351. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #257322 by hawt4dawk on September 30, 2008 at 10:10 am

Steve, Mitchell, Roots -- good points

Mitchell -- I used the idea of finding out that I had a friend who hangs out with the the Ku Klux Klan to make a point. The Ku Klux Klan, however, do use words like "nigger" and "coon" and happily discuss ways to kill people with dark skin. What's the difference?

352. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #257303 by hawt4dawk on September 30, 2008 at 9:52 am

Al -- Well, that's cool. It might be fun to watch you being wrestled to the ground. ;)

I'm lady meerkat! Jeez. Speciesist!

353. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #257298 by hawt4dawk on September 30, 2008 at 9:45 am

Al -- Did it ever occur to you that the men may be slow to complain due to male dominance one-up/one-down issues and to complain might put you one-up? Doesn't make female complaints invalid.

354. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #257284 by hawt4dawk on September 30, 2008 at 9:21 am

So rebut his posts, prove them WRONG. Show people why they are wrong. There is one problem you can't! You simply don't like how they make you feel, so you should shun Fanusi. Show me where he has said something racist, or where he has been wrong.

Al --

Why should Sharon do this when you ignored my having pointed out that Fanusi, regardless of his true (unknown) feelings, gave tacit agreement to some of the vilest ideas and language possible?

**edit mistakes**

355. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #257269 by hawt4dawk on September 30, 2008 at 9:01 am

Quetzalcoatl - I thought everything that came from you was gold, quote-mined or not. :)

About Fanusi:

(no sleep last night again)

I spent some time researching hate sites last night and I even went on Stormfront to see if I could find something comparable to Misha's "rant" and actually couldn't! Maybe 'cos I didn't have the secret decoder ring.

Misha's was hate rhetoric for sure, as defined by the people who monitor that on the web and study it at universities. However, I didn't see anything else of his that came close to that level of vileness in other posts. He's definitely an equal opportunity racist though calling Chinese gooks and so on. It's also a shame that such a quality fellow as Fanusi feels comfortable with that.


I thought RDnet people in this thread argued about this issue based on both moral revulsion and reason, which informs them Misha's behavior is wrong. If we did not have emotional and moral reactions to things we found repulsive and disturbing, it would impair our ability to make rational decisions about everything. Everything would be relative.


Al, I'm sorry, but it seems you often criticize people for being emotive and **coughsyouaretoocoughs**. Sometimes that's a valid argument, but sometimes it's a way to manipulate and dominate someone when they're having emotions one doesn't like.

I dread to see you angry. I have respect for you and agree with some of your arguments, but your style is intimidating to me. I thought I'd let you know for what it's worth. You're the only one here that I feel that way about.

Fanusi's "out" now as super-conservative and he's still welcome, in my opinion. I'd far rather Fanusi had been more open about who he is the whole time, because having a real sense of where he was coming from might have prevented people for thinking the worst of him. Perhaps Fanusi thought he'd lose credibility for his views on Islam, but that happened anyway at times.


As for Steve's concerns, I worried about that yesterday, but I think new people will relate to Fanusi based on their own values and critical thinking.


I thought Fanusi's posts on Doggie-doo **smiles** show he's more open about who he is there, so he is more relaxed, less antagonistic and condescending in arguments, etc., all which would lead him to have a more positive experience there. That's just based on what I saw.

Good on most of those folks over there for not wanting to take the pitchfork to him because of his atheist viewpoint. That's a hopeful thing.

356. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #257257 by hawt4dawk on September 30, 2008 at 8:42 am

Laurie -- I also thought the attack on you was disturbing, but a diversion, and not worth addressing until after you'd had a chance to respond. I thought your responses were concise and strong. Good man. :)


