Miracle Healing – It has reached my family too!

37


Discussion by: scientific_philosopher

Dear students and friends of the scientific secular thought!

I consider myself privileged to have been raised by my grandparents. Unlike many of my friends grandparents they were not religious and especially my grandfather whom I love to death and miss dearly has always encouraged me to think for myself, instead of blindly accepting everything that I was told to believe. I'll never forget this moment that I shared with my grandpa and it has had a life changing effect on me ever since. I was about 12 years old when I, like every child who is curious about the world, asked him, "Grandpa where do we come from"? He replied:"What you do you think where we come from"? The naive child that one is at that age I just said what I picked up among relatives and friends, I told him:"We were created by God and he placed us on this earth". He looked at me, smiled and said:"How do you know that you were created by GodSon, just because people claim certain things that does not necessarily make them true. You are growing up so quickly and you are at an age where things may start to become a little confusing at times. And there will be many people who will try to take advantage of your young impressionable mind. And when you don't keep your mind  sharp you may fall for the dulness and manipulation of the simple minded. Always remember, simple thoughts equal a simply mind. The strongest weapon a man has, is not his fist nor his never ending appetite for control, power, war and violence, no it's his intellect. The only way to truly preserve your freedom is by questing everything around you. The only way of living a truly good life, is when you make an afford to understand what is going on around you, how things work and what they are made of. Never accept the thoughts of others, but rather acquire your own. What I'm going to say to you now is in my humble opinion the truth, it would be irresponsible as loving grandfather to lie to my grandson, nevertheless I would like to ask you to remain skeptical about what I'm going to say and urge you to do your own research regarding this matter. I recommend you to start with Charles Darwin and then to dive deeper into the orginion of religion, human history and so on.

We were not created by a deity. But we rather created the deity in our image for our own selfish purposes. Humans seek purpose in everything, and when they can't find any, they just make it up. This in fact is related to the human mind, the human mind has problems handling abstract ideas, that cannot be explained by human reason at first. People are consumed by the fear of the unknown, the idea of being completely alone and that life must come to an end is for our mind somehow not acceptable. Therefore it creates and accepts an entity to fill up these gaps. As the mind also constantly is making connections between random events to analyze and find patterns, it has a strong need to find purposes for anything. This also applies for itself, hence the question arises “why am I” and an answer has to be found. Religion and God may seem to offer the simple mind an explanation of where we came from and where we are going. But if you educate yourself and  when your knowledge increases religion's explanation becomes less plausible. And sooner or later  it'll make no sense. At the moment, there are many unanswered thoughts and questions, but as long as you keep learning and you're taking one step at a time, you will eventually solve all the mysteries of your mind and some may never be solved. But you can only accomplish this by maintaining your commitment to finding the truth no matter how difficult the task may be. So my advice is, read, study and think. If you come to the same conclusions as me, then I guess there may be some shred of truth to my words. If not at least I have helped finding your own".

From this day on, my grandpa always made me as he said, read, study and think. He never answered my questions directly but merely challenged me to seek the knowledge myself, helping and nourishing my mind to think independently and not to follow set ways or thought patterns. And honestly looking back on this I am eternally grateful for the extraordinary man, who had no school diploma or education except for the one he has acquired himself, to have had him in my life. Tears are rolling down my face, as I now understand 20 something years later what impact he had on me and my academic carrer. But why am I telling you all this, well the other day I had lunch with my biological mother and father, my biological mother is my grandpa's daughter. Raised by him and taught with the same values, think free, educate yourself, don't follow others and make your own path. Well she has chosen her own path one could say, she has become religious after dropping me off at my grandparents house, she wanted to entirely devote herself to God, along with my biological father. After she dropped me off I haven't seen her or them for about 19 years. My grandpa never made any excuses for her, he always said:"This is what happens when you let others get into your head and when your mind is lacking the intellectual knowledge to defend itself against illogic and irrationalism". So to get back to the subject, my biological mother told me that she's has schedule an appointment for my half brother at the local church to cast out his curse. Yup, you heard right, she said curse. She and my half sister firmly believe that my half brother has been cursed and that this is the cause of his deteriorating health condition. They have not once considered that my half brother's, who is in his mid 40's, deteriorating health condition may be due to his unhealthy life style. He got diabetes when he turned 24, he disregarded the doctors orders, he never maintain his blood sugar level properly and whenever doctors told him hey you gotta keep the blood sugar level down, he just replied to them:"Don't tell me what to do, you don't know ****". Well you can image what the consequences of his reckless behavior were. After years of drinking heavily, not watching his diet, he suffered a stroke and subsequently lost his eyesight, his kidneys failed and he is now bedridden. I am sorry if I may seem a bit emotionless, but I am not very close to my biological mom, dad, half brother and sister side of the family.

I guess why I'm sharing this story with you is the fact, that they actually belive in miracle healing, in this day and age. And they are seriously going to church to heal my brother from his curse. What really puzzles me is that religious individuals like them take this illogical premise not only for their own lifes but they also shape our society. Furthermore, they keep on teaching this nonsense to future generations. Instead of actually thinking about themselves, what may have led certain individuals to a certain condition or stage in life. What I find appalling about religion or religious people in general is the lack of individual thought. Years after debating religious apologists I have noticed that they all repeat themselves, they all sound alike. Some try to rephrase certain apologies but they are in it's core the very same. Like my grandpa said, if you keep thinking simple thoughts you will end up with a simple mind. And honestly the bible or any holy scripture is simple in every form. People believed the earth was flat, the sky was made out of water and that stars were little holes in the floor of heaven through which God could watch them through. Yet, the majority of religious people of today, accepts and follows the morals of peasants who lived hundreds if not thousands of years ago without even considering that single fact that it was written by humans for humans hundreds of years ago. Now back to the miracle healing that my family is hopping for.

