401. Honest Mistakes or Willful Mendacity

Comment #69996 by walk on September 13, 2007 at 2:41 pm

Northern Bright,

So I take it you didn't actually LIKE the book?

(Brilliantly stinging review!) (Cornwell righteously spanked!)

402. The Atheists Interviews

Comment #69955 by walk on September 13, 2007 at 10:24 am

Thanks! Richard is truly at his brilliant best here, occasionally hilarious, and with great comedic timing!

403. The Atheists Interviews

Comment #69941 by walk on September 13, 2007 at 8:49 am

I clicked on the video link mentioned by Flagellent (36.) and Northern Bright (39.), and got the old - "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation" - prompt. I wonder what's up with that.

I found another version at:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8033327978006186584&q=Richard

This was recorded 10/23/06, and as this is not "recent" I'm hoping it was the same one you guys mentioned.

404. The Fleas Are Multiplying!

Comment #69736 by walk on September 12, 2007 at 1:01 pm

Thanks J. Sounds like the normal "it all APPEARS designed" stuff. Too bad they can never offer any REAL "Dr. Benway-type" evidence. Of course, if they did, there'd be a Nobel prize in the collection plate!

In fairness to remote possibility, I too often say, "I'm willing to believe, God, just show me ANY hint of proof." - - - Still waiting.

405. The Fleas Are Multiplying!

Comment #69720 by walk on September 12, 2007 at 11:39 am

Has Wee Flea ever attempted to answer BillySand's question (200. #69507) "How about putting your money where your mouth is then and present some evidence for God"?

406. Honest Mistakes or Willful Mendacity

Comment #68575 by walk on September 7, 2007 at 4:13 pm

Northern Bright, you said (66.)

"One of the things I have enjoyed about the videos of Christopher Hitchens in action is that these long, serious debates have taken place in the US at all and have been made available to a wider audience."

It IS difficult here in the US for an atheist. After a day of talking to faith-heads of one degree or other (I have friends who are "post-christian spiritualists", mainstream Christians, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormons(!), etc.), I just CAN'T WAIT to get to my computer and listen to, or re-listen to, one of Hitch's or Dawkins' beautiful recitations, (the longer the better).
Most of my friends won't discuss religion with me anymore (my fault), and it's been wonderful to find this website and the great community here.

407. Christopher Hitchens on BookTV

Comment #68218 by walk on September 6, 2007 at 11:53 am

Can anyone shed light on Citizen Hitch's comments concerning Billy Graham? He paints Graham as a conscious fraud, recounting a (real?) conversation between the Rev. and James Templeton, Graham's Canadian counterpart. Is this conversation described in print antwhere? It would certainly change my perception of Graham as a misguided, but for the most part, sincere individual.

408. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #67705 by walk on September 4, 2007 at 1:00 pm

Call me crazy, but I'm gonna give this one more shot - - -

Darwin2, on 268. you said:
"First, I asked myself if it is possible for God to exist. My observations of the universe concluded that yes, it is possible for God to exist.
Second I asked is there any spiritual theory that adequately expresses a purpose to our lives."

As I said before (and you haven't answered yet), if one stipulates the above, then, with imagination, I can see how the rest of your assertions COULD follow. But I think you'll have to admit, if God actually doesn't exist, if the "spirit world" has no basis in reality, and if our existence has no more innate purpose than other mammals (other than survival and propagation of genes) then your entire theory falls apart. Would you agree?

409. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #67458 by walk on September 3, 2007 at 1:50 pm

Lane, thanks. It sounds like you're signing off. I wish you all the best! Thanks for responding so graciously to my needlessly confrontational posts. You taught me an important lesson that I will carry with me. Live long and prosper!

Dr. Benway, I had no idea you were from the Boston area. I've lived in CA since the 70's, but grew up in Wakefield, just north of Boston, and attended UMass Amherst ('62-'66). I always enjoy your "wicked pissa" comments.

410. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #67166 by walk on September 2, 2007 at 11:15 am

Monkey2, You may be a cynical old dog (nothing wrong with that!), and Dr. Benway may be leaning towards "lane agnostic", but as one who's been pretty hard on lane, he seems like a decent guy who's sincere in his beliefs. I may be naive, but I want to err on the side of human kindness.
Lane, thanks for your respectful responses to my rather aggressive posts. Your faith seems sincere to me, you seem to respect non-believers, and I for one hope that all you wish for comes true for you.
Isn't it funny how believers take great comfort and strength from their beliefs, and how atheists take equally great comfort and strength from their rationality and disbelief.

I've decided to back off and am feeling a bit guilty for being in "attack mode".

Lane, the only thing I remain curious about, in light of your posts is, have you read the Bible in its entirety, and do you believe that everything it contains is true?

