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Here’s a quote from Betrand Russell that adds a bit of scholarship to our “debate”, CC;

“Social cohesion is a necessity, and mankind has never yet succeeded in enforcing cohesion by merely rational arguments. Every community is exposed to two opposite dangers: ossification through too much discipline and reverence for tradition, on the one hand; on the other hand, dissolution, or subjection to foreign conquest, through the growth of individualism and personal independence that makes cooperation impossible”

I found this at the end of Haidt’s “The Righteous Mind”. The important lesson for me from this book is, the value of reasoned, rational thinking that grew out of the Enlightenment has never fulfilled its promise to create cohesive nations that base all their decisions on evidence. This can’t be blamed totally on the type of thinking that preceded it without arriving at a point where you are talking about human nature, knowing that we don’t fully understand what that is.