Comments by Henri Bergson

Comment #56600 by Henri Bergson on July 16, 2007 at 2:02 pm

This mosque must be prevented.

352. American Taliban on the warpath against evolution

Comment #56548 by Henri Bergson on July 16, 2007 at 10:15 am

Ranjani,

So what? Everyone knows that US military personnel are wimps.

I once read they had 'compassion training' exercises whilst the Brits were having night-vision targeting training.

353. American Taliban on the warpath against evolution

Comment #56527 by Henri Bergson on July 16, 2007 at 5:47 am

child.

354. American Taliban on the warpath against evolution

Comment #56519 by Henri Bergson on July 16, 2007 at 5:28 am

Rtambree,

Is that a response? Come on, give me more than that!

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote.

355. American Taliban on the warpath against evolution

Comment #56514 by Henri Bergson on July 16, 2007 at 5:06 am

Rtambree,

Afghanistan & Iraq, I wrote, were 'serious POTENTIAL threats.'

Secondly, I also wrote that Al qaeda existed before the invasions. Perhaps it stirred them up a little, but terrorism is no where near as dangerous as a nation threat (terrorists do not have armies).

Thirdly, don't forget that the military personnel from the US and UK are volunteers today. It is no bad thing to ask them to fulfill their purpose, as you suggest. Why do you think everyone is a coward by default?...

Of course false pretenses were made, at least with Iraq (WMD, etc.). Naturally and irrelevantly! This is necessary as the population must be controlled by an ethical code that does not objectively exist. If states were honest - that all war is ultimately about power - the populace would be harder to control.

It seems you are part of this deluded populace - but reality is far from your understanding. All statesmen know this.

356. American Taliban on the warpath against evolution

Comment #56503 by Henri Bergson on July 16, 2007 at 4:37 am

Rtambree,

I think you have watched the news but not analysed it.

Afghanistan & Iraq are no longer threats to the west - as nation states (Al qaeda existed anyway). People criticise the invasions because the countries were left in (relative) chaos; but that's irrelevant: they are no longer serious potential threats.

Pakistan must be kept in check, our puppet is doing that for us now.

I don't think most people understand that international affairs is necessarily a zero-sum-game. If you deny that, you're an idealist (and may as well be religious).

357. American Taliban on the warpath against evolution

Comment #56497 by Henri Bergson on July 16, 2007 at 3:39 am

One forgets that Pakistan has the bomb. If the (relatively) secular President Musharraf were to be toppled by any one of the myriad fundamentalist muslim groups of his country (and Pakistan was created AS an islamic state), then the west would have to interfere. Interference would preferably be done through funding a coup, but ultimately military force would have to be used.

Having said this, the US has the bomb as well, and Bush seems to be a fundamentalist. Would the US ever (H) bomb a nation due to religious difference? – Doubtful. Would Pakistan under a new muslim head? – Unknowable. Should we, Europe, bomb the US as half of them are a bunch of morons? – Suicide. Should the allies control Pakistan? – Undoubtedly.

358. Believing the Unbelievable: The Clash Between Faith and Reason in the Modern World

Comment #56370 by Henri Bergson on July 15, 2007 at 10:34 am

I thought Ben Stiller was Jewish?

359. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #55508 by Henri Bergson on July 11, 2007 at 10:41 am

Sharon,

Inner conflicts between cold logic and the way I was brought up? – sometimes (prejudice over reason).

But there's a HUGE difference between courtesy and morality.

360. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #55507 by Henri Bergson on July 11, 2007 at 10:38 am

benway,

Fvck you, I am friendly! (joke)

I have an intellectual honesty that you lack, alas.

361. Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

Comment #55117 by Henri Bergson on July 10, 2007 at 3:52 am

Steve,

I had a look at that book recently in fact.

I'm reading an excellent little book at the moment by Anthony Burgess (of Clockwork Orange fame) about linguistics called, 'Language Maid Plane' (sic).
In it he writes that the possessive apostrophe actually commemorates a missing 'e' (i.e. a contraction) that was used in the original Anglo-Saxon genitive singular case.

So the possessive apostrophe originally stood for a contraction.

I'm sure this is excruciatingly tedious for most readers - apologies!

362. Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

Comment #55106 by Henri Bergson on July 10, 2007 at 3:14 am

kfrancist,

I've read a few books by Sartre and thought them pretentious. Heidegger, Sartre's inspiration, also said he thought Sartre's philosophy "garbage".

However, I have not read everything Sartre wrote so
I could be mistaken.

363. Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

Comment #55104 by Henri Bergson on July 10, 2007 at 3:11 am

Steve,

You started this, let's finish it! "It's" is not always a contraction of "it is". It can be a contraction of "it has" - e.g. "It's been raining."