Claims of miraculous healings are abounded and I want to give my reasoning for why I don't find any of them convincing in the least. For one, miraculous healing claims are invariably shrouded in ambiguity. Most miracle stories are similar to the following hypothetical one. "My cousin Susan was miraculously healed by God. She had a cancerous tumor in her breast and things didn't look good for her. She told her church congregation of the unfortunate news, and so, they all prayed for God to heal her. When she returned to the doctor two weeks later for a mammogram, the cancer was gone. Isn't God great!?" What's wrong with this story, you might ask? Well, for one, there are several things we don't know. For example, did cousin Susan, in fact, have a cancerous tumor or was it simply a breast cyst a condition that causes a temporary lump in the breast from a blocked milk duct. It is estimated that as many as 7,000 women a year are misdiagnosed with breast cancer. So, we really don't know for sure that cousin Susan actually had a cancerous tumor and that, after prayer, the cancerous tumor miraculously disappeared. People often inaccurately relate stories or greatly exaggerate them. Some people are habitual liars, and sometimes, people are just honestly mistaken. All in all, we know that people lie, exaggerate, distort and are often mistaken about the facts. What we don't know is that a supernatural entity performs miracles in response to our prayers. 

Here is a little food for thought about miracle healing that every theist should consider: if there was such a thing as miraculous healing, why isn't there ever a totally unambiguous case of it? For example: why isn't there ever a case where a person that had recently lost a limb in a tragic accident is observed growing back that limb after being prayed for? Or why isn't it ever observed that a person with third degree burns over a large portion of their body is instantaneously healed after being prayed for? Even if such healings were an extreme rarity, we would never hear the end of it. Entire books would be written about these mysterious phenomena and at least a few medical journals would have papers describing these occurrences. News networks would be interviewing baffled doctors about their experiences dealing with these cases. Yet, we see nothing of the sort.

Each one of the hypothetical scenarios I described above would be totally unambiguous instances of miracle healing. They would each be visually apparent and their occurrence would leave absolutely no doubt of the existence of the supernatural. Since we don't see things of that nature, it is a reasonable conclusion that, at the very least, no supernatural entities interact within the universe to perform miracles. At the very most, it is an indication that gods do not exist and that it's all just wishful thinking…

Thank you for taking the time to read all this and I appreciate your comments and thoughts!

Best wishes,
Scientific Philosopher

37 COMMENTS

  1. Growing an arm back, recovering instantly from third degree burns – those things just aren’t humanly possible. I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and their bodies may fight harder to survive. If people don’t feel loved, they have less reason to live. I don’t think it’s proof of God but I think it’s evidence of the power of positive thinking and support in terms of recovering.

    • In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:

      I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and their bodies may fight harder to survive. If people don’t feel loved, t…

      Is there any evidence you can cite to support this? The studies I’ve seen show no benefit at all for prayer in terms of healing, and in some cases the health of the person being prayed for deteriorated.

      When you say ‘I think…’ do you actually mean ‘I imagine…’, or ‘I speculate…’, or perhaps ‘I want to believe…’

      • In reply to #4 by bob_e_s:

        Is there any evidence you can cite to support this? The studies I’ve seen show no benefit at all for prayer in terms of healing, and in some cases the health of the person being prayed for deteriorated.

        When you say ‘I think…’ do you actually mean ‘I imagine…’, or ‘I speculate…’, or perhaps ‘I want to believe…’

        No, I don’t have any studies to cite for ya.

        When I say “I think” I refer to my brain/mind and my personal ideas of what reality is based off of personal experience. What do you mean when you say “I think?”

        So I guess, I’m giving my opinion… not stating scientific facts… No opinions allowed here? Or were you seriously looking for clarification? Serious question. That may have been on the terms for these forums, I forget. If so sorry. God it’s like my skin burns when I visit these forums, haha.

        • In reply to #12 by BipolarAltruist:

          In reply to #4 by bobes:

          When I say “I think” I refer to my brain/mind and my personal ideas of what reality is based off of personal experience. What do you mean when you say “I think?”

          So I guess, I’m giving my opinion… not stating scientific facts… No opinions allowed here? Or were you seriously looking for clarification? Serious question. That may have been on the terms for these forums, I forget. If so sorry. God it’s like my skin burns when I visit these forums, haha.

          >

          Your summation was ‘I think it’s evidence of the power of positive thinking and support in terms of recovering’.

          It’s not evidence. It’s your opinion. And your opinion makes not one iota’s difference to whether there is any positive influence prayer can have on health.

          Your assertation, via your opinion, is that it can. Evidence from the actual real world suggests it can’t.

          You are absolutely entitled to your opinions and I’d be interested in hearing them, but my point was in this case your opinion is at odds with fact.

    • Hi BipolarAltruist

      I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits

      Yes it can. But prayer and religion can also prevent us from making rational decisions. I would rather do the best I can do , make the best decisions I can make , rather than spending the rest of my life worrying, is some unproven supernatural being ever going to answer my prayers. If I ever need a miracle, I would surround myself with loved ones rather than strangers and I would do my damn-est to connect with them in an honest and humane way, and I would also do my utmost to be present and willing to engage at all times. The idea of being in some kind of la la , disconnected , petrified , guilt laden , desperate , state of mind , while my life fritters away , does not appeal to me.

      In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:

      Growing an arm back, recovering instantly from third degree burns – those things just aren’t humanly possible. I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and their bodies may fight harder to survive. If people don’t feel loved, t…

    • In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:

      Growing an arm back, recovering instantly from third degree burns – those things just aren’t humanly possible. I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and their bodies may fight harder to survive. If people don’t feel loved, they have less reason to live.

