401. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #173428 by Diacanu on April 30, 2008 at 7:00 pm

Brian English-
Don't forget Mark 4:11-12.
That bit where Jesus as much admits he wants to confuse people so they'll go to Hell.
If that's not being an asshole, I dunno what is.

402. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #173421 by Diacanu on April 30, 2008 at 6:49 pm

DickDawkins-

you are right that there's a possiblity that he might not exist, but if a philosopher thinks that something cannot exist

There's a possibility there's a teapot orbiting the sun that our telescopes can't see, there's a possibility there's fairies out in the garden, there's a possibility of fuckin Leprechauns.

When you use the arguemnt you just did, you kind of have to put yourself on the hook to sniff around for all of them, OR come up with a damned good reason why God is so fucking special.

And "he's a really BIG fucking Leprechaun who can send me to Hell", isn't gonna cut it.

403. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #173414 by Diacanu on April 30, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Dick Dawkins/Brian English-

And let's not forget the automatic respect religious holidays get on the news.

There's more evidence to believe in UFOs than there is to believe in christianity, but UFO folks are called "buffs", if they're mentioned at all.

Why aren't christians called "Jesus buffs", and giggled at come Easter time?

404. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #173409 by Diacanu on April 30, 2008 at 6:29 pm

Oh, crap, I forgot to get back to this thread in time.
Did Melissajoy ever answer my question "how can one be in absence from an omnipresent entity?"?

405. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173272 by Diacanu on April 30, 2008 at 3:02 pm

Ah, I see RM posted.
And he left me out of his friend list.
I'm crushed.

406. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173268 by Diacanu on April 30, 2008 at 3:00 pm

TTID-

How come you claw so desperately for any tiny little gap in evolution, but the Grand Canyon gaps in the Bible don't make you bat an eye?

407. Museums teach society lacking in science literacy

Comment #173084 by Diacanu on April 30, 2008 at 10:16 am

Andrew Stich-

A breath of fresh air.

Indeed.

408. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171660 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 4:52 pm

I went away for a bit, how did the DickDawkins saga resolve, or did it?

409. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171655 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 4:49 pm

*Sigh*
I forsee this "this is where I have trouble with...", routine going on for a good long while.

My gut tells me it'll end with "*head shake* no, no, even after all that, I just can't believe it, cuz I just can't!!".

Hope I'm wrong.

410. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171195 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 11:07 am

Dick-

I don't think that gays fit into the picture of an ideal America.

Who does?

Give us a list.

This should be enlightening.

411. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171186 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 10:58 am

Hmmm, I wonder why christians get so infuriated by the mere existence of atheism/atheists.

What, do they think by not beleiving in their imaginary friend along with them, we're killing him a little bit?

We must be, or otherwise, why does he need a posse of bodyguards?

That's some pussy God they've got there.

We can kill him like Tinkerbell by not believing.
Everyone, don't clap your hands.
Kill Tink!

412. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171172 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 10:49 am

Cartomancer-

Do you have a similar animus against their use in heteroerotic imagery too?

Or, what about homoerotic imagery for titlating heteros, I.E. two chicks with big ol' flag-wrapped silicone boobies and in flag thongs making out?

413. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171152 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 10:39 am

Dick-

I might not know what this country is about,

Read more.

Start with one of those little pocket copies of the constitution.

What do liberals and atheists know about war and sacrifice?

Plenty.
We've got several posters here who served.

414. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #171139 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 10:30 am

Dick-

when I retaliate it's trolling

And unchristian.

Turn the other cheek and all that y'know.

415. Science leads to killing people

Comment #171132 by Diacanu on April 28, 2008 at 10:24 am

Fanusi Khiyal-

Muslims, fundamentalist Christians, the neo-fascists of Europe, and, the only civilised ones in the bunch, the Objectivists.

*Sigh* never any good guys on the list.

Well, maybe we could get them all to fight each other like Freddy vs. Jason.

416. Science leads to killing people

Comment #170733 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 11:15 pm

DarwinsPitbill-

He is playing to the crowd that will go and watch this movie.

The same crowd most likely to get flag waved and fear mongered into shipping their sons off to all those lovely wars his buddies have planned.

417. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170604 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 8:59 pm

riandouglas-

I see the 1st and 3rd items as evidence of our moral maturity.

Hmm, well, that gets a bit tricky too.

That we have a society open enough to have "Girls Gone Wild", on tv?
Great.

That "Girls Gone Wild", is sub-standard porn wrapped in a Mardi-Gras package, and they charge as much for it as proper porn, which you can get on the internet for free?
And that the grinning idiot who started it is a millionaire, and I'm not?
EVIIIIL!!!
;)

As for R rated movies, yeah, glad we have 'em.
The Hayes code was religious fascism.

Just most Hollywood movies, R or no, suck.
And things that suck lower the artistic standard.

THAT'S the culture war I want to fight, not fundies vs. reason.

"It doesn't get any getter than this".
Well, yeah, it can and does!

Indeed!

418. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170561 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 8:35 pm

riandouglas-

Not too sure about the decline of morality in society.

Well, yeah, that is a bit fuzzy, that's why I qualified my answer with "I agree ON SOME LEVELS".

A christian probably sees "Girls Gone Wild", and Enzyte commercials, R rated movies, and reality game shows as "evil".

I just see them as stupid, but the dumbing down of our culture, and the bloodless business interests that profit from that dumbing down as evil.

And the antidote to that, to me, is education and awareness.

And that's the one thing religion is attacking.
Thus, I don't take kindly to it.
And then we end up with the arguments we have here.

419. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170549 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 8:28 pm

Brian English-

The eye has evolved separately several times.

And in many cases in the animal kingdom, with much better results than human eyes.

420. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170541 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 8:24 pm

TTID-

What motivation do they have?

Well, the same political/cultural fears you've expressed for starters.

421. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170525 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 8:09 pm

TTID-

I feel our society is gradually deteriorating when it comes to our universal moral standards.

I agree on some levels, but I hardly think more Jesus or more flag waving are the antidote.

Nor does scapegoating, and fearmongering of the type "Expelled", is employing.

The problems with society are too complex for that kind of thinking to be of any help.

Also, define "universal moral standards".

422. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170515 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 7:57 pm

TheTruthID-

the complexity and evolution of life just seems so unlikley to of happened by chance.

I too bought into the argument from design, that's why I was a Deist for awhile.

Learning more about evolution cleared up my confusion.

423. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170490 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 7:41 pm

TTID-

Apology accepted,...

...Captain Needa.
;)

424. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170486 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 7:36 pm

MaxD-

Lol!

Okay, fine.

Point taken, just cuz I'm not the one night stand type, doesn't mean I should project onto anyone else.

425. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170469 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 6:55 pm

smellhound-

dude, i wasnt trying to start an argument with the breeding comment. Was just pointing out something funny. calm down

Nothing personal, I just see that argument being made seriously sometimes, and I always wanted to counter it, and had a rant in my head ready to do so, and your post gave me that opening.
I was ranting it not just to you, but anyone who may be reading.
It might make people think, I dunno.

426. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170462 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 6:47 pm

smellhound-

Ok, so your problem is more with following the particular tenants of any religion than with belief in God period?

Belief in God minus religious tenets is Deism.

Deism is pretty harmless, and it's what a lot of our founding fathers believed, and what Thomas Paine in particular tried to spread around with "The Age Of Reason".
A shame it wasn't embraced on a large scale.

But, Deism's best argument was the argument from design, and Darwin destroyed it.

427. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170446 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 6:35 pm

Smellhound-

Hey, just wanted to bring up a funny point. Not meaning to start an argument about this, but it isnt it kind of funny that people who don't believe in Darwin's theory are probably the ones who are the most viable under it. I mean, religious people breed a lot more than others.

So what?

Making Darwinism a personal life philosophy is fallacious as Mphil showed.

Leading my life based on what my genes want, or what religions prescribe, would be to be the very mindless puppet of genes and memes that religionists accuse atheists of being.

If I followed my base impulses to breed, and nothing more, I'd be living in a smelly trailer, with some cross eyed redneck chick, and she'd be popping out a cabbage every nine months, and I'd be hopping back on her the second her stitches healed.

No thanks, I don't want that life.

I want to do and learn other things.

