse. Not all sexual -- when I spent two years with the Marist Brothers some where keen on the cane. Probably that is illegal now.

But otherwise it is a great idea. Send them to a Catholic school.

Michael

359. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #100910 by mmurray on December 19, 2007 at 3:17 pm

The Roman Catholic church has a long-standing policy of requiring its deluded to get the prospective spouse to agree, prior to any commitment to a wedding, to bring up the children as Catholic. This is a non-negotiable condition for Catholics marrying non-Catholics. In theory at least, the deluded cannot remain Catholics if they cannot get the prospective spouse to agree to this condition. I.e. the penalty for non-compliance is excommunication.


For those lucky readers who aren't used to this kind of double-think I should point out that they could get married, just not in a catholic church, and then she would be living in sin from a catholic point of view. I think with my parents (father=catholic, mother=protestant) they satisfied all the criteria but still couldn't get married in the main part of the church.

Of course if you count the number of kids they have you can make a good guess as to whether they are following all required catholic practices.

Michael

360. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #100877 by mmurray on December 19, 2007 at 1:57 pm

My father was a Catholic, my mother a nominal protestant. They married in a Catholic church and my mother had to commit to bringing children up as Catholics. This may be the case with Nick Clegg.

Incidentally, my mother was not allowed to use the centre aisle in the church since she wasn't Catholic.


Yes same here. I thought maybe they had given up on that rubbish but it appears not.

To all those suggesting he is just looking for a good school for his kids that is rubbish. You can send your kids to a catholic school without `raising them catholic'. Mind you having been raised a catholic and attended some of the schools I would die before letting my children near either. This is the catholic church we are talking about not some wishy washy branch of C of E. He is just wimping out on his responsibility to look after his children. Do you really want that little spine in a future political leader ?

Someone needs to ask him what kind of contraception he is using.

Michael

361. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #100638 by mmurray on December 19, 2007 at 3:10 am

FYI my next instalment was just automatically paid by PayPal.

Michael

362. Jesus ad angers church groups

Comment #100548 by mmurray on December 18, 2007 at 9:33 pm

The gifts that the wise men were giving were appropriate for a king, so the notion that Jesus would reject them is absurd," Dr Davies said.


Yes. Beginning a discussion about what is absurd in the context of the nativity seems a little dangerous for a believer.

Of course they are leaping to the conclusion that they should be offended. Perhaps it is the phythonists who are being parodied.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj9MGrglUm8


Michael

363. Jesus ad angers church groups

Comment #100542 by mmurray on December 18, 2007 at 9:26 pm

If you follow the link at the top you can get back to the Adelaide Advertiser and make a comment and or vote.

Michael

364. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #100483 by mmurray on December 18, 2007 at 5:35 pm

I thought `cultural Christianity' worth a thread in the forums. So I have started one here:

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=31547


Michael

365. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #100392 by mmurray on December 18, 2007 at 2:50 pm

People might be interested in the thread over in the forums

How do I do a non-religious Christmas for my daughter ?

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=30810

Michael

366. Borders Tags Atheist Book with 'O Come All Ye Faithless' Cards

Comment #100373 by mmurray on December 18, 2007 at 2:33 pm

I don't know of a single athiest who would object to a nativity scene in a school or other public place.


I would.

Michael

367. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #100006 by mmurray on December 18, 2007 at 3:58 am

Cartomancer: That Danish King story is wonderful but unfortunately false.

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/denmark.asp

I used to believe this -- hazards or reading Leon Uris as a teenager!

Richard Morgan: Thanks for the list. Maybe we could add this to the website. "Take the cultural christian test and see how much of a cultural christian you are."


Singing Christmas carols? No but I hate public singing 'cos I can't.

Saying grace? Would sit silently if a guest and host was doing it.

Attending Midnight Mass with the family? Nope.

Saying prayers before going to bed? Nope.

Partaking of Holy Communion with the family? Nope.

Baptizing baby to give him a name, with god-parents and the whole caboodle because "it's the tradition in our family"? Nope.

You could add:

Getting married in a Church because they are so lovely. Nope.

Lying to priest about religious convictions to get married in Church because they are so lovely. Nope.