One more pedantic thing: "its" is also a possessive adjective as well as a possessive pronoun (i.e. equivalent to her and hers, respectively).

364. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #55100 by Henri Bergson on July 10, 2007 at 2:44 am

Benway,

Now I have more reason not to want to live with you: you're deranged.

Thanks for this story; and so much for your ethical theory...

Sharon,

Just because I do not believe in morals doesn't mean that I'm some kind of psycho (like Benway); in fact, I'm an incredibly friendly, honest person.

Some people think that atheists are psycho's - not true.

365. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #55018 by Henri Bergson on July 9, 2007 at 5:42 pm

Sharon,

Are you hitting on me? Please continue.

I value 'that' which is in 'my' interest, i.e. power potential. But that means values are subjective. Does that mean... nihilism?

366. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #55000 by Henri Bergson on July 9, 2007 at 4:25 pm

If you stare at the centre of the red skull, the avatar strangely opens up into 3D like a hologram.

(If you go into a hologram it's impossible to get out but you can be heard by some animals.)

367. Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

Comment #54995 by Henri Bergson on July 9, 2007 at 3:59 pm

Rtambree,

Of course much so-called philosophy is 'semantic contortion' (e.g. Sartre, Baudrillard, the French (exc. Bergson, Deleuze)), but there is much that, prima facie, looks like contortion but in fact is concentrated reasoning beyond the understanding of most (e.g. Kant).

To condemn philosophy is to condemn thinking.

Much evolutionary psychology wouldn't get past a first-year philosophy logic class: too many presuppositions and non sequiturs.
- But hopefully one day ev. psy. will mature.

368. Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

Comment #54907 by Henri Bergson on July 9, 2007 at 9:38 am

Mango,

As a philosophy teacher I can tell you that good philosophy is backed up with sound reasons. Speculation may be interesting (over a beer) but it doesn't make for good philosophy (or science).

369. Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

Comment #54902 by Henri Bergson on July 9, 2007 at 9:22 am

Steve,

Let's be pedantic! The article correctly used the apostrophe but it incorrectly used the word 'blond'.

'Blond' with no 'e' is masculine; with an 'e', feminine. So the following extract (one of many) is grammatically incorrect:

"...young girls with light blond hair become women with brown hair."

The whole article is amateur speculation anyway.

370. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54855 by Henri Bergson on July 9, 2007 at 6:32 am

Gordon,

I agree with you regarding quotations. McGrath annoys the hell out me by constantly using them as if he's afraid of his own authority (of course using 'age' is also such a device...).

My Avatar? I did design it but never saw it as a washing machine! Perhaps it could be seen as someone's brain getting so washed that the flesh has been completely washed away... not my brain, of course!

371. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54758 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 9:22 pm

Benway,

One last time then I'm off to bed:

1. If 'morality' = agreement then
2. no agreement = no 'morality'.

3. But I never defined morality as agreement.

4. Therefore whether 'morality' = agreement OR whether 'morality' = not-agreement, morality still does not exist except as illusion (as argued previously).

5. But you assume that agreement would be a 'good' thing, therefore you have a hidden morality behind your agreements ('good').

Good night.

372. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54754 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 8:54 pm

benway,

You are a dead man walking with a fetish for agreements (are you a landlord?).

I want no agreement with you, thus no morality.

Just like the animals - which we all are, though more intelligent yet more deluded.

(I should write 'The Morality Delusion')

373. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54749 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 8:37 pm

benway,

I already wrote that I do not want to live with you harmoniously.

Time for you to admit defeat Benway--

374. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54748 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 8:35 pm

goldy,

A morality only benefits those in power (or who aim for power).

Is the Catholic moral against contraception beneficial to the Africans?
Is the capitalist moral against theft beneficial to the poor?
Is the moral against adultery beneficial to the libidinous fe/male?
Is the moral against pride beneficial to the talented?
Is the communist moral against wealth beneficial to the ambitious?

As mentioned, moralities are power structures beneficial to the ruling type (often subconsciously - what Engels calls 'false consciousness')

375. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54744 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 8:17 pm

benway,

No I wouldn't! Harmony is boring and stunts development.

I could say the same for society.

As Hegel wrote, "as the winds which sweep over the ocean prevent the decay that would result from its perpetual calm, so war protects the people from the corruption which an everlasting peace would bring upon it." -- The Philosophy of Law

As Hitler wrote, "Mankind has grown strong in eternal struggles and it will only perish through eternal peace."

376. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54742 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 8:07 pm

Goldy,

Essentially you're saying that altruism is egoism: we help others so they may help us (or to make us selfishly 'feel better').