      Like others I’m unsure about this, nice though it sounds. What would the difference be if someone prayed for a sick person, but didn’t contact them or their loved ones? In other words, what difference between care and support versus care, support and prayer?

      What is more, I’m afraid (as a psychiatrist) I’ve met a lot of people wracked by guilt that their prayers didn’t work, concluding that, since God cannot fail, they must be at fault.

      So, as in the OP, I’m unaware of any good evidence of prayers producing reasonably consistent benefits, while prayer can unrealistically raise expectations that add to rather than reduce unhappiness.

      • In reply to #15 by steve_hopker:
        Like others I’m unsure about this, nice though it sounds. What would the difference be if someone prayed for a sick person, but didn’t contact them or their loved ones? In other words, what difference between care and support versus care, support and prayer?

        What is more, I’m afraid (as a psychiatrist) I’ve met a lot of people wracked by guilt that their prayers didn’t work, concluding that, since God cannot fail, they must be at fault.

        So, as in the OP, I’m unaware of any good evidence of prayers producing reasonably consistent benefits, while prayer can unrealistically raise expectations that add to rather than reduce unhappiness.


        That’s interesting. I see your point.

      • In reply to #15 by steve_hopker:

        In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:

        Growing an arm back, recovering instantly from third degree burns – those things just aren’t humanly possible. I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and their bodies may fight harder to su…

        Prayer studies of various sorts have been done, and the general gist is that if people are aware of the prayer it has the same positive affect as any other placebo.

        For example, they royal family (UK) has millions praying for their health every night, but they have about the same rate of health issues as the general public.

        Wikipedia has an article on the topic.

      • In reply to #15 by steve_hopker:

        In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:

        Growing an arm back, recovering instantly from third degree burns – those things just aren’t humanly possible. I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and their bodies may fight harder to su…

        Except you are a psychologist, not a minister in Scripture, so how would you know the answer to the subject on prayers? they should be seeking a ministers help for free rather than paying for a service in an area you are not fundamentally sound on yourself. Many prayers go unanswered. Its funny how everyone feels they can live their lives how they want to, sinning all the way and only want to prayer and have their prayers answered when something goes wrong and the minute it doesn’t get answered, suddenly they are left feeling alone and disappointed that there must be no God. If they truly understood scripture and studied it, for one they would have all their prayers answered but that doesn’t mean its going to come right now. God will send his prayer requests and blessing in His due time. If you don’t have faith, don’t expect much results. If they keep praying for something over and over, their faith must have been weak to begin with and I can say this for certain because anyone who understands scripture and walks and talks like Jesus and has a communion with Him, wouldn’t have any need to see or talk to a psychologist anyhow.

        • Cheeses! You are a very twisted, sick person. And short of being made to suffer by fate, you’ll live and die proudly, or simply stupidly and stubbornly, ill – and attempting to make others miserable AND as ill as you are.

          I noticed your post by chance, on the opening page of the forum.

          Would that my luck had been better! I know your type is under pretty much every slimy rock, and that you are a living thing, but I would prefer not to see such things unprepared!

          May you find healing and become a mere human being in mind as well as body!

          In reply to #34 by harley:

          In reply to #15 by steve_hopker:

          In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:

          Growing an arm back, recovering instantly from third degree burns – those things just aren’t humanly possible. I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and t…

    • In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:
      I suspect depression has evolutionary advantage. Let’s say there is a tough winter and there are not enough resources to get through. What you want is the least fit people to commit suicide, rather than consume resources and die. Depression goes with lower food consumption. If the group says to you “Please don’t die”, they are saying you don’t belong in that group which should have the effect of lifting the depression.

      • Roedy,

        Quite simply , By your logic, Schizophrenics , Bi Polar 1’s, would have being eradicated long ago. Yet they both remain steady at 1%. Don’t take it personally but your talking nonsense.

        Susceptibility to mental illness exists in the gene pool , this mixed with experience and environment will ultimately decide if a person goes through life unaffected. Don’t know what this evolutionary stuff is about.

        In reply to #23 by Roedy:

        In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:
        I suspect depression has evolutionary advantage. Let’s say there is a tough winter and there are not enough resources to get through. What you want is the least fit people to commit suicide, rather than consume resources and die. Depression goes with lower food…

  2. Thanks, “justinsaracen” I totally agree with your comment about the chief benefit of prayer. Those doing it gain comfort from the satisfaction of feeling that they have done something “positive” for the subject of their prayers. Of course there are also those occasions where the religious get together in their thousands to pray for, say, an end to a drought. Then, when there is no end and it gets worse (like the drought in Texas a couple of years ago!) they will probably say their prays were not sufficiently sincere etc., Here’s where Christianity should take some advice from the Islamic faith – they always add : “God willing”…..#2](#comment-box-2′) by justinesaracen:*

    In reply to #1 by BipolarAltruist:

    Growing an arm back, recovering instantly from third degree burns – those things just aren’t humanly possible. I think group prayer for the sick can foster community and lift people’s spirits. People see that they are loved and their bodies may fight harder to su…

  3. I am touched by the affection and admiration you hold for your grandfather. Obviously I don’t know all the circumstances behind your biological parents’ actions, but not surprisingly I sense a deep hurt.

    Having followed my own path toward truth, I am convinced that there is a spiritual dimension to our existence which cannot be explained or experienced by pure logic and reason: but I don’t think that’s because I over-simplify things. However, there are people in all walks of life who take a simplistic, unthinking approach to just about everything – including religion and spiritual matters. This often leads people into making unwise decisions and selfish choices, even in the name of God. Its very sad, it hurts those around and gives God and religion a very bad press.

    On the matter of miracle healing, I have heard accounts of people whose limbs have grown back, but you’re right in that I can’t verify these things to satisfy myself that these accounts are actually true. If they take place in, say, Venezuela or the middle of Africa, I can’t go there and interview the people myself: I have to decide to rely (or not) on the accounts of the people involved. Your grandfather was right that truth should be sought no matter how hard it might be to do.