Swear on bible in court case as witness. Never been tested I would rather affirm.

Swear on bible in court case as defendant. Never been tested I would rather affirm.

Sending child to religious school because they are cheaper and the discipline is better. Nope.

Michael

368. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #99903 by mmurray on December 17, 2007 at 7:42 pm

I personally don't want to lend them any support. While the churches remain full of happy carol singers at Christmas the Church will think it is still winning. When it is all over and really is history I will be happy to sing. While the symbols still mean something I don't want to use them.

I also would rather not confuse my children by having mangers and christian symbols all over the place and then trying to explain to them that its traditional cultural context.

Would you say grace if someone asked (RD does). Would you say `amen' if someone else said grace. Would you get married in a church because it has such lovely stained glass windows ? Put a crucifix on your gravestone because it is traditiional ?

Some really needs to write `Etiquette for Atheists' :-)

Michael

369. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #99234 by mmurray on December 16, 2007 at 2:38 am

I have no interest in conspiratorial nonsense about 'taking it easy on the Christians'. The same kind of comparisons came up in the Pharyngula thread on this topic, and all it really highlighted is that people don't know that Australia is not as slammer-happy as America.


Agreed. Meyer's post on this is ridiculous. Oh well one less blog on my bookmarks list is probably a good thing.

Michael

370. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #99163 by mmurray on December 15, 2007 at 7:27 pm

Bonzai:

There are some news articles quoted above saying that York took the creationist side in the argument. Nothing I have seen says he was or claimed to be a christian. In the judgement nothing is said about who took what side.

Michael

371. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #98853 by mmurray on December 14, 2007 at 5:34 pm

Kakashi_monkey: A couple of news stories did cover that. If you read the other comments you can find the answer. I'm not sure where that came from as it isn't in the judgement.


If you are worried about the three years read the judgement I posted above.

Michael

372. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #98695 by mmurray on December 14, 2007 at 4:28 am

I'm with you USA_Limey. We don't even know this guy was a creationist. Have a read of the court judgement. For example:


6 As I have mentioned, the taxi's video recorder was operating and recorded a conversation between Mr Corner and the offender in which the latter expressed in sharp language his resentment of Ms Brown and Mr Boa, which focused on what he thought was their cadging of his alcohol and cannabis. It is obvious from the language he used and his tone of voice that he was angered by this.


For all we know he was feeling irritated with the other guy so chose the other side in an argument. The media are having fun making this a religious argument but the evidence is not there. I thought evidence was what we all prized on these boards ?

Michael

373. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #98646 by mmurray on December 14, 2007 at 1:37 am

Trying to link this sorry affair to religion is silly. If you read the court report I posted above you will find that two guys fell out in a pub. Later there is some pushing and shoving and unfortunately one of them seemed to forget he had a knife in his hand. An artery is knicked and the one without the knife in the hand dies.

Michael

374. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #98596 by mmurray on December 13, 2007 at 11:18 pm

If you read the court report I posted this seemed to be more an argument over booze and cannabis than religion and the actual killing was close to bad luck.

Michael

375. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #98577 by mmurray on December 13, 2007 at 10:06 pm

If you go to the actual court report

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/scjudgments/2007nswsc.nsf/6ccf7431c546464bca2570e6001a45d2/0173144ca9641164ca2573b000798f6a?OpenDocument

there is no mention of who supported what side of the argument.

Michael

376. Jail for creationist row killer

Comment #98574 by mmurray on December 13, 2007 at 9:56 pm

Another version on the web says

The couple, both biomedical scientists, had been arguing the case of evolution, while York had taken a more biblical view of history.


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=336784

Nice to have our prejudices confirmed about nasty creationists. :-)

Michael

377. Controversial Anti-Muslim Dutch Film Adds to Already Simmering Tensions

Comment #97653 by mmurray on December 12, 2007 at 1:34 pm

My two cents on this: It is fascinating, you know, that a certain type of supposed 'racist' only has trouble with one group; not with blacks, jews, asians, or any actual racial group, nor with Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Christian Arabs, Taoists, or Buddhists.

Only with one group.

I wonder why that is?


Because there is no political advantage in attacking these groups in Holland ?

