351. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155300 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 4, 2008 at 10:06 am

Mathew 16:15-20
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

If you really want a gamble, why not?

352. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155288 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 4, 2008 at 9:55 am

What I am trying to find out is how you made your choice - based on what evidence?

The best answer I've heard to that was
"I have a simple faith and I have a personal relationship with God. How could that relationship be so real if I wasn't talking to the right God?"

353. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155276 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 4, 2008 at 9:44 am

Look at the stories of Jesus' encounters with people from all walks of life in the gospels. They came to him out of their need, and, reading their hearts he accepted them

"It is not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs" (Mark 7:27)

""If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. 38 If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. 39 If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it." (Mathew 10:37-39)

""What sorrow awaits you, Korazin and Bethsaida! For if the miracles I did in you had been done in wicked Tyre and Sidon, their people would have repented of their sins long ago, clothing themselves in burlap and throwing ashes on their heads to show their remorse. 22 I tell you, Tyre and Sidon will be better off on judgment day than you. 23 "And you people of Capernaum, will you be honored in heaven? No, you will go down to the place of the dead.[g] For if the miracles I did for you had been done in wicked Sodom, it would still be here today. 24 I tell you, even Sodom will be better off on judgment day than you." (Mathew 11:21-24)

"3 Jesus replied, "And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4 For instance, God says, 'Honor your father and mother,'[a] and 'Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.'[b] 5 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, 'Sorry, I can't help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.' 6 In this way, you say they don't need to honor their parents.[c] And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. 7 You hypocrites!.." (Mathew 15:3-70

I could go on but this Jesus guy. Bit of a temper.

354. Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Comment #154714 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 3:38 pm

Poor people. They genuinely believe it. How much has the rantings of a mad man in Revelations got to account for.

355. Expelled Overview

Comment #154674 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 2:58 pm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6037708729636407580

Pinker: Jews, Genes and Intelligence

If that link ever decays http://www.cjh.org/programs/programarchives.php

356. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154663 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 2:51 pm

I just cringe every time I see someone insinuate that America is a democracy.

Yes as do I, and I'm not an American citizen.

357. Pastor attacks scientist's talk

Comment #154659 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 2:46 pm

"advance a polemic", or controversial argument

Wow that's patronising.

358. Pastor attacks scientist's talk

Comment #154650 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Steve Zara

I would be interested to know in what sense Richard Dawkins was controversial as a scientist.

"the most reductionist of sociobiologists". The defence of the blank state caused a lot of vitriol. Steven Pinker's The Blank State is a good place for a brief history.

359. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #154536 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 12:10 pm

http://www.edge.org/video/dsl/trivers.html

There we go

360. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #154534 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Nice studies on self-deception as an evolutionary advantage. I'm just off to find the couple I've read.

361. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154524 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:51 am

Didn't you hear that four homosexual couples planned to have sex at an airport hotel in New York, to create sensual pleasure on a scale approximately equal to the pleasure created by four heterosexual couples in that hotel on the same night? Doesn't that send your Scare Meter into the Unprecedented zone?

** SHIVER **

362. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154520 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:49 am

Yeah it is often said the only people who talk about God are atheists.

363. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154516 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:47 am

Yeah Dan Savage is fantastic. His bits on Bill Maher are the only reason I ever really watch the show to be fair. (Bill Maher is really amateur and ignorant).

364. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154513 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:43 am

The 72 virgins claims is bogus isn't it though? There is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and aren't the "dark-eyed damsels" available to all Muslims, not just martyrs.
There is a Hadith that says 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah to Sana'a'."

EDIT:BUT the only way to get the virgins is to get to heaven, and the only way to be certain of getting to heaven is to die in Jihad.

365. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154507 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:37 am

"Studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades. So it's the death knell of this country. I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat… If you got cancer or something in your little toe, do you say, well, you know, I'm just going to forget about it because the rest of me is fine? It spreads. OK? And this stuff is deadly, and it's spreading, and it will destroy our young people, it will destroy this nation."

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/11/headlines#6

Actually her reasoning isn't that bad if you accept her premise: "Studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades. So it's the death knell of this country."

I've found this site that deals with what threats homosexuality could pose.