    If the types of miracles you mentioned as hypothetical examples did happen, personally I’m not convinced, that they would be widely reported and we’d never hear the end of it. We all have a tendency towards putting forward views or news that we feel support our position and news reporters are no different – and neither is anyone who picks up the paper and reads the report. (When I say ‘we all’, I mean people in general rather that all people without exception). To follow my line of thought (which you may not agree with): if such indisputable miracles occurred and were reported and widely accepted, that would mean that deities do interact with us. Or, to make it more specific to the Christian backdrop of your family’s situation, that God exists and interacts with people. This would mean that people who did not believe would be the unreasonable ones. People who call themselves free thinking may not like that. Therefore, the reporting may be undermined, or suppressed – and even if it isn’t, people may choose not to believe it.

    Going back to your grandfather, I do not necessarily agree with his conclusion on life, but through reading your post, I have gained a tremendous respect for him, and the lasting impression he has made upon you is evident. We all have people in our lives who have made an impact on us – who have helped form who we are and who we become. Thank you for your post.

    • In reply to #3 by Lonevoice:

      I am touched by the affection and admiration you hold for your grandfather. Obviously I don’t know all the circumstances behind your biological parents’ actions, but not surprisingly I sense a deep hurt.

      Having followed my own path toward truth, I am convinced that there is a spiritual dimension to…

      You mention some pretty big ifs. First there is no documented case of miracle healing working for any disease that is not known to go into remission due to the normal activity of a normal immune system.No limbs have grown back. No burnt skin has regenerated. You haven’t flown to Latin america or Africa to check out a story about a limb growing back, but others have, and in every case no evidence could be found.

      You seem to want to believe in God.Why would you admire a being that can end all human misery, but does not? Why would a single miracle convince you god exists when tens of thousands of innocents die every day and god doesn’t lift a finger to help them?If god exists he has a lot of explaining to do.

    • Hi Lonevoice

      I can’t verify these things to satisfy myself that these accounts are actually true. If they take place in, say, Venezuela or the middle of Africa

      Venezuela or Africa are examples where superstition is common place. Why not the UK,Germany,France , etc. The reason of course is that in such countries the rational and modus operandi for defining something to be true , is resident.

      To follow my line of thought (which you may not agree with): if such indisputable miracles occurred and were reported and widely accepted, that would mean that deities do interact with us. Or, to make it more specific to the Christian backdrop of your family’s situation, that God exists and interacts with people. This would mean that people who did not believe would be the unreasonable ones. People who call themselves free thinking may not like that. Therefore, the reporting may be undermined, or suppressed – and even if it isn’t, people may choose not to believe it.

      It’s really simple , if something exists or has occurred that defies what is materialistically possible , then let’s see the evidence. Heresay won’t do , have we learned anything from Alien Abductions , Disappearing Suns , Moving Statues , Conspiracy theories , its a long list.

      In reply to #3 by Lonevoice:

      I am touched by the affection and admiration you hold for your grandfather. Obviously I don’t know all the circumstances behind your biological parents’ actions, but not surprisingly I sense a deep hurt.

      Having followed my own path toward truth, I am convinced that there is a spiritual dimension to…

  4. A young chap who wrote into RDFRS put up a link to a document , where he described his reasons for disbelief. The document was intended for a loved one , who was religious, and as I recall , if they were to ‘go out’ or marry , she would want him to actively partake in her religion. So his document contained all the reasons he could not do this. He was going to present this to her in the hope that somehow she could drop her insistence that he become religious. The reason I tell you this is that I found a simple observation that resonated very much with me at the time. And it’s essentially along these lines.. for every person that experiences revelation or deliverance there is another who perishes. For some there ‘prayers’ are answered and for others there situations dis-improve. The absurdity of ‘belief’ is an individual who is doomed by circumstances , leaves the world feeling that there heartfelt , earnest and special prayers were never answered. That is terrible , it really is.

    And of course the strongest proponents of miracles are those that experience them , skewing the fact that these events occur at random.

    Is someone more deserving of a miracle than an other. At then end of the day , this is what this logic presupposes..
    If your answer is Yes , then there were many undeserving that received a miracle , and there were many deserving that never received one.

  5. If there were a religious sect that sought out and prayed for victims of, say, Downs Syndrome and only one out of every twenty were transformed then we would be having a very, very different discussion. When someone says that they have heard of a few cases of a debilitating condition being cured somewhere do they never consider probability theory?

  6. My wife of 27 years had a very rare form of cancer from which fewer than 2% of people make even a limited recovery. She was cared for by two of the three best specialists in the UK (I think they saw her as a bit of a challenge, and in the nicest possible way a “research project”, which neither of us objected to. You don’t, in the circumstances). The cancer therapy was onerous, painful and depressing, including months in hospital on nil-by-mouth and bed-bound and intubated, whilst fully conscious and lucid.

    Eventually the tumour shrank. Quite radically. The doctors were pretty smug and may well have used words like “miracle”.

    Then she got an infection and died of pneumonia.

    I was an atheist before, but now – if he exists – I just want to kick god in the balls and tell him I hate him. He can do what the fuck he likes with me thereafter. It seems to be his normal modus operandi anyway.

    • In reply to #8 by Stevehill:

      I was an atheist before, but now – if he exists – I just want to kick god in the balls and tell him I hate him. He can do what the fuck he likes with me thereafter. It seems to be his normal modus operandi anyway.

      He is, if he exist, without a doubt the biggest douchebag in the history of the universe.
      I’ll gladly join those condemned to the eternal BBQ….the company is much better.

      Sorry for your loss, mate.