Michael

378. 'Boycott Worked': Compass Flops - Opening Weekend $26 Million; Narnia $63 Million

Comment #96894 by mmurray on December 11, 2007 at 4:09 am

Interesting he only wants atheists to `ease up' on demonizing Catholicism -- so we can keep doing but just not so often ?

That letter from the Independent is rubbish. I saw a post on imdb by someone whose (Catholic) school had sent letters home to all parents advising them not to send their kids to the movie. There was also a report about the catholic schools in Canada pulling the books from the libraries while they reviewed them.

Michael

379. This deadly religious resistance to vaccinations

Comment #96879 by mmurray on December 11, 2007 at 3:23 am


Pardon my ignorance but just one quick question:

If there is an outbreak of say, measles, will this pose a threat to people who are vaccinated? Do measle and polio evolve like the flu virus, so that a vaccination only works against one strain?


According to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine

A shot at 12 months and a second (so-called booster) at around 4 or 5 is enough for lifetime immunity. I assume measles and polio are not evolving like flu.

Michael

PS: hungarianelephants comment is pertinent as well. Vaccination programmes are designed to confer sufficient immunity to stop the disease from spreading. That won't mean immunity for everybody just for enough people.

380. The art of the soluble

Comment #95740 by mmurray on December 9, 2007 at 4:47 am

Indeed, atheism - when you boil it down - is little more than dogma: simple denial, a refusal to take seriously the proposition that there could be more to the universe than meets the eye.


This is such utter crap. Atheism is about refusing to take seriously the proposition that there could be more to the universe than meets the eye unless someone produces some evidence.

You have to figure these people type these kinds of reviews with only one hand on the keyboard.

Michael

381. Richard Dawkins - Science and the New Atheism

Comment #95635 by mmurray on December 8, 2007 at 9:27 pm

Interesting to get some sales figures here for TGD. In the various threads about donating to help pay for Ayaan Hirsi Ali's security people raised the question of why she couldn't cover it herself with all the money she earnt from her book. If TGD sells 1.5 million I would have thought Infidel would have sold less than say 500,000. My guess is she wouldn't earn more than $5 a book which is $2.5 million which is the kind of amount suggested for one year of her security.

Michael

382. Of Dickens and Darwin

Comment #95633 by mmurray on December 8, 2007 at 9:16 pm


My bullshit detector blew a fuse when I read the words "a postmodern biology emphasizes cellular uncertainty, exhibited by Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle."


Well said. Mine started to twitch at

Postmodern science is a science based on disorder, complexity and indeterminancy, such as chaos theory.


What is postmodern science? I am surprised not to see a mention of `catastrophe theory' that other favourite with people who like to use big words without knowing what they mean.
Seems to have missed synergy and holistic as well. Tut tut.

Michael

PS: You can comment on the original site.

383. Colouring book warns kids of pedophile priests

Comment #95213 by mmurray on December 7, 2007 at 3:26 pm

It's not necessarily the fault of the church that these things occur either.


That would be fine but for the Churches spreading of very unhealthy ideas about human sexuality: celibacy, abstinence as a form of contraception etc. Even before we discovered the level of child abuse it was already clear that the Church was responsible for an enormous amount of suffering in the form of lives ruined by unnecessary guilt and psychological torment.

Michael

384. Springer opera court fight fails

Comment #94366 by mmurray on December 5, 2007 at 1:25 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hlMK7tCks


Fake beard anyone ?

Michael

385. Atheism's Wrong Turn

Comment #93353 by mmurray on December 2, 2007 at 8:05 pm

Santi:

Although I'm an atheist, I don't think the world would be a better place if there were no Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, or Christians in the world, anymore than I think it would be a better world if we all just spoke English, and all other languages died out.


You are an atheist but you think the world is enriched by people believing in religion. I don't agree.

People can fight their upbringing if they want to. They aren't entirely helpless, and they don't need the state to jump in and assist them at every turn. Ayann Hersi Ali fought her way clear of her upbringing. And Voltaire fought his way clear. And when I was a teenager I fought my way clear of my fundamentalist Christian beliefs, fearing hell and the loss of family and friends every step of the way.


But not everybody is as strong as Ayann or as you. Sometimes people need help and some of us think that providing that help is the role of the state. Of course this is an old political dispute.