I think, however, that if you identify yourself with others, helping them is helping 'yourself' (plural identity). It's still selfish with regard to that plural self though.

Moralities, like religions, are power structures - even Marx acknowledged this.

Victorian classifications like 'psychopath' and 'nymphomaniac' should be considered sceptically as regards whether they actually refer to real things. Lacking empathy is only a problem in a society where empathy is valued. The vikings valued the hard heart: "Odin must set a heart of stone within a man who is to become a warrior." (And only warriors went to Viking heaven, Valhalla.)

377. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54736 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 7:28 pm

benway,

but you are valuing them and others as good for society.

We could agree on house rules (e.g. keeping promises, no debates), but this ASSUMES that we want a harmonious flat.

378. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54733 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 7:24 pm

Sharon,

Please tell me.

379. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54728 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 6:58 pm

Generally more useful to go through the pain so that it becomes easier the next time. If it's potentially fatal I would of course.

I hope you're not driving at what I expect...

380. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54724 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 6:34 pm

srwb,
irrelevant.

sharon,
no.

381. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54714 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 4:39 pm

Gordon,

I have not changed my stance in the slightest, so our disagreement must simply be a matter of words.

Compassion can be a weakness or a strength depending on the priority. The priority - what we value as the highest - is therefore what is at stake.

Our western society places far too much emphasis on compassion in my view. We live in a feminised society today (not that that is 'wrong', it's just an observation based on historical comparisons).

382. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54703 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 3:18 pm

Benway,

Your presupposition is that we want to value things which we would call 'morals'.

What if I say, "I do not want to be 'moral'."? I do not want to put things on the table.

Obviously promises do not work if people do not agree that they 'ought to' be kept. But a person could say, "I do not make promises." You could not criticise him.

If you DID value promises, you would have to agree on their definitions to make them valid. However, and please note this Benway, to value promises is your ASSUMPTION.

Your notion of morality implicitly contains such assumptions, as mentioned.

383. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54656 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 11:24 am

Benway,

The verification principle is something that A J Ayer used (in Language, truth and Logic) to argue that morality is not factual. As you agree.

It may be verifiable fact that people generally agree on a moral, but this is objective ('indicative' as you write). But it is also verifiable that people generally agree that God exists. This, therefore, does not make it 'true'.

An 'ought' imperative is just that: an imperative, a power command. There is no logical way that it is information. Therfore morals are subjective and moral agreement is arbitrary.

Your examples of 'inescapable' agreements are not at all inescapable! First, words only have the definitions we give them, they do not necessarily refer to actual things (e.g. 'ether', 'evil'). Secondly, that one 'ought to keep one's promises' is certainly not an inescapable agreement: a promise may have been made under deficient knowledge which would thus change the reasoning for the promise, and we could do away with promises in theory. Animals exist without promises.

Moreover, you are the one who actually falls for the is/ought problem: there 'is' agreement in society, therefore one 'ought' to follow.

As mentioned previously, you still have an underlying moral presupposition behind your 'social contract'.

384. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54642 by Henri Bergson on July 8, 2007 at 10:40 am

All of these defences of morality (all these 'perhapses') could be used to defend the existence of God(s).

If you do not accept the latter as there is no proof, you cannot - in all rational, cold-hearted honesty - accept the former.

As the great German philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche, wrote, "the denial of God absolutely means the denial of Christian morality."

Let me again write that there have been many other types of morals in the past, there will be others in the future. For example, eugenics was considered a 'moral' stance before WW2,even by Churchill. The accused at the Nuremberg trials said that their eugenics was inspired by the USA's. China today, since 1992, has had a eugenics policy in law which they consider morally good for society.

We should, at the very least, not take for granted that morals are true. Even the most seemingly obvious ones.

385. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54462 by Henri Bergson on July 7, 2007 at 10:03 am

Of course it's childish: you could use the same argument to say that atheism didn't 'get society very far' in the past, so it's wrong now.

Further, do you not understand that the sentence you quoted from me was a joke?

386. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54425 by Henri Bergson on July 7, 2007 at 2:57 am

English humour Gordon.

387. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54389 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 6:37 pm

Jesus Christ save me from this onslaught!!

I cannot respond to every single point you all mentioned, except to say that my views are undoubtedly correct.

Quickly though, to
Geckoman:
You commit the all-too-common and illogical 'Reductio ad Hitlerum' which should be banished from any argument today. It's childish.

Ba'al:
Well done for identifying the origin of a lot of the arguments I made (Nietzsche), but I also use A J Ayer (logical positivism).
Nietzsche was only against Darwinian evolution (not evolution) on the grounds that it was based on the will to survive rather than the more fundamental will to power. This I completely agree with.
Ultimately you are saying that morals are subjective – that is what I have argued. But that means they do not exist objectively and thus one ca never judge another's 'immoral' acts.