    • In reply to #8 by Stevehill:

      My wife of 27 years had a very rare form of cancer from which fewer than 2% of people make even a limited recovery. She was cared for by two of the three best specialists in the UK (I think they saw her as a bit of a challenge, and in the nicest possible way a “research project”, which neither of u…

      Check this out, just for the sake of it.

      There is religion (which creates chaos and killed millions and still going.)
      There are many who regard themselves and call themselves Christians. But are they? Really?
      There are many Thieves and Wolves (Money Mongers) so called churches, and their big businesses, money making factories.
      and then there is a humble christian who worships God, and has found life and lives in peace. This simple person has experienced Spiritual things and have heard audible voices, seen visions and understands differently than the multitude who like sheep follow wolves in sheep’s clothing.
      Why? Seek and you will Find! Have a look please, you all have a sound mind, and decide for yourselves.
      Thanks for reading this. God Bless you.

    • In reply to #8 by Stevehill:

      My wife of 27 years had a very rare form of cancer from which fewer than 2% of people make even a limited recovery. She was cared for by two of the three best specialists in the UK (I think they saw her as a bit of a challenge, and in the nicest possible way a “research project”, which neither of u…

      I’m so so sorry for your loss and your heartache. I really am. I could not even begin to imagine the pain you went through and are going through. I understand how you may be angry at God but I can assure you God did not wish that on your wife nor did he play a part of her death. If she believed I know she is with him in a better place now than she had here. That doesn’t mean without you. That just means this horrible world of death and disease we live in. I just think your anger should be focused at Satan rather than God. I believe he is the root of her suffering and death. Satan is the God of these horrible things. You don’t find that stuff in heaven for a reason. God has his reasons for everything and we may or may not agree with them or even understand them but its all for the good. Please talk to someone in the church. They will help you to better understand God’s purpose and reasons why things happen the way they do. They can help you with your pain. You never know. Maybe God brought your wife home to him to open your eyes and seek him. Maybe he has a big plan for you through it all. Not knowing what the future holds his troublesome but God knows it and if you find Him and your wife is there with Him, you will be reunited one day. I am certain of this. God bless you brother. I hope time will heal your pain.

  7. Just another point.

    I recently watched a documentary on the Atkins diet. When it first came on the scene it seemed to defy the prevailing scientific view. How could all this intake of fat actually cause a person to loose weight. When stacked against the low fat diets , the weight loss was more consistent and people kept the weight off. There were no cravings , the promise was that you could eat all you wanted , just keep it low in carbs.

    The biggest problem that advocates had , was how could the high amount of calories , just disappear when they entered the body. A basic tenant of energy is that it can not disappear. Either it had to be converted to some other form , heat etc , or stored as fat.

    In the documentary we had advocates who were physicians , that stated that the reason that a person could take in all these calories via the high fat diet , was because of the complex metabolism of fats. The physician stated that fats were converted into many intermediary forms before it reached the cells. So in essence the body was working hard , this meant that the body could be burning calories while a person was stationary. It was also stated that calories , un-metabolised , actually passed through the body and could be measured as ketones in the urine.

    So when they looked at this , what was happening? Were calories disappearing , were people metabolising at a higher rate , where was the fat going if not onto our asses , and how was it possible that people were actually loosing weight.

    It turned out there was no significant increase in the rate of metabolism whilst stationary when compared to the low fat diets. They measured oxygen consumption to rule this out.

    Ketones in the urine as an explanation for the body passing out un-metabolised calories was largely debunked. There was a marginal increase but nothing to explain the general phenomenon of the seemingly disappearing calories.

    So what was it? , it was very simple , when they looked at it , the high fat , high protein diet , generally filled people up , using a significantly less amount of calories ( when compared to low fat diets ). So people were effectively taking in less calories , the high fat diet was actually suppressing hunger and appetite. Ironically people were eating less , even when they could eat all they could want.

    Now that story is beautiful ,

    It shows us how a phenomenon can arise that seemingly defies reason and logic. The Atkins diet? , a truly miraculous diet :)

    • In reply to #19 by Pauly01:

      Just another point.

      I recently watched a documentary on the Atkins diet. When it first came on the scene it seemed to defy the prevailing scientific view. How could all this intake of fat actually cause a person to loose weight. When stacked against the low fat diets , the weight loss was more cons…

      The atkins diet is low carbs, not high fat. Low carb diets are generally also low calorie diets. Lean meat is low in carbs and quite filling.

      • Have a look at this

        “When most people think of eating a low-carb diet, they tend to think of it as being a protein-based one. This is false. All traditional carnivorous diets, whether eaten by animals or humans, are more fat than protein with a ratio of about eighty percent of calories from fat and twenty percent of calories from protein. Similarly, the main fuel produced by a modern low-carb diet should also be fatty acids derived from dietary fat and body fat. We find in practice that free fatty acids are higher in the bloodstream on a low-carb diet compared with a conventional diet.[vii] [viii] “

        http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fat-not-protein.html#.UgJe_dLYhaY

        We’ve hard it all down the years , Low Carb-high protein , Low Carb-high fat , low carb-high good fat

        Anyway a quote from the man himself

        “One of the big reasons why this diet works so successfully is because you eat protein and fat. And you eat them in just about the sixty to forty proportions in which they usually occur together in nature: in a reasonably lean cut of beef for example.” (From Dr. Atkins’ Diet Revolution: The Famous Vogue Superdiet Explained in Full)”

        In reply to #21 by canadian_right:

        In reply to #19 by Pauly01:

        Just another point.

        I recently watched a documentary on the Atkins diet. When it first came on the scene it seemed to defy the prevailing scientific view. How could all this intake of fat actually cause a person to loose weight. When stacked against the low fat diets ,…

        Sounds like a high fat diet to me.

        This diet has being somewhat sanitised for the modern audience.