I do understand Al's concerns about the U.S. and Hezbollah/Hamas thing. I don't think they can be compared, because their behaviors are not equally complex. They do both engage in terroristic violence, but Hezbollah, for instance, does not readily give millions and millions in dollars in aid to other countries, put much of their wealth into military power, with which they will defend their allies at great personal and financial cost, thus allowing said allies not to have to make similar defense expenditures, which in turn also benefits their economies. U.S. does act in self-interest, particularly with regard to oil, which is not grounds for just war and then turns around and calls those who do the same "terrorists". Nonetheless, the terrorists are still terrorists. What's okay for El Patron isn't really okay for some group who does nothing positive for anyone else at all. Although, I am 100% with you on believing and hoping that different measures or more innovation could bypass the need for such moral compromise and hypocrisy on the part of the U.S. (How else to secure the nation and its allies when you run your war machines on a resource that your enemy get rich from selling you? What a dilemma!)But the U.S don't want to destroy any one particular group of people and that's pretty important. If Hezbollah and Hamas are equally morally complex to the U.S., I haven't heard about it and I'd appreciate being corrected. Or if it doesn't matter that they are.. same. I am quite, quite sure you are aware of all that yourself, but I wanted to make the points. Thanks.

357. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256728 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 12:39 pm

Al - I feel he has hurt the cause by his association and tacit agreement with vile hate rhetoric, very much so. This is not about Islam and Jihadis (for once), a danger we almost all agree on wholeheartedly. This is about racism and integrity and trust.

Now, I've got to go. Check with you all later.

358. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256723 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Sciros -

Since I feel the need to brighten up a bit before I go, just want to let you know we've got it covered.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0811855511/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

When I saw this I laughed and laughed and felt really happy. Take a look at the rest of the excerpt. Cheers!

359. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256721 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 12:27 pm

Al

I read through all of Fanusi's comments linked by titania. Nothing there suggests he agrees with the awful comments by others. I need that to be demonstrated. Fanusi simply being there is not enough, I am afraid.

He is not "simply being there". He does not even take a neutral position or ignore such a hideous remark, but replies to Misha (including remarks about Muslims being filled with hot lead) with a remark about the a return to the gates of Vienna (a comment about an historical European military victory). He gives tacit agreement.

360. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256717 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Al -

If I have a friend that I find out hangs out with the Ku Klux Klan, I feel betrayed. I feel I don't know them.

As for your attack on liberals by way of defending Fanusi (I do not fault you for loyalty), this is from what I wrote to Fanusi in private message. It bears repeating here.

Finally, "liberals" whom you seem to so despise, far from [just] being ridiculous people who like to dance around in costumes with gay people, fight and die for security and freedom in the millions.

361. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256690 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 11:05 am

3514. Comment #256469 by Titania

I am stunned and sickened by the contents of Misha's post.


I had already discovered this connection after Mitchell mentioned that Fanusi had a blog, but I thank you Titania for the further investigation.


I had been processing the implications of Fanusi's connections to that site and his participation on RDnet for a day or two, but I had entirely missed this content.

It breaks my heart, honestly.

Al -- What is one of Fanusi's favorite quotes? Something about "All it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing."

Look at the two posts again in Titania's comment and tell me how we can come to terms with Fanusi's integrity here on RDnet.

362. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #256671 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 10:19 am

Goatboy36 -- Would you go to a party at Richard Dawkins and tell a fellow guest with possible depressive tendencies to slit their wrists?


Diacanu -- NEVER DO THAT! The death by suicide of a loved one is one of the most devastating personal losses a person can suffer.


TWP -- Glad to hear you're well! Just want you to know that our business (selling sexbots to lonely fellas) has totally tanked in your absence. :)

edited to remove sentence.

363. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #256661 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 10:01 am

Roots, greetings! Thank you for the reply. I haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet.

I agree with you about not forgetting invasion's cost to so many Iraqis. When individuals are killed, there are that many and more who suffer from their loss as well.

364. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #256654 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 9:56 am

108. Comment #256013 by alan N

I would agree with you wholeheartedly. I spoke with an Iraqi man in the mall one day and I apologized for what my country had done to his country. He was surprised. I asked what he thought of troop withdrawal and he replied that it would be a very bad thing, because the civil war, barely being contained now, would erupt into a bloodbath.

I think complete troop withdrawal would not be a moral, viable choice if it leaves the Iraqis vulnerable to that.

But the war with jihadis needs to be changed to a cheaper venue so that the Iraqis can have peaceful civil life again. What do you think? Do you still have family in Iraq?

edited for left-out sentence.

365. The world according to Hitchens

Comment #256630 by hawt4dawk on September 29, 2008 at 9:39 am

Lucas --

It's worse than you think.