411. Teresa, Bright and Dark

Comment #67076 by walk on September 1, 2007 at 5:19 pm

rar, I apologize, please excuse my ignorance. If God doesn't demand righteous living, doesn't punish evil, there's no eternal life, and He doesn't intervene in this world, what exactly do you believe about Him?

412. Teresa, Bright and Dark

Comment #67062 by walk on September 1, 2007 at 4:23 pm

Well said, D'Arcy.
rar, I feel sorry for you. If you're a mainstream Christian, you believe there's a God who gives you two choices - - 1. Praise HIM on your knees for the rest of your life and blindly follow HIS rules, and if you comply totally, then by HIS divine whim you MAY get to praise HIM on your knees for eternity. - or - 2. Decide not to and burn in the fires of hell for eternity. And you say there would no point to living in FREEDOM from this egomanical dictatorship?

413. Fallen Pastor Seeks Aid to Pursue Studies

Comment #67056 by walk on September 1, 2007 at 3:34 pm

kev_s, Thanks! Hadn't seen that one before. PRICELESS!

414. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #67055 by walk on September 1, 2007 at 3:25 pm

Also, a diety who supposedly monitors every thought and every action of 6 billion people every second of every day to see if they're praising him or not must assuredly have huge self-esteem issues! And while he's doing all this, he's assessing the minute details of Lane's business decisions. Talk about multi-tasking! (Oops! There I go again!)

415. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66998 by walk on September 1, 2007 at 9:25 am

Bonzai, Thank you. Point taken. My apologies to Lane.That WAS an unhelpful way to engage a Christian. I was wrong to just assume that Lane is a literalist with respect to biblical interpretation. We'll know the answer to that if he responds to my (overly confrontational) comment.

In the New Testament Jesus IS pretty straightforward in his numerous threats to unbelievers. And his descriptions of hell are fairly graphic ("gnashing of teeth, lake of fire, etc.). It's beyond me how the Christians cherry-pick the bible so it won't seem so brutal and downright crazy. If there is no threat of hell, exactly what is Jesus supposedly saving them from?

416. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66811 by walk on August 31, 2007 at 3:45 pm

Lane, thanks for your honesty and for energizing this thread. You said:

"I would like nothing more than to be able to order my son to accept Christ. Sorry, if that's too honest, but I see the stakes as so high and I love him so much, I almost can't bare the thought of him missing out on God's love."

You DO realize that according to your Christian beliefs, your son will not only miss out on God's love, but your all-loving Christ has promised to condemn your son to the torture of burning in hell for eternity for the unforgivable crime of not believing in (Him) something for which there is no evidence? - - Sorry for being so blunt, but these are YOUR beliefs.

You say you KNOW your beliefs are true. Is this really what you WANT to be true?

417. A Matter of Faith

Comment #66799 by walk on August 31, 2007 at 1:32 pm

Hang on, szymonroch, you could be in for a bumpy ride! Good luck! (Please specify WHICH movie you are referring to). (What is "sth"?)

418. A Matter of Faith

Comment #66794 by walk on August 31, 2007 at 12:38 pm

Please excuse the topic drift, but being fairly new here (and feeling a bit like the village idiot) - - - can someone tell me how to create the cool quote boxes? Thanks.

419. The importance of doubt

Comment #66791 by walk on August 31, 2007 at 12:26 pm

Yorker (49. Comment #66641) - Whew! That gave me goose bumps! Allow me to quote Yorker again in case anyone missed this - - -

"The most important thing Dawkins offers is not atheism, he more importantly tries to get people to value the only life they'll ever have and to make the most of it. A person taking this to heart is likely to be a far better contributor to humanity than one who wastes their life in the forlorn hope that magic will save the day for them, a sentiment whose very nature is selfish, demeaning and detrimental to humanity."

For me, this one statement beautifully illustrates one of the main goals of all our comments here. Well done, mate!

420. The Sacrifice of Reason

Comment #66632 by walk on August 30, 2007 at 5:25 pm

The elevator doesn't go to the top floor - - -.

I feel a whole lot more like I do now than I did before I got here!
(Wha?)

421. The importance of doubt

Comment #66606 by walk on August 30, 2007 at 3:22 pm

C'mon fides, exactly where and in which book did Professor Dawkins quote Cornwell? (Richard, thanks for the clarification).

Isn't it curious that Cornwell never gives any specific reasons for "queasily returning to Christianity"?

422. The Sacrifice of Reason

Comment #66583 by walk on August 30, 2007 at 1:56 pm

It amazed me that when I recounted the MT statements to a good friend and colleague whose beliefs are "post-christian spiritualism" (and actually anti-catholic), he fell over himself defending MT (dark night of the soul, etc.). When I pointed out that this "dark night" lasted 40 years he wasn't deterred in the least!
Have any of you found that faith-heads will defend ANY supernatual belief, even ones they don't hold, because they sense a threat to the whole wacky enterprise?
As others have said, the believers, even when they doubt, can't imagine for a second that they could actually be wrong! Atheists, on the other hand, will willingly change their views in the light of new verifiable evidence.