        Have a look at this also and this is from an atkins advocate.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CITpxdvnklQ

  8. I went to see Ernest Angely doing miracle healings. (He threw me out (literally) as demonically possessed, but that is another story).

    I discovered several things:

    1. those who are healed to walk, go and sit back in their wheelchairs after the healing. They could walk a little all along.
    2. the amplifiers are turn up to painful levels to heal people who were deaf.
    3. most of the healing are of something like cancer, where there is nothng to see before and after. It is just that the person is convinced they are healed.

    I got “slain in the spirit”. I experienced a slightly novel sensation. I put it down to suddenly having the attention of the entire auditorium, the camera lights, and a couple of handsome young men waiting for me to fall in their arms.

    • In reply to #24 by Roedy:

      I went to see Ernest Angely doing miracle healings. (He threw me out (literally) as demonically possessed, but that is another story).

      I experienced a slightly novel sensation. I put it down to suddenly having the attention of the entire auditorium, the camera lights, and a couple of handsome young men waiting for me to fall in their arms

      Maybe I should check these healing meetings out. Then again, I suspect if I did fall into one of the handsome young men’s arms I would, sadly, be thrown out myself ;)

  9. There is a talk show on one of the Russian TV channels – they usually discuss things like (a woman shopped her husband into pieces, hid in the garded and planted onions above), BUT they did a decent program on a “healer” using tap water to “cure” cancers – the journalists summoned four of her patients, payed for thorough medical examination and found out that three of the patients never had had any cancer (for example one of them did not realize difference between mioma and cancer) but the fourth had enlarged lymph nodes, which, taking into account her advanced age, could be lymphoma. The oncologists were ready to do more tests, but she refused and went back for more tap water injections. We do not know her fate, but already the fact that poor woman had spent lot of money for tap water, instead, for example, bying decent food….