The 700 Club on Christian Broadcasting airs in nearly 90 million homes and averages about one million viewers on a daily basis.

That's only one source for the idea that the prophesied "world government" will take the form of the U.N. and be led by the Anti-Christ.

I watched the show one time and they had a picture of Kofi Annan in the background while they discussed the anti-Christ.

Also, authors of the enormously successful fiction series about the Rapture, "Left Behind", had to go on record saying they didn't think Obama was the anti-Christ.

366. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255861 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Yah, GoatBoy36 -- Things start to feel unreal after sleep deprivation. The Israeli Army says it's the best way to get info out of people! Well, I heard that anyway.

367. Ministers to Defy I.R.S. by Endorsing Candidates

Comment #255802 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 8:55 am

Jesus86

That any regular poster on this website could brag about having studied Marxism their whole lives and still find it the least bit compelling beggers belief. There can be no stronger testiment to the power of faith over reason.

Absolute bull. And I can say this not even having studied it myself! People who study economics and philosophy study Marxism -- and particularly Marxist theory as it has developed since Marx -- and many, many prosperous countries have applied socialist principles to increase the standard of living in their own styles variations of mixed-economy.

To scornfully dismiss the importance of his ideas, whatever the practicality of full application, which has never occurred, is either pure ignorance or pure political propaganda designed to promote typical pro-laissez-faire Capitalism, which itself has failed spectacularly (see The Great Depression). While I am at this point in my education, I am still pro-Capitalism, but I cannot let your libertarian propagandizing here go unremarked. Don't believe it, kids, study it for yourself!


Ty90 -- so glad you have an open mind and are hungry for knowledge. Me, too! Just beware that there are people get paid by think-tanks and other political groups to post on blogs and forums to get across a political agenda.

Some people just do it out of their own political passion, which is what I think Jesus86 does. Good for you, Jesus86, follow your heart! But please don't misrepresent issues to convince uncertain people. Preach from a position of integrity and it will make you stronger.

edit -- Jesus86 - I'm not trying to sound patronizing, sorry, but I think you are intelligent enough to see that that's what it looks like. Otherwise, I thought your post was interesting.

368. Ministers to Defy I.R.S. by Endorsing Candidates

Comment #255797 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 8:35 am

DP - you lost me on that last one. It seems you're arguing dogmatically now by trying to nitpick some very clear points. Your original premise seemed to be that the rich are being victimized and Riley has shown they're clearly not.

The rich are not being overtaxed and will not be especially burdened even if taxes go back up to a level they were at seven years ago. They have ways to and do shelter themselves (no onus of evidence is on anyone to prove that) while being able to live a far higher quality of life than most people living under the $50,000 mark. Many well below even that. I don't understand your point that it doesn't matter if the rich can shelter themselves, because some may not. The main point of tax talk at election time is how it will effect business and how it will help the middle class and poor. This is what a responsible society does: work together. The poor and middle class living under $50,000/annual are a very tight bind economically, indeed, with prices the way they are.They are really struggling financially right now. Even in a capitalist society, a responsible civilized upper class should be prepared to give more to the common wealth to protect the lower and middle classes from being hurt.

Riley's - Thanks for that post. It was very clear and helpful.

edit for clarity

369. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255785 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 8:11 am

3240. Comment #255746 by Bonzai

Anyone watched the Obama-McCain debate? What do you think?

sorry this is a little long.

Obama... he was never my candidate but I felt reassured that he could do the job after the debate

-He seemed presidential, calm, articulate and clear on the issues.
-I was clear on where he stood on the issues except what could be specifically done regarding the financial crisis*

*quick note of interest: My uncle is the financial manager for a medium-sized U.S. city and he says it's bad, it's not just a crisis affecting the banks, because most large businesses are affected due to their investments of payroll money in paper. Not sure how it works, invested payrolls could be lost. The government needs to act quickly, but carefully and require oversight.

back to Obama

-he was informed and committed to making "the wars" productive by focusing energy on destroying Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan


McCain...
-not clear on where he stood
-have no idea what he will really do about Iraq because his whole point was about we owe it to the troops to "win". Not a clear a policy.
-He smirked constantly throughout, which made him seem contemptuous and of an ugly temperament (I heard, but don't know for sure, that even his supporters didn't care for it)
-- he spent more time attacking Obama than outlining his positions clearly
- good thing: he didn't seem particularly frail & he didn't exhibit any memory issues or befuddlement, which have been concerns of mine
-one only had to do quick googles to see that he was repeatedly dishonest
-he tells a rather dishonorable lie about having vet support*

*A note on the vets: I get constant email from votevets and other vet related groups, so I know there is a large movement of vets against McCain. Presenting oneself as the candidate for vets when you have repeatedly voted against them is quite disgusting in my opinion.