Michael

386. Taking Science on Faith

Comment #92968 by mmurray on December 1, 2007 at 8:53 pm

Good reply here

http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN07/wn113007.html

Michael

387. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #90372 by mmurray on November 24, 2007 at 9:53 pm

ex-bahai

We spend less money and get more. How can we say no to that?


I don't see anyone saying no to your idea but so far it is just an idea. We can't donate to it because it doesn't exist yet.

Michael

388. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #90238 by mmurray on November 23, 2007 at 4:15 pm

Is this the same documentary as the one subtitled here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z82C10myBmM&feature=related

There is a lot of discussion around the internet on the question of her lies. She talks in her book about lying to get into Holland. I'm not particularly fussed.

Michael

389. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #90084 by mmurray on November 22, 2007 at 6:43 pm

We also pay her salary so that her schedule can be flexible and put the cause at first.

We spend less money and get more. How can we say no to that?


This is an interesting idea but you seem, so far, to lack her agreement to work for `us' (whoever we are) and to further `our cause' (whatever that might be). I only know what I read in her book book but she seems to be someone who has struggled very hard to become her own woman. I somehow doubt she wants to become our person.

You would also need to sort out who `we' are and what `our cause' is. The most charitable thing I can say about the posts on this site over the last few days is that that they suggest that settling these two questions would be a bit of a challenge on its own. There is an old joke in University circles that managing academics is like herding cats -- atheists seem similar.

Michael

390. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89537 by mmurray on November 21, 2007 at 3:11 am


Frankly I'm shocked that you think the possible loss of this one person more important than 20 or 30 unknowns


You misreading what I said. I said it would have a greater impact on the cause of freedom than those deaths or mine.

Michael

391. Frequently Asked Questions about the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Security Trust

Comment #89523 by mmurray on November 21, 2007 at 2:08 am


as presumably well paid job s


$2 mil a year, where can I join :-)

Seriously I understood she was a research scholar

http://www.aei.org/scholars/filter.all,scholarID.117/scholar.asp

I doubt she gets paid much more than a research scholar at an academic institution.


The arguement that this life is worth more than an anonymous life saved on a continent far away I find sick


The argument isn't about the relative worth of lives. But I think her being killed by a Jihadist will be devasting to the cause of freedom in a way that the 20 or 30 deaths that happened since I started typing this have not been. In a way that my death would not be.

Michael

392. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89177 by mmurray on November 19, 2007 at 11:45 pm


If she is not a beacon of truth and hope for oppressed women, how is she any different from the millions of outspoken women at risk everywhere? Why should she be singled out and protected at enormous cost? Given her obvious success and wealth, couldn't funds be more productively employed elsewhere?

I happen to think she is a beacon. I personally find her example inspirational, but I might be wrong.


Maybe the beacon thing is the appeal. She is a symbol of all the other outspoken woman we are never going to know about. I know there are many other injustices in the world but somehow I find the idea that a whole group of people can decide they have the right to kill you because they don't like that you have left the the religion that you got accidentally born into really barbaric. It is probably my Catholic upbringing -- go back a few hundred years and this could have been me.

Why does everyone think she is wealthy ? I can't see the books bringing in that much money.

Michael

393. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89163 by mmurray on November 19, 2007 at 11:12 pm

Here however, we must part company. There is a detailed case to be made against donating. There is the issue of returning to the Netherlands, the problem of the viability and practicality of providing round the clock bodyguards for anyone threatened directly and the perfectly legitimate questions about her actual efficacy as a representative in the Muslim world given her decade's long residency in various states in the west.

I don't see the efficacy argument. Let's assume she is useless -- what then ?


I've simply weighed the risk of giving to a potentially bad cause, against the LOE of further research and opted for giving as providing the best return for what I want, a secular world and the protection of an attractive and courageous woman.

So if she was ugly ?

Michael

394. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89158 by mmurray on November 19, 2007 at 10:25 pm

Where does this figure of four to six million come from? There are hundreds of public figures with security details, I wonder if they each have to shell out that much annually


In a previous thread

http://richarddawkins.net/article,1704,Hirsi-Ali-Returns-to-the-Netherlands-after-Losing-Body-Guards,Spiegel-Online

people were talking about three to six million. Now that I read that again the six apparently includes some other costs so maybe go for three.