And when I do settle down into a relationship, I want it to be based on more than "duuhhrr, your ass tatoo makes me hard!!".

If my genes don't like that, they can go piss up a rope.

428. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170433 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 6:26 pm

smellhound-

just wondering. Then since morality is natural because it gives you good feelings etc., then isn't faith in an almighty being natural too since it gives people good feeling. If so, why waste time fighting it?

Richard Dawkins's "The God Delusion", and Dan Dennett's "Breaking The Spell", investigate that very question.
You should check them out.

429. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170224 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 1:47 pm

But God is not and cannot be part of nature. God is the reason for nature, the explanation of why things are. He is the answer to existence, not part of existence itself."

Then how can people claim to know of his existance at all, much less his desires and edicts?

430. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170187 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 1:17 pm

Steve Zara-

You are basically right, although terms like "cause" and "regress" are difficult to use, because the new created universes would have their own isolated time dimensions.

Ah, but would that fuzziness in regards to the definitions of time and space compell you to sconsider bowing to it faithfully?

Would you bow to it faithfully?
Would you bow to it splendidly?
(Sorry, reference to a bad death metal song, being silly)

But seriously though, I kneel to no one.

I've gazed deep into myself, and it's the core of my nature.
I have a really big authority problem.
I don't see how anyone has, or ever had, a right to act like a king, and when someone tries to treat me like a peasant, they get some nasty surprises.

Caused me a lot of trouble at school.
Caused friction at a couple jobs, and the loss of one.
I don't care.
It's not the boss thing, I can handle that, it's the tyranny, the strutting fat little Roman Emperor disease, I don't take kindly to it at all.

And I don't see how even a creator has a right to behave that way.
No one has explained to me with decent reasoning how that even works.

Okay, say I paint a painting.
Okay, that painting is my intellectual property, so I own it.

That's the religious argument, and their logic stops there.

Big problem with that.

Free will.

If I paint a painting, and sprinkle it with pixie dust, and it comes to life, and the characters hop out of the painting, and have their own desires for their future, do I still own them?

I don't think so.
Free agents own themselves.

Now, if I do the same as the above, but use a little less pixie dust, so that the painting people are created to want to be my enslaved property, do I own them?

Well, if I tampered with their creation process, I tampered with their free will, so it's not their will, but mine, they're fulfilling my wishes, so they really have no free will.

So there you go, if God created people to be sheep, they have no free will.

If he created people like me who have it in their nature to rebel, then what's the problem?

And if religious people have it in them to rebel as much as me, but make the consious choice to forsake their own free will, and be slaves, well, that's a whole other thing entirely.

But, this is the thing, religion claims we all have free will.
If we have free will, we're all our own property until those of us with "faith", sell themelves out to their precious celestial dictator.

So, by religion's own admission, creatorhood does nothing whatever to bestow automatic authority.

And yet, religion holds the contradicting statement that we have free will, but God owns us.

But, religion has always had a contradiction problem.

So, anyway, I kneel to no one, no matter how big they are, and how much magic they bring to bear, and even if religious propositions were true, as a free agent, I have every right to do so, and I have every right to judge those who make the opposite choice as cowardly enslaved sellouts.

That religious propositions happen not to be true is merely a relief that I won't have to have a lightning bolt up my assholio.

And my judgement of the religious remains exactly the same.

431. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170136 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 12:36 pm

ThoughtsonCommonToad-

Yes as I have said. His argument rules out a complex first cause but not a creator of our universe as ours might not be the first or only one.

But if our universe wasn't the first and only one, the first cause gets pushed back to whichever the first universe was, and we have the regress problem all over again.

432. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170133 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Steve Zara-

I'm not going to worship just anyone.

Ditto.

Indeed, if advanced aliens showed up, and behaved like Yahweh, I would either on my own, or as part of a covert movement, seek to sabotage and destroy their technology, and liberate mankind.

433. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170122 by Diacanu on April 27, 2008 at 12:14 pm

Yeah, I gotta agree with those saying cussing Melissajoy out wasn't cool.

Note, I'm the king of "fuck", and I refrained.

I foolishly assumed others would take my lead.

Until she starts frothing, wishing hellfire on us, and taunting us with ditto head drivel, we should be diplomatic.