  10. First off let me start by saying how much respect I have for your Grandfather in teaching you to explore and create your own conclusions to your findings rather than taking the word of someone else as truth. I also had the same talk from my own father. This is what is so sad about this world we live in. Mom and Dad are so sure of their own beliefs that they instill it into their children as correct teaching. Being children are so “simple minded” they are subject to believing this must be the only and correct way.
    I however have studied and studied myself only to come up with a completely different conclusion as you have that there is a God and he is very very real. I also began with Darwin and his ideas became to me nothing but self made theories that he came up with only after his daughter drowned and the God he had been taught existed didn’t answer his prayers to return her to him. There is plenty of proof I have found that contradicts his theories but that would take a novel to write so I won’t start. I can only urge people to study it more and deeper. In order to do this, one must look at both side of the puzzle. From what Darwin is saying and believes and what God is saying in his word in the Bible. The Bible has answers all over it and can be very hard to decipher and figure out without help. If you are weak in the word and scripture, you will not be able to find the answers you are seeking unless you keep persisting and talking with those that do know it very well.
    I have also looked into other belief systems other than Christianity, such as Buddhism, Atheism, Judaism, the Mormon and Muslim beliefs. It is quite sad and disturbing that most of these faiths are exactly as you put it. Believed to be true because it has been taught to them as the true doctrine generation after generation but rarely does one dare to find the real truth themselves.
    What I found in these other religions with the exception of Atheism and Judaism, is not one can come up with a single prophecy written in their books that has come to pass as true. Judaism uses Old Testament beliefs and atheists don’t have a reason to prophesize anyhow. In the Koran, the only one is a self made prophecy by Mohammed that he would one day return to Mecca, which he did and can easily be done by anyone if they really want to. I could vacation in Hawaii and on my departure tell everyone, one day I will be back here and do it. But the Bible has thousands of prophecies in it and many are coming true to this day. If someone wanted someone to believe something so badly, who in their right mind would prophesize something they had no control over for fear their 50/50 chance may not happen? So why would so many be written in the Bible? And to top that off, yes the Bible was written by man, but only through the inspiration and words that God put into them and their mouths and onto paper, or papyrus or tablet. There were 66 books of different authors of the Bible. These books were not written at the same time in the same lands. These books were written thousands of years apart and by inspired men that did not know of each other. There are some that did as in the New Testament but did these authors live for thousands of years before them in other lands to study and learn what the others did before them so they didn’t contradict their writings in their own? No they did not. And the strangest of all is how does that happen and every single book not contradict what another teaches but rather fits together like a perfect puzzle? If you take even 10 different people today from around the different nations that all believed the same thing, and it doesn’t even have to be on religion, you will get so many different theories and ideas that none of it would make sense. Everyone would need to be on the same page. You could even do the same thing in a class room of 5 people all sitting together but not allowed to talk to the others. You would have different theories, things left out so it makes no sense and none would have any promises that something that hasn’t or can’t happen would as the Bible does. So how does that many books and authors fit so perfectly well over that much time. Remember the old testament is very very old. The new testament is only around 2000 years old. The old testament is around 3500 or so up to the New Testament. Many Old Testament books had not even been found until after the New Testament books were written yet fit in scripture to a T. Keep in mind, the churches and priests from the different tribes of Israel and nations put the actual Bible together hundreds of years after Christ died. There were to many different books across the lands and were only being taught from the books the lands had access to which was causing a big problem when nobody was getting the entire message. There are books that were not put in the Bible that were written because these authorities did not believe were the inspirations of God or had relevance to the Word. Others were found after the fact and not in whole due to age and deterioration such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, the book of Noah, the book of Enoch, the Gospel of Peter, etc, etc.) The Jews will not recognize the book of Daniel which is filled with prophecy. They do not believe he was a prophet of God, yet to this day his prophecies cannot be explained in any other way than thru a supernatural source.
    I speak to God myself every day. I do not hear an audible voice, most people do not. He speaks thru my heart. It took me a long long time to figure that out. I waited for him to talk but would hear nothing. It was when I found scriptures in the bible all over talking about heart that I finally put it together. (Remember the Bible talks in parables and sometimes takes rereading it 10, 20, maybe 50 times before understanding it). I can ask him for something or the answer to something and sometime throughout that day or week or maybe the month, it will be revealed to me in the most fascinating supernatural way that cannot be explained other than by God himself.
    I know a woman very deeply involved with him, who lead a life running with gangs, drinking and drugging and marking her body up with tattoos. Someone took her to a revival with what she called them at the time as crazy people but witnessed strange things occur there. One day soon after she prayed out to God and told him that she would stop living the life she has been living if he would prove to her He was real. Then she started seeing things everywhere on the scripture John 15:11 that states “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full”. Her family was not keen of her boyfriend at that time as he was heavy into crime and gang life but she had got a tattoo with his name which the family hated on her left chest above her heart. One day after praying to him and seeing these things, she was taking her boyfriend to work at a mine in Arizona. As they were passing a field of cattle grazing she noticed they were scared up very badly. She had passed by many times before and never noticed it so it caught her attention. Suddenly she realized the scars in the side of the cattle were a word. That word was JOY carved into the side of every cow. Her boyfriend was shocked as well as she wanted to make sure he saw it and she wasn’t losing her mind. On the way home, she noticed all the cows had returned to normal again. weeks went by and she continued to see this scripture. After awhile she got rid of her boyfriend and had the name whited out on the tattoo. The tattoo keep in mind was two hearts with his name in the middle. She just had the name blackened to look like two empty hearts. Finally she prayed out to Jesus one day while home alone and asked Him for understanding of it all. She then decided to take a shower. Suddenly she heard an audible voice that said to keep her Joy close to her heart forever. She almost slipped jumping out of the shower thinking someone was in her house. That’s when she saw it in the mirror. The tattoo she had, formed white letters before her eyes, into the words JOY where her boyfriends name once was. I have seen it and the letters are not like the tattoo itself which was very artistic and well done. Just plain white letters in a amateurish font.
    I wanted to share that because your post indicates nobody sees or hears of supernatural things like I have seen. I have spoken with this person first hand. My own mother and younger brother have had supernatural things occur, both heavenly and evil demonic stuff. These are not crazy people. I have known them my entire life and know they are level headed normal people.
    I believe and have learned that most prayers do not go answered because most of us do not repent for our sins and try to walk the Jesus walk. God cannot live in you and speak to you if sin already resides there and every last one of us have sinned on this earth. John 3:5 says unless one is born of water and the spirit, He cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Sin can’t coexist with God in heaven and the only way there is repenting your sins and believing that Jesus died for our sins. It was his own sacrifice and blood that cleansed us from it but we have to repent and sin no more. We will all continue to fall short now and again so we constantly must be asking the Lord for forgiveness and repent our sins. Scripture tells us the ONLY way to eternal life is thru Jesus.
    If you are looking for miracles to happen first in order to believe, then what does that say about your Faith in anything let alone whether there is a God or not. You are very weak in it. Last I checked, God is our creator. The creator doesn’t have to answer to its creation for anything. I’m sorry if this seems so forward and not sugar coated but its your salvation we are talking about here and believe it or not, even though I don’t know anything about you or who you are, I care about you and what happens to your soul after this world. I’m not going to push you to believe what I do, but you need to keep searching harder for the truth, because there is nothing I have found that is deeper than the Word of the Bible and the conclusions you have come up with without delving into the scriptures for the answer, proves to me that you are still being simple minded with simple thoughts and ideas.
    Also before I forget, I have also looked at Scientology. That is the biggest hogwash of them all. Especially for the foundation of their belief is science itself which believes that everything has a beginning and an end and that everything has an order. The core belief of science is the rule of Cause and Effect. You can’t have an Effect without a cause first. Now if there was no creator, than how was there a creation. If the beginning was the Big Bang THEORY, than there must be an end which scientology has a hard time with. Not to mention what caused the Big Bang THEORY. Science the biggest lie to the human mind there is. It is deceptive and nothing more than theories. Think about it. In grade school while growing up we all learned the earth is billions of years old and the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. They have found this by studying carbon levels in the fossils. Science has also taught us that things break down on a molecular level as things decay. By measuring carbon levels this way, we know how old these fossils are. Problem is they have pulled coal from the earth in rock dating 100 million years old, that has higher levels of carbon than it should if it is breaking down the way science says it should. Either the earth isn’t as old as its taught to be or the fossils are not as old as they are taught to be. If the fossils are not as old as they are claiming to be, then the Bible could very well be right on the money and we very well may have lived with them as recently as up to the great flood of Noah’s time. Food for thought. Dinosaurs are mentioned 41 times in the bible. For what purpose? Giants according to the word also roamed the earth before the flood. Large skeletal giants are being unearthed today as we speak. Google it.
    As for miracles and healings go, try awmi.net. I know nobody more knowledgeable in scripture than him. Andrew Wommack claims he does not have the gift of healing yet he does it all the time for people. He raised his own son from the dead off a slab in the morgue. Toe tagged and all.

