German Catholics lose church rights for unpaid tax

31


Discussion by: PY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19699581

‘A German bishops’ decree which has just come into force says anyone failing to
pay the tax – an extra 8% of their income tax bill – will no longer be
considered a Catholic’.

Is it not just a little absurd for the unfortunate German Catholic faithful that their path to paradise can be intercepted by failing to pay earthly dues to Mother Church?

31 COMMENTS

  1. Monumental historical lavish cathedrals and bishops’ palaces were historically funded by tithes from the starving peasants of the middle ages. 
    Things have not changed much in some places!

  2. Seems the financial crisis that we hear about is a lot worse then the RCC would like to admit.
    Taking this stance means they are up shite alley without a couple of ha’pennies to rub together!

    Cos that is a pretty drastic bit of evangelical blackmail whichever way you dice it!

    I would say at this point…we are winning, cos they are crumbling!

  3. …and the peasant carpenters, stone masons, etc. were expected to volunteer their skills, time, and effort. My father helped build my childhood church. The roof/steeple was so steep and dramatic, one guy lost his life (working for free) others were injured. I could only imagine how many men died centuries ago.

  4. Let’s face it; every church eventually begs for money. They have lots of clever ways of doing this, but at some point in time, they rely on demands. “God is my source” becomes “You’re shortchanging God.” Amazing how such an abundant God and all his works of glory boil down to financial means dependent upon people’s pockets.

    edit: Why did I say “Let’s face it.?” duh I should have said churches need to face it that they beg for money.

  5. ‘A German bishops’ decree which has just come into force says anyone failing to pay the tax – an extra 8% of their income tax bill – will no longer be considered a Catholic’. 

    Which, if one is a Catholic, means going to the place of eternal damnation.

    In a homily that he gave on 25 March 2007, Pope Benedict XVI stated: “Jesus came to tell us that he wants us all in heaven and that hell, of which so little is said in our time, exists and is eternal for those who close their hearts to his love.” 

    Is eternal for those who close their hearts to his love or in this case, if you are a German Catholic and won’t stump up 8% of your hard earned salary. 

    Unfuckingbelievable!!! Robbing bastards. At least Dick Turpin wore a mask ffs.

    In the UK this is called ‘blackmail’ and against the law, secular law that is….”It may be defined as coercion involving threats of physical harm, threat of criminal prosecution, or threats for the purposes of taking the person’s money or property.”

    So, is it only German Catholics that will be no longer considered a Catholic? Will it mean mass excommunication? Or are these vile pricks just overstepping their remit here? Presumably it will be just those of employable age and lucky enough to have a job? Ya couldn’t make this nonsense up, could ya? 

    So much for God’s omni-benevolence and universal charitable status….the religious, ‘ave shit’em.

  6.  

    So, is it only German Catholics that will be no longer considered a
    Catholic? Will it mean mass excommunication? Or are these vile pricks
    just overstepping their remit here? Presumably it will be just those of
    employable age and lucky enough to have a job? Ya couldn’t make this
    nonsense up, could ya?

    ..But look on the bright side.  –

    Thousands of people will not be counted as “lapsed Catholics” to be included in their membership figures 
    –  or do you think there will be a classic theist double-think here?

    You’d think an omnipotent god would be able to arrange a simple little thing  funding his chosen establishment, without having to resort to materialist tax mechanisms organised by a secular government!

  7. Will it mean mass excommunication? Or are these vile pricks just overstepping their remit here?

    I think it is a desperate last ditch gamble.
    The RCC hierarchy in Germany would never play such draconian brinkmanship if there was any other way.
    They are obviously so strapped for the readies they must lay it all on the line.
    They would have made a in depth analysis of the likelihood of this ploy succeeding and have concluded it is a viable, if desperate, measure…simply they think they can get away with it.

    If they have miscalculated it will be a catastrophic blow to global RCC ego and influence, it could even be the end of them cos once one diocese collapses the rest go like dominoes, scale that up to a country and you have the makings of the end times made flesh!

    They are betting on a one throw of the dice scenario…in this age of national financial meltdown, that is not a brave move just one steeped in abject misery of a religion in steep decline and deep gut freezing fear that they are indeed doomed.
    Whatever it can only ever be a delaying tactic, Germany cannot with the best will in the world float the Vatican on the backs of the legions of the faithful for very long, maybe Benedict is praying a miracle is just around the corner.

    Now it depends on how well they assessed the blackmail threat, it might be their biggest miscalculation in 2000 years, and considering they are on a downward spiral of epic proportions in the last decade, there is not a betting office in Christendom that would offer evens on them getting it right!

  8. As the great George Carlin said…

    But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. 

    So there is always room for a bit data massaging to get the figures up.

  9. Correcto mundo…well religion anyway…a lot of clergy are just gormless…

    When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told.  

    ….never fails to make me laugh.

    BTW, he also said….

    Catholic — which I was until I reached the age of reason.

  10. “But a priest from Mannheim in south-western Germany, Father Lukas Glocker, said the tax was used to do essential good works.
    “With kindergarten, with homes for elderly or unemployed, we’ve got really good things so I know we need the tax to help the German country to do good things.””

    In which he conveniently forgets that the the German state, i.e. the taxpayer, pays for 90-100% of all the costs of all those institutions, not from church coffers. The remaining small portion of the costs falling on the churches is being reduced year by year, often through thinly veiled blackmail by the churches. But they are still privileged as “sponsors” of social services, even when they add nothing to the finances at all. A few communities have already decided, enough is enough, and cut ties with the church as a “sponsor” of kindergartens. The churches are not just paying less than 10%, they also reserve the supreme right to decide whom they want to fire or hire in these institutions, including basing the decision on people’s private life, i.e. sexual orientation, marital status etc. “Doing good for society” is the fairy tale that they use to dupe the uninformed. The vast majority of their budget is used to pay for clerical salaries and internal training. The two large clerical charities in Germany, Caritas and Diakonie, are effectively sponsored by the churches at 2%. Two percent. It’s a gigantic game of shenanigans played by the churches, which finance incredibly luxurious lifestyle of bishops and above, and almost their entire missionary operations in Latin America and South Africa through German money alone, billions of Euros of state subsidies and transfers, in addition to the church tax.