I am happy to say I don't know anything about the cost of bodyguards but the claim there was they get paid up to $160 an hour and that she has two guarding at any time. So the calculation is

160 x 1.3 x 2 x 24 x 365 = $3,644,160

well on the way to $3,000,000. The 1.3 is the mutliplier for holidays, pensions etc that we would use in Australia.

I searched on the web for the protection costs of US presidents. I found this quote


The Secret Service does not disclose protection costs for former presidents for reasons of security, but a 2001 federal report said Secret Service protection for former presidents cost a total of about $24 million in 2000.

In 2000, the Secret Service was protecting former Presidents Nixon, Carter, Reagan, and Ford, their spouses, and Lady Bird Johnson, widow of former President Lyndon Johnson, who died in 1973.


I am not sure how to count that as the spouses will be with ex presidents sometimes but if you count them separately that is 9 people so about $2.7 million each. If you count them as 5 people that is more like $4.8 million each.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070107/NEWS09/70107004

Michael

395. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89153 by mmurray on November 19, 2007 at 9:29 pm


a) Given the huge sales of the book, why can't AHA afford the security herself?

I looked around the internet and couldn't find figures for the book's sales. I doubt she sees more than a few bucks from each book so can't see it adding up to four to six million a year.


c) She's a prime asset to her publishers. What is stopping them from protecting a lucrative source like her?


Again I doubt she makes them that much money. But I don't know the book trade. Can anyone enlighten us on this ?


d) Why doesn't the US govt grant her asylum and protection or send here back to Holland, where they are willing to protect her?


I don't see why she has to hide in Holland or why this is a Dutch problem. She should be protected wherever she goes.


I am also willing to contribute ten times that amount if she announces a lecture tour of a Muslim country.

You will need a lot more than that to keep her safe even if they give her a visa. What does a couple of marine divisions cost to rent?

Personally I don't see the argument that she is somehow obliged to spend her life improving the lot of Muslim women just because of an accident of birth. Neither do I see that others have the right to kill her because of that accident of birth. I was born a Catholic and left it. Luckily for me I live in a century where that decision isn't punishable by death.

Michael

396. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #89148 by mmurray on November 19, 2007 at 9:11 pm

I'm only an occasional visitor to this site and normally when I read through the comments on a story I find I learn something. But having come to this article knowing very little about Ayaan Hirsi Ali I find after over 100 comments that I'm not a great deal better informed which points to why I've found this discussion so depressing.


If you are after info about her the links at the bottom of the actual article are quite good.

I will support her by buying her book instead of getting it from the library. If it moves me... then maybe more.


I doubt she will see more than $5 of your money from the book purchase if that. But it is a book well worth reading.



Michael

397. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88851 by mmurray on November 19, 2007 at 4:26 am

If you say you value freedom of speech, the empowerment of women and fundamentalist Islam to be challenged now is a good opportunity to put your money where your mouth is.


Done.

Michael

398. URGENT APPEAL: Please Help Protect Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Comment #88843 by mmurray on November 19, 2007 at 4:08 am

Can someone put some numbers with this kind of comment

If I was well of financially I would support Ayaan but I would think with all the success of her book and being paid to speak at different venues she would be able to support her self.


The protection is supposed to cost four to six million. I can't believe she is earning this from book sales but I can't find any figures on the web for her book sales.

Michael

399. Malaysia firm's 'Muslim car' plan

Comment #87736 by mmurray on November 13, 2007 at 2:08 am

For those interested here is what the compass is about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla_compass

Michael

400. Malaysia firm's 'Muslim car' plan

Comment #87687 by mmurray on November 12, 2007 at 9:05 pm


So you could prostate yourself and

I hope you mean prostrate -- otherwise I am not sure what prostate yourself means ...

By the way why does it have a compass and not GPS ? How do you use a compass to find Mecca ? Surely you have to know where you are before the compass bearing is any use. What happens if you are at the antipodal point to Mecca -- guess you can pray in any direction.

(OK wiki answered my question you have to know where you are to know the bearing relative to north.)

Michael

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