  11. At Canadian Right in response to Lone Voices reply:

    Two things here that I need to chime in on. First, even if others have flown to these other countries to find the proof that limbs or whatever have occurred, how would they know unless they took the persons word for it anyways as they did not witness it first hand themselves. All they would see when they got there is another normal person walking around with limbs.
    Second you made the comment that God does nothing to lift a finger for all these thousands who are suffering daily. This shows how “simple minded” thinking gets people off track. Its much deeper and shows that there has been no studying on your part. I’m not trying to condemn you for it, as most of us in this world are guilty of it. There are people in church today that claim to be Christians that have never studied the bible and go to blend in and make others think they are saved. Those that do though are blessed and I only want that for you as much as I do for them. Sometimes it takes the hard truth to open someone’s eyes and knowing how to take constructive criticism goes a long way and says a lot about someone. If you really studied, and learned what scripture teaches, you would have learned that before Adam and Eve sinned in the garden, we did live in a perfect world free of disease, death, and suffering. God gives us something he gives no other creature on earth. Free will. We get the choice to do what we will. We can make bad poor choices or good choices. God cannot intervene or his Word will contradict itself. God does not wish for any of us to suffer but once Eve ate the forbidden fruit out of disobedience, it threw all of us into the world of darkness, suffering, disease, war, death, destruction and so on. We are born into sin when we are conceived in our mothers womb immediately because of it. If God were to intervene every time we make a bad decision and are hurt by it then he might as well forgive Satan as well and let him back into heaven. God is a loving God but he is also a wrathful and just God. As for those who are hurt by others actions or accidents, if they are truly following Gods word and living by it, they know they just need to call on him and he will deliver them. PSALM 91:11-16 states this. MATTHEW 7:7-8 Ask, and it will be given to you, seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For EVERYONE who asks receives, and he who seeks, finds, and to him who knocks, it will be open.
    And lets not forget the famous John3:16 verse. He loved the world so much, He gave us His only begotten son. This was to redeem us from the evil world we live in. Jesus’s sacrifice was for you just as much for me. He didn’t have to but he was the only one that could since he was the only man to ever walk this earth free of sin. His holy blood cleansed our sins. Past, present and future. Seems to me he has delivered us already, we just have to take it or do things are own way without him. We still have choice. It pains me now of what Jesus went through for us and then to have a non believer talk about Him that way when all he did was love us. The greatest sin of all is not believing in Jesus. Its the one sin that will surely damn a persons soul more than any other. Even the murderers in the world have a better chance. Just knowing that, I would be making very very certain without a reason of doubt that my theory on whether there is or isn’t a God is 100% right on the money. Can you? I can. I studied and studied. Even if I couldn’t though, I’d rather believe there was and make it to heaven by the skin of my teeth than not believe at all and end up in hell. I would rather believe and be wrong than believe there isn’t a God and be wrong and tormented in hell for all eternity.
    Remember though, if you are not walking with Jesus and do not believe IN Him, (note I said In and not Of Him. Believing In, means getting to know Him and having a direct relationship with him. Even Satan believes of Jesus, but that won’t save him.), means you are going to do things your way instead of letting God take the wheel. So don’t be to surprised when you ask and nothing happens. God gave us the choice, and if we want to do things our way, he will let us. Just don’t blame Him when things go wrong. He has nothing to explain to us. He is our creator. Last I checked, the creator doesn’t have to explain himself to his creation. Just like your children. When you tell them no or discipline them for something they were told no on and they do it anyhow, we as parents do not have to explain ourselves or the punishment to our children. You created them. Your rules are law. Just as Gods rules are law to us and our children. This brings balance. If you want to see what disobiedience to God looks like, just look around at the world we live in. Its chaotic. If you really want your eyes opened and to be shocked on how true and real God is, read THE HARBINGER. Its been on the top selling 100 list for 89 weeks now and still going strong. In fact a dvd just came out last week. A Harbinger is a warning to a nation from God. Ancient Israel had 9 of them in the book of Isaiah before the destruction of Jerusalem. this book shows how the exact same harbingers to the T happened to the USA during 9/11. It is so similar and precise its down right frightening and its all fact. Just as the Bible is. Archeology is proving that everyday on finds that coincide with scripture. Google it. You will see it for yourself.
    I would recommend studying and figuring it out very soon as we are in the last days before Christ’s return as the Bible prophesizes. If Israel signs a peace treaty by May of 2014 as the government says they will, look out. That will begin the 7 year tribulation as mentioned in Revelations before His return. This is a prophecy and if you don’t believe then, I don’t know what else anyone can say to open your eyes to truth. It also says the 3rd temple will be rebuilt. Architects have already begun to design the temple and plan construction on it immediately once the treaty is signed.

  12. I am sorry to hear that your grandfather, RIP, did not, apparently, think he was “human”! He claimed that “humans” seek purpose in everything and when they don’t find it, they make things up. Knowing that your grandfather really was a “human” should have led you to suspect that perhaps he was doing that very same thing – making things up. Out of despair, frustration and confusion, many people start to question everything, understandably, to make this life easier. Science is wonderful, but it doesn’t answer, and. I suspect never will, all the questions, such as: 1).Is everything in the universe intelligible? 2) Why something vs. nothing 3) Who (what) created or caused into creation this universe? Until ALL, and other, questions have been answered, can anyone proclaim what atheists, including your leader proclaim.

    • Who is the atheists’ leader and what is the proclamation you refer to?

      Scientific_Philosopher’s grandfather said:

      “We were not created by a deity. But we rather created the deity in our image for our own selfish purposes. Humans seek purpose in everything, and when they can’t find any, they just make it up. This in fact is related to the human mind, the human mind has problems handling abstract ideas, that cannot be explained by human reason at first. People are consumed by the fear of the unknown, the idea of being completely alone and that life must come to an end is for our mind somehow not acceptable. “

      Do you think that everyone who would agree with this statement must therefore believe themselves to be inhuman?

      Notice in that last sentence he said “…the idea of being completely alone and that life must come to an end is for our mind somehow not acceptable”. “To our mind” does seem to imply he accepted this fault in himself as human.

      In reply to #36 by MariaIsabella:

      I am sorry to hear that your grandfather, RIP, did not, apparently, think he was “human”! He claimed that “humans” seek purpose in everything and when they don’t find it, they make things up. Knowing that your grandfather really was a “human” should have led you to suspect that perhaps he was doing…

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