It's interesting how AJ Ayer's 'emotivism' and Nietzsche's thought come together here: Ayer stated that a moral proposition cannot be proved true or false, and is therefore meaningless. So then why do people employ such propositions, he asks? Well, to express emotion but more often to try to control people by subconsciously informing them of a (moral) 'law' to which they must adhere. I.e. morality as will to power!

So, morality is still faith.

(I feel like I'm a lone atheist defending the non-existence of God against theists who think his existence a certainty but are not quite sure why!)

388. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54302 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 10:10 am

BT Murtagh,

With respect, I think your post was too long-debates online do not enjoy monologues.

95% of societies are religious - i.e. false - there's your study.

Unfortunately, illusions often do seem to keep societies together. History shows this. One example, creating a straw-man enemy unites a people - 'straw man' being the indicator of illusion.

All rulers of societies understand this, thus we have 'realpolitik'.

As the Roman statesman Seneca wrote, "Religion for the common man is truth; for the wise, false; and for the rulers, useful.'

389. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54294 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 9:44 am

srwb,

I mean both physically AND mentally weaker. Technology & Christianity can lead to most people not thinking as much.

390. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54283 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 9:09 am

Possibly one small, recent factor.

One thing I forgot to mention:
Contrary to the common argument that compassion has helped mankind develop, it could be argued that it has hindered the evolution of mankind by proliferating the weak.

391. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54272 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 8:07 am

Benway,

That then means that your social contract is founded upon a prior (hidden) morality which states that if you do not agree with and follow the social contract you are being immoral. This is the faith you have, implicitly.

This was a similar criticism to that laid upon J S Mill by Herbert Spencer with regard to utilitarianism.

392. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54267 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 7:48 am

Benway,

If I do not want to enter the social contract, am I 'wrong'?

If I do not wish to enter this contract, but want to kill a lot of people for fun, could you criticise me? The social contract itself cannot be used to criticise this behaviour - morality could. That is the difference: morality purports that it is a fact that some actions (like killing innocents) are 'wrong'.

393. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54265 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 7:44 am

I once had a lecturer called Michael Benjamin...

394. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54264 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 7:41 am

Benjamin Michael,

So we do, after all, agree with regards to the first and second points. A question of semantics.

Regarding the inheritance of compassion - as a virtue (importantly) - it is undeniable that it derives from Christianity (in Europe and America). The Romans, the Vikings, the Samurai, the pre-Socratic Greeks, all thought compassion & pity to be a vice, a womanly affectation. Christianity emerged from a class of Jewish slaves who clearly valued compassion, et al, as they were in need of it. This is why Christianity today feeds on the weak: drug addicts, the feeble, those with psychological problems (like McGrath!).

England has been Christian for much over 1000 years, simply ridding ourselves of the belief in God will not rid our ingrained belief in its morality (which is part & parcel of its power structure). It is so ingrained that we do not even question it - so let us do just that!

395. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54260 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 7:28 am

Benway,

Social contract is not morality.

The former purports benefits; the latter, facts.

Something may benefit me without it being true (e.g. religion).

With regard to the breaking of the circle - you agree then with me!

396. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54254 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 6:45 am

Benjamin Michael,

The first part of your post simply establishes what I wrote:
All behavioural traits can be valued or not - my point is that to value one above another (say, altruism above aggression) is subjective not objective (i.e. not a 'fact').

Secondly of course other creeds value compassion, not just Confucianism, but also Buddhism, Islam, Scientology, etc. We of European descent value compassion due to our Christian heritage though, obviously. Therefore our western bias towards valuing compassion, say, is Christian.

Thirdly, utility does not equal good! This is the classic 'is-ought fallacy'. Religion is useful to many people, is it therefore 'good'?! Nietzsche wrote about this with regard to the English moralist, Paul Rée. Read it (Genealogy of Morality).

Thus morality is indeed faith, not observation.

397. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54247 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 6:00 am

So now you're beginning to agree with me Gordon!

398. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54243 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 5:42 am

Gordon,

I did answer your question, you didn't read it. The statement about innocents is a specific definition that can be considered.

If you want a broader definition: belief in good & evil, right & wrong.

399. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54240 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 5:34 am

Benway,

To say that there is 'good' (morality) because it sustains society, and sustaining society is good, is a vicious circle.

It's like saying that God exists because it's in the bible, and the bible is true because it's the word of God!

400. Emory Brain Imaging Studies Reveal Biological Basis For Human Cooperation

Comment #54228 by Henri Bergson on July 6, 2007 at 4:36 am

you are religious then.