Otherwise, we come off as the assholes we're always accused of being, y'know?

434. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169798 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 8:42 pm

melissajoy-

You really have to look at the BIG PICTURE. Yada, yadda, yadda...

Why didn't God just ensure that the Isrealites were the dominant people in the first place, instead of playing all these cumborsome and drawn out little video games with people?

Or, better still, why did he play favorites at all?

All humanity are supposedly his children so what's up with this "chosen people", and "holy lands", and "holy men", stuff?

All seems rather petty and arbitrary.

Why, exactly the sort of thing one might expect if primitive superstitious human beings wrote it.

435. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169792 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 8:21 pm

melissajoy-

How can one be in absence from an omnipresent being?

436. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169707 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 4:07 pm

melissajoy1234-

I think His response will be "Richard, I was right there all the time. It was YOU who kept ME hidden, remember?"

Very sweet.
Like the woman who imagined it.
Sadly, I can find your cuddly personal imaginary friend nowhere in scripture.

People seem to create God in their own image.
Which to me, would seem to make the Bible irrelevant.
If people are going to create God to suit them anyway, then really all Christianity would seem to be is a tent to have a support group for those whose imaginary friend has the same name, even if for them, he's a pink rabbit, or a blue giraffe.

And in the end, all this does noting whatever to tell me if there is a creator of the universe, and what his/her nature might be.

Fire and brimstone angry Christian God?
Marshmallowy cuddly Melissa's Christian God?
Or, some other God entirely?
Allah? Thor? Zeus?
That Melissa's God is marshmallowy, and cuddly, and deliver's fuzzy fortune cookie little sentiments, doesn't mean that's objectively his/her nature, no matter how preferable it may be.

Preference does nothing to settle such issues.

Given all religions, and denominations of those religions claim the same level of truth you do, and with no other evidence than books of myth, one must rely on logic, reason, and the scientific method.

And they reveal a world with no God at all.

And preference does nothing to change that.

437. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169702 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 3:51 pm

newskin-

EDIT: Diacanu, by the sounds of that question, you hadn't read my previous post either!

Y'mean this one?

the point i was making is that surely they are going to be inherantly more careful with their lives?
I would like to think i would be prepared to give my life if there was no alternative and it would save many others.

Well, no duh.

There's a difference between what you describe, and mindlessly throwing your life away because of deluded fundie wackaloonism.

You made it sound in post 22 like the only options were between fundie suicide attacks with a willingness to die, and being relentlessly careful, and afriad to die, and that ONLY religion could one encite one to to be unafraid or even willing to die.

There's a whole specrum in between, and a whole spectrum of causes worth it to an individual to do so.

I just disagreed with the seeming rigid dichotomy you were setting up there.

What you could have said was "nothing gets a soldier to throw one's life away for it's own sake than religion".

I disagree with the underlying assertion that only the religious can fight fiercly, or believe that strongly in a cause.
That implies there aren't any other causes other than imaginary pixies worth struggling for.

That's a point the religious would dearly love to claim for their scoreboard, and I won't sit by and let it be given to them.

438. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169692 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 3:13 pm

newskin-

Diacanu-

Whilst those may be valid reasons for me going to war, i'm not sure that they would make me any more inclined to hasten my own demise!

Really?
You wouldn't catch a slug to save your own kids?

439. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169679 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 2:32 pm

newskin-

Who really wants to die? What better than to comfort yourself...

By protecting your family?
Protecting your friends who you love like family?
Protecting the ideals that keep your family and friends free and safe?

No?
Just the invisible spook stuff?

440. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169601 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 11:45 am

Ah, the "the founding fathers were christians", meme.

That one just won't go away, will it?

Guess they know it's the only leg they have to stand on, even though it's a lie.

Tch.

Well, all we can do is keep spreading the anti-virus of truth.
The historical record is on our side, not theirs.

441. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #169580 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 10:48 am

Quine-

Berlinksky-

"Do you really want Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris telling you what to believe about the deepest issues of life, faith, responsibility, [and] moral character?

I don't want ANYONE to TELL me what to believe about anything.

Especially a fucking faith head.

A faith head has NOTHING to tell me about the contents of my heart, or the ethical dilemmas I face.