  11. I like this idea of pay for pray. Even better idea would be to cut the state funding and tax exempts for churches, and let the believers pay the whole bill. I you have to pay, let’s say, 20% of you earnings to BS factory, maybe you would start questioning what are paying for.

  12. When the pope decided to infest Blighty the RCC tried to raise upwards of half the cash required hoping that they would get the same response as JP2 did a decade or two before…

    But…

    “I wouldn’t want to say that the reaction has been lukewarm but it
    certainly hasn’t been red hot,” says Clifford Longley, columnist for The
    Tablet. “I noticed in my own parish that they still have tickets
    available for the Hyde Park vigil and the Newman beatification. We’re
    not in a situation where people are queuing around the block for
    tickets.”

    The UK government presumably made up the shortfall.
    The government had to fork out 20 million, the Church barely made 7 after initially boasting they would pay 9 million
    But my google foo is not up to grubbing around Catholic sites for the breakdowns.

    Thing is this is an unmitigated embarrassment for the Catholics. it got worse there was a tacit admittance after the visit that things were ‘difficult’, but that report has strangely disappeared, I think it was in a Catholic Herald article last year.
    Try and find any full report on the net, very bare with a few prattling about enthusiasm in the shires  for the visit which never actually happened at the visit, there seems a marked  paucity of post visit narration, its as if they wanted to forget the debacle to save Benedict’s blushes.
    Certainly the sycophantic mewling by the UK media before the visit never carried on afterwards, with JP2 it went on for months afterwards, this one died in a day….viva le difference!
    The end times are biting their ass…and they know it!

  13. I know it’s not really my concern, but I can’t help but point out in these situations how odd it is that religious people seem to be so blinkered (or indoctrinated!) into thinking that they must be tied to a pre-established church administration. In this case, why should Catholics not be perfectly happy to stop paying taxes to the RCC and just set up their own church that could stand for exactly the same superstitious nonsense and have all the same rituals as the RCC, but they can administer it themselves? Why do so many Christians feel unhappy about the church that they’re in?  Just set up a church that stands 100% for what they believe in!

    It’s like with Anglicans who disagree with the inequality for women and homosexuals within their church. Why moan and dither?  Why not set up another version of the Anglican church that is all-inclusive?

    At the other end you have Anglicans who are upset by having women clerics, so they jump over to the Catholic church!!! Surely they’re still compromising their beliefs, or they’d have been Catholics all along? Why not set up an Anglican church for bigots?

  14. I never imagined that some people pay taxes to belong to a church.

    On the surface, so what?  Is it any different than paying some huge fee to be a member of a country club?  If you want to belong, this is what it costs!  If you want some service, this is what it costs!  No one is extorting anything from anyone.

    But when you realize that ‘the need for salvation’ or ‘you’ll burn in hell’ has been literally sold to these people from a very young age, this turns out to be fairly equivelant to a drug dealer giving away heroine or crack until the victim is trapped in his percieved need.  When they cannot imagine existence without their poison, the dealer then has a cash cow.

  15. ‘A German bishops’ decree which has just come into force says anyone
    failing to pay the tax – an extra 8% of their income tax bill – will
    no longer be considered a Catholic’.

    Factually this would be nice. Don’t pay and you’re out of trouble. Unfortunately it is even worse.
    There is something called “Dotationen”. This is an awful lot of money (around 459 million € a year!) paid to the churches since around 200 years as compensation for expropriations at that time. The original idea was to pay this just to the priests and bishops who lost their secular parts of their positions. But this ideqa got lost so we pay until today! Totally it is a sum of nearly 15 billion € paid directly or by tax depreciation every year. Every person in Germany who has not left the church officially pays around 100.000 up to 150.000 € during his or her life as church tax depending on duration of the worklife and interest rates. As you see the churches in Germany are not poor. But they are not ashamed to ask their people for money besides that! ‘The state pays for the education of priest, for the maintenance of Buildings and other things. They are the best thieves I’ve ever seen (like bankers and brokers!)’cause they do it in public, everyone knows it and nobody can do anything against it. Besides the state collects the taxes for the churches so you will pay as long as you are member. No choice!

  16. ‘A German bishops’ decree which has just come into force says anyone
    failing to pay the tax – an extra 8% of their income tax bill – will
    no longer be considered a Catholic’.

    Factually this would be nice. Don’t pay and you’re out of trouble. Unfortunately it is even worse.
    There is something called “Dotationen”. This is an awful lot of money (around 459 million € a year!) paid to the churches since around 200 years as compensation for expropriations at that time. The original idea was to pay this just to the priests and bishops who lost their secular parts of their positions. But this ideqa got lost so we pay until today! Totally it is a sum of nearly 15 billion € paid directly or by tax depreciation every year. Every person in Germany who has not left the church officially pays around 100.000 up to 150.000 € during his or her life as church tax depending on duration of the worklife and interest rates. As you see the churches in Germany are not poor. But they are not ashamed to ask their people for money besides that! ‘The state pays for the education of priest, for the maintenance of Buildings and other things. They are the best thieves I’ve ever seen (like bankers and brokers!)’cause they do it in public, everyone knows it and nobody can do anything against it. Besides the state collects the taxes for the churches so you will pay as long as you are member. No choice!

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