An issue of serious concern for Republican voters, not that they can do anything about it now, unfortunately: Obama has whole-hearted support in his party, which McCain truly doesn't. I don't think a lot of people who like McCain for being "a maverick" realize the implications of this for his being truly effective.

Can I be long-winded and give you a little of my own political analysis on the "maverick" thing?

"Maverick" is a dog whistle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics
for Americans. I suppose most people know that. My mom drove a blue Maverick in the 70s, which despite the recession at the time, was still a time of greater prosperity for most Americans -- before we took the hit of having our embassy taken over by Iran. I think it was also a popular TV show about a cowboy starring lovably gruff James Garner (also a spokesman for the beef industry). Also the name of kind of boat (boating on rivers is a popular American middle class pastime).


My opinion about John McCain saying "horseshit" in response to Obama's assertion that McCain had said he wouldn't meet diplomatically with Spain, of all countries, is that he doesn't have command of himself and what will he say under pressure when dealing with foreign leaders? I was totally shocked. That's my conservative side coming out. A little decorum really suits a Presidential candidate. "Horseshit" is not a cute, homey American phrase. It's stupid.

Even if we are in the geopolitical position right now as a world leader, we can't be and aren't respected. We simply cannot have security as a nation without being respectable and responsible. For me, having integrity, being respectable and having good manners is an entry-level requirement for a world leader.

It is unacceptable to me in the 21st Century to have a serious candidate who uses "horseshit" in a formal setting and who also has a running mate who is apparently afraid of witches.

Sorry for the verbosity, but wanted to offer my perspective for those living outside the U.S. in particular.

370. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255764 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 6:54 am

Glad that's sorted out a bit.

Having read briefly about the philosophes and the social developments fueling the Enlightenment yesterday, I was thinking about the nature of an ongoing salon-type atmosphere as it applies to forum-type situation. Two possible difficulties which could compromise the peace:

Some people read the threads differently and how you read them does make quite a bit of difference to having a full understanding.

There will always be a freshly upset person sliding into the argument from the I've-just-read-about-the-dangers-of-Islam chute (I slid down the End of Faith chute myself), who won't know the history of the argument between Steve and Fanusi. It would help, if at least between those two, some sort of mutual agreement existed not to let a new interlocutor disturb the peace between them, i.e., not get upset and start initiating old upsetting attacks.


Decius -- got a laugh out of me!

Mitchell --

heart poundingly adorable water meerkats!

**flutters eyelashes** How did you know I am a water meerkat!? Amazing powers of ... whatever that's called.

Also, Nice point about Diacanu.

371. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255672 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 2:20 am

Fanusi -- So you didn't read the whole exchange? Well, whatever. I'm tired of this. We can talk some other time. I don't want to watch you guys get into it again, which I feel is coming.

But before I go, I will say this:
Is Diacanu insulting to you? Absolutely. Do I think Diacanu's participation is on a par with yours and your partners' contemptuous tone in lengthy post after lengthy post. No way. Do you want me to tell Diacanu to lay off you? Diacanu, if everybody tones down the contempt, will you? It won't help if just one person does it, because when contempt is introduced into conversation it actually raises cortisol levels and then one can't actually process information or "listen/read" well. Anger is one thing. Choices words depending on how they are used is another, but contempt destroys communication.

Look, do me the favor and at least read my posts following GoatBoy's post. I mean, it seems you're missing something and I am interpreting that as cold. It's not helping that I'm exhausted. I'm really going to sign off now.

372. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255663 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 2:08 am

Fanusi --

Well, you're being a little cold. Are you really interested?