I will however seek ADVICE, and OPINION, and INFORMATION from peers and respected figures and assemble that in my own head as a consensus, and then make my own choice by regarding or disregarding that consensus.

But, that's not a gut-reacted catchphrase you can fit on a t-shirt.

Clearly, christians think the more gut-reacted, short, and easy to toss out the catchphrase, the deeper the wisdom.

442. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169578 by Diacanu on April 26, 2008 at 10:36 am

MaxD-

I can't see this God having a sincere problem with abortion.

Yeah, well, "pro-life", isn't even "pro-life", anyway.
If one of these babies they bullied some woman into having grows up into an abortion doctor, or another woman who considers abortion, they don't love it anymore.
They go right off their love list.

And how about the state executions and wars these people love so much?

Nah, it's all about controlling the pussy.
And that's all about being in charge of everything.

That, and just having an arms race of flesh.
More living flesh than the other team to shovel off to war.

That's what all the "be fruitful and multiply", shit is all about, and it's what all the "onward christian soldier", shit is all about.

It's not about "pro-life", it's hatred/jealousy of women, and controlling means of production.

Hmm, smacks of Social Darwinism when you think about it.

443. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169348 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 7:53 pm

riandouglas-

Hit "reload comments", or "refresh", on your browser.

If you still miss one, try "previous".

Sometimes, a post or two gets left behind on the change over to the next page.

444. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169338 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 7:32 pm

And say....what IS this terror of atheism infesting their children about?

Say their worst fear came true, and atheism erased religion in a couple generations by sheer spread of information, and everyone getting sick of religion's lying, bullying, brainwashing, fucking bullshit.

Wouldn't that fuck up their whole end times fantasy?

No more christians, no one left to go Heaven.

But, Bible says there will be at least some of 'em to go to Heaven.

Hmm, sounds like they're doubting their Bible there.

Again, no fucking faith.

THEY don't even believe that shit.

So, why the fuck should any of us?

445. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169333 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 7:25 pm

riandouglas-

Bonzai: A fruit cake?

I thought we had 2 of those?

*Badump-ching!*

446. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169329 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 7:18 pm

Anyway, let's recap/summarize.

Creationism/ID has no evidence.
If it did, there would be no need for faith.
So, ID is religion, not science.
No duh, really.

Also, fundie christians have this new paranoid belief that atheists, and/or "the secular left", are going to erect death camps for believers in the near future.

Well, I'm not going to, safe to say none of us here are going to, so who these mythical hand-ringing mustache-twirling future Hitlers are going to come from is anyone's guess.
And why they think we'd all stand by and let that shit happen is a stumper as well.
And really fucking insulting when you think about it.
But, that's what makes fevered paranoia fevered paranoia.
It's irrational.
How do you get through to people like that?
I dunno.

447. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169319 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Just got done with the Sara Jane & Dr. Who block on Sci-Fi.

So, did you guys finally give Remant/TheTruthID "strike one, strike two, strike three, you're outta here!"?

I notice they're finally silent.

Or, did they have to go bake another cake?

448. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169208 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 4:00 pm

Remnant-

By doing this, you are pre-supposing that God exists,

Really?

Wow, so by that logic, if I discuss what the characters in the show I'm watching are doing, I'm supposing they're real.

So, Freddy Krueger, Spider-Man, Hulk, Terminator, Ash, HAL, Tron, Rocky, Blackadder, Baldric, Mr. Creosote, Rimmer, Lister, Kyten, I have to believe in all of them too?

Bitchin!!

449. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169194 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Remnant-

The damage is done. The seeds of doubt are planted based on wild speculation. When this is done, over and over, slowly but surely doubt arises and the students faith is eroded, which was the plan all along. I call it the way an ant eats an elephant method. One bite at a time.

Really?
It's that easy?
Well, then you as much admitted you don't have much faith in faith then.
So much for faith.

It's as I said a few pages back, you lot really don't have any faith, or else you wouldn't be so fucking paranoid.

Glad you admitted it.

450. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169186 by Diacanu on April 25, 2008 at 3:36 pm

Bonzai-

Oh, don't you know?
Lies for Jesus are the truth!
The fabric of reality flips upside down like a heaving bitch for the saved!