Does Homosexuality Pose a Threat to Society?
By Dr. Niclas Berggren
http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/threat.htm

366. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154502 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:28 am

Al. Yes surely the ultimate destructive force imaginable. Gay terrorists.

367. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154500 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:25 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7328892.stm

Page last updated at 17:30 GMT, Thursday, 3 April 2008 18:30 UK

Eight men planned to detonate bombs aboard flights from London across the Atlantic to create deaths on an almost unprecedented scale, a court has heard.

Homemade devices were to be smuggled on to passenger aircraft and detonated mid-flight, Woolwich Crown Court heard.

Prosecutor Peter Wright QC said the men planned to inflict heavy casualties, "all in the name of Islam".

Yeah homosexuality is more dangerous than terrorism.

368. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154492 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:00 am

The easiest way to show this kind of nonsense up is just to quote Leviticus at them:

* Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)


* Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)


* Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)


* Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)


* Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)


* If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10)


* If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)


* If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)


* If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16)


* If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)


* Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)


* If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)


* People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)


* Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)



Source: http://biblebabble.curbjaw.com/laws.htm

369. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #153246 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 1, 2008 at 9:30 am

This story has barely touched the mainstream press. A google news search shows Canada, of course naturally, is the most active

370. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #152934 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 6:19 pm

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/27/news/UN-GEN-UN-Rights-Council.php

A better report

371. Vote on freedom of expression marks the end of Universal Human Rights

Comment #152916 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 5:43 pm

western delegations who, shockingly, did not even vote against today's travesty, but abstained.

372. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152908 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 5:33 pm

What a strange system you are proposing. What would your limit be a citizen for less than 2 years 3.7 years 2 generations 5 generations? No its a fuzzy unworkable unethical system.

I refer you to the news report I quoted in my previous report.

373. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152900 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 5:25 pm

What do you propose you do with an immigrant that actively tries to subvert democracy that tries support honor killings, that has 3 wives, that patronizes extremist mosques, that vocalizes support for al-Qaeada, that calls Jews "Apes and Monkeys"? What do you do?

People are allowed to support what they want with their own thoughts. There is no such crime as thought crime. Supporting them with action, money or any form of indirect/direct support is a crime and should be dealt with in the way all crimes are dealt with. Free speech means defending speech you disagree with and there are laws to deal with speech that provokes action.

Someone who supports the murder of children with his voice and his money should be sent home if he is from a different country.

Should be prosecuted as a criminal yes, but sent "home"? I've never understood this notion at all. Has home anything to do with his/hers crime? It is possible, but a citizen is a citizen fullstop. Take a recent case where the chicken comes home to roost as it were.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7306300.stm

Australia deports UK paedophile

Raymond Horne
Horne, seen with his head covered, does not have Australian citizenship

Paedophile arrives
A serial paedophile has arrived in the UK after being deported from Australia at the end of a 12-year jail term.

Raymond Horne, who was met by police at Heathrow on arrival, reportedly moved from the UK to Queensland in 1952 aged five and started offending in the 60s."

What a strange system you are proposing. What would your limit be a citizen for less than 2 years 3.7 years 2 generations 5 generations? No its a fuzzy unworkable unethical system.

374. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152884 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 5:07 pm

Kucinich was the best candidate on the ticket (this is someone across the pond speaking) but Ron Paul no he holds vile views and ultranationalist who rejects international authority, proposed getting out of the UN, and according to (possibly shrills but) a racist.

375. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152881 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 5:02 pm

People who are a threat to our democracies should be ejected from the state.

This is where I lose respect for al. I have enjoyed our discussions about Israel and agree and/or respect many of his opinions but this is where he loses me. Its reactionary and ill-considered.

376. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152878 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 5:00 pm

The fact is many of these young Jihadists had never lived a day outside their comfortable middle Class Western lifestyle. They wouldn't know what it is like to be in Iraq or Palestine. If they mention "British foreign policies" at all, it is almost an afterthought.

I agree with your point about globalisation, and that Islamic ideology has a lot to do with most of the "home grown" jihadists. I take exception in that a comfortable middle class western lifestyle does not exclude from resenting injustice. That is snobbery.

377. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152864 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Lucas
You might be interested in The political compass

http://www.politicalcompass.org/index

378. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152838 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 4:04 pm

You sound like my ex-wife.
Sorry about that.
I'm going, my coat is on, the car-keys jingling....