Again, I'm talking about contemptuous tone and, if it wasn't clear, I think that breaks down communication. Do you want communication or do you just want to fight all the time and have liberals to hate? 'Cause I'm not wasting any time backing you up again if that's what this is about, since you clearly don't appreciate it at all unless you've got an attack dog.

Goodnight.

373. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255643 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 1:47 am

Titania - PM for you.

Styrer - PM for you.


GoatBoy36 one last thing... As relates this being Richard Dawkins' house, we're not just visiting, we've moved in!

374. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255640 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 1:46 am

Laurie -- I'm totally laughing now. By God, I thought you meant "Barracuda" as in Sarah Palin. (Like, could my day/night get any worse?) Thanks very much though! I appreciate it.

375. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255637 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 1:44 am

Fanusi - you mean you missed the big showdown and, here, I thought you'd just hung me out to dry...

As I told Titania in a PM I've probably not told someone I'd like to kick their ass in all my life and could never have imagined saying it to someone named "Goatboy." **chuckles**

Start here. Don't get mad just read to where I mention you in my reply to GoatBoy.

3157. Comment #255505 by GoatBoy36

376. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255623 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 1:33 am

**groans** I'd rather be the dance hall girl. **sccuuhh sound of disgust **

377. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255598 by hawt4dawk on September 28, 2008 at 1:08 am

Alright, I am back from my huff. There's nothing like getting into a little tiff to perpetuate your insomnia.

Titania, sorry for overreacting. I cannot really think of another time in my life when I've brought up kicking someone's ass. It sounds like I'm twelve. I told myself, "You're in bad shape, sister!" But it'll be okay. (And as always I think you're the cat's pjs.Few things cuter than that.)

Goatboy -- you're on for the Starbucks or Cafe Nero, big boy, 'cause I will get to beautiful Scotland one day (land of some of my ancestors). One teeny little thing: I didn't actually make a threat. I said, "I'd like to." But I understand that "I'd like to" sounds pretty much the same thing if you think it's coming from a male. Sorry anyway.

Many folks here, including myself, have advocated or share a concern for maintaining a certain high standard for Richard Dawkins' website, so I totally understand where you're coming from with that. Unfortunately, I think a lot of us sense the critical nature of some things we're discussing here, so I think it is natural that emotions run high on occasion.

Styrer -- Sorry to you, too, if you read my swipe at you. I deleted it. I feel bad about it now. I don't even remember now why I was so annoyed. In case you don't read the earlier posts, I am very sleep deprived due to a messed up shoulder and arm.

In any case, I forgot to mention that I enjoyed your Tim Buckley link a lot the other day. I'm actually a fan of his son. I wonder if Jeff's songs are too religious in tone for you, but he has a beautiful voice. Those poor guys. Along with Nick Drake, what a sad loss for us.

Cheers!

378. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255560 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:44 pm

Yeah, Titania, and what's this about my heart being in the right place? I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit condescending. I post really thoughtful posts a good deal of the time and so do many other people in this ongoing argument. And Fanusi and Sciros and Styrer have been outrageously contemptuous to their opponents at times and I am sick of it. I have stuck up for Fanusi. I have stuck up for Steve. I have stuck up for both of them in the same argument. I can see both sides and have at least thoughtfully attempted to be a bridge builder in some threads and others I stay out of it. Anybody who actually reads my posts can see that I've probably argued a bit more on the Fanusi side as far as the Sharia in Britain being implemented. Of course, this was all before Goatboy came on the scene and decided we're all such trash now that he's read a book.

Forget it. I'm in no mood for a make up now.

379. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255554 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:38 pm

This is a really long commercial.

380. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255550 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:34 pm

Quine -- yeah, so it's Kendo, man. It's a hard discipline. How do you think I got this sprained shoulder -- uh, hi Mordy. **hides imaginary sword behind back, sniffs air, wistful for popcorn **

381. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255545 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:25 pm

Oops. Guess I was wrong. Never mind. Carry on!

edit - Jeez, Diacanu, it takes time to compose those little things!

382. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255543 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:21 pm

Quine -- ** whispers** just imaginary! We're just talking on computers after all. He's in Scotland and I'm in Massachusetts, but he doesn't know I don't have a katana. Isn't that great?

383. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255540 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:11 pm

Goatboy --

Okay, okay, chill out, please. I'm just kidding. I thought you knew I am a nice female meerkat with a small meerkat to take care of, but I guess not.

Okay, I wasn't entirely kidding when I "threatened" you, but it was figurative not literal. I was expressing frustration, probably in a less than productive way, because I haven't slept in days due to a sprained shoulder. If I'm going to meet you in Aberdeen, you will take me around to the High Street Shops or look at the houseboats or I will bust out my katana on you. Pfft. Rugby boys are no match for katanas!

I will say that I did notice you took the time to put together a comprehensive post of the two positions between Fanusi and Steve and I was impressed with that, but I was taken aback by what I perceived as a quite hostile tone toward Steve, who is in fact a thoroughly decent person and not the enemy. I quite hate quite hostile tones. I didn't blame Steve at all for declining your request to talk for that reason and also because I thought it wasn't your place to make Fanusi's arguments for him. I can see where that might have made you feel dissed and further entrenched a negative feeling about Steve, but I didn't think you were in the right and you went on baiting him. So I lost my cool with you. I can't really bring myself to say sorry. An explanation is the best I can do.

Thanks to the people who stuck up for me. You rock!

One more thing, friends, please, whatever your feeling for Fanusi, don't attack Fanusi because of Goatboy being upset about "his" issue. I have a feeling that Fanusi would stick up for me, too (even if he hates my politics).

Oh, final thing:

Diacanu is a very cool guy,
strong, aesthetically pleasing
"icon"-wise wink-wink
Mmm Hm!

and, hey, where are my junior mints?!

384. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255405 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Wow. I must have missed that right after my grandmother died. Was she okay?

385. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255403 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Ok, good to know, Mordy. I like yr log on name. It's funny, but it is a long one. Whatever happened to twp? I can't concentrate enough to leave, because I am watching the link from:

3122. Comment #255375 by Quine

Quine -- ** jaw hanging open ** I have never ever seen a modern preacher in America "rebuke witchcraft." My God. Children in some countries in Africa are persecuted for witchcraft on a regular basis. Just Google it. We can't have that here.

386. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255395 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Mordy - LOL!

edited to remove nonsense. ai yi yi. I've got homework to do before the man and child return.

This week's Western Civ Since 1500 assignment is: [trumpets] The Enlightenment and the Philosophes. (This is all about us, babies, at least in some ways, I hope.) See ya!

387. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255387 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 12:25 pm

Decius- Ha! I already deleted an ugly comment about Styrer. After I wrote it, I realized I'd better take a look at the calendar. Luckily, he doesn't read my posts, especially if I put smilies in them.
:) :)
:) :)
:) :)

These are all for you, Decius.

edited -- to change to Decius -sorry!- and add more smiles. I didn't sleep at all last night.

388. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255362 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:26 am

Here's a real ad hominem,just 'cause I'm in a bad mood: Sarah Palin is nothing if not a dance hall girl.

389. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255351 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 11:01 am

3116. Comment #255341 by Nairb

Well, is it just "arbitration" in fancy dress? If that is all it is, then it can't be a threat in the terms Fanusi desribes.

Nairb, please understand that I am not joining the beat-on-Nairb team by any means. You've had a bit of unfair contempt directed your way, IMO, so I don't want you to read me that way:

Do you agree that by allowing Sharia it still gives tacit consent to the way women

-- and children via religious education abuses -- just check out some of the crazy home videos on YouTube where cute little Islamic girls are reciting "Jews are pigs" to the praise of their family and fellow Muslims as seen in the comments) --

are treated in those communities, which are severely at odds with mainstream societal values and which have a cost to the society?


I think a public policy has been enacted that is counterproductive to Muslim integration/inclusion in mainstream society, which continues harm to women and children.


Leaving aside personal taste, fears of jihadism, emotion, etc.: Just in the narrow economic sense of public costs stemming from police investigations of "honor killings", genital cutting up at the Uncle's house in Bradford, etc., as well as for national health costs for physical abuse (which no I have no factual evidence for, but can extrapolate from existing mindsets in society where similar gender inequality and power imbalances exist) and, I also presume, being so sadly ignorant of British and European government finances, subsidies for very counterproductive religious schools.How is it a justifiable public policy?