423. The Sacrifice of Reason

Comment #66569 by walk on August 30, 2007 at 1:12 pm

Since finally evolving from a skeptic to a full-fledged atheist about a year ago, thanks to the books of the "four horsemen", I found myself speaking a bit giddily about them to my non-atheist friends. This caused the same type of resentment that Richard Morgan expressed above. After feeling embarressed at my groupie-like fawning, I've learned to tone down the flavor of my statements of respect and admiraton a bit. It IS hard to be conservative in referring to someone whose work and ideas have had such a profound effect on one's entire world view.
One aspect of the great work these men are doing that seems overlooked, is the real world danger of openly criticizing Islamic extremists. I think the guys deserve great respect for their bravery.

P.S. Was Richard Morgan's statement (31.) "If it matters, I just happen to concur that the sort of things that Dawkins, Dennet, Harris and Hitchens are saying and writing represent perhaps some of the most valuable and important ideas being expressed on planet EARTH today." - a tad gooey-eyed?
(Just kidding RM, I think you handled the responses to your original post admirably).

424. Fallen Pastor Seeks Aid to Pursue Studies

Comment #66101 by walk on August 28, 2007 at 5:13 pm

Double kudos to Professor Dawkins!
First, for posting on this thread in spite of it's (hilarious) off-color bent. It's great to know that he reads our comments.
And, second, for taking the above-mentioned high road with respect to the idiot pastor. Although in light of this latest travesty the temptation may become understandably too overwhelming even for Richard's genteel sensibilities.
Here's hoping cable news gets wind of this.

425. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #65647 by walk on August 25, 2007 at 10:08 am

Here's the link to Hitch's Slate article from 2003 on the beautification of MT in 1998. It gives an excellent overview.

http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/

Can't wait for an update from Citizen Hitch! You KNOW it's coming!
(Is that sweat I see coming out from under the papal tiara?)

426. A Matter of Faith

Comment #65472 by walk on August 24, 2007 at 11:26 am

Yorker (65434),
Thanks! Being a Dawkins blog I guessed you were from England, rather than Scotland. (I'm 1/2 Scottish on dad's side). Please excuse my blunder. Great Texas story!

Philip1978 (65442) Another good one! Having been raised in Boston (imagine my original accent - "Hey, whadda ya doin' - wicked pissa" - which only slips out now occassionally) Texas almost seems like another country.

Yes, in general, Americans are good, kind people. And fairly intelligent, which makes the widely held backward religious beliefs incongruous. Sometimes I wonder if the faithful simply haven't thought much about it, if they secretly doubt the whole deal but want to avoid being ostracized, or if wish-thinking is just easier than facing mortality. I've know some otherwise intelligent professionals who believe and staunchly defend the totally wacked Mormon claims!

I must admit that until I read the Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens books, I was sort of agnostic, but still trying to find proof of the supernatural, reading material on near-death experiences, psychics, etc. Now as a confirmed atheist, it's such a RELIEF to feel a solid grip on the truth.

427. A Matter of Faith

Comment #65297 by walk on August 23, 2007 at 2:01 pm

Johnny O (65.) - Based on the interactions I've had (admittedly not that many) and stats I've seen concerning this subject, I believe the US faith-heads think that the entire civilized world is as religious as they are, and that evolution is merely a BELIEF with no real consensus in the scientific community. The level of ignorance is staggering. (And, no, they're too self-righteous to realize they are a laughing stock).

428. A Matter of Faith

Comment #65246 by walk on August 23, 2007 at 10:21 am

60. Comment #65052 by Yorker -" I have a few American friends I think highly of so your country's not all bad! "

Reminds me of the time I stupidly asked an exchange teacher from Manchester who was in the US, if the Fourth of July is celebrated in England. He said (heavy Manchester accent) "Actually, Yes! A bunch of us go down to the shore at Bristol. We light one small firecracker, throw it into the ocean, and say "Thank Gawd They're Gone!"

429. A Matter of Faith

Comment #65032 by walk on August 22, 2007 at 5:10 pm

Yorker,
Boring AND frustrating. As you know here in the US 40% of the population don't believe evolution! I talk face to face with people who defend a 6,000 year old earth!
We owe our friends from the UK for, among other things, the Stones and the Beatles giving us back blues and real rock 'n roll at a time when the likes of Fabian and Frankie Avalon were mucking up the US airwaves with crap. And we owe again for Dawkins and Hitch hopefully waking some of us up to reason and logic. THANKS!