That is fine Richard. By the way I enjoy your music.

379. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152827 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 3:44 pm

Power, like a mentally retarded child, requires clear, well-defined, concrete constraints. "Hate" is too elastic a concept for those in power over us. And the notion of crimes against broad social groups with fuzzy boundaries like "the Jews" or "the Muslims" is not workable.

Hate speech laws ultimately will erode our right to free speech.

Yes could not agree more. You grant the power to people we like you grant it also to those that you do not. You grant it to one you grant it to all.

Power is always illegitimate until it can bear the burden of proof.

380. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152825 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 3:43 pm

How to deal with Islamic fundamentalists, and for that matter, although less urgently, all fundamentalists?

It is first best to state that I think this is a problem that can only be solved, as fundamentalism is too entrenched, at the generational level, and that of course means the change is going to have to occur within education. It is a specific kind of education that poisons fundamentalism's well. That is Historical, Anthropological and Scientific education and particularly critical thinking with an emphasis on human fallibility.

Unfortunately the well is still brimming and with the institutionalisation of faith schools in Britain, and the segregation of populations its hard to overstate the echoes that the current educational policies in Britain will have in future generations.

381. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152817 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Just as a slight aside although I do not want to disrupt the flow of this particular debate. Does anyone know what kind of threats LiveLeak received. I know they were obviously death threats but have they published the threats. Any verification?

382. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152810 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Well there have been 10,000 deadly Muslim perpetrated terror attacks since 9/11. That is about 4.5 per day, I don't think the willingness to kill non-Muslims is at issue here.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

Most in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel etc i.e war zones. That has to be as massive factor to take into account, too huge to throw around those kind of statistics without that caveat.

383. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152804 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 2:59 pm

ability to survive as a race

Could you clarify what you mean by that. I assume you mean Human race, at least I hope you do.

EDIT: Ah good!

384. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152796 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 2:51 pm

I tell the liberals here, "The fundamentalists will take your little 'coexist' bumper sticker and bind your hands with it before they flail away at you neck with a sword."

Surely it is more accurate to say fundamentalists who are actually willing to follow through with their pronouncements. We all know, I'm sure, racists who endlessly regale people with tales of the coming civil war, and how they dream of brutally maiming and killing those brown people (choose your skin colour or nationality or religious affiliation). How many, what percentage would actually carry out the attacks? I don't think its something anyone can say with any certainty.

385. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152791 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 2:46 pm

Almost every generation predicts the end of times. Wasn't there something about that in the Bible...?
It seems strange I wonder what the explanation is? What could its evolutionary purpose (or what is it a bi-product of) be?

386. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152785 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 2:38 pm

The invasion of Iraq was supposedly because of WMD, but I suspect it was because of OIL.

It always seems like a cheap point but it is undoubtedly true. That and as a home for permanent American military bases.

387. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152781 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 2:34 pm

Sorry if my analogy with government and power interests wasn't clear, by elite I mean the people with the power. The practices of Islam will only change from the top down as is the nature of the beast.

388. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152774 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 2:28 pm

Surely it is a problem with the priestly class though al. Just as Britain and America's ghastly foreign policy is a problem made by the elite, that can only be solved by the destruction of elite's power, is not also the case with Islam.

389. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152766 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 1:50 pm

That has in no way turned me off the British at all, I have in fact learned to embrace many of their habits, enjoy their inside jokes, but also learnt to ignore the ignoramus who referred to my kind as the Hun, or worse.

Societies are not homogeneous entities. In the information age you, in my opinion, have to view people as individuals. I'm very doubtful there is even British habits and inside jokes beyond anything more than the references people use, which in the information age is becoming less provincial.

How to deal with Islamic fundamentalists, and for that matter, although less urgently, all fundamentalists? It is first best to state that I think this is a problem that can only be solved, as fundamentalism is too entrenched, at the generational level, and that of course means the change is going to have to occur within education. It is a specific kind of education that poisons fundamentalism's well. That is Historical, Anthropological and Scientific education and particularly critical thinking with an emphasis on human fallibility. Unfortunately the well is still brimming and with the institutionalisation of faith schools in Britain, and the segregation of populations its hard to overstate the echoes that the current educational policies in Britain will have in future generations. It is indeed a scary time.