3115. Comment #255338 by Bonzai

In Ontario, our government banned all religious arbitration when it rejected Sharia. The supporters of Beth Din were not happy, as you can expect, they made some noises but nothing much come of it. They have accepted Parliament's decision.

I think this is the far wiser choice based on what I wrote above.

edited for mistakes and also just to say that even if there are a few cases of that sort of thing under investigation in a given year, they still represent a zeitgeist in a given community, because there are many more bad things which happen than the police can take care in general.

390. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255337 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 10:26 am

Mordy -- That's sad news. I love his salad dressing and some of his movies and appreciated that he put his profits to charity. I kind of hate it when famous people die, because it reminds me of how much old age and mortality suck.


edited -- why can't i get it right the first time?! Sheesh!

391. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255334 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 10:22 am

Comment #255276 by Steve Zara

Steve -- okay, you're right. It's not a disaster. My mistake. It is a serious problem that will now be somewhat difficult to solve.

The fact that it has been established will make it harder to repeal and the religious "minorities" who want both Beth Din and Sharia can make a greater noise together than the supporters of Beth Din would do if the government had moved quietly to revoke those laws which allow the court to be established.

edited for mistakes

392. Ministers to Defy I.R.S. by Endorsing Candidates

Comment #255300 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 9:03 am

85. Comment #255153 by Fanusi Khiyal

Fanusi -

Again, as I said in a previous post, I am not a proponent or opponent of Marxism, because I have not studied the theory in-depth, but I take issue with what you've said here:

Aaaaannnd... suddenly everything makes sense. After the slaughter of over a hundred million and the enslavement of a third of the planet, there are still fools who think being a marxist is something to be proud of, not a mark of indelible shame.

I am going to qualify what I say by also acknowledging that I have more to learn about "the Reds" in Russia and the People's Revolution in Chinda and I can easily imagine you know a great deal more about those topics.

However, I think attributing the "indelible shame" of the atrocities of the communist revolutions to Marxist Theory is invalid.


How those communist revolutions played out has a great deal more to do with the histories of the countries involved, their long history of "shameful" class oppression and bloody violence and their resistance to ideas about "the social good" than it does with the economic theory itself (and possible future practical applications of Marxist ideas).


I submit that Totalitarianism is the true ideological culprit and misapplied Marxism was a sidekick, if you will.


As you may agree, similar accusing fingers are wrongly pointed at "atheism" with regard to same said "indelible shame," because as everyone well knows, it is said, "Atheists hold no oaths, hold nothing sacred and cannot act morally."

While the theory of Marxism may have influenced the economic and social ideology of the Revolutions more directly than Atheism can be said to have actually negatively influenced morality, you cannot cite a distortion of a idea in its practical application to discredit the theory itself.


For emphasis, you can only judge actual results to a pure theory if it has been properly applied. If it has been improperly applied, in what way can it be fully judged by the results? You wouldn't apply that kind of thinking to a science experiment. As an example, you wouldn't apply a misapplication of theory of evolution to support racist ideas to condemn it.


And you can't also responsibly apply moral and political assumptions about people who discuss or even like ideas about the theory. In other words, you can't effectively dismiss them by calling them "fools" and tarnishing them with the "shame" brush, not if they are smart enough or educated enough to see through you.


Well, you can. And you'll influence those who know less or haven't spent anytime thinking it through or have been exposed to the same mantras you are repeating here, which I suppose is your aim in making those comments.


Can you make a better argument against Marxism than "look what the Commies did with it", please? I'd be interested to hear an argument against it that isn't based on an appeal to bias and emotion.

heavily edited for clarity and reposted.

393. Ministers to Defy I.R.S. by Endorsing Candidates

Comment #255285 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 8:19 am

Christopher Davis --

Were you able to watch the debate? What did you think of the responses regarding Afghanistan?

I agree with your comments.

My feeling about capitalism is that it can only truly work with regulation, because of the undeniable fact that some people in the market place will and do act (witness one corporate scandal after another in the U.S. in past eight years at least) in greedy, immoral and even illegal ways. This is simply empirical fact.