430. Scientists should unite against threat from religion

Comment #65016 by walk on August 22, 2007 at 4:15 pm

C'mon Bizzaro, that's 20 out of the last 25 posts exposing your illogical (bizzaro) views. We're waiting!

431. A Matter of Faith

Comment #64937 by walk on August 22, 2007 at 12:45 pm

The good thing about Julia Sweeney is that because of her popularity here in America with the huge demographic of viewers of the original Saturday Night Live, she could be a great force for an awakening of rational questioning in the suburban "religion of habit" crowd. The longer excerpt of her presentation available on You Tube has more of an adult feel.

432. A Matter of Faith

Comment #64798 by walk on August 21, 2007 at 11:18 pm

Great thread, one & all. Lovin' it!

433. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #64683 by walk on August 21, 2007 at 9:49 am

Like many here, I think I'm done trying to engage darwin2.
I've been patient, and he did give me at least one direct answer. But in his response (64560) to my post (64285) he avoided the hard questions, which I believe succinctly exposed the fatal flaw in his reasoning, to sort of answer the one soft ball. As Rational_G so aptly put it: ZZZZZZZZZ.

434. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #64306 by walk on August 19, 2007 at 1:28 pm

Right on, roach!

435. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #64285 by walk on August 19, 2007 at 11:44 am

With apologies to Veronique, and others, I feel I owe darwin2 an answer to his reply to my previous questions.

To Darwin2 (comment 64220). Thanks for your straight-forward answer. It helped me understand you a bit better.

You wrote:
"First, I asked myself if it is possible for God to exist. My observations of the universe concluded that yes, it is possible for God to exist."

I agree it's possible.

"Second I asked is there any spiritual theory that adequately expresses a purpose to our lives."

Here you are supposing that our lives have an inherent purpose, and that we posses the ever-illusive, man-made concept of a soul. Obviously the possibility exists that we are simply a product of blind evolution with no actual purpose other than our own survival, and are unfortunately not in possession of an invisible, undetectable, scientifically improbable construct that can sense without senses, maintain a personality and zip around the cosmos at will. If your initial, arbitrary assumptions are false, then your argument ends there.
If we do have an inherent purpose and a "soul", the rest of your suppositions could follow from there; - - something/someone must have given us a purpose - - - etc.

"The only spiritual theory that I could find that adequately expresses a purpose in life and truly gave me answers to the human condition was Reincarnation and Karma. This led me to conclude God was loving, merciful and perfectly just."

Now that you've supposed a creator, a purpose, and a soul, you adopt the Eastern concepts of reincarnation and karma as another leap of faith, and somehow conclude that this god of yours is loving, merciful, and perfectly just. Why would that necessarily follow?
(On a side note, I don't see why you automatically suppose our amazing, awe inspiring earth is hell, I think it's an incredibly great place.)

It would be wonderful to know for a fact that our lives had actual purpose (other than what we give it). Is it possible that your entire argument rests on a number of incorrect initial suppositions, and even if they were true, the rest of your constructs don't necessarily follow? Do you see where I'm going here?

436. God Bless Me, It's a Best-Seller!

Comment #64182 by walk on August 18, 2007 at 11:48 am

Well said, Zaphod.
Party On, Citizen Hitch!!

437. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63940 by walk on August 16, 2007 at 10:54 pm

darwin2,
Thank you for your detailed, heartfelt response (#63929), and as roach said, I'm sorry for your loss of loved ones, but, (and this is with respect), you didn't answer my question "where did all that stuff come from?"
I mean, if you're going to put out this extremely detailed account of how the "higher beings" and God are running the cosmic show, don't we at least deserve the courtesy of knowing where your ideas came from?

438. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63912 by walk on August 16, 2007 at 5:23 pm

spiritual1,
Hang on, you could be in for a bumpy ride ---

439. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63892 by walk on August 16, 2007 at 2:47 pm

USA_Limey (#63886), that endless thread was a true mind-bender!
If the writing styles were similar, one could postulate that Dianelos and darwin2 are one and the same!

440. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63884 by walk on August 16, 2007 at 2:03 pm

Thanks, sane1. I've noticed that darwin2 is currently 122 comments behind in his responses, so we may have a bit of a wait, but it will be truly fascinating if he answers the question truthfully.

441. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #63852 by walk on August 16, 2007 at 12:33 pm

To darwin2/George Killoran: I read quite a bit of your 93 page "Darwinian Creationism" pdf. And while it's contents are completely incredulous to me, you seem to have admirable motives, have obviously invested a considerable amount of time and energy on these musings, and, refreshingly, do offer that you may be completely wrong.

My question is: Where did all this stuff come from? Total fabrication? Hallucinations? New age websites? (Ramtha, Kryon?) A desire to compose a work of cosmological science fiction?
I'm not trying to be cute here. If you wouldn't mind, I'd really like to know.