Solidarity beyond the tribe requires a specific upbringing; humans need to undergo the civilising process before they are capable of such emotions. The sweep of human history is dominanted by the marked absence of these qualities.

This as wrong as Bush's comment about 'the desire for freedom that God has placed in every human heart'. The desire for freedom is an achievement of long and terrible millenia.

The struggle was getting the elites boot of our necks.
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
- Denis Diderot
How true.

390. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152659 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 10:02 am

Not quite. You can admire the basic values of a nation and take pride in trying to live according to them. You can take pride in a history and try to do it justice.

We have universal ideals that it seems are part of human nature. Solidarity, sympathy and concern for others, a instinct for freedom etc. Basic human solidarity.

It's like calling freedom an American or British value. Superfluous and incorrect.

391. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152650 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 9:46 am

And this form of loyalty is so convenient isn't it? No need to stand up for anything. No chance it might require you to risk your life on the field of battle, or anything that requires real devotion. No, all it requires is a generalised warm and fluffy feeling.

But here's the other problem. There are people in this world who have zero qualms about building a ferocious tribal solidarity, and some of those have itchy fingers looking at anything that isn't part of the tribe. They don't give a damn about trite quotations. And when they turn their eyes towards the patch of earth you, irate_atheist happen to inhabit, you'd better hope like hell that there's alot of people in that patch who share a fundamental loyalty to crown or flag. Unless you think you can face down millions of fanatics on your own.

Commitment to ideals and solidarity to other humans do not depend on, and are positively corrupted by, idiotic devotion to a crown or flag.
"I'm proud to be [choose your county]".

What a ridiculous thing to be proud of. Pride is something earned not a mere accident of birth.

392. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152642 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 9:38 am

Well done LiveLeak.

http://www.liveleak.com/contact_us

If you wish to send messages of support. I have.

393. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152629 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 9:18 am

Yes Steve there are exceptions we're on a site that is named after one such example. Criticism of Islam isn't in The Guardian or The Independent, its in the Daily Mail, The Sun and The Telegraph. Its like a lot of issues that threaten multiculturist dogma, called cultural sensitivity, that associates criticism of immigration, Islam etc to right wing scum. Until those are decoupled and the kind of honest criticism of religion is mainstream that association will and does stifle discussion.

394. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152618 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 9:06 am

Isn't that the scariest thing with the Iran situation. That if the Bush administration do decide to carry out a tactical air strike of Iran (probably through Israel) the consequences would be incalculable. Perhaps the destruction of most of the Middle East?

395. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152614 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 9:02 am

The only corners that criticise Islam are the very right-wing often racist vile xenophobes. Its the unfortunate ill of our times that the ones fighting the battle are not the left, which used to be something to be proud of, but the right, the far right.

396. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152597 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 31, 2008 at 8:44 am

Why isn't RichardDawkins.net hosting the video? Surely as many sites as possible should host the video to show support for freedom of speech?

397. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152288 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 30, 2008 at 3:54 pm

I assume the ill informed reporting the LiveLeak cites as a reason for the withdrawal comes from the upstanding and considered source the Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=548528&in_page_id=1770
Dutch MP Geert Wilders claims to be all about freedom of expression - but is he about to engulf Britain in a holy war?

398. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152277 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 30, 2008 at 3:37 pm

Fitna accuses Islam of being a violent religion. Well that's been proven to be lies and propaganda by the insidious mendicant Geert Wilders hasn't it. Islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion.
Oh wait....

Islam World's Biggest Religion

There will be a massive uprising of peace loving Muslims to denounce the threats of violence and crippling of free speech. Let us hope.

399. Beware the Believers

Comment #152233 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 30, 2008 at 1:57 pm

High Defintion Version if anyone is interested
http://www.mininova.org/tor/1278276

400. Beware the Believers

Comment #152226 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on March 30, 2008 at 1:29 pm

We might have lost at Scopes, beaten down by the dopes, and the stooges of popes, but in losin' we coped, becomin' more than we hoped, creationists slipped on the soap of their own slippery slope.

That line shows I was wrong. The the moustache thing was clutching at straws I agree.