One of the biggest problems is that true cost (example, environmental impact) is not accounted and paid for by the responsible parties. Many businesses exploit the environment, do massive damage, leave it to the taxpayer to clean up and pay for -- all of which itself taxes the productivity of a nation.

Proponents of the current system, or a more destructive system of free markets, ignore reality and use an endless parade of straw men, including the perennial favorite of (relatively small numbers of) people on welfare assistance and food stamps while completely ignoring tremendous tax loopholes, other breaks, incentives and bail-outs for corporations.


They also fight reforms and harass individuals who want businesses to act responsibly and be held accountable so that taxpayer money can go to something useful to the taxpayer. When the businesses act in self-interest that's seen as good, but when the taxpayer acts in self-interest they're criticized as "wanting the government to take care of them."

Taxpayers wanting oversight and regulation so that all the money and productivity used to clean up environmental and other costly messes made by businesses can go to something that actually benefits the society and strengthens the economic system are then attacked as people who want government spending.

If a person makes the above impractical and deleterious arguments and they aren't profiting directly from this system, they're just tools who don't even know how to act in their best interest. If they are profiting from the system and then criticizing taxpayers for wanting to act in their own self-interest, they're hypocrites... and still in the wrong by weakening the economy of a nation with their theft.

edited to add agreement and for grammatical errors

394. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255275 by hawt4dawk on September 27, 2008 at 7:36 am

For example, I do not think a US court would enforce an agreement that a mother be denied custody or access to her children if she ever takes off her burqa. It could never absolve someone of criminal responsibility or punishment.

Titania, I selected this because I want to use it to emphasize my support for what Rachel Holmes said, which is basically that just by allowing Sharia the society at large is tacitly consenting to the oppression of women in these communities, because who but the boldest or those with nothing left to lose is going to be in the position to take her issues to a higher court?

This is what really upsets me about this issue. Sharia and Beth Din should be banned. Western law, Western lawyers, mediation if you want it by Western lawyers, no compromise. I do agree with Fanusi that this is a slippery slope for the reason that once you grant "a privilege" it is seen as a "right" and when you move to take away the right or block expanding it, then you provide the means for "outrage" and rebellion. I think that the introduction of Sharia is a disaster for Britain. I was deeply disturbed by the news when I heard it while I was grieving for my grandmother and I said to my husband, "I'll bet Fanusi's having a field day over there are RDnet."

395. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255132 by hawt4dawk on September 26, 2008 at 11:41 pm

yeah, falling over now. wish I could hang out more with you, Laurie. Seems like I'm always having to say goodnight when your party's just getting started. :p night all.

396. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255130 by hawt4dawk on September 26, 2008 at 11:37 pm

(Edited for calling Titania "Titanis"; oh well, it's better than "Tit".)

LOL!

How's that Jameson treatin' ya, Titania?

397. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255128 by hawt4dawk on September 26, 2008 at 11:33 pm

Oh, Laurie, in that case can we come, too? We love camping and socialized medicine and kids and music, especially swing (do you like Squirrel Nut Zippers? I like the old stuff by Glen Miller and Benny Goodman.).


Goodnight, Roots. I'm with you there. I was thinking at the outset "it doesn't matter" remembering the smarmy yukking and deer-in-the-headlights performances of George Bush. It's all too depressing.

Mordy -- aaahhh. It is a microbrewery?

edited -- never mind. dumb question. I am getting pretty sleepy. It's 2:38 am here. I should try to get some sleep.

398. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255122 by hawt4dawk on September 26, 2008 at 11:22 pm

Mordy

Can't say as I've heard of sudwerks. Do you work there/own it? I wasn't of drinkin' age then. Is it still a environmentally-aware town with lots of bicycle lanes?

Grrr indeed! Take her with!

399. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255120 by hawt4dawk on September 26, 2008 at 11:19 pm

Roots - yeah, Obama mentioned that Al Qaeda was in 60 countries and as strong as they were in 2001. McCain lied a lot. He counts on and probably knows he can get away with it. I am worried the elections will be tampered with/stolen again... I could go on and on. Don't want to right now.

400. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #255116 by hawt4dawk on September 26, 2008 at 11:14 pm

Eh?